Riding a sports bike VS. riding a touring bike

[Patch]

I watch this video the other day and I got to thinking of an old post some years back.

I think that many of us old timers have techniques that are more reflex then we or I can explain and put into words.

My son does not enjoy a touring bike period. He is very much a technical rider and simply does not the like weight and slow response of the setups touring rider enjoy.

The 2 MKll we ran were different then stock setups up front. The 91 was the most difficult for me to get to my liking and so I used springs and shims along with air pressure to hit my marks.

Before doing so I found the 91 to unpredictable, for me. I like a quick ride and I enjoy the end of the line the most, standing her up again. So some years ago I noted in a post I favor the rear brake leaning in to, then during I count on ratio and throttle for pulling it thru and maintain my predicted line. But why the rear and not the front brake?

Rowling mass and momentum (s) this is where touring bikes are different then the sport bikes in a lean. If I slip my rear wheel, I simply keep looking thru, if I slip my front I'm in trouble. I have of course needed to use the front brake at times to slow the energy up front but, if you are running linked brakes then that rarely an issue. Of course if you are pointing your right knee the peddle is a hard reach but that thru the curve not before. Thru the curve we have ratio and throttle to adjust our leans, something we have in common with sport bikes because that's the physics.

Exploring the rear brake a bit further: picking a line then using the rear we tend to stretch the bike out, making it tighter. Why, all the joints, bearings and bushings. Next up is the rake. These front fork on this kind of rake with the long reach add a hard to understand added flex. Setting your bike for a line thru is more time and effort. That spells a slower speed thru it. I think that is acceptable for a touring bike. Remember we are down shifting and braking with a long reach more weight and more forward moving mass so inertia and that is all the moving parts taking time to sync up.

Progressive as in the type of coil are slower acting than non progressive, non progressive are more trying on a touring bike.

Tire pressure matters. We tend to max them on touring bikes for tire life. But have any tried to lower that till you find a sweet spot. Lower tire changes the patch contact area, also reduce vibration throughout the fork, so it acts as a damper.

Tire selection. I enjoy sticky vs. twice the tire life or what ever that turns out to be. Same for my cars, not worth the savings in my way of thinking.    

Genll all I know is what i see, I'd rather ride ahead or keep them far enough ahead that I don't see them pushing and scraping thru too close to the yellow/white lines like their heads are replaceable.  My Cade is the heaviest I've ridden and shes solid when on her line, but I would not keep up with a MKl or ll. Trying to would make a fool of me, so I make up for the gap by beating it to the next curve;) snooker move

Anyways I'd enjoy reading the clubs thoughts and tips for tour riding.  

Edited July 14, 2021 by Patch

[Tysons87venture]

I'm really liking the comfort of the venture royale. I used to like the adrenaline rush of my 1000 honda superhawk. The only thing I found was I would get way to sore on longer rides and I'm only 32 years of age but I feel i grew out of it and wanted comfort. The venture royale still seems to have a ton of torque, I love twins and how they sound, really the venture royale has everything I would want in a bike, the new star ventures look really nice too but have yet to drive one.

I do seem to be digging the linked brake system,  I can admit of only drove 8 different bikes in my lifetime but this bike is special, I can see why my grandpa loved it so much and took it everywhere

[Patch]

One of my favorite characteristic of that bike after cutting the shield down, was how she'd just kink over in strong winds and sail thru. Not sure what design feature allows it to be so sure footed that way.

By the way I tried to edit my first post a couple of times after posting, it would let me edit but not save, hmm.

I was trying to say "wouldn't keep up"" and a couple of "that;s"  

[Tysons87venture]

Nice tip, I may have to cut mine down and try it out

[skydoc_17]

Wait a MINUTE!!! The First Gen. Yamaha Venture Royale is NOT a Sport Bike!?!? I beg to differ. Let us not forget that the MKI Venture was introduced a YEAR BEFORE the VMAX!! With the introduction of the MKII in 1986, you had a 1.3 liter, 800 pound road carver with a FIXED Fairing and NO Chain to worry about! (Plus who could forget the High Performance Cassette Deck that came stock! LOL) With a few addon's like solid motor mounts, which make the engine and frame a solid fixed mass, Progressive Springs and the removal of the Anti-Dives firms up the front end, in my opinion, and if you drop in a VMAX Final Drive, well, now you have a respectable curve machine. I am NOT even going to debate the Linked vrs. De-Linked Brake Issue, Both of my MKII First Gen's. are De-Linked and have the R1 calipers on them because I too like to "touch" the rear brake when I am positioning my bike to carve a sweeper turn. I find the bike heels over much better with a little back brake magic. I have also found that having two matched calipers up front, both engaging at the same time, by a single Master Cylinder stop the bike quicker and Straighter than a set of mismatched front calipers  being activated by two different Master Cylinders by two different body parts! (Yes, the MKII front calipers have two different caliper piston sizes)

Now, don't get me wrong, my 87'VR is NO Yamaha R1! It doesn't have a 6 speed tranny, and it will never see 200 MPH, but at the end of a 500 mile riding day, let's see who gets "beat up" more.

I think Yamaha created the perfect riding machine with the introduction of the First Gen. Venture Royale. It's a rolling piece of Art in my opinion. There are bikes that go faster and lean further, but their claim to fame is just that one thing! With the Venture, you get enough of ALL of the things you look for in a motorcycle, in one package! The other thing I like about the First Gen. Venture is that you can mod this bike to your liking. My 89'VR is bone stock except for the De-Link, the R1 brakes, the VMAX Final Drive and a Fuse Box Upgrade. I use this bike to pull my camping trailer. Now my 87'VR is a different animal. It has the De-Link with the R1 brakes, a modded FJR Final Drive, 150/80/15" rear tire, Extended FJR Swing Arm, VMAX Heads, Cams and Valves, Progressive Front Springs and deleted Anti-Dives, 100/80/18" front tire, the Fuse Box Upgrade, a Crankcase Vent Filter, S.S. Brake and Clutch Lines and NOS! This bike is not for the faint of heart!!

I personally am at a time in my life where I could own pretty much any production motorcycle I could want. And every morning when I go out to my garage, there she sits, the motorcycle I really want, my 87'VR. I consider myself a VERY lucky man!

My thought, for what they are worth!

Earl

[larrydr]

My XVZ1200 ... has 150 80 16 at the rear ....Is there a 15 inch  rear wheel that would fit 

Edited July 16, 2021 by larrydr
spelling

[Patch]

3 hours ago, skydoc_17 said:

Wait a MINUTE!!! The First Gen. Yamaha Venture Royale is NOT a Sport Bike!?!? I beg to differ. Let us not forget that the MKI Venture was introduced a YEAR BEFORE the VMAX!! With the introduction of the MKII in 1986, you had a 1.3 liter, 800 pound road carver with a FIXED Fairing and NO Chain to worry about! (Plus who could forget the High Performance Cassette Deck that came stock! LOL) With a few addon's like solid motor mounts, which make the engine and frame a solid fixed mass, Progressive Springs and the removal of the Anti-Dives firms up the front end, in my opinion, and if you drop in a VMAX Final Drive, well, now you have a respectable curve machine. I am NOT even going to debate the Linked vrs. De-Linked Brake Issue, Both of my MKII First Gen's. are De-Linked and have the R1 calipers on them because I too like to "touch" the rear brake when I am positioning my bike to carve a sweeper turn. I find the bike heels over much better with a little back brake magic. I have also found that having two matched calipers up front, both engaging at the same time, by a single Master Cylinder stop the bike quicker and Straighter than a set of mismatched front calipers  being activated by two different Master Cylinders by two different body parts! (Yes, the MKII front calipers have two different caliper piston sizes)

Now, don't get me wrong, my 87'VR is NO Yamaha R1! It doesn't have a 6 speed tranny, and it will never see 200 MPH, but at the end of a 500 mile riding day, let's see who gets "beat up" more.

I think Yamaha created the perfect riding machine with the introduction of the First Gen. Venture Royale. It's a rolling piece of Art in my opinion. There are bikes that go faster and lean further, but their claim to fame is just that one thing! With the Venture, you get enough of ALL of the things you look for in a motorcycle, in one package! The other thing I like about the First Gen. Venture is that you can mod this bike to your liking. My 89'VR is bone stock except for the De-Link, the R1 brakes, the VMAX Final Drive and a Fuse Box Upgrade. I use this bike to pull my camping trailer. Now my 87'VR is a different animal. It has the De-Link with the R1 brakes, a modded FJR Final Drive, 150/80/15" rear tire, Extended FJR Swing Arm, VMAX Heads, Cams and Valves, Progressive Front Springs and deleted Anti-Dives, 100/80/18" front tire, the Fuse Box Upgrade, a Crankcase Vent Filter, S.S. Brake and Clutch Lines and NOS! This bike is not for the faint of heart!!

I personally am at a time in my life where I could own pretty much any production motorcycle I could want. And every morning when I go out to my garage, there she sits, the motorcycle I really want, my 87'VR. I consider myself a VERY lucky man!

My thought, for what they are worth!

Earl

OH CHIT I  am humbled by your Post

Wow EH skydoc what dragged you down to my level? lol right on!

[Patch]

10 hours ago, Tysons87venture said:

Nice tip, I may have to cut mine down and try it out

Tyson what works for me may or may not work for you. I had to grow past 2 big mistakes that have last a life time. Never think for a moment that what you have learned is not equal in value. I guess the thing is is that growing old on two wheels is a very personal thing. Most of us oldzimers guys strive to share only to open or provoke thought. We are still learning and have much to learn from the new and younger members

[Tysons87venture]

14 hours ago, Patch said:

Tyson what works for me may or may not work for you. I had to grow past 2 big mistakes that have last a life time. Never think for a moment that what you have learned is not equal in value. I guess the thing is is that growing old on two wheels is a very personal thing. Most of us oldzimers guys strive to share only to open or provoke thought. We are still learning and have much to learn from the new and younger members 

I feel the same way in my field of work I'm always learning, yes I'm licensed and love teaching the younger guys the tricks of the trade but I will always be learning and trying to become even better at my job and be as valuable as I can possible be.  You older guys have tons more experience and I will always respect you guys for all that you have passed down to us guys.

It is alot of information to take in at times i re read the case for fogging and realized I didnt do it right at all and alot of that was me being impatient and wanting to get out on the damn thing lol. And I am new to this hobbie and love working on bike. Lots of trial and error and wish I had found this site sooner. You all have made everything easier for me and im constantly fixing issues.

This site will be valuable for many years, it was such a good invention and so much dedication and hard work put in by members to make it easier for new guys like me. 

As I get some more experience on bike I would be able to provide more input on what I like and dont like about it. So far it's been a blast. Riding 2 and doesnt even feel like a 2nd rider on the bike, I few times I had to reach back and make sure my woman was still on as I thought maybe I dumped her out around a turn lol

[larrydr]

5 hours ago, Tysons87venture said:

I feel the same way in my field of work I'm always learning, yes I'm licensed and love teaching the younger guys the tricks of the trade but I will always be learning and trying to become even better at my job and be as valuable as I can possible be.  You older guys have tons more experience and I will always respect you guys for all that you have passed down to us guys.

It is alot of information to take in at times i re read the case for fogging and realized I didnt do it right at all and alot of that was me being impatient and wanting to get out on the damn thing lol. And I am new to this hobbie and love working on bike. Lots of trial and error and wish I had found this site sooner. You all have made everything easier for me and im constantly fixing issues.

This site will be valuable for many years, it was such a good invention and so much dedication and hard work put in by members to make it easier for new guys like me. 

As I get some more experience on bike I would be able to provide more input on what I like and dont like about it. So far it's been a blast. Riding 2 and doesnt even feel like a 2nd rider on the bike, I few times I had to reach back and make sure my woman was still on as I thought maybe I dumped her out around a turn lol

I do know of someone that lost a passenger ..did not end well

[Patch]

So look guys: Thing is that there are so many of us that were where you are today;getting back to it.

It was a pleasure to see Tyson in the thread. Why because he is one of the 2 mountains I strive to keep up with. I remember Allo Bobby and Rose: So we had this print setter he ran a costume 68 ss, like machinists I always felt 3 best at best. Some of us are good but handicapped those 2 trades know nothing of  handicapping, we are all just "them"

And we mere  mortals persist eventually figuring chit out and being able to keep up. (providing we aint challenging them"

So the thing is this joint has so much more to share then we tend too. We've raised children, built successes, ride when we can to avoid therapy  

Riding these big touring bikes takes time to master, pitching a tent, fixing or helping others down the road... To me that is the future of the club, today is just to short a time to measure.

So there is a secret around, just us old Canadians know about, reachout out to @Marcarl or @sadlebum to find out about it;) seeyou aroundmaybe.

[Patch]

Duey I just can't see your post, Bro.