Heart Issues and Vitamin K2

[BlueSky]

I started feeling pressure in my chest when I went on my 50 minute rapid walks around the subdivision and it slowly got worse.  I had tried statins but the side effects were unacceptable.  Two years ago, I was told that two of my heart arteries were 85% plugged and the 3rd was 65% plugged.  And they were plugged almost evenly all the way down to the capillaries what they normally see in diabetic patients. My heart's pumping efficiency was normal.  The heart muscles were just not getting enough blood flow.  Bypass operations were probably useless and they inserted 3 stents which may have helped a little.  Anyway, I got serious about taking statins and took rosuvastatin even though it made my arthritis worse.  Now it is 2 years later and I was about the same.  6 weeks ago I started taking Vitamin K2 which is supposed to help prevent and maybe reduce the buildup in arteries.  After about 2 weeks, I noticed that I can be more active before I start feeling angina.  It's a very noticeable difference.  The brand I'm taking is "Doctors Best".  I don't know if that is the best brand but it seems to be working for me.   I felt that this is important enough to share with my friends on venturerider.   It's giving me some hope of living a more normal life.  I'm 77 if you don't know.  

I remember from years ago that Suzanne Somers said that if you take Vitamin K2 you will never have hardening of the arteries.  She got breast cancer years ago and did a  lot of research into supplements and health remedies.  I think she even wrote a book on the subject.  She is 75 now and her husband is 82 and she claims they have sex all the time with the help of hormones.  

Edited December 19, 2021 by BlueSky
corrected name brand of Vitamin K2

[dknelson]

Thanks for the information.  I'm going to do some research on it but sounds like a good preventative measure.  

[larrydr]

I had a heart attack in the spring of  2019 ... My Doctor put me on a drug called Ramipril , did some good but it had terrible side affects , dizzy spells with fainting  ...I decided to try several Vitamins and drinking a cup of green tea every day ...after about a month my cholesterol level dropped more than 1 point and my blood pressure leveled to the high side of normal  ..I after being on a drug called Dilantin , since 1978 .. Doctors have found that there is a chance of a severe  drug interaction between drugs you are on now and any new drugs being added ...It near cost me my life , because the doctor did not check to see if there are any interactions ...Not everyone can take the meds that are often prescribed ..Not everyones body reacts to a med the same way someone else does

[saddlebum]

I take both rosuvastatin and ramipril. I have had no side effects from either as far as I know, though I do know that certain types of statins have produced muscle pain in some people. One statin in particular was notorious for this.  I take both before bed rather than in the morning. Apparently statins which are meant to control cholesterol work best while your sleeping. I take the Ramipril at night because the pharmacist advised that it has a tendency to cause dizziness so its best to take before bed rather than in the AM. Vitamin K2 and food  products such Kale which produce a lot of K2 helps the body produce more blood platelets which in most cases is great. However if you are on a platelet reducing medicine such as Clopidogrel You should not take it because it defeats the purpose of taking the drug. Also not a good idea if you are prone to blood clotting and should be avoided for at least a year if you recently had any stents inserted.

Edited December 20, 2021 by saddlebum

[BlueSky]

K1 and K2 have somewhat different effects.  

[BlueSky]

One med my Cardiologist prescribed that I decided to stop taking is Metoprolol ER Succinate.  He said it would cause my heart to be more efficient.  It dropped my resting pulse from 60 to 50 and lowered my blood pressure.  It also sapped my energy and made me feel like crap.  After taking it for quite a while, I decided to stop taking it and felt much better with no increase in angina.  And he prescribed Isosorbide Mononitrate to be taken once daily.  The side effects made me fell like crap.  So, I split the pill into half and took a half pill twice daily.  I tried this for quite a while and then I decided to quit taking it too. The side effects were terrible and if it helped, I couldn't tell.  I do have to take more other bp meds to control my bp now but I feel much better.  I'm taking Losartan at night which has very little effect and in the mornings if my bp is above 135/xx I take Triam/HCTZ which is a diuretic.  Besides those I'm taking my vitamins and supplements and I'm taking 20mg of rosuvastatin for cholesterol control and now the Vitamin K2 for my heart.   Use your own judgement as to what it right for you.  Everyone is a little different and the doctors don't know everything about everybody.   

Edited December 20, 2021 by BlueSky

[circa1968]

15 hours ago, saddlebum said:

Vitamin K2 and food  products such Kale which produce a lot of K2 helps the body produce more blood platelets which in most cases is great. .

I started growing sweet kale in my garden a couple years ago on a whim.  Had never eaten it before then and was surprised how good it tastes.  I now regularly have kale salads with hemp seeds (superfood source of omega3/6 fatty acids) and a raspberry vinagrette to top it off.  

If I could just overcome the temptations of Oreos and ice cream, I'd probably be superman.  LOL.

[BlueSky]

From WebMd

Foods With Vitamin K2

Vitamin K is in many foods, but on average, most of what we consume is the K1 form found in plants. These eight vitamin K2-rich foods can help you achieve a better balance in your diet.

1. Natto

Natto is a Japanese dish made from fermented soybeans. It’s high in many nutrients that promote good gut health and is the richest source of vitamin K2 available. it contains between 800-1000 mcg per 100 grams of vitamin K2 (menaquinone).. A 100-gram serving contains 108 micrograms of vitamin K2, more than twice the recommended intake.

2. Eel

Though most vitamin K2 sources are animal-based, eel offers a seafood alternative. There are 63 micrograms in a 100-gram serving of eel, meeting your recommended level for the day.

3. Cheese

Cheeses are one of the best sources of vitamin K2 along with nutrients like calcium, vitamin A, and protein. However, they’re also high in saturated fats and calories, so you should moderate your portions. Vitamin K2 content varies based on the cheese, and it increases with age across all types. Common cheeses with the highest amount of vitamin K2 per 50-gram serving include:

 

• 50 micrograms in Munster
• 34 micrograms in Camembert
• About 32 micrograms in Edam and aged Gouda
• 12 micrograms in cheddar

4. Beef Liver

Beef liver is one of the most nutritious meat products you can eat, containing your entire daily requirement for nutrients like vitamin A, riboflavin, folate, and copper. A 100-gram serving also has more than 11 micrograms of vitamin K2, making it the best meat-based source of the vitamin.

5. Chicken

If you’re not a fan of organ meats like liver, turn to chicken for your vitamin K2. With 10 micrograms per 100-gram serving, chicken has five to 10 times the vitamin K2 content of beef or pork.

6. Butter

Just a tablespoon of butter has 2.1 micrograms of vitamin K2. However, that same tablespoon contains about 100 calories and 11 grams of fat, so make sure to keep your servings small to avoid potential health risks and unwanted weight gain.

7. Sauerkraut

Sauerkraut is fermented cabbage with a distinctive sour flavor. Like with natto, this fermentation process offers many health benefits, like promoting good gut health and boosting immunity. With 2.75 micrograms per half-cup, sauerkraut is also a great source of vitamin K2.

 

8. Egg Yolk

An egg yolk can contain between 67 and 192 micrograms of vitamin K2. This amount depends on what the hen eats, however. Most chicken feed today is fortified with vitamin K, and this content passes onto the egg. But chickens fed corn or soy-based diets are more at risk of vitamin K deficiencies.

[saddlebum]

12 hours ago, circa1968 said:

I started growing sweet kale in my garden a couple years ago on a whim.  Had never eaten it before then and was surprised how good it tastes.  I now regularly have kale salads with hemp seeds (superfood source of omega3/6 fatty acids) and a raspberry vinagrette to top it off.  

If I could just overcome the temptations of Oreos and ice cream, I'd probably be superman.  LOL.

Try taking  the kale out of the garden the day before you intend to eat it and put it in the freezer over night before cooking it. Back in the sixties and most of the seventies when it stayed frozen all winter we left the kale in the garden all winter and only picked enough for dinner.

Also try this. Peel and quarter some patatoes place in a pot and cover with water. Place a bed of kale on top oft the potatoes and some smoked pork or pork and beef sausages on top of the kale and cover. Once the patatoes are  done, remove the sausages and mash the potatoes and kale together. Serve on a plate and mix in some viniger and raw diced onions. You will love it.

Edited December 21, 2021 by saddlebum

[Marcarl]

6 hours ago, saddlebum said:

Try taking  the kale out of the garden the day before you intend to eat it and put it in the freezer over night before cooking it. Back in the sixties and most of the seventies when it stayed frozen all winter we left the kale in the garden all winter and only picked enough for dinner.

Also try this. Peel and quarter some patatoes place in a pot and cover with water. Place a bed of kale on top oft the potatoes and some smoked pork or pork and beef sausages on top of the kale and cover. Once the patatoes are  done, remove the sausages and mash the potatoes and kale together. Serve on a plate and mix in some viniger and raw diced onions. You will love it.

Best with a ham hock, skip the onions (I love onions) add some VPH (Maggi),, called Stamppot.

[saddlebum]

1 hour ago, Marcarl said:

Best with a ham hock, skip the onions (I love onions) add some VPH (Maggi),, called Stamppot.

Knew you would get in on this one. Notice how I conveniently left out the name of this dish to give you an opening. If its one thing us dutch folks like as much as stretching copper penny's as though we were making copper wire. Its Stamppot.

Edited December 21, 2021 by saddlebum

[Marcarl]

Yaaaaahhhhh,,, you just didn't know how to spell it in English,,,,,, let alone Dutch.

No matter, I'll be there when you need help,, as always.

[bpate4home]

Even when I was a kid (16 - 17) I test with high Cholesterol. In the 300+ range as a total number. BP has never been a problem. Told the Dr what I was eating and he said to eliminate the eggs and to stop eating red meat. If I did eat red meat to cut off all the fat. Eat more poultry.  I did this for 10 years or so and my Cholesterol level barely went below 300 in that time. I was working crazy hours in my late 20's running my own IT business 75+ hours. I stopped all of the 'special' diet stuff. Started eating eggs again and when my family started the whole egg white thing I would eat their yolks. I felt great at that time.

In my late 30's I started to travel about 60 - 70% of my time for work.  I packed on the lbs. Went from ~210 up to 285.  This was my own fault, Restaurant portions were ridiculously large but I had this internal guilt of not finishing my food. I got this from when I was a kid as there were times when we didn't know if we would have food the next day. I worked hard to change this mentality the last year or so and am back to 230 and still working to drop more. the biggest item for me has been portion control not limiting the variety or types of food I eat but the quantity I eat. This is still hard when I travel as Keeping food in a hotel is not the easiest thing. I just box up the left overs. even when traveling. I actually find myself giving the food away to homeless more often than not. Win win. 

One thing I haven't changed though is I still eat eggs frequently and I eat red meat including the fat. Last year I had my 1st Cholesterol test in ages.  It was ~280 but the Dr said I had nearly a 3.5:1 ratio of good vs bad Cholesterol which is a good thing. I didn't know the difference but as he described it the HDL levels are the grease that helps the body run well. He said the fat of beef and pork at actually contributing factors to HDL and the medical community only began to realize this in the last 15 years or so. He said the HDL works like grease in the blood system to help prevent blockage and clotting of the arteries.  He's the one who told me to keep doing what I was doing. I'm also a big fan of open grazed beef. I go in every year with a buddy and we buy a steer or heifer. He is afraid of organ meat so I always keep the liver and the heart for myself. Love liver and onions. We will keep doing this too.  We just took 'T-Bone' to the butcher as our freezer is a little low. 

On the other stuff: I like sauerkraut but haven't had it in years. I avoid margarine and stick to pure butters when at all possible. I always get eel when I go out for sushi. I eat a lot of cheeses and yes I still eat a lot of poultry. I never knew anything about K2 until I read this. It's something to keep in mind now that I'm getting older. 

[BlueSky]

One of John Stossel's shows years ago he talked about cholesterol and he said that for buildup to occur you had to have high blood pressure as well as high cholesterol.  The high bp damages the vessels in spots and the buildup in the arteries happens at the damaged part.  I don't know.  I'm sure there's more to the story.  In my case my heart arteries have buildup almost evenly through the entire length including the capillaries so there is something else going on.  My cholesterol has almost always been just over 200 total but my ratio of HDL/LDL hasn't been in the desired range.  The highest it has ever been is 238 and the lowest I remember is 188 when I was walking a lot.  I used to be 6' tall but I've shrunk a couple inches in my old age I guess due to collapsing back discs.  And I'm built like a football lineman with a weight of 260 at my heaviest and now at 225.  I have exercised periodically all my life, tennis, jogging, walking, weigh lifting, as well as pushups, sit-ups, squats, arm curls and pullovers on my Total Gym.  The last 5 are what I do now.  Walking a lot has been impossible due to my severe arthritic hip.  Getting old sucks!  Thinking about a hip joint replacement.  Based on my limited experience and knowledge, I highly recommend taking Vitamin K2 supplements whether or not you know you have clogged arteries.  

[circa1968]

In my early 40's, my Dr told me my HDL was low, too low, below 40.  Due to genetics, I've always had a lean/slim build and my Dr told me I was at just as much risk of heart disease as someone who was overweight.  Blew my mind.  That's when I became more serious and dedicated to exercise because that's what my dr told me was the best way to increase it.

My last cholesterol test was Nov of 2019 and I came it at 49 for my HDL and 71 LDL.  I've known a couple of guys in their early 40's, like me that were slim/lean and dropped dead of heart attacks unexpectedly.  Perhaps I was on that same course had I not gotten my cholesterol checked.   Glad I did.  Glad I found out and thankful for the advice my Dr. gave me to exercise more.

I also started doing intermittent fasting a couple of years ago.  Fad or Fantastic?  All I can say is try it and decide for yourself.   I think its fantastic and its not a weight loss thing for me, just the overall body/mind health benefits that I experience from it.

 

[BlueSky]

As a followup, I have noticed my blood pressure is higher than before and I'm having to take Triam/HCTZ more often now to keep it down.  I suspect the Vitamin K2 is the reason.  Or it could be that I am now taking 4 ibuprofens every day now instead of 2 for my arthritis that is made worse by the statin drug.  I started taking 2 more ibuprofens at the same time I started taking Vitamin K2.  However, in normal daily activity, I rarely feel any angina now.  I plan to keep taking the K2 for sure.  And I'm halving the statin drug intake.  I'll see how it goes. 

[saddlebum]

6 hours ago, BlueSky said:

As a followup, I have noticed my blood pressure is higher than before and I'm having to take Triam/HCTZ more often now to keep it down.  I suspect the Vitamin K2 is the reason.  Or it could be that I am now taking 4 ibuprofens every day now instead of 2 for my arthritis that is made worse by the statin drug.  I started taking 2 more ibuprofens at the same time I started taking Vitamin K2.  However, in normal daily activity, I rarely feel any angina now.  I plan to keep taking the K2 for sure.  And I'm halving the statin drug intake.  I'll see how it goes. 

If you have clogging of the arteries I would not cut back on the statin drug but would back off on the K2. If the statin is giving you muscle pain see your DR for a different type of Statin. Both my brothers had to do this and they are now fine. K2 increases platelets in the blood stream which I said before for some people specially if the have thin blood is a good thing. But too many platelets can causing clotting specially if you already have restricted arteries. This is why clodidogrel is often prescribed for the 1st year or 2 to stent patients to reduce platelets and prevent clotting of the stent. Clotting can also drive up your blood pressure another reason to be careful when taking K2.

[BlueSky]

Yes, vitamin K1 and K2 will help clotting of the blood.  But K2 in particular seems to help the body use calcium for the bones and prevent clogging of the arteries.  The below info is part of one of the articles on the web.   Judging from the effect it had on me, I will continue to take Vitamin K2 MK7.  And the increase in blood pressure could have also been from over eating during the holidays.  Past time to crack down on the over eating.

 

Vitamin K and Heart Health

In addition to blood clotting and bone health, vitamin K also seems to play an important role in preventing heart disease.

Vitamin K activates a protein that helps prevent calcium from depositing in your arteries. These calcium deposits contribute to the development of plaque, so it’s not surprising that they are a strong predictor of heart disease (16Trusted Source, 17Trusted Source).

Several observational studies have suggested that vitamin K2 is better than K1 at reducing these calcium deposits and lowering your risk of heart disease (18Trusted Source, 19Trusted Source, 20Trusted Source).

However, higher quality controlled studies have shown that both vitamin K1 and vitamin K2 (specifically MK-7) supplements improve various measures of heart health (16Trusted Source, 21Trusted Source).

Nevertheless, further studies are needed to prove that supplementing with vitamin K actually causes these improvements in heart health. Additionally, more research is needed to determine if K2 is truly better for heart health than K1.

[saddlebum]

I have come to the conclusion I need not worry about my diet. I will most likely die of brain strain from trying to keep up with all the pro's and con's, do's and don't s in the never ending quest of doing the right thing only to find out it is now the wrong thing and then back to the right thing to try and stay healthy.

Edited December 31, 2021 by saddlebum

[BlueSky]

Yep, eggs were bad.  Now they are good.  Butter was bad.  Now we know the fake butter is worse for you than real butter.  Animal fat was terrible.  Now they are saying well, it's not as bad as we thought.  You need to eat some animal fat.  Probably the only thing you can believe is that refined sugar in all its forms is definitely bad for you.  And being grossly overweight is definitely bad for you. 

[BlueSky]

A little up date on my condition.

I did continue to take 20mg of rosuvastatin.  The Dr prescribed 40mg.  The vitamin K2 still seems to be working as I can be much more active without feeling angina.  However, I just had my annual blood test performed.  My cholesterol is 108.  Supposedly the normal range starts at 120.  So, I think 10mg daily may be best.  Another interesting thing on my blood test is that my red blood cell count is too low along with hemoglobin.  I checked last years results and it was at the low end of the scale.  Never been low before. A little research revealed that the covid shots will reduce the red blood cell count.  I took both of the first Pfizer shots a month or more before last years lab test and I had the booster last November.  A little more research revealed that Vitamin B12 increases red blood cells  so I started taking that today.  No more booster shots for me.  If you don't know a low red blood cell count will sap your energy and an old fart like me needs all the energy I can get!  Ha!  

[saddlebum]

Thanks for the update. Good food for thought. BTW I was told by doctor as long your cholesterol remains below a certain number plague build up will slowly begin to reverse.

Edited March 6, 2022 by saddlebum

[larrydr]

I was diagnosed with a heart problem ( heart attack in 2019 ).. The  cardiac specialist had a pacemaker installed in 2021  and after all the testing time spent in hospital they found out that my heart is good ...What caused all the problem was a prescription medication prescribed by a doctor ...I have been on medication since a head injury in 1978 and the medication that were being prescribed  now were causing were causing a major interaction with the long time medication  ... It got seriously bad causing blackouts ...I stopped all medications for 4 days and my heart slowed to a safe rate and my blood pressure came down to safe rate ...I am perfectly fine now , they are may remove the pacemaker ...in May 2022 ...All Doctors should check with the pharmacist  on interactions of all medications before prescribing any more medications .. Because some medications can kill

[BlueSky]

And research all of your meds for side effects and drug interactions.  Doctors spend very little time with each patient and the bottom line is that we have to get involved with our health decisions.  I quit taking both of the heart medications the cardiologist prescribed because they were causing more harm than good in my opinion and my opinion is the only one that counts with me.  I'll listen and I will try what they say.  But if the meds they prescribe appears to be making things worse, I don't take it.  

[BlueSky]

4 hours ago, saddlebum said:

Thanks for the update. Good for for thought. BTW I was told by doctor as long your cholesterol remains below a certain number plague build up will slowly begin to reverse.

I read about and hear about supplements or diets that will reverse artery blockage but my cardiologist says nothing will reverse it.  But, I am a believer in Vitamin K2 and the doc didn't mention it.