Very thought invoking article on covid-19

[saddlebum]

I stumbled on this article and found it really does make you think.

 

https://www.wired.com/story/larry-brilliant-on-how-well-are-we-fighting-covid-19/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[RandyR]

Thanks. An excellent article that everyone should consider reading.

[Marcarl]

Makes a lot of sense. Perhaps there is one individual who knows what he is talking about and lays it out so that we can deal with it. The question that remains, will his advise be followed.

[uncledj]

Interesting / informative read. Looks like it can have some REALLY deadly effects. I just don't understand why I still don't know anyone who's been sick from it. Seems like everyone I talk to knows someone, or knows someone who knows someone who's had it.

I'm down here in Myrtle Beach for a few days, and there are mask requirements, and threats of fines, but I'd say only about half the folks are wearing them. I'll put mine on if required to enter a facility, then notice that I'm one of about 3 people wearing one, so I'll take it off....can't breathe well in those things. Sanitize hands when I think I need to, try to keep my distance when appropriate, and try to enjoy life.

Crazy times we're livin' in.

[saddlebum]

Interesting / informative read. Looks like it can have some REALLY deadly effects. I just don't understand why I still don't know anyone who's been sick from it. Seems like everyone I talk to knows someone, or knows someone who knows someone who's had it.

 

I would say be thankful you don't, I know I am, because sadly the world is full of people who I am sure wish they could say the same thing.

[crichens]

I read this article this morning. His insight should be heard by everyone who still thinks that COVID19 is one big hoax.

[saddlebum]

I read this article this morning. His insight should be heard by everyone who still thinks that COVID19 is one big hoax.

 

The home My mother is in had 3 cases and the military had to come in to clean up as it was brought in by outside workers and could have been a lot worse had the administrative staff not been on the ball and jumped on it from the begining. In Hamilton an entire home was infected, 3 people died and all residents had to be evacuated to any available hospital space in the city, because the administrators did not take this threat seriously. Hoax?? This has gone to far for anyone to even consider the word hoax at this point.

[uncledj]

[luvmy40]

I read this article this morning. His insight should be heard by everyone who still thinks that COVID19 is one big hoax.

 

I don't know anyone who thinks COVID19 is a hoax. The hoax is in how the U.S. Left Wing, has politicized and weaponized it to sabotage our economy and are constantly changing the story to suite their needs at the moment.

 

You do realize that the idiots that have been condeming Trump for not wearing a mask when everyone around him is under intense scrutiny from a medical standpoint and are now screaming "hypocrasy!" at him when he masked up for a hospital visit are the same people who told us anyone who wore a mask was an idiot and didn't understand the science when this all first became a major news story, right?

 

The virus is not a hoax, our politics are the hoax.

[uncledj]

Best cease and desist right there.

Edited July 14, 2020 by uncledj

[Sylvester]

Won't come up on my computer.

 

[saddlebum]

I don't know anyone who thinks COVID19 is a hoax. The hoax is in how the U.S. Left Wing, has politicized and weaponized it to sabotage our economy and are constantly changing the story to suite their needs at the moment.

 

You do realize that the idiots that have been condeming Trump for not wearing a mask when everyone around him is under intense scrutiny from a medical standpoint and are now screaming "hypocrasy!" at him when he masked up for a hospital visit are the same people who told us anyone who wore a mask was an idiot and didn't understand the science when this all first became a major news story, right?

 

The virus is not a hoax, our politics are the hoax.

I think a large part of the so called hypocrisy has more to do with how little was understood about the virus and the initial thought was to wear a mask to protect oneself. In which case wearing a mask unless it is custom fitted would be useless. The reason being air will always take the path of least resistance so any air you inhale will go in through gaps between the face and the mask rather than through the restrictive material of the mask and this why many and not just in the USA have initially said wearing a mask is pointless. The reason for the change on the the use of masks has to do more with the fact that we now know that the virus can spread as much as 10 days before symptoms appear so the case for wearing the mask has more to do with protecting those around you in case you had it but where unaware of it. We now know which we did not in the beginning that if you did have it a simple conversation while being to close can spread it and a sneeze or cough can send the virus as much as 12 feet though the air. It is also begining to look like it could be air born as well. This is why the about face on the idea of wearing the mask. Not to protect the wearer of the mask but to slow down the spread by preventing individuals who may be unaware they have it from infecting others. I for one would hate to suddenly find out I accidently infected my 92 year old mother because I refused to wear a mask. Edited July 15, 2020 by saddlebum

[Argo]

I think a large part of the so called hypocrisy has more to do with how little was understood about the virus and the initial thought was to wear a mask to protect oneself. In which case wearing a mask unless it is custom fitted would be useless. The reason being air will always take the path of least resistance so any air you inhale will go in through gaps between the face and the mask rather than through the restrictive material of the mask and this why many and not just in the USA have initially said wearing a mask is pointless. The reason for the change on the the use of masks has to do more with the fact that we now know that the virus can spread as much as 10 days before symptoms appear so the case for wearing the mask has more to do with protecting those around you in case you had it but where unaware of it. We now know which we did not in the beginning that if you did have it a simple conversation while being to close can spread it and a sneeze or cough can send the virus as much as 12 feet though the air. It is also begining to look like it could be air born as well. This is why the about face on the idea of wearing the mask. Not to protect the wearer of the mask but to slow down the spread by preventing individuals who may be unaware they have it from infecting others. I for one would hate to suddenly find out I accidently infected my 92 year old mother because I refused to wear a mask.

 

My main issues with all of this are:

1. The seemingly lack of common sense. By both news media and public officials.

2. The misinformation in the widely watched and read public news media.

3. The lack of credible, fact based information put out by various sources.

4. The political finger pointing and subversive agendas to control the population by fear and coercion.

 

Not trying to start an argument or a debate, but just to point out the lack of logic, common sense and truth being reported by the media (both news and social) that is so widespread.

Points to consider:

A. Lack of consistency of reporting the true cause of death. Seems like every death is caused by covid-19.

B. The fact that people can and do test positive (from a valid test) and had very mild cases or never had any symptoms at all.

C. It seems as though the vast majority of deaths reported to be caused by covid-19 are individuals that have one or more underlying medical conditions that weaken their immune systems.

Covid-19 is the proverbial straw.

D. The seemingly lack of testing and use of various non-conventional therapies. Both for treatment and prevention.

 

Here is where logic comes into play.

It was reported early on that the covid-19 virus was airborne.

That being said, it means that it doesn't spread just by touch, coughing or sneezing. It can be put into the air just by breathing.

The virus itself is very small, 0.12 microns.

N95 masks protect down to 0.1 microns, but with only 95% efficiency, which is where it gets its name.

Even wearing one of these medical grade masks you are not totally protected. That would be one, but not the only, reason that medical professionals have become infected.

So the masks that everyone is wearing on their faces are not really doing anything given the materials and the fact that they are not even close to being sealed to the face.

The air that is being breathed in and out will always take the path of least resistance.

 

I admit that I am not an expert and haven't read and studied everything there is about this. Just about impossible for an individual to that.

But from what I have seen, there are some valid reasons that a truly effect vaccine hasn't been developed for these types of viruses.

The main one being that by the time a vaccine is developed, run through test trials, produced in sufficient quantities and then distributed the original virus has mutated or another virus comes about and the vaccine is useless.

 

This is where "herd immunity" comes into play. Herd immunity can be reached when a sufficient number of people in the population have recovered from a disease and have developed antibodies against future infection. For example, those who survived the 1918 flu (influenza) pandemic were later immune to infection with the H1N1 flu, a subtype of influenza A. During the 2009-10 flu season, H1N1 caused the respiratory infection in humans that was commonly referred to as swine flu.

This is why these types of infections run out of people to infect and eventually "burn themselves out".

 

A real plan of action would be one where the most vulnerable segment of the population is protected as much as possible from being infected.

The healthy population, who have no risk factors and if they contract the illness may experience no symptoms or at the very worst the equivalent to a bad case of the flu should not be restricted in movement, gathering or required to wear masks.

These are the people who will have contact with it and build the herd immunity the best and fastest.

 

More testing naturally means more cases.

Because of the lack of any testing early on, we do not know when these now positive individuals were infected.

They could have been infected back in March for all anyone knows.

 

Unfortunately, the "cure" being forced upon our country's economy is going to be worse than impact of the disease itself.

 

Argo

[cowpuc]

My main issues with all of this are:

1. The seemingly lack of common sense. By both news media and public officials.

2. The misinformation in the widely watched and read public news media.

3. The lack of credible, fact based information put out by various sources.

4. The political finger pointing and subversive agendas to control the population by fear and coercion.

 

Not trying to start an argument or a debate, but just to point out the lack of logic, common sense and truth being reported by the media (both news and social) that is so widespread.

Points to consider:

A. Lack of consistency of reporting the true cause of death. Seems like every death is caused by covid-19.

B. The fact that people can and do test positive (from a valid test) and had very mild cases or never had any symptoms at all.

C. It seems as though the vast majority of deaths reported to be caused by covid-19 are individuals that have one or more underlying medical conditions that weaken their immune systems.

Covid-19 is the proverbial straw.

D. The seemingly lack of testing and use of various non-conventional therapies. Both for treatment and prevention.

 

Here is where logic comes into play.

It was reported early on that the covid-19 virus was airborne.

That being said, it means that it doesn't spread just by touch, coughing or sneezing. It can be put into the air just by breathing.

The virus itself is very small, 0.12 microns.

N95 masks protect down to 0.1 microns, but with only 95% efficiency, which is where it gets its name.

Even wearing one of these medical grade masks you are not totally protected. That would be one, but not the only, reason that medical professionals have become infected.

So the masks that everyone is wearing on their faces are not really doing anything given the materials and the fact that they are not even close to being sealed to the face.

The air that is being breathed in and out will always take the path of least resistance.

 

I admit that I am not an expert and haven't read and studied everything there is about this. Just about impossible for an individual to that.

But from what I have seen, there are some valid reasons that a truly effect vaccine hasn't been developed for these types of viruses.

The main one being that by the time a vaccine is developed, run through test trials, produced in sufficient quantities and then distributed the original virus has mutated or another virus comes about and the vaccine is useless.

 

This is where "herd immunity" comes into play. Herd immunity can be reached when a sufficient number of people in the population have recovered from a disease and have developed antibodies against future infection. For example, those who survived the 1918 flu (influenza) pandemic were later immune to infection with the H1N1 flu, a subtype of influenza A. During the 2009-10 flu season, H1N1 caused the respiratory infection in humans that was commonly referred to as swine flu.

This is why these types of infections run out of people to infect and eventually "burn themselves out".

 

A real plan of action would be one where the most vulnerable segment of the population is protected as much as possible from being infected.

The healthy population, who have no risk factors and if they contract the illness may experience no symptoms or at the very worst the equivalent to a bad case of the flu should not be restricted in movement, gathering or required to wear masks.

These are the people who will have contact with it and build the herd immunity the best and fastest.

 

More testing naturally means more cases.

Because of the lack of any testing early on, we do not know when these now positive individuals were infected.

They could have been infected back in March for all anyone knows.

 

Unfortunately, the "cure" being forced upon our country's economy is going to be worse than impact of the disease itself.

 

Argo

 

:sign yeah that:

 

MY NEW MANTRA = "TRUTH MATTERS"!!

 

Living here in the land of the free and living thru these recent attacks by globalist and socialist who have the intent of forcing our great republic (speaking of the U.S.A.) onto a sinking ship they call a better way of life, has taught me something - that being that they will stop at nothing to bring down and erase from existence any remaining knowledge of this great land of freedom = freedoms last chance..

With that said and totally believing the above to be the case,, anytime I set out to read an article that has the potential for being politically charged and/or have political motivation, I ALWAYS investigate where it came from, who is writing it and what type of organization backs it..

Having done so with this article, I discovered that it's basic foundation is born right out of Frisco, an area of the U.S. that is very well known for its extreme socialist, Anti-America stands and firm leanings to turn our country into a Socialistic society.. I also found that "Wired",, the Website which hosted the interview, is also of the same denomination of which I completely find repulsive from a political standpoint..

Being one to believe in fairness though and in a bold attempt to remain open minded concerning the article itself,,, I did actually read the complete interview.. While there were some interesting points made indeed that may hold some truths,, there were also some political swipes made against my country and her POTUS that I must take issue with. Lets start here:

 

direct copy/paste from interview:

 

Because we pulled out of the World Health Organization?

We haven’t pulled out of the World Health Organization. [laughs] It’s not even clear how you pull out of the World Health Organization. Distancing ourselves is probably a better word. It just makes us look like clowns. WHO is stronger than ever. The rest of the world has rallied to its side. The Trump Administration was not in the meetings where WHO was raising $8 to $12 billion just to help plan for the vaccination program. America’s money has been replaced by other countries donating it. And with it will come the inevitable soft power that comes with funding.

 

The readers of the interview were never told about WHY our President and his Admin chose to not attend the meetings.. In fair play and in helping those here in the club who did take the time to read the article understand why he made that choice for America, I now implore you to do the same with the video I post below and view it with an open mind.. In it, our President explains why he made that decision.. I believe that anyone who has read the article now owes it to themselves to also give our President a chance to explain.. I could attempt to explain it all but truly believe it best to hear this from the horses mouth:

 

[Woody]

this could get heated so be careful, because it could be very interesting reading also. my thoughts Truth Matters and always has I like it Puc.

Argo you said so much I can't agree or disagree on all of it

Saddlebum, I agree but for the people that says the mask makes it hard to breath doesn't that mean it is sealing and is doing some filtering going in but the filtering when breathing out is just as if not more important.

Hoax, there are some people here where I work kept saying it was all political and just a hoax and we have some that put their mask on when they get out of bed each day but I guess I am kind of in the middle. I do believe and I do take more caution and wash my hands more than I ever have I believe we need to do what we can to slow the spread so the medical community and resources are not over whelmed with to many at one time.

my coworkers have calmed the negative talk down some because we had one person test positive and five people went out with symptoms and three out of five tested positive so we can trace how and when that one person infected the others it is very contagious.

sorry for being so long but just voicing my thoughts, I believe the social distancing, wearing of the mask and personal hygiene will make a difference.

[Skid]

The Left has made it political when they figured they could use Covid 19 as a tool to derail the strong Trump economy. It is real, but over rated by the Left in an attempt to destroy our country.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saddlebum]

this could get heated so be careful, because it could be very interesting reading also. my thoughts Truth Matters and always has I like it Puc.

Argo you said so much I can't agree or disagree on all of it

Saddlebum, I agree but for the people that says the mask makes it hard to breath doesn't that mean it is sealing and is doing some filtering going in but the filtering when breathing out is just as if not more important.

Hoax, there are some people here where I work kept saying it was all political and just a hoax and we have some that put their mask on when they get out of bed each day but I guess I am kind of in the middle. I do believe and I do take more caution and wash my hands more than I ever have I believe we need to do what we can to slow the spread so the medical community and resources are not over whelmed with to many at one time.

my coworkers have calmed the negative talk down some because we had one person test positive and five people went out with symptoms and three out of five tested positive so we can trace how and when that one person infected the others it is very contagious.

sorry for being so long but just voicing my thoughts, I believe the social distancing, wearing of the mask and personal hygiene will make a difference.

Well put and I am not trying to stir the pot here, I am just genuinely concerned for all those at risk of catching this thing. No one has ever said that any of the solutions were perfect because we all know they are not but from what I ca gather, they do help to some degree in our attempts to slow this thing down to a manageable level and every little step does help. I also agree that at times its seems futile to try to develop a vaccine for something that may die off or mutate into something else by the time a vaccine is developed, but we cannot just sit on our hands either. Sure there are examples of viruses that just ran their course and died out but there are just as many examples of disease that have been stopped due to vaccines.

 

Looking at world wide situation, countries who have taken steps to reduce the spread regardless of the level of effectiveness, have been managing to bring their numbers down and flattening the curve were areas that just throw caution to the wind are actually rising and increasing the curve. I also agree what we hear in the media is never the clearest of truths and that is pretty much all media regardless of which way they lean left or right, both tend to push their own agenda. This why my initail post says Food For Thought. But we cannot just stick our heads in the sand and ignore all media info either, we need to read both side and rationalize what we read if we can. It is a bit of a catch 22.

 

Right now according to what I have read, the USA makes up approx 4% of the world population yet holds 26% of the worlds infection numbers and the innocent number of lives lost are more than 3 times the number of Brave American lives lost in the Vietnam war, with the covid curve rising at a scary rate. If I was an American living in the US I would be really afraid and taking what ever little steps possible even if they only help a little. I have a lot of Family besides the VR family living in the states and I seriously worry every day about all of them. I know I sound less than optimistic and would love more than anything to be wrong in my thoughts or fears and see this thing just suddenly run its course and die off but for now, waste of time or not I am willing to do whatever it takes no matter how insignificant in hopes of reducing the spread and rate of infection of this invisible monster.

 

Regardless of how you feel, or what you believe, at the end of the day, I hope you all stay healthy and I look forward to the day we can put this all behind us and once again enjoy the camaraderie and togetherness we have shared in the past. Plus it is so much more fun to harass VR members in person than on line.

 

Love you all stay safe stay healthy

Edited July 16, 2020 by saddlebum

[bpate4home]

Quite frankly the numbers posted are also skewed and in some cases completely falsified. Acquaintances of ours at church told my wife just yesterday that they went to be tested because a family member they had seen ~2 weeks earlier tested positive. They went to a testing station, filled out the paperwork but had to leave prior to getting swabbed because the wait was so long. They were told to come back the next day and they would be moved to the front of the line. They went back and were told their test was positive. They had not even been swabbed for a test. I don't know what they did but I would have called every single TV/Radio show if it happened to me just to expose the scam.

 

A Politician's medical reference on a recent televised announcement/interview (I believe for Cook County, IL - Chicago) said very clearly that if you test positive for COVID and "die of an alternate cause then you would be classified as a COVID death". I am trying to find the original but here is a narrated version https://www.facebook.com/lesa.fisherpatten/videos/3151129788277372.

 

Everyone knows the Virus is real, not everyone knows or wants to believe the numbers are what is fake. They are substantially so if you extrapolate this out. I've listed before what happened to my own family in Ohio when my aunt died.

[bpate4home]

[luvmy40]

The numbers being put out by the MSM are all inflated or deflated to suite the narrative of Orange Man Bad and COVID 19 is all Trump's fault.

 

Several organizations in several states have been busted for reporting not just inflated numbers of positive tests, but out right lying. 9.4% positive reported as 98% and the like.

 

One of my coworkers had their father placed in hospice recently. He tested negative on entry and was expected to pass from long term illness within a few days. He was tested at the time of his death about a week later and was positive for COVID19. They listed his death as COVID related.

 

Another coworker told me his SIL had taken his grand daughter to the doctor for an ear infection. They listed her as COVID positive without ever testing her. When questioned about it, the nurse told him that they could list her as COVID positive because she had an elevated temperature and they get more money for COVID cases.

 

The same coworker's wife ran into the testing scam as mentioned above. She was mandated to be tested by her employer, they scheduled the test but the line was so long they had to leave before testing. When rescheduling, she was informed that she had tested positive and it had been reported to her employer.

 

I know only one person who was legitimatley positive and he is in his 60's in relatively good heath other wise and was completely asymptomatic.

 

The true numbers show that while infection rates may be up, serious symptoms and deaths due to COVID19 are down accross the board.

 

The places hit worst in the U.S. are almost all large metropolitan areas in states that had the ridiculous idea to mandate that nursing homes were forced to take in all COVID positive cases and it spread like wild fire through the elderly population and decimated them. The New York Times reported that more than 40% of COVID deaths are linked to nursing homes.

Edited July 16, 2020 by luvmy40
spelling typos

[saddlebum]

No doubt there will always be some form of manipulation from some person or special interest group trying to take advantage of any situation. But you can't just close the door on it either. And that is always the worst thing about any tragedy or disaster. And yes there will always be mistakes made, the more that are involved the more the mistakes.

 

And things do change as new facts are learned. I just heard yesterday that blood cleaning where they draw out your blood clean it and add oxygen as they return it to your body is proving more effective than respirators. How valid this tid bit of info is I have no idea.

Edited July 16, 2020 by saddlebum

[Argo]

To All,

 

I would like to thank everybody for keeping things very civil and having an open discussion.

I was afraid that my post might insight a "riot" and almost deleted it.

 

The issues are complex as most are and yes, each side will try to manipulate anything to suit their "philosophy" to one degree or another.

 

I think that the greatest fear that many people have isn't the virus itself but the fear of the political and social consequences of the unprecedented actions and power that state Governors and state health officials have wielded. Governor Wolf of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania just reinstated restrictions again for the entire state. This in spite of the fact that any increase in cases (not deaths or hospitalizations) are from the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia areas and not the entire state.

I have to add that, in my view, he is acting illegally in defiance of the PA State Constitution as both houses of the state legislature voted to order him to rescind his previous orders. While this was more or less countermanded by the courts, it was really on a technicality.

 

Points to ponder:

1. Just how long is everyone supposed to "social distance" and wear masks?

Until they create a vaccine? (if that is even possible) Until everyone tests positive?

 

2. If this ever ends, what is the next "crisis" that will enable mayors, governors etc. to overstep their authority and violate our individual rights?

 

3. When has any state be able to restrict the travels of individuals as many states are doing?

While not the same or a direct comparison, think about the situation 160 years ago.

Civil unrest, diametrically opposed political points of view etc.

Or even from 80-100 years ago in Europe, specifically Germany where individuals could not travel without the proper paperwork.

 

4. Why, when the POTUS wanted to ban international travel from certain infected countries and areas of the world it was deemed "racist"?

And yet now it is permissible for states to do basically the same thing and that is OK.

 

5. While I agree, to a point, that health professionals should be providing some guidance they should not be the sole power dictating public policy through "mandates".

 

6. All of the things that those in power have "required" us to do to fall in line are being termed "The New Normal".

This should be looked upon with more than a little concern.

And I am not speaking of just health issues.

I believe that some are taking advantage of the situation (whether that situation is completely real or fabricated) to push an agenda.

The greatest threat to our way of life in the United States of America right now is the ability of a very few to shame and silence any and all opinions that differ from the narrative that they want everyone to believe.

 

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Freedom is more important than safety. People want to have the right to speak,to be heard,and vote. ... The drive for the ability to have freedom overpowers the desire for your guarenteed safety. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

Argo

[saddlebum]

To All,

 

I would like to thank everybody for keeping things very civil and having an open discussion.

I was afraid that my post might insight a "riot" and almost deleted it.

 

The issues are complex as most are and yes, each side will try to manipulate anything to suit their "philosophy" to one degree or another.

 

I think that the greatest fear that many people have isn't the virus itself but the fear of the political and social consequences of the unprecedented actions and power that state Governors and state health officials have wielded. Governor Wolf of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania just reinstated restrictions again for the entire state. This in spite of the fact that any increase in cases (not deaths or hospitalizations) are from the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia areas and not the entire state.

I have to add that, in my view, he is acting illegally in defiance of the PA State Constitution as both houses of the state legislature voted to order him to rescind his previous orders. While this was more or less countermanded by the courts, it was really on a technicality.

 

Points to ponder:

1. Just how long is everyone supposed to "social distance" and wear masks?

Until they create a vaccine? (if that is even possible) Until everyone tests positive?

 

2. If this ever ends, what is the next "crisis" that will enable mayors, governors etc. to overstep their authority and violate our individual rights?

 

3. When has any state be able to restrict the travels of individuals as many states are doing?

While not the same or a direct comparison, think about the situation 160 years ago.

Civil unrest, diametrically opposed political points of view etc.

Or even from 80-100 years ago in Europe, specifically Germany where individuals could not travel without the proper paperwork.

 

4. Why, when the POTUS wanted to ban international travel from certain infected countries and areas of the world it was deemed "racist"?

And yet now it is permissible for states to do basically the same thing and that is OK.

 

5. While I agree, to a point, that health professionals should be providing some guidance they should not be the sole power dictating public policy through "mandates".

 

6. All of the things that those in power have "required" us to do to fall in line are being termed "The New Normal".

This should be looked upon with more than a little concern.

And I am not speaking of just health issues.

I believe that some are taking advantage of the situation (whether that situation is completely real or fabricated) to push an agenda.

The greatest threat to our way of life in the United States of America right now is the ability of a very few to shame and silence any and all opinions that differ from the narrative that they want everyone to believe.

 

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Freedom is more important than safety. People want to have the right to speak,to be heard,and vote. ... The drive for the ability to have freedom overpowers the desire for your guarenteed safety. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

Argo

As long as we respect each others opinion and maybe even broaden our outlook by actually listening to each other with open minds we all stand to learn a little something because non of us are 100% informed about anything. that why we have a tech section on our site to learn what we do not know.

[RandyR]

No doubt there will always be some form of manipulation from some person or special interest group trying to take advantage of any situation. But you can't just close the door on it either. And that is always the worst thing about any tragedy or disaster. And yes there will always be mistakes made, the more that are involved the more the mistakes.

 

And things do change as new facts are learned. I just heard yesterday that blood cleaning where they draw out your blood clean it and add oxygen as they return it to your body is proving more effective than respirators. How valid this tid bit of info is I have no idea.

 

I believe this is correct for at least some patients. In CV19 fractured red blood cells may be forming clots; the clots can cause problems multiple places as well as removing oxygen carrying red blood cells from doing their job. Filtering the blood removes the clots, and provides needed oxygen. look up "von willebrand factor" . This is makes better sense when explained in a complicated chain for this > causes that > which does so&so > etc explained in a lengthy video by youtube channel medcram which I recommend, although it can get very technical at times.