1986 1300 Fuel Issue

[LOWRD]

I bought this 1986 Venture Royale with the 1300 cc motor that wouldn't start. The previous owner is an auto mechanic and he replaced the fuel line from the petcock to the fuel filter because it was corroded but he didn't replace the fuel filter. I thought at first it was the fuel pump as the on my 83 Venture clicked a few times indicating that it was priming the fuel line to the carbs so I switched the two and the 86 worked as it should on the 83. I checked the relay as well and it was working good. I took off the line that runs from the fuel pump to the carbs, turned the key and it pushed the fuel through priming the system and made the clicking sounds. Before that i left the line on the carbs turned the key and no clicking that would indicate the line is primed. The only way the bike will fire up is with adding fuel to each of the carb tops. I have inspected the lines that deliver the fuel to each of the four carbs and they are clear of debris. I'm about to pull the fuel line to the carbs and see if the fuel is being pumped from the fuel pump when cranking the engine over.

If anyone has an idea as I've checked all electrical as well and it's come to the fuel to the carbs...

[MiCarl]

Instead of pulling off the fuel line open some carburetor drain screws. If the pump runs and fuel drains you can go straight to cleaning up the carburetors.

[Patch]

I bought this 1986 Venture Royale with the 1300 cc motor that wouldn't start. The previous owner is an auto mechanic and he replaced the fuel line from the petcock to the fuel filter because it was corroded but he didn't replace the fuel filter. I thought at first it was the fuel pump as the on my 83 Venture clicked a few times indicating that it was priming the fuel line to the carbs so I switched the two and the 86 worked as it should on the 83. I checked the relay as well and it was working good. I took off the line that runs from the fuel pump to the carbs, turned the key and [it pushed the fuel through priming the system and made the clicking sounds.] Before that i left the line on the carbs turned the key and no clicking that would indicate the line is primed. The only way the bike will fire up is with adding fuel to each of the carb tops. I have inspected the lines that deliver the fuel to each of the four carbs and they are clear of debris.

 

I'm about to pull the fuel line to the carbs and see if the fuel is being pumped from the fuel pump when cranking the engine over.

 

If anyone has an idea as I've checked all electrical as well and it's come to the fuel to the carbs...

 

Try a bypass at the petcock.

Are you in the Calgary area?

[LOWRD]

Instead of pulling off the fuel line open some carburetor drain screws. If the pump runs and fuel drains you can go straight to cleaning up the carburetors.

Yes I was thinking the same thing to make there’s fuel in the bowls as I can see it’s clearing flowing from the the pump. I’ll do that tonight after the work day and see what comes of it thanks 😊

[Patch]

OP sent these off to me tonight so post on his behalf..

[luvmy40]

That almost looks like someone was running 2 stroke oil in the fuel.

 

Dirty 2 stroke oil.

[BlueChips84]

Someone was using gas with ethanol! I only ever use premium 94 gas since it will not have the ethanol in it which will attract water and do that to carbs if they sit. Check the label on the pump and make sure it doesn't say "may contain up to x% ethanol".

 

How long was the bike sitting for?

[Patch]

94 octane: the higher rating of octane has to do with compression, the more you have the higher the octane. Compression produces heat so the higher octane keeps the ignition in time meaning that the ignition duration (flame) meets the crank timing - which varies depending on RPM (advance and crank angles),

Of course running the bikes/engine is always up to the owner/pilot, but, you will see a preference loss, in that less of the ratio will be consumed in time so, out the exhaust it goes.

[BlueChips84]

94 octane: the higher rating of octane has to do with compression, the more you have the higher the octane. Compression produces heat so the higher octane keeps the ignition in time meaning that the ignition duration (flame) meets the crank timing - which varies depending on RPM (advance and crank angles),

Of course running the bikes/engine is always up to the owner/pilot, but, you will see a preference loss, in that less of the ratio will be consumed in time so, out the exhaust it goes.

 

Believe me, I understand that at the compression ratio on these bikes it is a waste octane wise. I was suggesting 94 since here in Ontario and I assume other areas as well, 87 and 89 octane fuels pretty much always have ethanol blended in. Usually the 92 and 94 will be ethanol free which will be easier on the carbs and especially the rubber within. I tore apart the carbs on my parts bike which was clearly run with ethanol blend gas and the rubber stoppers on the Jets were crumbling and hard, as well as some other rubber hoses in contact with fuel.

 

Using the ethanol free fuels, I have never had trouble starting a small engine or bike after an extended time although i usually run the carbs dry before storage each year as well.

 

An ounce of prevention....

[CaseyJ955]

I successfully run 85 oct in both my V4s, usually I'll go premium or the lowest grade does not have ethanol. Often our mid grade fuels are tainted with ethanol but premium or regular often are pure gasoline. I've seen 0 advantages to running premium in either my Venture of Vmax outside of ethanol avoidance.

 

Float levels for Vmax but exactly the same spec for Venture.

http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prody11.html

 

If you end up needing carb parts stick with OEM or K&L. Skip the discounted ebay stuff!

Be careful handling the slides, they are brittle and expensive.

 

It might need not much more than cleaning out the corn squeezings, reassembly and synchronization.

 

I effen hate ethanol!

[cowpuc]

When I was a young lop eared grease monkey varmint who had no clue (still dont) about any of this I used to goof around with octane differences in fuels and ignition timing in my cars.. I was always amazed by performance differences between OEM ignition timing/octane specs and the gains I would see in performance just by advancing (moving timing away from TDC) my ignition timing to the point that it would just start pinging and back er off a degree or two to keep er from self destructing,, soooo much fun in those early days.. Wish modern machines all came with programmable tuners like HD got fined for selling cause I miss those old days..

Like @Casey955,, I have ran 85 octane in my V-4's all over America CTFW 2 up and fully loaded,, especially out west where it is plentiful and never ever had an issue one with it and remember - the early Yam V-4's I/we have been running for hundreds of thousands of miles are a 10.5 to 1 compression motor fully capable of turning 12's in the quarter with absolutely no issues.. From this I have a hunch that there are gains to be made in performance on our V-4's just by tossing some advance at it like days of yesteryear as I have a hunch that those engineers at Yamaha retarded the ignition some to allow for low octane fuel usage..

Also,, looking at the ugly pics of the carb having sit wayyyy to long,,, I have seen similar in 2 strokes indeed but I have also seen similar in 4 strokes that have been stored to long with heavy doses of SeaFoam/other fuel stabilizers. Gasoline will evaporate off over time no matter how much its doped up IMHO..

[Patch]

in case some of this octane discussion seems confusing...

The optimum expansion of the charge would be as close as possible to TDC (top dead center)

But because fuel "ignition" and "duration" (time taken to achieve full combust/expansion) can not be achieved at optimum crank angles we advance the timing to get as close as we can to near full expansion pressures at TDC: so, that is refereed to as ignition duration which follows - ignition system spark timing - or in other words provide enough time for the ratios full ignition/burn to take place as close to TDC . (the ignition timing is measured at(crank angle)

The completeness of the combustion cycle is measured (actually amused) in % of efficiency meaning 80 plus % aiming for a 100% is the goal but, those goal posts move (sob's).

Instead what most do (for street performance) is tune for the best averages. For track tho we aim for peek performance on a dyno where we tune that timing advance in that Puc mentioned. But the more we advance the quicker we need to hit that tuned RPM range as the timing advance will cost us in low end torque output because,the crank angle settings are for larger air/fuel flows and, once inertia is in play so,less of a torque graph is acceptable tho not desirable.

 

For long distance bikes we need compromise between getting the load moving quick enough, keeping our available tongue responsive in the 4500 to 7ish ranges and when cruising in 5th to lower RPM enough for range of tank. The best way I know to view this is going back to the basics referring to the engines as air/fuel pumps; the higher the RPM the faster the pumping draws in air, the more fuel it consumes: that is because of the air/fuel ratios and the losses in efficiencies measured in %'s, caused by Timing (crank angles) air/fuel Ignition and duration (of course there are other losses to consider)

 

There is this one little thing I nag about, know the engines compression before tuning it. Without proper compression and the heat generated by it, your tuning is less than a fair guess at best. If the compression is low it may be correctable, if your compression is too high it too may be correctable, but it is never ignorable.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Patch