Pains me to consider...

[JFootman]

Still feeling like a bit of a boob as every forum post I have read grazes over the screw removal with exception of "don't strip it" and apply heat. I've tried to gain insight from the service manual but I don't see anything that describes the segment removal. I'm using THIS post as a guide (among others) but again I feel like I must be making a mountain out of a molehill or just not bright enough to easily see the solution.

Will this work? The socket was placed under the shift lever to keep it out of the way. Small piece of steel vice-gripped to the socket and slid under the pin to prevent downwards rotation. I don't like the torsion that will be placed on the drum but I don't see any other way. There is no pressure on the shift lever but all the force will be downwards on the housing. I've got a Dewalt 1/4" impact driver with a Torx bit and also have a Torx socket and a breaker bar available.

Fearing my membership dues may increase exponentially next year....

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by JFootman
Added image

[Marcarl]

Yep, probably in there with lock-tite. I've never had to remove that bunny, but if I were the one tasked with the issue, here's what I would do. First turn the shift drum all the way counter clockwise, that way I could get rid of the extra tools. Then with a small torch, propane would be fine, I would heat the bolt head for a while. Then I would insert the torx bit, on the end of my impact gun, making sure it was turning in the right direction the first time, and then with a good amount of forward pressure, hold my breath, quit shaking and squeeze the trigger a quick burst. That would tell me if there was enough heat on the threads to loosen the lock-tite.

[saddlebum]

I would do as Marcarl stated with one exception I would avoid use of an impact gun using it as a last resort only. in my field as a heavy duty mechanic, I have seen far too many torx heads round out or round off because of the way an impact gun works. Use a hand tool and steady pressure is the the safest way using a longer handle if needed the bit may break but at least you won't round out the head. you can also try heating the head of the bolt (red if possible)  then immediately and  quickly quench the head with cold water repeat a couple of times then again attempt to back the screw out. Failing that use a hand impact driver such as https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/p/KDT1140D?gclid=Cj0KCQjwk4yGBhDQARIsACGfAetK2Sr16P1iz7MT8c9hl2d_b2ZpA_ZnABnq1GAe3wi5TAWt72ihl-MaAgg9EALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=Cj0KCQjwk4yGBhDQARIsACGfAetK2Sr16P1iz7MT8c9hl2d_b2ZpA_ZnABnq1GAe3wi5TAWt72ihl-MaAgg9EALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3645!3!303422060307!!!g!296274828640!

to try to remove the screw this tool twists as you wack the end with a hammer while twisting the tool in the proper direction which will supply both inward pressure and twist at the same time. If all this fails then try an impact gun as a last resort. by this time the screw may even have given in a bit and become a bit more cooperative.

Edited June 11, 2021 by saddlebum

[JFootman]

Thx, @Marcarl & @saddlebum. Admittedly it was a sleepless night (all I can think about is shearing off the screw!) so this is brainpower with less than 3 hours of sleep on it so bear with me.

Neither of you believe it is necessary to support or reverse the twist against the drum? Put it in 1st or 5th (whichever is at the end of the counterclockwise rotation) and start the heating process? I suppose the reason no one is making a fuss over the bolt is they are doing just that.

I have a cheap-o Harbor Freight impact driver but again, not having gone to this degree of mechanic work I'm just anxious about screwing anything up. Beating on a screw or bolt when I can visualize the steel I'm pounding against is a more comfortable proposition!

I guess I just need to man up and quit being a wuss about this. I also suppose the worst case scenario I strip the screw or bugger up the drum & I purchase a new one. I've always spent more than twice the time thinking about a problem than it takes to perform the task & usually it's the first solution I came up with!

[saddlebum]

4 hours ago, JFootman said:

I've always spent more than twice the time thinking about a problem than it takes to perform the task & usually it's the first solution I came up with!

Trust me inexperience does not necessarily hold the monopoly on overthinking. Sometimes experience because you know what can go wrong can have you humming and hawing more so than a rookie. 

[JFootman]

I know this is getting old for everyone (moderator can move topic to "Tech Talk" or maybe there's a forum "this is what a wrench is..." or "mechanics 101") as this has morphed into a greenie orientation into bike work but my worst fears have happened. 

Heated bolt (well beyond 500 degrees) and used Torx socket. The head of the socket twisted. Purchased replacement and heated the bolt & quenched x3 then heated again and no dice. Also tried the impact driver. Then used a small socket over bolt head and smacked 3x aggressively, heated to the point the shift lever assembly covering the shift segment was red hot (heat was focused on the bolt however) and yet another Torx socket twisted unfortunately buggering the head of the screw this time. 

I have drilled out the bolt & the head is removed, dowels and retaining plate pulled however the arms of the shift lever assembly will not move up or out far enough to remove the segment off of the remaining bolt. Another "walkthrough" on replacing the segment had recommended loosening the clamp on the shift shaft on the other side to move it out and up but after reading all the horror stories of leaking oil seals has made me reluctant to drive the shaft out forcibly but I don't see any other solution. I've loosened the clamp bolt hoping there would be enough play and there's not. 

My expectation now is to drive the shaft part of the way out from the other side, rotate the end assembly up, remove the segment I'm planning on replacing & exposing the bolt. Heat the remaining bolt directly and hopefully pulling without issue (yeah, like that's gonna happen!). Of course any monkey can tear things apart so we'll see about reassembly. I suspect I'm going to have to pull the muffler to gain access to the end of the shift shaft to reseat the (possibly now leaking) oil seal and clamp.

Got a few more hours sleep last night but hope I'm thinking and explaining clearly. The original post might be apropos yet again if I keep screwing more things up....

[saddlebum]

When you heated the bolt did you completely cool it down before attempting to turn it or did you make the mistake of trying to to turn it while it was hot. NEVER turn a bolt while it is hot specially red hot as it is too soft and it will twist. The same can happen if you let the bolt cool slowly the idea is to heat and totally and quickly cool it down. the sudden cooling hardens and shrinks the bolt. Maybe I should have been more clear in my previously posted suggestions.

Edited June 12, 2021 by saddlebum

[JFootman]

When I quenched it I obviously heated then cooled rapidly. With the red Loctite, my assumption was that it needed to remain liquified so yes, I tried to turn it when it was hot, perhaps leading towards the stripping but I had tried it completely cooled as well so I don’t think it was poor instruction, @saddlebum. The bolt was VERY soft when drilling out. That combined with the red Loctite was a recipe for disaster when u combine them with, well, ME!

[Marcarl]

Don't you worry none about posting too often, it gets your post counts up and you may win a prize someday.

If I'm reading you right then I would drill out the rest of the remaining bolt, or maybe I can read that you've done that already,,,,, but you still can't get the shift drum to come off. Like I said before, I haven't had to approach that bunny, so @saddlebum might respond again.

[JFootman]

No, @Marcarl, I’ve only drilled it out far enough to remove the head so I would have enough of the bolt to heat the Loctite and grab a hold of. Kinda durned if I do, durned if I don’t. Drill out the bolt further and have difficulty removing from within the drum or move the shift shaft and risk further issues.

Read through the service manual and may b able to simply pull the middle gear cover instead of the muffler but may still be small consolation. Gonna get back at it tonight. Thx agn, gents. 

[RDawson]

I’ve never had to go into this but here is my favorite trick to remove a stuck bolt. If there is enough access I slip a nut over the bolt and mig weld it on, then a ratchet and socket will usually back it out easily. The big trick here is I try to pull it out hot, don’t put much torque on it hot or as said it’ll twist. Most of the time with the heat of the weld they’ll back out without much torque at all. 

[JFootman]

Thx, @RDawson. I don’t have a welder and most who have read any of my posts would probably breathe a sigh of relief! Lord only knows what kinds of problems I’d create with a welder in my hands!!!

Edited June 13, 2021 by JFootman
Wording

[Pro procrastinator]

Could be worse someone could hand you a gas powered cutoff saw

[Patch]

Usually I stay out of MKl shifting issues and there is no doubt that Puc knows them better than most.

But I wouldn't discount @circa1968 comment.

Considering the age V mileage and the fact your recreant oil change is way to dark you may be experiencing  sticking issues. 

I would add the seafoam to the crankcase and let her run with a fan running in front of the rad. Every 5 minutes or so I would gently run thru the shift patterns. I would make sure the rear wheel is off the floor perhaps cut a 2by to ensure the back can't torque down and takeoff.

I also would remove the shift linkage at the knuckle to just delete it from the potential bent or miss adjustment. This will take some fiddling to run thru the gears but worth it.  

The choice in oil is a well proven one. There is no reason to not use seafoam in the crankcase at any point after your oil change.

[JFootman]

HEEELLLLPPP!!!

I wasn't going to share but the night I only got 3 hours sleep I was using the torch (bad combination) and unfortunately when I breezed across the idler pump I toasted 3 of the teeth on the oil pump gear (literally).

Partzilla originally quoted me 3 days to get in stock, now they're saying AUGUST!!!! Can anyone help? I'll pay shipping of course.

Apparently the original part has been changed but is used on much newer vehicles (popped up for a 2004 Royal Star). It calls it the pump idle gear. The original part number is 6H-13351-01-00 and the updated part number is 26H-13351-01-00. Attached are the pics.

Thank you in advance to help me fix my (yet another) boneheaded mistake!!!

[saddlebum]

I hate when that happens. I will check  and see if I have one from an engine I stripped. Not sure if I salvaged that part or not as it was years ago but I shall look. If I do its yours for the cost of shipping.

Edited June 16, 2021 by saddlebum

[luvmy40]

Also, check with your local Yamaha Dealer. My local can usually get me any parts still available through Yamaha in a day or two.

Edited June 16, 2021 by luvmy40

[JFootman]

Thx a bunch even for checking, @saddlebum! Apparently I didn't need a welder to do more damage to her!

Thx, @luvmy40. I'll give our dealer a buzz today. I'm so internet reliant I sometimes forget there are actual brick and mortar buildings with live people in them!

[saddlebum]

Home depot sells a carbon fiber pad that plumbers use to prevent heating stuff that does not want to be heated (except your fingers your on your own there). It has been a life saver for me on many occasions

[JFootman]

The sad thing, @saddlebum is I did some plumbing for my dad recently and he bought one of those but since we didn't need to sweat up against a wall he took it back. Guess I'll be investing in one of those for myself now!