Final Drive Oil Leak - '99 RSV

[BratmanXj]

Middle of last year I started to see some grime build-up under the bike, 1st long ride this year and the drive side of the rear tire is covered in oil.  Haven't pulled the rear tire yet but I believe the oil seal on the final drive is starting to go out.  I'm looking through the manual and R&R of the oil seal isn't very well defined.  Can this be replaced "externally" or does the final drive need to come apart to replace from inside the faceplate?  I believe the drive hub oil seal is 93102-70167-00 

Edited March 21, 2021 by BratmanXj

[BratmanXj]

I'm not finding any video's specific to the Venture (or similar Vmax) on the seal replacement, but I assume most of the Yamaha gear driven bikes have a similar setup.  I found the following video for a Super Tenere that shows an externally removable oil seal and a very close part number on the Tenere vs the Venture.  So this should be good news on replacing my oil seal.

 

[RedRider]

Bratman,

I've never had to change the seal, but here is what it looks like.  Appears the Tenere' Youtube procedure would work.

 

[BratmanXj]

@RedRider Thank you thank you, I did pull my rear wheel off and inspect.  I must have over-tightened the axle last time and put a nice wear groove in that seal.  

[Marcarl]

6 hours ago, BratmanXj said:

@RedRider Thank you thank you, I did pull my rear wheel off and inspect.  I must have over-tightened the axle last time and put a nice wear groove in that seal.  

Don't think that would come from over tightening, if I'm not mistaken torque is 100 ft lbs so things won't get together any closer than that.

[saddlebum]

I agree with Marcarl. you could over torque the axle nut to the point of stripping the threads and you still will not hurt the seal. If the seal is worn the usually factors are age, bearing wear or (and this may be a bit far fetched ) misaligned pumpkin. Before you reassemble it, loosen off the four nuts on the drive shaft tube just enough to allow some rotational movement in the tube. snug up your axle but not to full torque. re tighten the driveshaft tube nuts and then perform final torque on the axle nut. Having said all that don,t forget to check the axle bearings before you reassemble it.

Edited March 28, 2021 by saddlebum

[BratmanXj]

On 3/28/2021 at 12:22 PM, saddlebum said:

If the seal is worn the usually factors are age, bearing wear or (and this may be a bit far fetched ) misaligned pumpkin. Before you reassemble it, loosen off the four nuts on the drive shaft tube just enough to allow some rotational movement in the tube. snug up your axle but not to full torque. re tighten the driveshaft tube nuts and then perform final torque on the axle nut. Having said all that don,t forget to check the axle bearings before you reassemble it.

Bike is a '99 with 78k miles, it started showing up last year when I installed a new tire and much worse this year after another tire change (That Dunlop E4 is the worst feeling tire I've ever ridden on).  Everything else feels good and sturdy on the final drive, no play in the hub or the wheel bearings.  I did have the whole back end off 25k miles ago to grease and torque the swing arm.  If the differential were misaligned it should have shown up closer to that service than now.  The bike is up and taken apart, new seal is on order...if something odd creeps up I'll make sure to post it up here.

[saddlebum]

3 hours ago, BratmanXj said:

  I did have the whole back end off 25k miles ago to grease and torque the swing arm.  If the differential were misaligned it should have shown up closer to that service than now.

Not necessarily, If it were a huge miss-alignment maybe but that is highly unlikely. On the other hand a small misalignment could take quite a while, even years to develop into a leak. You have to keep in mind the seal is flexible and to some degree forgiving when it comes to alignment issue but even it has its limitations. I work with seals on a regular bases from 1/4 inch diameter up to 10 inch and occasionally larger seals as part of my job and have seen all kinds of seal issues including seals improperly installed that should have leaked almost immediately go for thousands of miles before they did.

On another note I am curious about wht you don't like about the E4. I am on my second set have been quite happy with them other than I found after a while the rubber got hard before the tire wore out and started loosing grip in the corners.

Edited March 30, 2021 by saddlebum

[BratmanXj]

On 3/30/2021 at 12:37 AM, saddlebum said:

On another note I am curious about wht you don't like about the E4. I am on my second set have been quite happy with them other than I found after a while the rubber got hard before the tire wore out and started loosing grip in the corners.

The bike just never seemed planted on the E4, always just a little bit squirrely.  I typically run  "softer" Shinko 777 or 230 tires and will get 8-10k per $80 tire.  I figured I'd splurge and buy a good tire this time.  I've put 5k on it and it still feels like a brand new tire I'm trying to break in.  I have a Hagon HD shock and a Stratoliner 130-18 front wheel, so my experiences on how my bike handle are a bit different than people with relatively stock bikes.  

[saddlebum]

If your used to a softer tire this could be why it feels different. The E4 has a stiffer sidewall than the shinko plus dual compound rubber. Harder center strip for wear and softer side wall for cornering. Which is probably why it feels like a new tire Ironically I plan on trying the 777 next tire change because of the cost difference.

[BratmanXj]

I've used the "high mileage touring" tires like the  E3 and the Commander2 on past bikes and they never felt THIS different.  Again, I have this bike set up kind of weird with the HD rear shock and the thinner front tire so when you add in a stiff-side walled rear tire it REALLY sets the back end up high.  I've since switched back to my Tourmaster230 rear that has the same 80 load rating.  I get a solid year of riding out of 1 tire so the relatively short service life compared to the touring tires doesn't bother me.

[BratmanXj]

After a 2 week delay when Amazon lost my new scissor lift so I could pull the rear wheel on the stand I FINALLY got around to pulling the final drive.  When I pulled the rear wheel the bike just poured gear-lube.  The old seal was in such bad shape half of it fell out and the other half I was able to pick out with my nail.  New one pressed in and bike is almost back together....

[saddlebum]

Did you check your bearings before putting it back together. Other than just plain old age, worn bearings are also a common cause of seal failure. Also be sure the is no groove on the wheel hub were the seal rides, or the new seal will fail. If there is, you can get repair sleeves for this. ordering is based on required hub diameter, and so as  to give a friction fit during installation. They available in both metric and SAE and can be purchased through any automotive supplier ( Also commonly known as speedi sleeves ). If you do need to install one, coat the hub with a thin layer of Permatex^® Form-A-Gasket^® No. 2  Sealant, then install the sleeve. The sleeve should com with a tin cup for installation. Use a piece of wood over the cup rather than hitting directly with a hammer and  keep it square to the axle or you will distort the sleeve they are extremely thin, Use alcohol to clean up any residue.

Also don't forget to leave the 4 drive tube nuts just  loose enough to allow movement when you snug up the axle shaft. after snugging up the axle shaft tighten them up and finally fully torque up your axle shaft.

[BratmanXj]

4 hours ago, saddlebum said:

Did you check your bearings before putting it back together. Other than just plain old age, worn bearings are also a common cause of seal failure. Also be sure the is no groove on the wheel hub were the seal rides, or the new seal will fail. 

Also don't forget to leave the 4 drive tube nuts just  loose enough to allow movement when you snug up the axle shaft. after snugging up the axle shaft tighten them up and finally fully torque up your axle shaft.

The rubber on the old seal was just shot, no plasticity left.  The output hub spun smoothly with very little play, there was no scoring that I could see or feel.  I don't believe there was anything detrimental to the operation of the final drive that caused the seal failure.  The bike is a '99 with 80k miles;  I sorta know the old owner and the bike was used for long trips infrequently and sat for 3yrs before I bought it with 40k miles.

Buddy helped me re-assemble the bike last night, but nothing has been torqued down yet...  Had a hold-down strap tear and break while the bike was up on the lift!!!!