Why Wear A Mask

[RDawson]

I’ve looked at a lot of numbers, the one that really sticks out to me is the 1.4% mortality rate. Most with other underlying conditions. And yes I have had some friends die from it, going to a funeral tomorrow. I have a big problem with government taking rights away, in history once that starts it seems to snowball. That being said I am vaccinated but won’t tell anyone else what to do. 

[bpate4home]

4 hours ago, Du-Rron said:

The CDC, WHO, and 100% of the doctors I have talked to in person. (San Angelo TX is rated as "Severe" in terms of Covid cases and our hospital is out of beds).  In Las Vegas odds there is no reason not to get a Vaccination.  The middle ground here is that you can get a Covid Vaccination and still worry/fret/try to solve the other World Problems at hand.

Wearing a mask diffuses direct air/cough and lowers the effective target range of Covid.  

Here is what is happening in San Angelo right now.  You can change the link to find out about your city.

https://covidactnow.org/us/metro/san-angelo_tx/

Here is a video made 8-21-21 of our San Angelo Hospital Doctors saying they are worn out, that kids are getting Covid, and asking folks to get their vaccination.

https://www.facebook.com/ShannonMedicalCenter/videos/1582222058784000

As I stated above I've spent way too much time in Hospitals the last 2 years. The hospitals I was at with my son stated they were out of beds but even in the ICU floor I saw whole sections with the lights out. I've seen entire floors shut off. Send the patients to other Hospitals that have Room.  I've talked to nurses that say this is not happening because the Hospitals would not get the $$$ for treating a COVID patient. I don't buy the whole we don't have room stuff.

[saddlebum]

10 hours ago, RDawson said:

I’ve looked at a lot of numbers, the one that really sticks out to me is the 1.4% mortality rate. Most with other underlying conditions. And yes I have had some friends die from it, going to a funeral tomorrow. I have a big problem with government taking rights away, in history once that starts it seems to snowball. That being said I am vaccinated but won’t tell anyone else what to do. 

I myself am not a big fan of government interference  but sometimes government is left with little choice and if they did not take the steps to ensure things like covid were properly dealt with, who would. For example how safe would our streets be if there were no rules and just anybody could go out buy and drive a car, any old way they felt like it. After all is not their against their constitutional rights to force them to follow any type of traffic law? If anybody could just go out and beat on another person just because they feel like it ( though I must admit there are times when I wish I could ). If anybody could just kick you off your property and take it just because they can (although there are times when big developers seem to be able to do just that ). That's why we elect governments in hopes that they will maintain a semblance of order and unity. (though some times I feel they do take upon themselves more authority then they should be allowed to and other times they do nothing when they should do something.

OK so now I hope I confused you all as much as I just confused myself .....But then I guess that's politics......

Edited August 28, 2021 by saddlebum

[Marcarl]

I wonder what the mortality rate would be if this virus had raised it's head 100 or 200 years ago. It would only be speculation, but I'm sure that 1.4% would be way out of wack. Our health care is much advanced to what is was back then and the availability is much much better, so doing a comparison is quite skewed.

Fact is, there are lots of people dying pre-mature, others are sick and slow to recover, some others don't recover at all. We have something (vaccine) that can help to reverse the trend or maybe to eliminate (doubtful), it cost hardly nothing so why not give it a shot. We did, hoping we did the right thing, so far so good, and if we didn't then we cross the river into glory a little sooner or later than expected. I just don't like being sick either.

As far as government spending is concerned and worrying about it? I gave that up. Our countries are so far in debt now we will never get out of that, so spending or what it is spent on I don't think it would make any difference. My thoughts are more along the line of who are we borrowing from? who is collecting the interest? Maybe somebody can answer  that?

[Du-Rron]

@RDawson in the video I supplied above the doctors also talk about their nursing shortage in Texas.  In the video it also states that the State Money has dried up.  Gov Abbot has requested an additional 2500 nurses as of 8-12-21.

There may be a bed there, but no nurses.  The wait time in the San Angelo Shannon Emergency Room is about 10 hours now before even being seen.

This is what is going on right now.

https://abc13.com/covid-delta-variant-surge-nurses/10946087/

 

 

[saddlebum]

2 hours ago, Marcarl said:

I wonder what the mortality rate would be if this virus had raised it's head 100 or 200 years ago.

JMHO but i'm thinking we may not be having this discussion and we might be on the extinct list of some other life forms research so they get to do all the debating instead of us.

[saddlebum]

1 hour ago, Du-Rron said:

@RDawson in the video I supplied above the doctors also talk about their nursing shortage in Texas.  In the video it also states that the State Money has dried up.  Gov Abbot has requested an additional 2500 nurses as of 8-12-21.

There may be a bed there, but no nurses.  The wait time in the San Angelo Shannon Emergency Room is about 10 hours now before even being seen.

This is what is going on right now.

https://abc13.com/covid-delta-variant-surge-nurses/10946087/

 

 

Trouble is governments never save for rainy days they just spend spend spend until there is nothing left for emergencies. It specially irks me when that spending is applied to some useless oversize trinket they refer to as art and it costs tax payers in the millions.

[bpate4home]

5 hours ago, Du-Rron said:

@RDawson in the video I supplied above the doctors also talk about their nursing shortage in Texas.  In the video it also states that the State Money has dried up.  Gov Abbot has requested an additional 2500 nurses as of 8-12-21.

There may be a bed there, but no nurses.  The wait time in the San Angelo Shannon Emergency Room is about 10 hours now before even being seen.

This is what is going on right now.

https://abc13.com/covid-delta-variant-surge-nurses/10946087/

As a kid I broke my arm and spent 13 + hours in an emergency room before seeing anyone. When my son had to go to the ER after cracking his head wrecking his bicycle - 9 hours. This has never changed - at least for me.  

[bpate4home]

4 hours ago, saddlebum said:

JMHO but i'm thinking we may not be having this discussion and we might be on the extinct list of some other life forms research so they get to do all the debating instead of us.

Maybe true but looking at the age segments in the beginning of this the percentages followed the average ages of other deaths in the previous 10 years.  Also, this is survival of the fittest. 94% of those that die from COVID have underlying health issues.  These items have only changed slightly.  The biggest concern that keeps getting pounded by the media is the asymptomatic carriers.  I believe that is what most would have been 200 years ago.  

moot, point anyway as this virus is man made.

 

[Du-Rron]

@bpate4home the wait is grueling because you are in a room with hacking people.  The Doctors are tired.

 

In San Angelo, the leader of The San Angelo Freedom Fighters group was an avid detractor of the Covid Vaccine, wearing masks, and any other measure that might prevent the spread of Covid.  He gained national attention.  After his 7-4-21 rally he got sick and toughed it out till  around the end of July when he went into the hospital.  Since 8-8-21 he has been intubated and unconscious.  He has 3 little kids and a pregnant wife he was responsible for.   Here is the full newspaper article.

As of 8-27-21 it doesnt look good for him per a news release by his family.

Caleb Wallace had no underlying health issues.

This is what is going on in San Angelo right under my eyes. 

 

https://sanangelolive.com/news/san-angelo/2021-08-27/family-confirms-caleb-wallace-has-hours-left-live

 

StandardTimes082221.pdf

Edited August 28, 2021 by Du-Rron

[Marcarl]

8 hours ago, Du-Rron said:

@bpate4home the wait is grueling because you are in a room with hacking people.  The Doctors are tired.

 

In San Angelo, the leader of The San Angelo Freedom Fighters group was an avid detractor of the Covid Vaccine, wearing masks, and any other measure that might prevent the spread of Covid.  He gained national attention.  After his 7-4-21 rally he got sick and toughed it out till  around the end of July when he went into the hospital.  Since 8-8-21 he has been intubated and unconscious.  He has 3 little kids and a pregnant wife he was responsible for.   Here is the full newspaper article.

As of 8-27-21 it doesnt look good for him per a news release by his family.

Caleb Wallace had no underlying health issues.

This is what is going on in San Angelo right under my eyes. 

 

https://sanangelolive.com/news/san-angelo/2021-08-27/family-confirms-caleb-wallace-has-hours-left-live

 

StandardTimes082221.pdf 1.91 MB · 1 download

Scary!! That's why we have vaccines and why Marca and I got stabbed. When it gets to be our turn, maybe, just maybe it won't be as bad. As in motorcycles, it's not 'if' you drop your scoot, but 'when'.

 

[bpate4home]

9 hours ago, Du-Rron said:

@bpate4home the wait is grueling because you are in a room with hacking people.  The Doctors are tired.

 

In San Angelo, the leader of The San Angelo Freedom Fighters group was an avid detractor of the Covid Vaccine, wearing masks, and any other measure that might prevent the spread of Covid.  He gained national attention.  After his 7-4-21 rally he got sick and toughed it out till  around the end of July when he went into the hospital.  Since 8-8-21 he has been intubated and unconscious.  He has 3 little kids and a pregnant wife he was responsible for.   Here is the full newspaper article.

As of 8-27-21 it doesnt look good for him per a news release by his family.

Caleb Wallace had no underlying health issues.

This is what is going on in San Angelo right under my eyes. 

 

https://sanangelolive.com/news/san-angelo/2021-08-27/family-confirms-caleb-wallace-has-hours-left-live

 

StandardTimes082221.pdf 1.91 MB · 2 downloads

These are the extremes that are being used as fear mongering as they can be documented and they are the rare outliers. Again there are estimates as high as 40% of the population have had COVID with little or no symptoms but unfortunately these cannot be documented. I personally know 15 - 20 people who have had COVID or tested positive for the antibodies who have had little to no symptoms. I also know 3 that have died with the Virus but all 3 had severe underlying conditions of Cancer, major heart conditions and diabetes. I personally don't know any one who died strictly because of SARS-COV-2.

[Du-Rron]

@bpate4home no, these are not the extremes.  Folks may say that, to bolster the ideas they have in their head and to ignore what is going on in front of them and to degrade opposing information they may receive.  I started out by saying it is impossible to change folks minds on any internet medium.  I still stand by that and I am not trying to change yours.  I am only reporting what is going on in my city by providing documentation I have, and to provide nationwide links like covidactnow.org, all of which may violate any antivax/anticovid persons sensibilities.  No need to ballywho about extreme statics on this that or the other. Assisting Covid folks, as of 08-28-21, is taking up very nearly ALL of Shannon's ER capacity. Shannon has run out of beds (and/or Nurse capacity) as of 08-26-21. Shannon has stated this. The local newspaper has run articles on it. The Shannon doctors have made videos about it. Individual Doctors have made videos.  Gov Abbot is in critical nurse search mode now. Texas has been rated as "Severe".                                 

This  IS  what is going on in San Angelo right now.   I hope it is better where you are.

[ChiefGunner]

10 hours ago, Marcarl said:

Scary!! That's why we have vaccines and why Marca and I got stabbed. When it gets to be our turn, maybe, just maybe it won't be as bad. As in motorcycles, it's not 'if' you drop your scoot, but 'when'.

As previous stated by renowned Dr’s and medical specialists... the vaccine does not prevent you from getting covid nor does it prevent you from spreading it. Therefore what is it’s true purpose?  Would you buy a car that didn’t work? A boat that sinks? Food that is rotten and you can’t eat?

The only thing that has been proven at a medical summit by pathologists and hematologists is the damage it does to your organs, and that it destroys your own innate immune system in favor of the RNA.

Roll the dice baby, it’s your life but some of us don’t like to gamble.

Edited August 28, 2021 by ChiefGunner
Grammar

[uncledj]

  Recently heard stats being discussed about hospitals being overwhelmed here in Columbus, OH.   Ohio Health gave some stats for it's facilities having ICUs at 98% capacity, which sounds scary, but it turns out that in total, there were only 14 beds being used for covid related illness.

  I think they intentionally mislead when putting out this info.

[ChiefGunner]

8 hours ago, bpate4home said:

These are the extremes that are being used as fear mongering as they can be documented and they are the rare outliers. Again there are estimates as high as 40% of the population have had COVID with little or no symptoms but unfortunately these cannot be documented. I personally know 15 - 20 people who have had COVID or tested positive for the antibodies who have had little to no symptoms. I also know 3 that have died with the Virus but all 3 had severe underlying conditions of Cancer, major heart conditions and diabetes. I personally don't know any one who died strictly because of SARS-COV-2.

I do have a ministry team member who’s friend knows first hand of 7 family members and friends who have died after receiving the JAB.

[Du-Rron]

I have refrained from providing data from The CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/index.html

because I know that there are those that will not accept that data and the conversation will be lead astray to another problem.

 

I have refrained from providing data from World Health Organization

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-vaccines?topicsurvey=v8kj13)&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvaeJBhCvARIsABgTDM5fnf_lknDLWkqCbnp1gNoBwhzc1gdJo4fXXOoL3a0Dnzxlf1zSpZ0aAg0EEALw_wcB

because there are those that will not accept that data either and the conversation will be lead astray to other unrelated problems as well.

 

I have refrained from providing data from 5 Billion doses given that proves the vaccine is safe and effective

https://www.google.com/search?q=world+covid+vaccine&oq=world+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i59j46i67i199i465j0i67l2j69i60j69i65.2234j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

because some of you will not accept that data either and will lead the conversation further off track.

 

I have only provided data from my own Community and the associated data that goes along with it. This IS what is happening here and no debate about a fringe case here there and yonder will change that for what is ACTUALLY hapening here in San Angelo right at this moment. Yet some of you still find a way to talk about a fringe %0.000008 of unverified cases supposedly gone horribly wrong after vaccination and then to twist my data to fit your own narrative.  Really folks, this IS what is going on in San Angelo, my own home town, I work in a company of 1000 people where dozens are out now and I can trip right down to Shannon and see the totality for myself.  

 

 

 

[bpate4home]

1 hour ago, Du-Rron said:

I have refrained from providing data from The CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/index.html

because I know that there are those that will not accept that data and the conversation will be lead astray to another problem.

 

I have refrained from providing data from World Health Organization

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-vaccines?topicsurvey=v8kj13)&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvaeJBhCvARIsABgTDM5fnf_lknDLWkqCbnp1gNoBwhzc1gdJo4fXXOoL3a0Dnzxlf1zSpZ0aAg0EEALw_wcB

because there are those that will not accept that data either and the conversation will be lead astray to other unrelated problems as well.

 

I have refrained from providing data from 5 Billion doses given that proves the vaccine is safe and effective

https://www.google.com/search?q=world+covid+vaccine&oq=world+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i59j46i67i199i465j0i67l2j69i60j69i65.2234j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

because some of you will not accept that data either and will lead the conversation further off track.

 

I have only provided data from my own Community and the associated data that goes along with it. This IS what is happening here and no debate about a fringe case here there and yonder will change that for what is ACTUALLY hapening here in San Angelo right at this moment. Yet some of you still find a way to talk about a fringe %0.000008 of unverified cases supposedly gone horribly wrong after vaccination and then to twist my data to fit your own narrative.  Really folks, this IS what is going on in San Angelo, my own home town, I work in a company of 1000 people where dozens are out now and I can trip right down to Shannon and see the totality for myself.  

 

 

 

@Du-Rron There is a very valid reason why I don't trust a particular set of the data from both and it is a real simple concept. From the CDC, a memo that stated 6% of the COVID death total was actually due to only the COVID 19 virus. at the time Fauchi and the Media chastised anyone who made this statement. This is a Government Bureaucracy leadership blocking or trying to control their own data. Ask yourself why.

I just learned a friend passed away. I spent many years working with him in Boy Scouts. He went with his grandchild on a campout with the scouts. When he came home a few days later felt ill, Went to the Dr. and had a severe lung infection that had become pneumonia. He became infected with the COVID19 virus and passed away a week later after that. Statistically he will be listed as a COVID death but from what we've been told they were not expecting him to survive the pneumonia. While listing him as a COVID death could be construed accurate it was really the pneumonia that was the largest factor in his death. BTW: He was fully vaccinated months ago. When do we stop calling them break through cases?

[larrydr]

Wearing a mask is only part of preventing Covid from spreading  ..We should all do our part

[larrydr]

Wearing a mask and social distancing  are only part of preventing Covid from spreading  ..We should all do our part  

[uncledj]

I think it was Mark Twain (A very great man) who once said "It's easier to fool people than to make them realize they've been fooled".

[saddlebum]

 

On 8/28/2021 at 12:03 AM, Du-Rron said:

In San Angelo, the leader of The San Angelo Freedom Fighters group was an avid detractor of the Covid Vaccine, wearing masks, and any other measure that might prevent the spread of Covid.  He gained national attention.  After his 7-4-21 rally he got sick and toughed it out till  around the end of July when he went into the hospital.  Since 8-8-21 he has been intubated and unconscious.  He has 3 little kids and a pregnant wife he was responsible for. 

So I may sound a little harsh here but to me this is just another example of being selfish, he was more concerned about his personal rights then his responsibility to family. One of my pet peeves is when children pay the price for something they have no say in. Like the single anti-mask mother in Toronto last summer (vaccines weren't out then put I suspect she would have been anti- vaccine as well) who praised  the guy that  defied shut down orders and attended his fully opened to full capacity  restaurant with her small child. She along with a high number of other customers got covid and she herself got so ill they had to put her on a ventilator. The child who had no say in the matter fortunately only had minor symptoms. After months in the hospital the women was lucky enough to pull through and barely survived. So, were would that child be if she had not?

 

On 8/27/2021 at 9:51 PM, bpate4home said:

Maybe true but looking at the age segments in the beginning of this the percentages followed the average ages of other deaths in the previous 10 years.  Also, this is survival of the fittest. 94% of those that die from COVID have underlying health issues.  These items have only changed slightly.  The biggest concern that keeps getting pounded by the media is the asymptomatic carriers.  I believe that is what most would have been 200 years ago.  

moot, point anyway as this virus is man made.

So based on the theory of the survival of the fittest, why then have any medical care at all? Like good livestock the fittest would continue to procreate improving the quality of the species and tough luck to those who can't cut it. In other words maybe as a society we should just decide on one path or the other we either try to survive by any means our combine  intelligence is capable of coming up with or we just revert to 100% survival of the fittest. Yet I would be curious to know, how many among those who preach survival of the fittest, when sick, would allow nature to take its course and how many will run straight to the doctor or the hospital for help in hopes of getting well.

 

On 8/28/2021 at 9:57 AM, bpate4home said:

These are the extremes that are being used as fear mongering as they can be documented and they are the rare outliers. Again there are estimates as high as 40% of the population have had COVID with little or no symptoms but unfortunately these cannot be documented. I personally know 15 - 20 people who have had COVID or tested positive for the antibodies who have had little to no symptoms. I also know 3 that have died with the Virus but all 3 had severe underlying conditions of Cancer, major heart conditions and diabetes. I personally don't know any one who died strictly because of SARS-COV-2.

There is obviously some truth to the fact that people with underlying issues have the lowest chance of survival. How ever that logic applies to almost any medical illness you can name but still these same people had they got sick by any other illness had a better chance of survival then with covid. As well there have been an unprecedented number of perfectly healthy individual that would normally have survived other illness that did not survive covid dispite not having any underlying issues at all, Maybe not many but more than what would have occurred with any other illness we currantly have to deal with.

18 hours ago, bpate4home said:

There is a very valid reason why I don't trust a particular set of the data from both and it is a real simple concept. From the CDC, a memo that stated 6% of the COVID death total was actually due to only the COVID 19 virus. at the time Fauchi and the Media chastised anyone who made this statement. This is a Government Bureaucracy leadership blocking or trying to control their own data. Ask yourself why.

Government is never perfect but still IMHO the lessor of other options, many which lack the proper qualifications yet profess to be experts and in doing so even manage to develop a group of misinformed followers which can be dangerous in it own way. Then there are the qualified experts on both side of the fence that have different opinions so now you have to choose which one is right and which is wrong but to do that you would have to be better educated and more knowledgeable then they are. Then there are the conspiracy theory's at the end of the day conspiracy theory's are just that created mostly by chicken little,s and about as reliable as the predicting the end of the world. which by the way has come and and gone numerous times and if you notice none of those who ever predict the end ever admit they were totally wrong. It was some one miss-interpreted the original calendar wrong  or interpreted the wrong calendar or its the scientists fault because they did not properly determine the actual number of days in a year. So at the end of the day right or wrong I will assume that for the most part we are still far better off wearing masks and getting vaccinated then not mainly because I have found that in the past most so called experts that go against the advice of the majority of experts and medical experts, at the end of the day more often than not have been proven to be wrong in their theories.

 

12 hours ago, uncledj said:

I think it was Mark Twain (A very great man) who once said "It's easier to fool people than to make them realize they've been fooled".

That statement holds true were things are obvious and no debate exists. In other cases it can be applied to either side of any debate. So now we would have to decide which side is being fooled and which side is not which would probably create a whole new debate as to who is the fool and who is not in the eyes of the oppisite side of any debate.

Edited August 29, 2021 by saddlebum

[ChiefGunner]

3 hours ago, saddlebum said:

The others being Joe blow down the street. groups of under educated know-it-alls  many which are no more qualified than the  equivalent of couch potatoes sports expert coach wannabe's and then there are the totally off the wall extremists like some groups we are well aware of.

I would caution your rhetoric here @saddlebum as to this point everyone in this has just presented various opinions without denigration.  Your statement above begins to clearly cross that line in your reference to those (myself included) who do not agree with your assessment.

Let’s keep this reasonable and respectful, which it has been to this point.

[saddlebum]

1 hour ago, ChiefGunner said:

I would caution your rhetoric here @saddlebum as to this point everyone in this has just presented various opinions without denigration.  Your statement above begins to clearly cross that line in your reference to those (myself included) who do not agree with your assessment.

Let’s keep this reasonable and respectful, which it has been to this point.

I got your point and rephrased to what I hope is more acceptable and less offensive as I only wish to present a point of view, not offend anybody.

Edited August 29, 2021 by saddlebum

[uncledj]

13 hours ago, uncledj said:

I think it was Mark Twain (A very great man) who once said "It's easier to fool people than to make them realize they've been fooled".

I agree with your premise that both sides are open to being hoodwinked.

The reason I posted that is so that BOTH sides of the argument look a bit deeper to try to figure if they've been fooled, or if they stand on solid ground.

  This makes me think that we must consider the motives of each side, certainly before allowing a non vaccine "vaccine" to be injected into their body.

  On one side there's the potential for a populace accustomed to government control, let's not forget $$$, and the further ability to institute authoritarian policies all in the name of public safety...."Isn't it all worth it if it saves just ONE life"...???....no....All being pushed to make people think they're bad people if they don't comply.

  What's on the other side?....A struggle to maintain individual liberties....the spirit of self reliance and rugged individualism that the country was founded on.   Not much $$$ or opportunity for power / control in that.

  I believe that it's everyone's right to sit at home with however many masks on they want.   They can order contactless delivery of groceries...stay endlessy distracted with Netflix....or Venturerider...or whatever.   (Can't live without my Venturider fix)

THAT indicates a struggle to hang onto life without worry about the joy of living.