Is my clutch slave bad? xvz13ah 1996

[Berdman]

I am going through changing all my fluids. I bled the slave out. I had no resistance in the lever. Looked at my manual on replacing the slave cylinder. Started to drain the engine oil (as per instructions to replace slave). As I am waiting for the oil to drain I decided to pump the lever thinking it is leaking somewhere. It sunk about half way down the sight glass and I started getting resistance. It doesn't seem to drop lower than half, and if it sits it almost seems to go back up some. I do not see any fluid leak anywhere under the bike.

Is my slave bad/leaking somewhere or did it just need to build up fluid in the slave?
 

Never rode the bike yet. Picked it up at an auction end of last year.

 

Thank you!

[RDawson]

Try bleeding the system at the banjo bolt on the master, then finish at the slave. They trap air right there quite often. Make sure no fluid gets on the plastic, it will melt the the body parts. 

[saddlebum]

1st you will not feel the same resistance with a clutch, as you do with brakes. So do not let that difference deceive you. The best way is with the bike in gear note at which point the clutch engages and disengages while operating the clutch lever. Also if the slave is leaking past the seals there will be no outward signs as the fluid would be leaking into the crankcase. The only indicator would be loss of fluid so if there are no outward signs then the a leaking slave is your most likely culprit. Very easy to remove but you got to hold your tongue the right way to get it back in.

Here are the steps I recommend to bleed a clutch, If all I have to work with is basic hand tools.

1. Crack the line loose at the master. Before you bottom out snug the line up as you continue to squeeze the handle. Release the handle and continue until you see signs of fluid. ( Sometimes if the master was completely dry such as a new one or after rebuilding, you may have to prime it. You can do this by removing the line completely. cover the hole lightly with you finger and squeeze the handle allowing air and/or brake fluid to escape from under you  noting finger. Before releasing the handle clamp your finger tight  and slowly release the handle. repeat until most fluid comes out. At this stage it does not need to be completely air free., your just priming the master ). Once you have done this reconnect the line to the master and perform the procedure at the beginning of this step.
2. Connect a clear line to the bleeder screw, after braking it loose and making sure it moves freely, and run it to the bottom of a catch container with a bit of fluid in it. This helps prevent sucking air back into the system and makes it easy to observe for air in the fluid.
3. Crack the bleeder open at the slave  and slowly squeeze the handle. when it bottoms out snug up the bleeder and release the handle. Continue until fluid starts to come out of the bleeder ( it does not need to be air free at this point ).
4. As you begin to squeeze the handle crack the bleeder open and then quickly close just before the handle bottoms out while fluid is still coming out (Do not pump the handle). Continue until the exiting fluid is air free.
5. Next squeeze the handle but this time leave the bleeder closed until the handle comes to a stop. Pause and hold for a few seconds, (this allows air to come to the top near the bleeder screw) then quickly open the bleeder and then quickly close it again while a bit of fluid is still coming out just before the handle bottoms out. Again continue until the exiting fluid is air free.
6. Finally return to the master. Squeeze the handle until it bottoms out. Pause and hold for a several seconds ( again this allows for any air in the line to rise to the top of the line at the fitting), then quickly loosen bolt just enough to allow some fluid to escape but then quickly snug up the bolt  before the handle bottoms out and while some fluid is still escaping. Repeat until no air spits out.
7. When done fully tighten the bleeder and line retaining bolt.

PRECAUTIONS:

A)-During the process keep an eye on the fluid in the master and keep it topped up. I recommend not letting it go any lower than 1/3 full because if the master goes dry your back to square one.

B)- Cover everything well with rags to protect bike from brake fluid and when bleeding the master at the line use a rag to keep fluid from spraying every where allowing just enough of an opening to allow you to observe the fluid for air. With experience you don't need to look you can hear the difference between when the escaping fluid is air free or if there is air in it.

C)- NOTE: during the process you will not note a mention snug the bleeder and banjo bolt. this is because during the process it is not necessary to fully reef them tight. Just be sure to properly tighten them when you are completely done.

Finally there are other methods that work well such as using a vacuum tool at the bleeder or pressure bleeding, some even recommend speed bleeders, all of which make the job easier.  But as I stated at the beginning, if you are only working with basic tools, these are the steps I recommend  I have used this method on the side of the road and never ever had to re-bleed the system afterwards.

Hope this all helps Good luck.

Edited March 9, 2021 by saddlebum

[SpencerPJ]

I have tied off the clutch lever with a rope, let sit overnight, and most all the air bled out.  Crack the reservoir lid.  In the morning, reseal reservoir lid, release rope slowly. squeeze 1 time and hold, release the banjo bolt to get that high point air out.  

[saddlebum]

8 hours ago, SpencerPJ said:

I have tied off the clutch lever with a rope, let sit overnight, and most all the air bled out.  Crack the reservoir lid.  In the morning, reseal reservoir lid, release rope slowly. squeeze 1 time and hold, release the banjo bolt to get that high point air out.  

Have done that myself as well and it does work ........as long as you get back to it before the master is completely empty .

But of course we won't discuss how I know this..

[BratmanXj]

On 3/9/2021 at 11:44 AM, SpencerPJ said:

I have tied off the clutch lever with a rope, let sit overnight, and most all the air bled out.  Crack the reservoir lid.  In the morning, reseal reservoir lid, release rope slowly. squeeze 1 time and hold, release the banjo bolt to get that high point air out.  

I have done the same one a few bikes over the years.  I'd get good fluid movement on the system but it never really was "good" feel on the lever.  Let it sit over-night and the last bit of air would typically work its way out.

[saddlebum]

2 hours ago, BratmanXj said:

I have done the same one a few bikes over the years.  I'd get good fluid movement on the system but it never really was "good" feel on the lever.  Let it sit over-night and the last bit of air would typically work its way out.

I guess I should have mentioned I finish off by using normal bleeding procedure at both bleeder screw and where line attaches to the master to get rid of any last air remains. when I do use the gravity method.

[Berdman]

So, I resealed the slave cylinder. I have some resistance now. The inner seal looked good still, the outer seal was not the greatest. The only issue. Is I still don't seem to have clutch. Looks like I will be rebuilding the clutch now . I was watching a video on how to do it. Does anyone have any good aftermarket clutch kits or spring kits? I see the plates on ebay for 50 bucks. Anyone had any experience with them?

[saddlebum]

@skydoc_17sells an excellent clutch kit with upgraded 1st disk and heavier spring which is real popular among members here. Myself I replaced mine with the carbon fiber  kit put out by Barnett (this was before I knew about skydocs kits) both are real good options specially if your pulling a trailer. You will find plenty of good feed back here on the site for both specially skydocs kits. You will also find skydoc a great guy to deal with he stands behind what he sells and wont sell you something he would not trust on his own bike.

Edited March 16, 2021 by saddlebum

[skydoc_17]

Hey Ben,

Thanks for the props!! Now Jacob, It would be easy to tell you that the Friction Discs on Ebay were made in China, but the more important point is the fact that new friction discs are NOT going to address the failed part in your clutch which is the Clutch Diaphragm Spring! There are two ways to go here, Switch to the Barnett Clutch System, (don't get me started on putting a 70's era clutch on a 21st century motorcycle!) or go with a heavy duty clutch diaphragm spring and upgrade the 1/2 friction disc in the rear of the clutch pac with a FULL disc. I offer a kit that provides the second option. That kit is in the Member Vendor's section of this forum. If you want to hear the "Long Version" of the pros and cons of the Barnett Clutch System ask, and I will explain it to you. Otherwise, check out the Member Vendor section of the forum and I will get that kit right out to you. I also wanted to mention that 50 new clutches are NOT going to solve a leaking Clutch Master Cylinder or Slave Cylinder! I would wait and see if the clutch fluid disappears from the master before I go spending a bunch of money on a new clutch. But that's just me.

Good luck with this project Jacob. This is an easily repairable issue that almost everyone with a First or Second Gen. has had to deal with. If you are handy with tools, it can be done in a weekend. 

Keep asking questions, and we will help you get this sorted out.

Earl  

[Marcarl]

10 hours ago, Berdman said:

So, I resealed the slave cylinder. I have some resistance now. The inner seal looked good still, the outer seal was not the greatest. The only issue. Is I still don't seem to have clutch. Looks like I will be rebuilding the clutch now . I was watching a video on how to do it. Does anyone have any good aftermarket clutch kits or spring kits? I see the plates on ebay for 50 bucks. Anyone had any experience with them?

My question is: what exactly do you mean by the words: I still don't have a clutch?

It can go 2 ways: it either will not dis-engage or it slips when handle is released.

If it slips, then maybe you need to address the plates etc.

If it won't dis-engage, your problem is most likely in the hydrolic side

[saddlebum]

11 hours ago, skydoc_17 said:

 If you want to hear the "Long Version" of the pros and cons of the Barnett Clutch System ask, and I will explain it to you.t.

Earl  

Hey Earl @skydoc_17you got my attention on this one. Would love to hear your point of view. Always like to hear the pros and cons on things. Makes for informed decision making me thinks.

[Berdman]

21 hours ago, skydoc_17 said:

 

Thanks for the props!! Now Jacob, It would be easy to tell you that the Friction Discs on Ebay were made in China, but the more important point is the fact that new friction discs are NOT going to address the failed part in your clutch which is the Clutch Diaphragm Spring! There are two ways to go here, Switch to the Barnett Clutch System, (don't get me started on putting a 70's era clutch on a 21st century motorcycle!) or go with a heavy duty clutch diaphragm spring and upgrade the 1/2 friction disc in the rear of the clutch pac with a FULL disc. I offer a kit that provides the second option. That kit is in the Member Vendor's section of this forum.

Okay, I was looking through vendor section. can you link me to the correct topic? I couldn't find it. Not sure what vendor topic section you have it in.

[Berdman]

Okay, got home from work today. I bled the slave again. Still wouldn't disengage.
 

I popped off the clutch cover. I found that the clutch is functioning. But the disks seemed to be stuck together not allowing it to move freely. I took a screw driver and spread the friction plates apart. Was able to then get the clutch to disengage. So, after reviewing the caltric clutch kits on ebay. I am not going to use them. If I could find skydocs correct topic in vendors I will probably use them. Also, looking to get the Barnett spring conversion. It looks like the OEM Spring plate is around $80 and the conversion I can get for just slightly more.

I also learned....... Not a good idea to use dialectic grease to help slide the slave seal in (was only thing had laying around)..... Thought I was being smart not letting the new seal go in dry.... But I will probably have that fail prematurely now.

The oil I drained was black. It sat since at least 2016. So I assume that's why the clutch wouldnt release.

[Berdman]

27 minutes ago, Berdman said:

Okay, I was looking through vendor section. can you link me to the correct topic? I couldn't find it. Not sure what vendor topic section you have it in.

Heh! I found it. It looks like only the friction disks are offered? Any chance you have the other disks also? I don't need the spring, I believe the one on the bike now is the HD spring. It was fairly thick. it is still functioning well. But I think the Barnett upgrade would be better.