Too much charging from the stator?? Or rectifier??

[Patch]

and the harder you shake to get more pennies out at one time the higher the amperage and the faster the piggy bank empties.

 

Sooo Patch, how much amperage did it take to empty your little brother's piggy bank eh?

I figure there had to be a reason you chose that analogy seeing as one tends to choose what comparison one understands best

 

 

Well didn't have a brother but I could tell you's a story about it however, I know it would make all you BIG BRUTS tear up!

 

lol

[Marcarl]

I figure there had to be a reason you chose that analogy seeing as one tends to choose what comparison one understands best

 

So it's like knocking down a steer then?? The more blood you let out the less voltage in the carcass?? Now I understand,,, thnx Bum.

[Patch]

So it's like knocking down a steer then?? The more blood you let out the less voltage in the carcass?? Now I understand,,, thnx Bum.

 

 

Leave to Carl to confuse us!

[Patch]

Wonder why @BIG TOM is missing all this fun?

[Dav]

Here is simple explanation without getting too technical. A volt meter and ammeter or amp meter work differently. voltmeter indicates the state of charge while an ammeter indicates the load placed on the electrical system. Take a very low battery for example. as it begins to charge voltage will be low increasing as it reaches full charge. On the other hand the ammeter will read high and drop off as the battery reaches full charge. Turn on additional accessories and the voltmeter will go down while the ammeter will go up. in simple terms the ammeter indicates the demand placed on the electrical system while the voltmeter indicates the available power to meet that demand.

 

Thanks Bum...that's a great explanation. where do I monitor the amps in this situation? I'm thinking it'd be pretty difficult on each of the white wires that attach to the R/R... All the amp meters I'm familiar with are kinda bulky...

 

Dave (Dav?)

[Dav]

IMHO,, another thing to easily check is whether or not you have AC sneaking thru to the battery leads.. You should be seeing DC there and an AC presence indicates a diode/rectifier issue.. Also,, if it were mine, due to the issues I have had with stators getting hot and slowly loosing resistance between the windings in the coils,, I would also check the regulators responsiveness both at cold start up and in a full on,, hot,, up to operating temps environment.. IMHO,, a "lazy" or slow to respond regulator in warmed up condition often indicates its new stator time regardless of how the stator ohm tests read.. You should see a consistant,, instant snap up in voltage when the R's cross 2 grandish.. Laziness there is a Murphy, 1000 miles from no where,, party waiting to happen..

 

So, Cowpuc....for the AC check....do I simply check the battery in AC mode to look for a particular reading??

I'll also check out what you said about the responsiveness ....I just installed a handlebar voltmeter. So, the instant snap up in voltage...is that when it's both cold start up AND full on hot??? Will my digital meter be responsive enough...or should i look for a analog meter??

 

Also Cowpuc....another question....this crazy bike only has 59,000 miles on it...barely broke in, right?? And I have to say, it's been pretty well taken care of....not ridden hard for LONG periods at a time ....mostly around town...short trips on the weekend...Aren't stators good for more miles than that?? I realize it's just an electrical component....and that's the weak link...electrical....but....your thoughts??

Don't forget my other questions as well.....LOL just sayin'....

Dave (Dav?)

Dave (Dav?)

Edited August 17, 2020 by Dav?

[Dav]

I understood voltage and amperage by equating it to a water system. Voltage is analagous to the water pressure and amperage is analagous to the water flow rate. With no demand you have full voltage in an electrical system and full pressure in a water supply system. When you start using the electricity, the amps go up and the voltage goes down comparable to a water system when the water is being used, the pressure goes down as the flow rate goes up. Helped me understand.

 

Interesting...I'll have to kick that around a bit ...read and re read...

 

Dave (Dav?)

[Dav]

NO NO GUYS, its like pennies, the battery is the piggy bank, shaking the pennies out is the consumption of amperage!

 

 

I never was able to have a piggy bank with anything in it....I was a little brother with lots of older brothers and sisters....

[Dav]

So it's like knocking down a steer then?? The more blood you let out the less voltage in the carcass?? Now I understand,,, thnx Bum.

 

 

Now I can understand THAT!! more blood.... lighter to carry home....

[saddlebum]

Thanks Bum...that's a great explanation. where do I monitor the amps in this situation? I'm thinking it'd be pretty difficult on each of the white wires that attach to the R/R... All the amp meters I'm familiar with are kinda bulky...

 

Dave (Dav?)

Not sure why you would want to bother, since as long as your voltmeter stays above 12.5 with everything on the bike turned on your charging system and battery are keeping up. If not then you either have a weak charging system and/or battery or your just running too many accessories, but since you do.

 

There are various types of ammeters, the simplest set up is a direct ammeter. It will indicate "0" in the middle of the scale and the numbers increase in either direction. one direction indicating amount of acc. draw or discharge the other direction indicating amount of battery draw or charging. They come in various load sizes for example 50-0-50 or 100-0-100. Disconnect all wires from your positive post. now connect only the heavy wire from your starter solenoid and a wire from one post of the ammeter to the positive post (10 ga recommended). Now all the remaining wires will connect to the other post of the ammeter. The needle will read to one side or the the other side of zero depending on currant flow. If the battery is charging the needle will go in one direction indicating the amps drawn by the battery while recharging. The lower the state of the battery the more it will draw and the higher the reading. as it reaches full charge the ammeter will move closer to zero. How high the ammeter reads is also affected by the number of acc. you turn on but as long as the needle stays to the one side of the zero your battery is charging and keeping up with the load demand. If the needle goes to the other side of the zero your acc. are drawing more than your battery can manage and you are now reading the amount the battery is discharging. If you turn acc. on with the bike not running you will a larger discharge than if the bike is running. Fire the bike up and the indicated amount of amps discharging will go down the needle moving closer to zero. ideally you want the needle to move to the opposite side of zero once the bike is running indicating the battery and charging system is keeping up with demand. If not you either have too many acc. drawing power or the battery and charging system is weak and cannot keep up with the demand. In this setup starter draw does not come into play since it will draw more than the ammeter is designed for and this is why the solenoid heavy wire is connected directly to the battery. You could get a higher reading ammeter but then you would give up a level of sensitivity. Ideally you want an ammeter with a scale high enough to handle most of the currant used by the bike including max battery draw while charging but not including the starter draw and low enough to be as sensitive as possible to minor fluctuations.

 

Now from the above basic set up you can get more sophisticated ones that use induction pickups and even very accurate digital ones that will read put both volts and amps. Picture is of basic gauge the amazon link is an example of a digital one.

https://www.amazon.ca/Battery-Monitor-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Transformer/dp/B07D35MFBQ/ref=asc_df_B07D35MFBQ/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292965357502&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2946946082963120748&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000858&hvtargid=pla-552976227978&psc=1

Edited August 17, 2020 by saddlebum

[BIG TOM]

Wonder why BIG TOM is missing all this fun?

Because I don't have a clue what you guys are talking about ?? I am confused, very very confused....my piggy bank is empty and I ain't got no steer. And when Carl starts a speechafying I well, you know......????????????????????????????????????????????????

[videoarizona]

Gentlemen,

 

Is this thread getting away from the problem...?

 

Dave, here is a low cost meter that is also a clamp meter that can measure the amps of any DC or AC circuit. Charging or load. It's easy to use and dependable.

 

https://www.sears.com/craftsman-cm/p-A028382415

 

 

You've received a ton of advice. My worry is are you able to follow all this. Without knowing your knowledge base in AC/DC systems...I have to ask that question.

A typical meter. like what you have, can only read part of the information needed to diagnose an electrical problem. A clamp style meter that reads amperage is needed for the rest. The above little meter will do both.

 

So when the piggy bank allows, order the above (or one like it) and go back through these posts. Do the tests one at a time and write the results down.

When done either you have found the problem or not. If not...let us know. I'm not the electrical expert on this forum, far from it. But I've learned a great deal about bike electrical systems from the guys and gals here. So don't get discouraged....and don't shotgun your approach to the problem. One thing at a time then go to the next. Do the diagnosis in the order the service manual does...there is a reason for their thinking. Service manual available on this site...

 

Hope this helps,

david

[cowpuc]

So, Cowpuc....for the AC check....do I simply check the battery in AC mode to look for a particular reading? Exactly,, just like checking the voltage on your battery looking for 12vdc (DC voltage) and DC Voltage output from your regulator to your battery only in this case, move the setting knob on your meter over to AC voltage instead of DC Voltage..

I'll also check out what you said about the responsiveness ....I just installed a handlebar voltmeter. So, the instant snap up in voltage...is that when it's both cold start up AND full on hot absolutrely!! A small bonus tip: Remember that digital vlt/ohm meters are highly sensitive and will read 12vdc on a battery even if the battery is almost in a dead state of charge so do not be fooled by seeing 12vdc when you take this test,, what you are looking for is an immediate, quick response as you raise the R's and the regulator switches on,, remember that electrically speaking - the regulator is in fact a switch - its either on or off and when it switches on the response you see on your meter should be instant,, not lazy..??? Will my digital meter be responsive enough...or should i look for a analog meters Your digital meter is the ultimate in responsiveness,, even the slightest changes in voltage will easily be noted??

 

Also Cowpuc....another question....this crazy bike only has 59,000 miles on it...barely broke in, right actually that is only as good of a statement as the maintenance that the bike has recieved in its life,, in the case of stator life lets say,, if the oil that cools the stator has been allowed to over cook,, not be swapped out to keep it clean and full and on and on, just that alone will cut down on stator life as well as other things. I have personally worked on bikes that would fall into the category we are talking about that should have been barely broken in at 59K but were totally destroyed with less than 5000 miles on them ?? And I have to say, it's been pretty well taken care of....not ridden hard for LONG periods at a time ....mostly around town...short trips on the weekend...Aren't stators good for more miles than that see above?? I realize it's just an electrical component....and that's the weak link...electrical....but....your thoughts my thoughts on this are the electrical system on our Yams are/were wayyyy under built. Back when Mom Yam created the 1st Gen Mk1's (the bikes that I have personally occumulated over 1 million miles on over the course of decades of riding them in the process of wearing out 6 of them - not saying this to brag, simply stating this in an effort to prove my validness in getting to make these claims) the stator was not only wayyy under spec for what it was required to do, it was also wayyyyy under protected from early demise.. Literally,, from the moment the bike came up to operating temps the stator windings were cooking and self destructing.. While Mom Yam did in fact realise the error of her ways fairly early on and developed an "up date" for this cooling of the coils issue with a splatter plate to force oil over the coils she DID NOT do a recall on the system in an effort to support her creation - she left this up to the customers.. Moving forward from this, the stator did perform better BUT the output of the stator was never changed to support the load put upon it (which is what creates the cooked windings in the first place) so stator life remained an issue all the way up.. I would also like to add here that Mom Yam totally failed in the 2nd gear issue too,,, ALL the early bikes were doomed with this malidy and NONE of those bikes were repaired under a recall.. I am not complaining about any of this though as these,, and other issues, are what caused the bikes low sales voluum and ultimately made their used bike value extremely low.. Matter of fact (truth matters), I took total advantage of this very point and was able to aquire all my 1st Gens for $1000 or less and ride them out - even with no second gear, to well over 200k miles each of my own miles (not including the miles that were already on each bike).. Would have sucked to have been someone who spent big money on them though and been one to have takin the beating of depreciation from initial investment IMHO ??

Don't forget my other questions as well did I nail em Dav? feel free to ask more but remember you are getting response from a geezer who who always has been, and still is 100% pure back yard mechanicism at best .....LOL just sayin'....

Dave (Dav?)

Dave (Dav?)

 

Hello again Dav? Hopefully you find something above that is useful.. I also am including below another one of my endless YouTube vids that you may,, or may not, find useful,, or at least entertaining.. Take a peek when you have some time with nothing else to spend it on

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by cowpuc