Front Brakes siezed at 60mph !!!

[84VentureMatt]

So cruising down the road at 60mph and suddenly no warning I am doing my first and hopefully last stoppie on a touring bike .. pucker factor of 10 for sure ....so I have have 2 calipers locked up and it got me thinking about that R6/R1 caliper swap and what odds an ends I need to do this also I will be doing away with the linked brake system front will be front rear will be rear ..speaking off is there a caliper swap for the rear .... Another thing is the rear shock it refuses to hold air inflate to 40psi 15 min its at 0 ... I have read about the progressive 465 -1114 shock or the 420 - 1014 shock but it looks as if neither are available anymore is there a aftermarket shock that anyone can recommend ....I have tried the soapy water method looking for leaks in the air ride / CASS system and no joy cannot find a leak anywhere complete mystery so loosing the air system is what I guess is the option  ..... Up until now the bike has been very enjoyable ...It really shows me a difference between 87 an 93 octane about a 20mpg per gallon difference ......I apologize for the tons of questions but I am new to these bikes or well at least new now having owned one about 20 years ago but never had any issues with that one .....oh i read this somewhere an it sparked my curiosity is it possible to mount the front forks and the driveline from a FJR 1300 to the Venture im guessing the steering stem an bearing races may need mods but would the swingarm rear wheel an such from the FJR bolt up??? ,,,,,Again very sorry for the barrage of questions but once I have the questions if I don't put it down I will forget them ......Thank Matt  

[SpencerPJ]

If the brakes are not delinked, it would be difficult for both fronts to lock up, they are separate master cylinders. Are you sure the front left and right rear did not lock up?  If that is the case, it is probably a blocked air return in the rear master cylinder, that happened to me on my 83. Other smarter ones will be along shortly.

[saddlebum]

Could use a bit more info on the brake issue. I am not sure if your saying they locked up or that they did not and you did not state if you were applying both foot and hand brake or just one or the other.

Edited January 2, 2022 by saddlebum

[RDawson]

I would also be looking at the bearings in that wheel. 

[Marcarl]

Yep,, on all that. Remember we are not mind readers and we cannot physically see your problem, we have only your words to go on and then we have to devise our own pictures.

[Pasta Burner]

8 hours ago, saddlebum said:

Could use a bit more info on the brake issue. I am not sure if your saying they locked up or that they did not and you did not state if you were applying both foot and hand brake or just one or the other.

I’m thinking he means he wasn’t intending to apply any brake.  As @SpencerPJ said though, if the brakes are still linked both front locking up doesn’t make sense to me.  
@84VentureMatt how did you get them to release? Did you ride it home?  As for brake upgrades R1/6 swaps and delink I’d recommend contacting @skydoc_17

Edited January 2, 2022 by Pasta Burner

[Marcarl]

1 minute ago, Pasta Burner said:

I’m thinking he means he wasn’t intending to apply any brake.

Maybe you is right, but what would cause a stoppy if he didn't squeeze the handle. Obviously the caliper ceased,, maybe or did it just run tight from getting too warm from too much drag,,,, That's why we need to know more maybe.

[84VentureMatt]

I apologize for lack  of clarity .....I was traveling at 60 mph when with no application of lever or brake pedal the front brake calipers locked ...by locked i mean they literally locked down on the rotor stopping the front wheel .....i had to remove the calipers from the bike to ride it home having only the rear caliper functioning barely .. ( Hazzard lights and low speed with engine braking mostly and lucky timing on red lights got me home safe )...no not Ideal but tow companies in my area do not have the best reputation for towing bikes so i did what i had to do ....removing the caliper was unbolting them and having to take a wood block an hammer and tapping till they finally came off the rotors ...YES left and right both seized up ... ( more confused about that than anything ) since I posted I contacted where I purchased the bike and they are going to give me the receipts for the complete brake job that was done before i purchased it ... the system is still linked ( serious questions about that ) ...but it stood up on the front wheel lifting the rear tire considerably off the ground ( i do not recommend 0 stars ) also once removed the calipers are frozen they will not move the rear caliper functions just lots of pedal travel ( i expected that ) but it had what i needed to get home ...again sorry for the sporadic nature of my post but this incident  is one that defies the possibility of happening it should not have at all .... no sign of drag on the brake system no lack of feel i had been riding the bike often nothing no tell tale signs of any issue perfectly normal operation but when they locked it was if someone grabbed an squeezed the brake to full stop yet i was not touching the lever or the pedal sooo I have no idea??? 

only solution i can see is replace the system rotors , calipers , master cylinder , lines , everything front an back .... I have heard of calipers dragging with age or master cylinders failing but never heard of a LOCK UP situation such as i just experienced  

[Marcarl]

So with that info I have some questions:

Was this your first ride on this machine?

How far had you traveled?

What was the outdoor temp at the time?

If you rode before did you go as far?

What kind of condition are the front rotors in, smooth, rough, gouged?

Any sign of 'grease' build up on the caliper seals? How much wear on the pads?

What colour is the brake fluid?

Answers to these questions will help to determine what happened maybe.

[BlueSky]

If the brakes aren't delinked, it's hard to imagine both front brakes locking up and not the rear.  Very DUMB question alert!  Could the reservoirs have been completely full?  If so pressure from heat could build up.  The master cylinders have a little hole that allows the fluid pressure to be relieved back to the master cylinder when the brakes are released.  Sometimes those holes get plugged.  It may be that the calipers just need to be rebuilt.

Edited January 3, 2022 by BlueSky

[larrydr]

A question I would ask  is  , did the cylinder linked to one of the front disks and applied by the foot brake release all the way  after it was applied ? .... 

[saddlebum]

On 1/2/2022 at 9:43 PM, 84VentureMatt said:

I apologize for lack  of clarity .....I was traveling at 60 mph when with no application of lever or brake pedal the front brake calipers locked ...by locked i mean they literally locked down on the rotor stopping the front wheel .....i had to remove the calipers from the bike to ride it home having only the rear caliper functioning barely .. ( Hazzard lights and low speed with engine braking mostly and lucky timing on red lights got me home safe )...no not Ideal but tow companies in my area do not have the best reputation for towing bikes so i did what i had to do ....removing the caliper was unbolting them and having to take a wood block an hammer and tapping till they finally came off the rotors ...YES left and right both seized up ... ( more confused about that than anything ) since I posted I contacted where I purchased the bike and they are going to give me the receipts for the complete brake job that was done before i purchased it ... the system is still linked ( serious questions about that ) ...but it stood up on the front wheel lifting the rear tire considerably off the ground ( i do not recommend 0 stars ) also once removed the calipers are frozen they will not move the rear caliper functions just lots of pedal travel ( i expected that ) but it had what i needed to get home ...again sorry for the sporadic nature of my post but this incident  is one that defies the possibility of happening it should not have at all .... no sign of drag on the brake system no lack of feel i had been riding the bike often nothing no tell tale signs of any issue perfectly normal operation but when they locked it was if someone grabbed an squeezed the brake to full stop yet i was not touching the lever or the pedal sooo I have no idea??? 

only solution i can see is replace the system rotors , calipers , master cylinder , lines , everything front an back .... I have heard of calipers dragging with age or master cylinders failing but never heard of a LOCK UP situation such as i just experienced  

Based on what your saying I would say after applying the brakes a few times they did not release properly due to blocked return passage add to that calipers which may already be pretty much seized.  As a result the added friction likely causing rotors and pads to overheat. Combining several factors hot expanding rotors overheating metallic pads and even the fluid if it gets hot enough could expand all contributing to a lock up situation. I have even seen Metalic pads get hot enough to actually partially weld them selves to the rotors. Signs of this may show on the rotors themselves as rough or blue spots.

[84VentureMatt]

@saddlebum there are blued areas on the rotors ...whats crazy is there was no brake smell well i guess at my speed  would not have smelled them ...at least the rear was fine an worked well enough i could ride home .. currently looking for the R6/R1 calipers a MKII either full front end or at least the lower legs just finding what i need to get my Venture back into the wind 

[84VentureMatt]

On 1/3/2022 at 8:33 AM, Marcarl said:

So with that info I have some questions:

Was this your first ride on this machine?

How far had you traveled?

What was the outdoor temp at the time?

If you rode before did you go as far?

What kind of condition are the front rotors in, smooth, rough, gouged?

Any sign of 'grease' build up on the caliper seals? How much wear on the pads?

What colour is the brake fluid?

Answers to these questions will help to determine what happened maybe.

I bought the bike an have been riding it put about a 1,000 miles on it since purchase the temp was 70 degree my average ride is just relaxing is about 150 miles the entire brake system was done just before i bought the bike at a shop I have receipts for  full flush brand new fluid an pads rotors looked great of course now there is blueing from the heat of seizing .... the dealer I bought it from is having me bring the components to him he wants his techs to inspect an check them ( his shop is not the shop that serviced it ) the previous owner took it to a multi brand dealership who evidently has a history of having older bikes have failure after being in their shop ( not putting names out there without 100% positive proof of shotty service ) but i am hearing from a few people they would never return after bad experiences ....so hopefully the dealer figures something out but currently searching out the items needed to do the R1/R6 brake swap an delinked front an rear i know i need the MKII forks or at least lower fork legs ...i really enjoy the bike an seeing it has extremely low miles i should get years of good riding out of it  ... just glad there is a community full of knowledge i can ask questions an learn from

[Marcarl]

Bluing indicates overheating, probably caused by calipers that didn't retract well enough, so they created excessive heat which would snug things up even more and so cause a hard braking issue. I think you experienced that. Same as has been mentioned but now confirmed y your description. I would still be interested in the present color of the brake fluid and what things look like in the master cylinder. That will tell you if the fluids were properly changed. As far as a complete brake service being done, I would bet a dollar (CDN) to a doughnut (Timmies) that the calipers were not serviced. hence they  ceased up. Crappy work from my perspective.

[BlueSky]

The 86 and up have much better front brakes with 4 pistons per caliper.  The R1 brakes don't fit quite the same.