Is TCI going bad?

[Flyinfool]

The issue with unplugging everything and plugging it back in is that if it was corrosion in a connector you still do not know which one, and that bad connection WILL come visit again someday. There is nothing worse than an intermittent electrical issue that just goes away. If you actually fixed nothing then it is still there waiting to strike. Good luck with your upcoming ride. Pack some wire, misc terminals, crimper and basic hand tools just in case.

[SpencerPJ]

OK I found the threads from when I had my problem.

 

This is the thread where the issue first started while I was on the road.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?79093-I-did-not-make-it

 

This is the thread where I went through everything to find and fix it.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?79290-Hold-your-breath-I-m-goin-in&highlight=ground+wire

 

Great reads. If my issue comes back, I will do as you did, one by one. Interesting about the grounds in left fairing, My bike fell over (kickstand broke), gas gauge has not worked ever since, feeling it's a ground issue, and never did come across any threads that discussed the ground in the fairing. I had some dirty connections, everything is original. Nothing seemed broken or corroded, but every thing was dirty. my issue does seem to be similar as yours, but I really need to pay attention better. Thanks, I'll keep this posted. If I need to dig deeper, I'll need assistance

[Patch]

So to FlyingFool. Battery: I tested after my ride yesterday, at 12.88, 24 hrs after ride, no tender 12.68. I think that is acceptable? Charging while running, voltage climbs up to 14+ with hand held meter just revving, seemed normal operation, I did not record exact numbers. Riding the meter on the bike generally shows 14 riding, down to maybe 12.5 when sitting at a stop light. I probably don't need to put it on my tender, sometimes I'll run a few short errands, then it will sit for a week, then it gets ornery to start. Still with original 2 brush starter and original cables, I know, disappointing. I have added a ground, and acts acceptable under hot starts, has never failed me, and I have tested the fact that I can easily push start my warmed up bike

I probably should have it load tested, but then again, I probably should buy a new one.. I'm cheap too...

 

Patch: That schematic was simple enough for me.

 

Ignition coils

Cold= 3.8, 3.9, 3.8, 3.8

Hot after a 60 mile ride today = 4.1, 4.0, 3.9, 4.0

 

These numbers are high Spence. It is possible that they were replaced at some point/ or and, depending where the measurement was taken from say at the TCI connector??? there could be increased resistance in the wires feeding the coils or it may reflect coils being on the way out, hmm?

The readings are more what I would expect hot not cold. I'll explain it this way: even tho you measure the units while hot (after your run) they are not as hot as when voltage is running thru them (but anything else isn't practical). The higher the OHM's the higher the resistance, the higher the temperature climbs the lower the currant even if you have good voltage! But, if there is a voltage loss on top of this cause of corrosion the losses add up. That effects something called saturation and recharge time on what is basically a slow coil to begin with.

I will add this: If my memory serves, then the early TCI's required less then 3 OHM coils for protection against failing; they designed the circuit to mimic ignition points specs.

 

I am not willing to say this is the problem but their age is showing. Would you consider checking the secondary resistance? page 7-16

 

Pickup coils

Cold = 115, 116, 116, 116

Hot after 60 mile ride = 136.8, 142.3, 143.3, 143.4

 

These seem fine. See the hall sensors are very low voltage so again when these reading go high there is too little signal left for the TCI to read, meaning the TCI can't read the crank position.

So as stated, took it for a ride, rode it like I stole it.

No issues, rode great !

 

Did unplugging and re plugging every visible connection, find and correct a bad connection? Lets hope that is what happened

Is it waiting to fail on my 2 hr ride tomorrow?

Is it wait to fail when I'm in the country with no cell service. If so let it cool

 

I certainly will try and do a better job understanding exactly what happens with the tach, the dash, and all if it happens again.

Yes a better understanding of how it cuts out would be helpful.

 

Any other advise or things to watch for are welcomed, but until it acts up again, I don't know how I can troubleshoot. I will carry my meter and notes.

 

 

Not quite:think:

 

Have you ever read page 7-19 & 7-16?

When reading 7-19 consider how many times that relay has switched, and how hot it get up there. Just in case

 

Good Job Spence

[SpencerPJ]

Thanks Patch. Dang, I should have checked the relays when I had each one unplugged in my hand. I have often considered replacing them, especially the fuel pump one, I just could never figure out which one that was. I guess if I worked on following the schematics and wire colors I would figure it out.

My ignition coils, high? I did measure at the tci connection per the above pic you posted. I used a Harbor Freight free multimeter, if that could throw some % of error in the reading. I would say they are original, I bought the bike in 2012 at 20k miles, it now has 45k miles. I can do the ignition secondary check. Is it okay if I do it from the tci to the sparkplug boot? In reading, I see that I am terribly over do for new spark plugs (like I have 12k miles on my current ones)... Also in reading one of FlyingFools posts, seems that one of the red main wires that come off the battery power all this stuff. Seems years ago, I had an issue with a plug on one of those red wires, I will investigate that today as well. Thanks for holding my hand, it is much appreciated.

Edited August 30, 2020 by SpencerPJ

[Flyinfool]

All of your readings are a bit high.

Try measuring at the coil to see if you get the same readings. If you get a lower reading it would indicate that you have high resistance in the wires.

 

Do you have any resistors around to verify that your HF meter is at least reading in the ball park?

 

When you put the probes together what does the meter show? Whatever the meter shows is the resistance of the probes. This number must be subtracted from all measurements. For low readings like the ignition coils this little bit matters.

[SpencerPJ]

All of your readings are a bit high.

Try measuring at the coil to see if you get the same readings. I will look up there, but that wire is a whole lot harder to get to with my big paws. If you get a lower reading it would indicate that you have high resistance in the wires.

 

Do you have any resistors around to verify that your HF meter is at least reading in the ball park? Nope, I do not

When you put the probes together what does the meter show? best readings are: at 200, probes read 00.9 to 01.1, and 200 is what I measured the ignition coils with, so if I understand correct, that would make them closer to 3.0 or high 2s when cold, at 75 deg F.

 

Whatever the meter shows is the resistance of the probes. This number must be subtracted from all measurements. For low readings like the ignition coils this little bit matters.

 

temperamental thing, I breath and I swear they change, see above comments

[Patch]

By memory side stand is the 1st one on the left, and I think pump was the 4th? The good news is it is in chapter 7 for you model.

 

Testing: well I like the method you just perform on a bike this old. Like Fool just mentioned the next step for guys who enjoy this troubleshooting part of the game, we now have discovered a potential hidden/hard to find problem. So we want to subtract it!

Most know I suggest reading the voltage at the coils first thing, however, what I've realized over the years is that I and others know why and what to expect for what will read low. That however does not lay out the basics for understanding The Why's.

Put it to you's this way, if you now read the voltage at the coil instead of resistance and you find a lower than expected say 10V you know it is coming from that leg of the harness some 30 years on in its life! Its not always a connection, sometimes its the wire! So the way above is just another doorway in.

 

The above does not replace the impedance measures of the coils, the coils might be good yet the harness not be: the coils being a part of the larger picture!

 

Don't wish to get off track or complicate matters but, the magic happens when you dissever an unexpected reading's : there's a problem lets break it down moment and isolate it, and is what we mean by subtracting!

 

Testing the secondary: well in theory yes you should but because we may doubt the harness, have not yet subtracted it, not sure it is the best choice tho, The readings should be 13ish I would bold enough to say the difference in the harness would only matter if you were on the edge of passing them.

 

Fool your thread was the last of my reading last night, man trips like that eh, make our loved ones wonder why we do it

There was some good input can't remember the fellows name tho.

In the end which was the most likely cause? the black wire at the corner of the battery rack?

 

This thread will serve other for years to come

[Patch]

temperamental thing, I breath and I swear they change, see above comments

 

Time for a battery maybe in that meter?

This is why I prefer the automotive automatic meters, kind of like measuring voltage at many points over a bike or car, if we forget to monitor house voltage well where is the loss in the harness or the battery

[SpencerPJ]

Time for a battery maybe in that meter?

That would cost me more than the meter did. I'll look a it, maybe pitch it and go get a new free one, it's several years old.

 

Well, I'm headed for a ride, and to pick up some new plugs. Fingers crossed. That red wire connector, it was plugged together but not great, maybe another potential fix? I really should replace it, it's the one connected to a big fuse.

[SpencerPJ]

Went for 70 mile ride, no issues, so ??? I will add it is rather cool temps, mids 70s, so bike ran cool. I will post any further observations or concerns, or if I acts up again. Thanks

[Flyinfool]

Well I hope it is fixed and stays fixed.:fingers-crossed-emo:fingers-crossed-emo