Nexen SB 802 rear tire

[Papa Fred]

I know there is a dedicated forum for darksiders, and if this is moved to that area, that's fine.  I went this route to get many eyes on this, specifically anyone who is currently running a  Nexen SB 802 165-80-15 on their RSV. 

Mine is a 2000 (Gen 2) and after what I thought was lots of research, I installed the above-mentioned tire.  There were a few on the forum who ran that particular tire so I knew "fit" wouldn't be an issue, and this past winter I found a rear wheel from an '05, complete w/ brake rotor and drive hub.  A visit to MANY tire shops in my city revealed that no-one had a comparable size tire to the Nexen, so I went to the internet and ordered the Nexen ($93 USD).  Tire arrived, found an independent guy who had no problem mounting it...aside from 110 psi to seat the bead...had him replace both wheel bearings and seals, and brought it home.  I swapped out my OEM wheel and existing tire (Metzeler ME 888) for the new wheel and Nexen, and went for a short test scoot yesterday then a 200+ mile ride today.

Observations:  The tire is rated for 1200 lbs @ 36 psi.  If that is indeed the maximum advisable pressure, I'm not sure if I'll keep it on the bike.  With 36 psi it does seem to provide a noticeably softer ride.  While I was expecting the handling to be drastically different, it turns out, for the most part, it has a fairly "neutral" feel.  The major issue I have, however is at low...parking lot...speed.  While turning, the bike is now a bit of a handful in that it feels to be "off balance", if that makes sense.  With an MC tire on the rear, I can do donuts and figure 8s all afternoon without grief.  With the Nexen, a simple effort to set up an approach to a parking spot is a challenge.  The best way I can describe it is any input feels similar to the shake in the bars if you give them a hard push when stopped.  You feel the bars, forks and tire give a little wobble.  Also, the bike is now really twitchy at hiway speeds and much more unhappy in cross-winds.

Thoughts:   I'm going to check the steering shaft bearing locknuts with respect to that twitchyness. With 36 psi in the tire, the sidewall, as expected, has a LOT of flex...therefore softer ride.  BUT...is that flex changing the feel that drastically?   Even though the Nexen has the same circumference as the MC tire, with the sidewall flex it has lowered the rear end by at least an inch.  This will likely mess with the steering geometry in ways I don't understand. The Metzelers (front and rear) have a much stiffer sidewall, and are a noticeably harder tire than my previous Avon Cobras, and in a round-about way...here's

The question:  for those who run Nexens...Can I run more than 36 psi? What did you notice in the overall feel of the bike with the Nexen.  Any other bits of experience with that tire?

I HAD been running 38 psi in the front tire, but my plan is to drop that a bit in steps and make note of the difference.  My hope is that a bit more air in the back and a bit less in the front might even things out a bit.  My original goal for switching to a CT, aside from the actual tire cost, was to improve the load-carrying potential on the rear tire since most of my riding is 2-up and occasional trips pulling a trailer.  The Nexen is rated for 1200 lbs @ 36 psi, the Metzeler is 992 @ 50 ( I was running 42), but even though the extra capacity is fine, the rideabilty has to be there too.

Thanks for any assistance and thoughts, gang.

Cheers...

[RDawson]

I’m running 42 front and rear. 

[Papa Fred]

I appreciate the reply, Ron...it prompted me to go back thru the Darksiders forum (yep...shuda done that first) and found a few ideas about air pressure.  Looks like my experiment with bumping up the rear pressure might be on track.

Thanks.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Fred,

Over the years, here at the shop we mounted quite a few "crazy" tires on motorcycles due to there being everything from dirt drags to street riding to ice racing. (I'm in Pennsylvania) I am assuming that this is a 4 ply steel belted radial tire, where your Metzeler tire is a bias ply tire and most likely has 6 plys. With your bike being 800 lbs. divided by two, basically you are looking at 400 lbs. on the rear tire. (feel free to add rider, passenger and gear, and redo the math) The point is, you are WAY below the weight rating for this tire. The method I used was to baby powder a piece of cardboard, (with the bike at a 90 degree angle to the card board) and roll the tire across the card board at the max pressure the tire was rated for. Then I would increase the tire pressure until 1/2 of the contact area of the FIRST inner and FIRST outer row of tread stopped making contact with the card board. This pressure became my baseline air pressure number, and I would adjust up or down to further fine tune the ride for comfort cornering and tread life.

The object of 1200 lbs. at 36 psi is to keep the tire from overheating under heavy load, so with the rear of your bike conservatively at half that weight I don't see an issue with over inflation. Not to mention the whole steel belts vrs. bias ply belts. I don't see an issue with air pressures in the mid to high 40's psi before you find the "sweet spot" for that tire fully loaded with rider, passenger, and gear. 

The other issue you mentioned was when you installed the new tire, and the rear being lower, (you removed weight from the front end of the bike) you noticed that the bike became harder to control. The two areas that will cause this issue are the steering head bearings, (either needing to be tightened, or replaced) and the bearings in the swingarm. (there is no adjustment, only replacement) Because our bikes have a Mono-Shock swingarm, it is very important that the contact point of the swingarm to the frame has NO play in it what so ever. Also the mounting bushing for the lower shock mount should be checked as well. You didn't mention the mileage on your bike Fred, but as the miles go up, the integrity of these parts becomes suspect.

I hope this helps, and I hope you enjoy your new tire!

Earl 

[saddlebum]

I would suspect that your turning issues may stem form the fact that the car tire has a flat foot print across its tread and is not designed to lean the way a motor cycle tire does. So when you attempt to do figure eights you are taking a tire designed to ride only in the upright position with a flat tread to ride up  on the outside corners of the the tread, were a MC tire is designed to be able to run on its outer tread surfaces when a bike is leaned over. The feel you get may be the result of conflict between you forcing the tire to run on its outer edge and the tire trying to maintain a flat foot print which would result in tire squirm, so there may in fact be nothing wrong with the bike itself. Also a car tire would have a heavier carcass which means balancing the tire is more critical and were we can get away with static balancing a MC tire, a car tire should be dynamically balanced. a good indicator is when you get a speed related vibration which usually creeps in as you approach a given speed peaks and then fades some as you surpass that speed. Finally since car tires generally run in pairs a single car tire may induce a type of tread wonder and could result in a tail wobble, as could an unevenly mounted tire. On commercial trucks we have often had to break down and remount a tire because the driver experienced a front end vibration from newly mounted tires.

Edited June 27, 2022 by saddlebum

[cowpuc]

Worked on a buddies Valkerie with a car tire on back. It was NOT rideable running "normal" car tire 32 psi. I just kept raising psi in car tire until it became rideable and raised it an extra 5 psi. ended up at 46 psi and rode like a bike tire. it was DANGEROUS at 32 psi!

[saddlebum]

The extra air pressure most likely helped due to fact that it forced the car tread to round out from a normally designed flat foot print. Which in fact is probably 14 psi above the tires designed max tire pressure range.

Edited June 27, 2022 by saddlebum

[cowpuc]

33 minutes ago, saddlebum said:

The extra air pressure most likely helped due to fact that it forced the car tread to round out from a normally designed flat foot print. Which in fact is probably 14 psi above the tires designed max tire pressure range.

the tires I have on my Hybrid car are cheapies from Walmart, Douglas tires that cost $42 instead of the OEM "Green" greenie tires that cost $175 each. I run those cheap Douglas tires at 45 psi instead of OEM spec of 36 psi to save on fuel and it works awesome with no sign of odd wear. The sidewall on the Douglas states 51 psi max (see pic). I cant imagine that $42 douglas tires have ANYTHING over any other car tire BUT I would check the sidewall for max psi 1st anyway when adjusting to regain control of the bike running dark side .. I know for fact the one I increased to regain control on my friends Valkarie was rated to 50 psi so it definitly was no where near above designed max. Please note @saddlebum,, car/bike factory spec for tire psi is NOT max psi on tires.  Also note folks, when checking/adjusting tire pressures do so with tire cold and do not worry about where the tire psi will rise to when hot.. Tire manufacture max psi's are designed with heat increase in mind, its normal and perfectly safe psi max and inflated to 50 psi when cold to go over 50 psi when hot. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR TIRE STAMP WHEN INFLATING THOUGH!  way it works. Puc  for a tire rated at 50

Edited June 27, 2022 by cowpuc

[Papa Fred]

Thanks Ben, Earl & Puc for the input.

Here's what I observed today with tire pressure adjustments.  I did a quick run with 42 psi in the rear (Nexen) and 36 psi in the front (Metzeler). It didn't feel too bad getting out to the hiway, but once up to speed...as in excess of 60 mph approaching 70...the bike was a handful.  It had a tendency to wobble, not a handlebar tankslapper kind of wobble, more like I was moving my butt on the seat side to side quickly which transmitted up to the bars...enough to really focus your attention.

A bit more info on the three tires:  Last month I pulled both wheels off and had one of the local bike shops install Metzeler ME 888 Marathon Ultras in the OEM sizes...150/80-16 fr, 150/90-B15 r.  Right off I noticed the Metzs' gave a bit stiffer ride and the bike was a bit more twitchy in general...not dangerous just quicker response to any inputs by me or externally (wind or road).  The tires seem to be constructed a bit stiffer than my previous Avon Cobras..again not bad just different.  The front Metz is a 4 ply with 3 polyester + 1 nylon belt in both tread and sidewall.  The rear has 3 polyester + 2 Polyamide belts in the tread and 3 polyester belts in the sidewall and feels quite stiff which , to me, allows for the high load ability.  The rear is rated for 992 lbs @ 50 psi, with the front at 761 lbs @ 42.  I was running them at 42 rear and 38 front.

The Nexen, as stated is rated for 1201 @ 36 psi, and being a radial, has built in shock absorbers in the sidewalls.  I'm going to explore running higher psi in the rear with a constant 38 psi in the front in an effort to find a pressure that will calm the bike down at higher speeds.  (Note here that most of my riding is at hiway speeds, generally between 60 - 65 mph.)  One thought that crossed my mind was that mixing a radial tire with a belted tire on a bike will give unusual handling.  I wonder if running the Nexen at much higher than rated psi is just making the tire harder to disguise the difference.  ??

With respect to the steering head bearings and swingarm... I haven't had the forks off to physically check or replace the bearings, but with the front end off the ground and the bars centered, a slight nudge will roll the bar left or right fairly easily to the limits and remain at that limit...no rebound or bounce.  Grabbing the front wheel and trying to lever the forks up and down didn't seem to produce any odd movement.  At the back end, when I had the wheels off for the tire replacement I removed the shock and the swingarm to check and re-grease the various bushings and bearings.  The swingarm bearings were in excellent shape...no pitting or grinding..so I cleaned, repacked and re-installed them.  Before removing the swingarm and with the shock removed I tried moving the swingarm side to side.  Zero movement laterally and free movement up & down.  Same result after installation.

I'm a bit hesitant to run that Nexen substantially over the 36 psi rating, but that might be simply my not understanding.   I was under the assumption that the manufacturer states the "whatever" pressure number on the sidewall as the maximum pressure that tire can be safely run at.  Having said that, many on this and other sites routinely run whatever pressure gives the desired results. 

While I haven't given up on this yet, I gotta say the early results are unsettling.  I'll continue to tweak the psi for a few days and continue to monitor the VR Gods (welcome back Puc).  The good news in all this is that I'm getting REALLY good at removing all the bags and rails to get at the tire.

 

Cheers...

[saddlebum]

Not only should radials and bias NEVER be run together on the same vehicle be it 4 wheel or two wheel because of the difference in tire roll and foot print, but in many places such as here in Ontario it is illegal. The only exception to that rule is a commercial vehicle were you may run radials on the steer axle and bias on the eight drive wheels.

@cowpucis correct when he states tire pressures should be checked when the tire is cold this has as much to do with consistency between tires as it it does with taking the expansion of air in the tire as it heats up into account. As a rule of thumb for every 10°F that a tire temperature increases it gains 1 PSI. This can vary slightly by driving conditions and initial tire pressure. An under inflated tire will heat up more than an overinflated tire due to increases flexing of the side wall which creates internal friction. This is why you often see tires that are run semi flat for too long blow out the side wall, which we call zippering.  When we do alignments or at least those of us that do not cut corners, the 1st thing we do is make sure the cold psi on all tires are set to spec.

NOTE A word of caution when inflating tires that have run flat for a long time there is the risk of what we call the zipper effect so if you ever reinflate a tire that has run flat for an extended time stay to one side. Over the years I have known of technicians that have been injured loosing a knee or even killed as a result of the zipper effect and have seen tires being inflated while laying on the ground become air born often injuring someone standing over the tire at the time.

[cowpuc]

10 hours ago, Papa Fred said:

Thanks Ben, Earl & Puc for the input.

Here's what I observed today with tire pressure adjustments.  I did a quick run with 42 psi in the rear (Nexen) and 36 psi in the front (Metzeler). It didn't feel too bad getting out to the hiway, but once up to speed...as in excess of 60 mph approaching 70...the bike was a handful.  It had a tendency to wobble, not a handlebar tankslapper kind of wobble, more like I was moving my butt on the seat side to side quickly which transmitted up to the bars...enough to really focus your attention.

A bit more info on the three tires:  Last month I pulled both wheels off and had one of the local bike shops install Metzeler ME 888 Marathon Ultras in the OEM sizes...150/80-16 fr, 150/90-B15 r.  Right off I noticed the Metzs' gave a bit stiffer ride and the bike was a bit more twitchy in general...not dangerous just quicker response to any inputs by me or externally (wind or road).  The tires seem to be constructed a bit stiffer than my previous Avon Cobras..again not bad just different.  The front Metz is a 4 ply with 3 polyester + 1 nylon belt in both tread and sidewall.  The rear has 3 polyester + 2 Polyamide belts in the tread and 3 polyester belts in the sidewall and feels quite stiff which , to me, allows for the high load ability.  The rear is rated for 992 lbs @ 50 psi, with the front at 761 lbs @ 42.  I was running them at 42 rear and 38 front.

The Nexen, as stated is rated for 1201 @ 36 psi, and being a radial, has built in shock absorbers in the sidewalls.  I'm going to explore running higher psi in the rear with a constant 38 psi in the front in an effort to find a pressure that will calm the bike down at higher speeds.  (Note here that most of my riding is at hiway speeds, generally between 60 - 65 mph.)  One thought that crossed my mind was that mixing a radial tire with a belted tire on a bike will give unusual handling.  I wonder if running the Nexen at much higher than rated psi is just making the tire harder to disguise the difference.  ??

With respect to the steering head bearings and swingarm... I haven't had the forks off to physically check or replace the bearings, but with the front end off the ground and the bars centered, a slight nudge will roll the bar left or right fairly easily to the limits and remain at that limit...no rebound or bounce.  Grabbing the front wheel and trying to lever the forks up and down didn't seem to produce any odd movement.  At the back end, when I had the wheels off for the tire replacement I removed the shock and the swingarm to check and re-grease the various bushings and bearings.  The swingarm bearings were in excellent shape...no pitting or grinding..so I cleaned, repacked and re-installed them.  Before removing the swingarm and with the shock removed I tried moving the swingarm side to side.  Zero movement laterally and free movement up & down.  Same result after installation.

I'm a bit hesitant to run that Nexen substantially over the 36 psi rating, but that might be simply my not understanding.   I was under the assumption that the manufacturer states the "whatever" pressure number on the sidewall as the maximum pressure that tire can be safely run at.  Having said that, many on this and other sites routinely run whatever pressure gives the desired results. 

While I haven't given up on this yet, I gotta say the early results are unsettling.  I'll continue to tweak the psi for a few days and continue to monitor the VR Gods (welcome back Puc).  The good news in all this is that I'm getting REALLY good at removing all the bags and rails to get at the tire.

 

Cheers...

@Papa Fred, thanks for the welcome back, its appreciated. If it were mine I would raise the bike and shake it down. Starting with spinning the wheels and looking closely at the little bead alignment line on the sidewalls of the tires. Its not uncommon for tire installers to not take the time to get that line spot on. This results in a slight wobble that can show up at higher speeds (sort of like an out of balance but more like a slipped belt feel). also watch the tires closely for belt slippage. I would also pull the wheels and check their balance for accuracy by doing just as I show in the vid below. A recheck on steer bearing torque would also not be a bad idea either, I still use the old zip tie on the bar ends and measure the weight it takes to make the bars move with a little scale (same thing I use to measure trigger pull on my shooters). I like to adjust my neck bearings to break at 5 - 7 pounds, if you do this you can usually tell if the bearings are notchy too because you will get a different reading from one side or the other. Its a REAL old school method used by us MXers from many many years ago BUT it still works great! I even did this on my R1 and it was rock solid even out to 176 mph. I would also double check and make sure I got the rear end buttoned up properly after having it apart to swap wheels. Making sure I followed protocol sequence when torquing the axel and such. Keep at it, you'll find it! Puc

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by cowpuc

[Papa Fred]

Hey guys, thanks for that input.  Regarding tire checks...one of the most important things I learned from nearly 25 years as a Long Haul owner/operator was the last line of defense keeping you out of the ditch, or someone else's grill, was the tires, and paying several thousand dollars for 10 new tires will (or should) motivate a person to learn how to use a tire pressure gauge and to use it often.  With the bike I check the tires before every ride before it moves out of the garage.  My problem with this experiment on the rear tire was that I completely ignored that one basic rule of tires...whatever you run be it bias, belted or radial, run them on all axles.  (with the exception as noted by Ben).  I got myself convinced that I should try something new, but (call me over-cautious if you like) I'm not comfortable running a tire at 10+ psi over what the max pressure states on the tire, put there by the people who made the tire.  Rather than spend a lot of time trying to get the CT do what I want, my next work on the bike will be to re-install my original wheel with the Metzeler.  The couple hundred extra lbs of load capacity of the CT isn't worth playing with, and since my wife depends on me to get us back from wherever we go, I'll get us there with the tire that makes me comfortable.

By the way Puc...thanks for that tip on testing the bar.  The simplicity of "Old School" is far too often overlooked. 👍

Thanks to all who weighed in on this adventure, again proving that the VR family is a good bunch to visit with.

 

Cheers...

[BratmanXj]

I've had similar experiences as you with running a CT on the back of the Venture.  I've been on Vulcans and Valkyries running CT rears that felt stable and planted, but so far my experiences with the Venture have been less than stellar.  I've previously had the Nexian 165/80-15 and assumed the squirrely handling was attributed to the tire being slightly taller than OEM and working against the 130 (narrower) front tire I have mounted.  I went up and down the pressure range with no real solution.  The bike was perfectly rideable up until 60-65mph where it became a handful wanting to wobble.  I was given a free BFG 155-80-15 and currently have it on the rear of my bike.  With the slightly less tall rear tire I'm stable up until about 75mph but with the same minor-wobble after that.  Again, tried the same up and down in pressure ranges and the bike just doesn't feel as stable as with a MC or as stable as the other bikes I've been on with CT.

I'll be replacing the rear soon and going back to my Shinko 230 Tourmaster.  I came, I tried, I did not like running a CT on the back of the Venture.  

[Papa Fred]

Just got back to my laptop and saw your post, Cj.  That squirrely feeling you mention is about the best way I could describe my experience with the CT, only I was getting that uneasy feeling at any speed, from parking lots to hiway.  The softer sidewall on the CT was introducing some squirming in the direction I thought I wanted to go, enough to have me make a few steering inputs at unwelcome times.  At high speed, the bike just felt twitchy.

A good friend of mine down the street is beginning his journey with a CT on his Goldwing.  So far he likes it, although besides the differences in our bikes,  he has a different make of CT on, he rides solo only and virtually all his miles are on the hiway.  Most of my riding is with my wife with about a 75/25 hiway/city split. 

I re-installed the Metzeler 888 I had on before the CT experiment, and went for a little 60 mile scoot.  The bike is back to being predictable, both at high speed and around town.  When I bend it into a corner, it tracks just where I point it....I'm not having to "work" the bike all the time.  The bottom line is Happy Papa....which means Happy Mama....which means Happy Papa.

Cheers....

[Marcarl]

Just wondering if the squirmeness may have something to do with rear tire alignment. If it isn't dead-on I would think the results may be as are described.

Loosen off the 4 acorn nuts on the pumpkin from the swing arm, loosen the axle bolt, shake it around some to make it all wiggle to reseat. Now snug up the axle, then tighten the acorns, then torque the axle. In that order.

[RDawson]

I wonder how much the set up affects it. I’m running a 150 front Shinko and the Nexen with leveling links raising the rear 1-1/4”.  I don’t feel any wobble until over 90mph. I don’t ride like that anymore anyway. It handles great everywhere from twisties to interstate. 

[saddlebum]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:13 AM, cowpuc said:

I still use the old zip tie on the bar ends and measure the weight it takes to make the bars move with a little scale (same thing I use to measure trigger pull on my shooters). I like to adjust my neck bearings to break at 5 - 7 pounds, if you do this you can usually tell if the bearings are notchy too because you will get a different reading from one side or the other. Its a REAL old school method used by us MXers from many many years ago BUT it still works great!

Old school it may be @cowpucbut not outdated. This method is still factory spec on some trucks, using kingpins that incorporate tapered kingpin bearings to adjust kingpin drag ( which by the way is not unlike the setup of our steering heads) and some still prefer using this method to set tapered wheel bearing rolling resistance versus using a torque wrench and setting a preload. In truth it is more accurate while the preload method using a torque wrench can be quicker and is more convenient.

[saddlebum]

21 hours ago, BratmanXj said:

I've had similar experiences as you with running a CT on the back of the Venture.  I've been on Vulcans and Valkyries running CT rears that felt stable and planted, but so far my experiences with the Venture have been less than stellar.  I've previously had the Nexian 165/80-15 and assumed the squirrely handling was attributed to the tire being slightly taller than OEM and working against the 130 (narrower) front tire I have mounted.  I went up and down the pressure range with no real solution.  The bike was perfectly rideable up until 60-65mph where it became a handful wanting to wobble.  I was given a free BFG 155-80-15 and currently have it on the rear of my bike.  With the slightly less tall rear tire I'm stable up until about 75mph but with the same minor-wobble after that.  Again, tried the same up and down in pressure ranges and the bike just doesn't feel as stable as with a MC or as stable as the other bikes I've been on with CT.

I'll be replacing the rear soon and going back to my Shinko 230 Tourmaster.  I came, I tried, I did not like running a CT on the back of the Venture.  

One should also keep in mind the different effects of a CT tire on different bikes may also have to do with the  rake/caster angle of the front forks. Because of this difference some bikes may be more accommodating to a CT tire than others.

[Papa Fred]

Thanks for the axle alignment suggestion, Carl.  I believe the axle is running fairly true because during the tire/wheel swap I took note of how the axle came out, and after the axle nut was removed but before starting to pull the axle I was able to rotate the axle very easily...nearly with just my fingers.  As I was removing the axle by slightly rotating it side to side, it remained loose until it pulled clear of the drive-side of the wheel.  A couple of years back when I installed the VMax rear end, I loosened the 4 acorn nuts, set the axle in the swingarm without the wheel, jiggled the whole thing until the axle turned freely, tightened the axle pinch bolt, snugged up the acorn nuts, released the pinch bolt and pulled the axle.  This past wheel removal, I didn't touch the acorn nuts, just pulled the axle.  It seemed to be where I had left it on the rearend swap.  If the alignment was in question, wouldn't that squirm be present in the MC tire as well?  I don't get any feeling of uncertainty at all with either the present Metz or the previous 2 Avon Cobras.

At the other end of the horse, I tried out Cowpuc's method of testing the front end.  I seem to remember reading somewhere on the VR site about a method of checking the front end by getting the front wheel up off the ground and bumping the bars right or left.  The goal was to have the bars swing freely to the limit without rebounding.  This may have been 3-ish years ago, and at the time I think the bars were pretty loose.  They would swing to the stops and bounce back easily.  I recall trying to tighten them up then, and maybe improved it but not enough.  When I checked them this time they seemed fairly loose based on the pull Puc suggested, but after loosening the 27mm nut, and working a flat screwdriver into those 2 locknuts on the steering shaft, I was only able to snug them up a small amount.  The "pull" on the bars is now a bit more than before....I can get about 3 lbs on my little luggage scale.... not quite the 5-7 lbs Puc had mentioned.  I'll be riding this afternoon and will take note of any change..good or otherwise.

Cheers....

[RDawson]

Have you checked the neck bearings themselves? Yamaha is known for very little grease there, after I replaced mine it rode like a new bike. 

[cowpuc]

5 hours ago, Papa Fred said:

Thanks for the axle alignment suggestion, Carl.  I believe the axle is running fairly true because during the tire/wheel swap I took note of how the axle came out, and after the axle nut was removed but before starting to pull the axle I was able to rotate the axle very easily...nearly with just my fingers.  As I was removing the axle by slightly rotating it side to side, it remained loose until it pulled clear of the drive-side of the wheel.  A couple of years back when I installed the VMax rear end, I loosened the 4 acorn nuts, set the axle in the swingarm without the wheel, jiggled the whole thing until the axle turned freely, tightened the axle pinch bolt, snugged up the acorn nuts, released the pinch bolt and pulled the axle.  This past wheel removal, I didn't touch the acorn nuts, just pulled the axle.  It seemed to be where I had left it on the rearend swap.  If the alignment was in question, wouldn't that squirm be present in the MC tire as well?  I don't get any feeling of uncertainty at all with either the present Metz or the previous 2 Avon Cobras.

At the other end of the horse, I tried out Cowpuc's method of testing the front end.  I seem to remember reading somewhere on the VR site about a method of checking the front end by getting the front wheel up off the ground and bumping the bars right or left.  The goal was to have the bars swing freely to the limit without rebounding.  This may have been 3-ish years ago, and at the time I think the bars were pretty loose.  They would swing to the stops and bounce back easily.  I recall trying to tighten them up then, and maybe improved it but not enough.  When I checked them this time they seemed fairly loose based on the pull Puc suggested, but after loosening the 27mm nut, and working a flat screwdriver into those 2 locknuts on the steering shaft, I was only able to snug them up a small amount.  The "pull" on the bars is now a bit more than before....I can get about 3 lbs on my little luggage scale.... not quite the 5-7 lbs Puc had mentioned.  I'll be riding this afternoon and will take note of any change..good or otherwise.

Cheers....

@Papa Fred, depending on where you took the reading from you may find out your good to go. Ride it and see how she does, just dont let go of the bars and go no handed yet, feel it out brother. 2 to 3 pounds taken at the forks may very well be fine, I always did mine from the bar tips and found 5 poundsish to work best. Also make sure when you take the readings that you have no cable drag or other snags. On the rear axle alignment. I think at one time Mom Yam used to make special shims for aligning the final drive at the swingarm. I also think at one time @skydoc_17 was offering shims for this.. Its been a while and lots of water has gone over the dam since I was spinning wrenches but it may be worth at least getting Earls thoughts on this. My oh my that was a LOT of thinking for a geezer! lol

[Marcarl]

8 hours ago, Papa Fred said:

Thanks for the axle alignment suggestion, Carl.  I believe the axle is running fairly true because during the tire/wheel swap I took note of how the axle came out, and after the axle nut was removed but before starting to pull the axle I was able to rotate the axle very easily...nearly with just my fingers.  As I was removing the axle by slightly rotating it side to side, it remained loose until it pulled clear of the drive-side of the wheel.  A couple of years back when I installed the VMax rear end, I loosened the 4 acorn nuts, set the axle in the swingarm without the wheel, jiggled the whole thing until the axle turned freely, tightened the axle pinch bolt, snugged up the acorn nuts, released the pinch bolt and pulled the axle.  This past wheel removal, I didn't touch the acorn nuts, just pulled the axle.  It seemed to be where I had left it on the rearend swap.  If the alignment was in question, wouldn't that squirm be present in the MC tire as well?  I don't get any feeling of uncertainty at all with either the present Metz or the previous 2 Avon Cobras.

At the other end of the horse, I tried out Cowpuc's method of testing the front end.  I seem to remember reading somewhere on the VR site about a method of checking the front end by getting the front wheel up off the ground and bumping the bars right or left.  The goal was to have the bars swing freely to the limit without rebounding.  This may have been 3-ish years ago, and at the time I think the bars were pretty loose.  They would swing to the stops and bounce back easily.  I recall trying to tighten them up then, and maybe improved it but not enough.  When I checked them this time they seemed fairly loose based on the pull Puc suggested, but after loosening the 27mm nut, and working a flat screwdriver into those 2 locknuts on the steering shaft, I was only able to snug them up a small amount.  The "pull" on the bars is now a bit more than before....I can get about 3 lbs on my little luggage scale.... not quite the 5-7 lbs Puc had mentioned.  I'll be riding this afternoon and will take note of any change..good or otherwise.

Cheers....

keep in mind that a MC tire has a whole lot less rubber on the road compared to a CT, so a small amount of things being out with a CT could have a great amount of input.

 

[Papa Fred]

All good points to worry...uh..think about.  I haven't pulled the forks apart to check the bearing condition, @RDawson.  My brain starts to hurt when I think about the steps involved in gutting the front end.  I've read a number of comments on progressive springs for the forks, and I should really consider those along with the new neck bearings.  My hesitation on taking that apart is probably a twin brother to my hesitation on pulling the carbs out for a re-build.  I've never had ANY carb apart, and the thought of screwing up four of them is frightening.  On the other hand we learn by doing, right?   This bike has taught me how to install a clutch, a stator, an electronic fuel pump and a new rear diff.  How hard could the forks be....😬

You're correct @cowpuc, I should pick Earl's brain on detailing that rear end.  In the meantime... GEEZERS  UNITE!!!👴

 

Cheers....

[cowpuc]

ROCK ON! GEEZERS UNITE!! PREACH IT BROTHER!! Stick with @Papa Fred, you WILL get it! Then its CTFW time, yeeee hawww! Puc

 

[BratmanXj]

8 hours ago, Papa Fred said:

All good points to worry...uh..think about.  I haven't pulled the forks apart to check the bearing condition, @RDawson.  My brain starts to hurt when I think about the steps involved in gutting the front end.  I've read a number of comments on progressive springs for the forks, and I should really consider those along with the new neck bearings.  My hesitation on taking that apart is probably a twin brother to my hesitation on pulling the carbs out for a re-build.  I've never had ANY carb apart, and the thought of screwing up four of them is frightening.  On the other hand we learn by doing, right?   This bike has taught me how to install a clutch, a stator, an electronic fuel pump and a new rear diff.  How hard could the forks be....😬

You're correct @cowpuc, I should pick Earl's brain on detailing that rear end.  In the meantime... GEEZERS  UNITE!!!👴

 

Cheers....

I've got 75k on my Venture.  Swing arm was taken apart, greases and reassembled.  I had the front end apart and installed Sonic springs and new steering head bearings at 55k miles.  I've gone down the final-drive alignment when the drive seals when out at 70k.  I have a Stratoliner 130-18" front wheel  and a Hagon rear shock. At this point I think I've got a pretty stable setup on the bike and it just doesn't respond well (or to my liking) of having a CT.