Hoo Boy - We Screwed the Pooch - Stuck Shim Bucket - Need Help!!

[RedRider]

Goldenrider and I got one of the shim buckets stuck in the head.  (Don't rotate the cams without shims in the bucket!!).  Now we can't get it out.  Cam has been removed.

Tried heating the area and putting an ice cube on the bucket.  Nothing.  We can rotate it by hammering it around, but it will not come up.

Can't drill through it to put a screw in and pull it (not really comfortable with the thought of shavings in the cylinder anyway).

We have a few neodynium magnets working on it now but don't have high hopes.

Any thoughts without pulling the engine and removing the head?

Edited March 21, 2021 by RedRider

[Marcarl]

I did that once, now to see if I remember how I fixed it. I did not take the cam out, but if I recall I decided that the bucket must have been pushed down at an angle, so the trick would be to straighten out the angle. So with something that will work (punch?) tap the bucket on the high side to put it  back straight. Once it straightens it should pop back up from the spring pressure under it. Careful now, go easy.

[saddlebum]

Sure you already tried but is there enough lip to grab with vise grips ?

Now if you have a welder protect the surrounding area ( home dept sells plumbers flame protector which is great for this ) https://www.homedepot.ca/product/oatey-bagged-9-x-12-flame-protector/1000420496

Cover the head but make hole where the lifter is. Weld a bolt with the head cut off. Grind a 1/8" shoulder on the cut end  and then weld the cut end, to  the top and center of the lifter. The bolt should be long enough  with ample thread length at least 1-1/2 times longer than the length of the lifter. Use stainless welding rod it tends to not make as brittle a weld as other rods when welding to hardened steel ( if you only have an AC welder instead of a DC welder make sure the rod spec states it can be used with AC otherwise go with 6013 rod. Use a rod less than 1/8 say about 3/32 0r 1/16 ). A mig welder will also work. Bend a flat bar into a deep U shape to bridge the hole and deep enough for the lifter to come up into. Drill a hole in the center for the bolt go through put a nut on it and draw the lifter out. (you can also use a piece of pipe deep enough and large enough for the lifter to fit into. Cut enough out of the side of the pipe so you can see whats happening as you attempt to draw the lifter out. Drop a washer larger diameter than the pipe on top and over the bolt add the nut and start to draw the lifter out.

Another trick is to weld a long threaded rod to the lifter drop something heavyish like a deep heavy socket over the rod double nut the end and use as a slide hammer ( in this case I am not a big fan because the shock of the slide hammer blows may be too aggresive and instead of drawing out the lifter it may only succeed in cracking the weld.

WARNING; MAKE SURE YOU TAKE ALL PRECAUTIONS WITH REGARDS TO ANYTHING FLAMMABLE AROUND THE WORK AREA AND BE AWARE EVEN OIL GIVEN ENOUGH HEAT CAN IGNITE SO USE EXTREME CAUTION.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by saddlebum

[RedRider]

@saddlebumThank you for a very complete and detailed option.  I do not have a welder (or any welding skills) so this will be a next to last resort (last resort pulling the head).

Update:

Good news - we were able to purchase a bearing puller / slide hammer from HF (P/N 62601) and it pulled the shim bucket right out.  Yeah!!

Bad news: We bent a valve while dicking with it.  So the engine needs to come out anyway.  Boo!

Dang.  Goldenrider is really disappointed and frustrated  - as am I.  Between the two of us, we took an easy valve job and turned it into an expensive, time consuming project.

Updates will be coming as progress is established.

RR

[Flyinfool]

Bummer

Yes it is a royal pain when you turn the cam with no shim.

Once the cam is out or loose to get it up high enough to slip a shim back in there.

You have to be very careful as it is real easy to roll an edge on the bore in the head and make it stick.

 

[saddlebum]

Sorry you ended up a victim of Murphy's Law. Hopefully the rest of it goes a lot smoother despite the extra work you are now into.

[RedRider]

OK, some minorly good news.  You don't have to pull the engine to get the rear head off - despite what both the Clymers and the Yamaha shop manual says.  Unfortunately, Goldenrider had completely stripped the engine getting it ready for a pull.  I have both clutch and stator cover gaskets, so we can button up the rest of the engine waiting for the head and chain tensioner gasket.  We will make and install a set of raising links while we wait.

Head is going to a machine shop tomorrow to get the valve replaced (definitely bent)  and the bucket tunnel re-honed.  As soon as the gaskets arrive, we will have it back together.

Who wants to bet when this bike is done that the weather gods will dump a bunch of snow on us - it's been about 55-65F here most of the week.

[eagleeye]

Holy cow RR, that sounds like something that would happen to me. Anyways, glad you tow are moving forward with this GR will be riding soon.

BTW, don't you think that YOU should be GR at this point? 😉

[Flyinfool]

SNOW?? DId someone request SNOW???

 

[RedRider]

12 hours ago, eagleeye said:

Holy cow RR, that sounds like something that would happen to me. Anyways, glad you tow are moving forward with this GR will be riding soon.

BTW, don't you think that YOU should be GR at this point? 😉

My son had an '83 blonde Venture I 'won' in a St. Judes fundraiser on this site.  Don't recall who ran the fundraiser. 

Story time:

My wife and I were vacationing in San Antonio (2013) while this fundraising auction was going on.  It got down to 2 people bidding with just a few seconds left.  I looked to my bride and she nodded yes - I bid again and won.  After we headed home, I then asked the question that should have been asked initially.  "Where is this bike, anyway"  Houston.

At the time, my son was living in Austin and didn't have a bike.  He rode mine before he moved out and had an endorsement and a helmet.  He took a bus to Houston to pick it up and rode it back to Austin.  Starter gear started acting up and I bought one from Bongodave (IIRC) and had it shipped to my son.  He rode back to Houston and I rode down from Wisconsin and we met at @Squidley's place to do the change out.  Went great.  Son rode that '83 (with an '86 engine due to previous owner's 2nd gear problem) until early 2020.  He had moved to Phoenix and turned into a pretty good Venture wrench since it was his principal mode of transportation.  At some point I convinced him to join VR and he chose @GoldenRider as his screen name. The bike I won has only been in my garage once when GR rode home to visit.

It was really nickel and diming him and he found it a new home.  Purchased a distressed Honda Valkyrie and got it running well.  However, it didn't really fit him comfortably.  Recently found a really nice 2008 for a better than fair price (had a reported stator issue).  He picked it up in southern Illinois and brought it to our house.  The stator problem was a poor soldering job in place of the stator connector and the plug for the R/R was forced in backwards.  Resoldered the lines, turned the plug around, and we were getting 14 volts charging.  That's when it was decided to do a complete maintenance job including the valve shims.  It has gone seriously pear-shaped from there.

Besides, I'm not ready to retire yet.  Another 5 or so years.  Just have to keep the 2000 going until then so I can finally put some real miles on it (only 160,000 or so on it now).

Edited March 24, 2021 by RedRider