87 Royale Carbs

[Poppa Phill]

First things first, history, the Bike then Mine. So we can all start lobbing Bombs on the same page.

This is my 4th Yamaha, 2nd Venture Royale. The 83 I had I bought it at 17lk miles as a basket case of parts from a dealership of all places, literally a pickup truck full of parts. 2 months later Im all over the place riding short long didnt matter. I had my own shop. My XS11 special was the first shaft drive daily driver bike to wing class Champion and Grand Champion at Norwalk 84 or 85 , been a minute. This current bike sat for years as the owners health was bad. He was a well known Guy that had a dealership in New Hampshire. His Wife was a wonderful Lady we had prayer the day I picked up the bike. Her Husband the owner of the dealership and This Bike had recently passed away. The Bike was and Is Special. considering it was missing nothing and beautiful in appearance, the price was to low to put here but for what ever reason It sat there until I made the 6 hr drive to go get it.

It had been ridden once a year for 10 years. according to the wife it didnt get 50 miles a year Parades only.

So Now I have it and the carbs dont wanna cooperate. without going into details, My health and living conditions went from the best of times and facilities to zero. No Home, No Shop, No Garage. So what ever I do has to be done when its not raining or snowing.

Sunday Evening I gave her a full can of seafoam. For all you guys that are on the fence about the Foam, Its the best product of its kind on the market. If it dont work, FIX The Problem!

This evening after climbing down off my cabin building site, I got her fired up and baby walked the rpm down as it warmed up for about 30 mins. it seemed to idle a tad better but based on throttle position and the idle screw position, its not measurable other than its not shutting off when I leave it alone, Holds steady at around 1150 rmps. any lower and she hiccups and stalls out.

Other issues in play, the 2in x 4 inch chrome and black rectangular cover on the side of the right hand rear cylinder has a slow but steady coolant drip, Head Gasket?? Haven't run a pressure test yet. Wiring Harness connections had the green death all over the place when I first got it, nothing electrical worked except headlight and parking lights, no turn signals brake light nothing. Fuse panel and most connections full of green corrosion. Picked up a wiring harness off ebay for $35. that did the trick. I got everything working except the cruise control.

I have another spare Harness, New Radiator. She needs some plastics repairs, I tend to use fiberglass for those as it lasts and holds better even if it is a pain to work with.

So heres what Im thinking to do, and feel free to drop bricks on my head to stop me if im going in the wrong direction.

1, Compression Test, Dry and wet check rings and then another go to check valve sealing.

2. Coolant system pressure leak down test.

3. Rebuild the carbs, at the very least diaphragms and clean the jets ( recommendations plz jet sizing?).

4. Where the radio goes, is an empty Box No clue what was there, harness ends misc wires. Thinking it was same as my 83 stereo and intercom??

5. Finish the rewire on the factory cruise control.

6. Does this bike have an automated ride control system? If it does I cant find it. Its all the way down like riding a 900lb brick with a bad attitude.

IN closing , the bike came with a $400 in parts, exhaust seals, wheel Bearings, Filters, misc nuts bolts etc.

AND! 2 Manuals. Yamaha Factory Service Manual P/N LIT-11616-07-27 supplement and the Original P/N LIT-11616-10-67.

If theres another Manual I need Link me up and I get to it.

Im all Ears Gentlemen. Go easy, My Feet dont work well anymore an Im too crippled to run away from ya.

God Bless ya and Ride Safe!!

[Poppa Phill]

i FORGOT to add the name of the dealership.

St Hilaire Motor Sport in Barrington NH.

Im Sorry I cannot remember the gentleman's Name that was the Owner who passed away..

If His wife is representative of who he was, then he had to be one heck of a nice Guy!!

[Marcarl]

I'm not a great fan of Seafoam, although it works well for maintenance and is non-invasive so to speak. But reading through your wiring description, I would take the high tension wire of the ignition and make sure those are all clean and ready to work. It's a bit of a pain to get them out, but can be done. Remove the front ones first and then while they are out do the back ones, all working from the front of the bike. Cut the wires to refresh them, clean the towers of the coils, clean the coil primary contacts, and cut a bit off of the lower wire to refresh them, also take the spark plugs ends apart and clean the resistors in there, or just replace them.

[Patch]

A couple things I'd consider:

First remember seafoam in the tank, in a bike that hasn't run, with some unknowns; is a slower burn, when it comes to cold ignition..

 

1150 rpm then stalls: from here it sounds like she is firing on 2 jugs only.

 

I am a believer in the spark gap testing before playing in the carbs; it simply helps me put together a better overall plan! You can use a grounded screwdriver if you haven't the tool..

 

Compression on a long time parked engine will not be all inclusive yet is sound practice.

I very rarely do a wet test anymore!!

We have a thread which gives some of my old projects tricks, even if the test shows low do not give up or lift the heads until you at least try the ( a case for fogging ) tricks..

Expect of course some rust on face and seats, but remember they rotate at rpm so with some luck they will once again seal after the heavy lifting is completed

 

We'll stay tuned in to the project and input as wanted, if you suspend the project then please let us know.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Patch

[Poppa Phill]

I'm not a great fan of Seafoam, although it works well for maintenance and is non-invasive so to speak. But reading through your wiring description, I would take the high tension wire of the ignition and make sure those are all clean and ready to work. It's a bit of a pain to get them out, but can be done. Remove the front ones first and then while they are out do the back ones, all working from the front of the bike. Cut the wires to refresh them, clean the towers of the coils, clean the coil primary contacts, and cut a bit off of the lower wire to refresh them, also take the spark plugs ends apart and clean the resistors in there, or just replace them.

 

Added to the List and thanks a Ton!

[Poppa Phill]

A couple things I'd consider:

First remember seafoam in the tank, in a bike that hasn't run, with some unknowns; is a slower burn, when it comes to cold ignition..

 

1150 rpm then stalls: from here it sounds like she is firing on 2 jugs only.

 

I am a believer in the spark gap testing before playing in the carbs; it simply helps me put together a better overall plan! You can use a grounded screwdriver if you haven't the tool..

 

Compression on a long time parked engine will not be all inclusive yet is sound practice.

I very rarely do a wet test anymore!!

We have a thread which gives some of my old projects tricks, even if the test shows low do not give up or lift the heads until you at least try the ( a case for fogging ) tricks..

Expect of course some rust on face and seats, but remember they rotate at rpm so with some luck they will once again seal after the heavy lifting is completed

 

We'll stay tuned in to the project and input as wanted, if you suspend the project then please let us know.

 

Last year when I brought it home, plugs gaps was the first thing done along with a very expensive oil change, I think I might have put 200 miles on it caps after initially getting her going. getting sick last fall hurt more than my head as the bike ended up uncovered and unprepped for the winter as I lay in ICU with my head cut open.

Going to Houlton Payday, new set of plugs plug caps etc. along with some piano wire and a new torch head cleaner also good for jets and the like.

The new list is thanks to the input received and I hope it grows as its 60 miles to the nearest parts of any kind and being a recent lobotomy [atient dont help the memory.

Update. Bike started and ran at around 1300 rpm without the choke on . i let it run about 20 minutes. throttle cable might need replacing , does not reset after twist is bike isnt running, checked adjuster screws at the grip, NO JOY.. she starts better and didnt hiccup. How Weird.....

Onward the List!!!

Many Thanks Brethren!!! Inded!

[Patch]

"Last year when I brought it home, plugs gaps was the first thing done"

 

Not what we are referring to..

Start here: page 7-35

 

Can you give us a list of the tools you have available to use??

 

[Poppa Phill]

After removing some plastic so I can see things better, ive added a new air filter to the list. also Must importantly, its NOT a Royale, just a plain Venture,.

sitting on the bike, left front cylinder #1 ? the slider isnt moving however it is firing. all the pipes seem to be opf the same temp but I fear this bike wasnt very well treated in the long haul, too many small things not properly maintained missing or broken and taped up etc, Carb kits came today, so im going to start breaking things down..

Seriously APPRECIATE ALL THE POINTERS TO GET ME HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTIONS ON MY LIST.!!

[Poppa Phill]

"Last year when I brought it home, plugs gaps was the first thing done"

 

Not what we are referring to..

Start here: page 7-35

 

Can you give us a list of the tools you have available to use??

 

fULL SET OF SOCKETS AND WRENCHES CROWS FEET SHALLOW AND DEEP SOCKETS, 1/4 3/8 AND 1/2 IN DRIVE STUFF, IMPACTS FEELER GUAGES. OOPS SORRY FOR CAPS ..Vacum guage kit is in storage so ordered a new set. comp[ression check guages, 1/2 in and 3/8 torque wrench set both ft and inch lbs.. dont think I have any carb tools persay float guages etc. dont have any yamaha specific tools anymore unless they are in my master cabinets at the storage rooms in Ga x2. 1 for tools one for household junk,,.. full compliment of electrical testing gear. I build search and rescue copters of the large type so el;ectronics testing is covered. Piston ring compression tools ring groove cleaners, plasti guage ( old school) anfd clearance clay for checking valve clearance on flycut pistons.. thats about all I got here . Mig welding and tig machine cutting torch..

[Poppa Phill]

"Last year when I brought it home, plugs gaps was the first thing done"

 

Not what we are referring to..

Start here: page 7-35

 

Can you give us a list of the tools you have available to use??

 

Ok I know Im missing something as I havent yet figured out where pages 7 - 35 are point me there and Im on it!!

[Patch]

At the back of the manual you will find ELEC chapter 7, the chapter has diagrams and procedures,

at the bottom of each page you will see first the chapter # then the page #

 

That said and referring to the test in question there is a simple gadget available thru most auto centers call a "spark gap tester" less then $10.00 or use a screwdriver grounded to the engine then placed in front of the cap as you spin the engine (set to run) guess at the length of ark jumping to ground...

 

The easy way is to use the tester gadget I mentioned.. It quickly proves the ignition system!

Keep in mind this this bike is setup with a wasted spark ignition when firing compression stroke it also fires one of to exhaust stroke, save on parts but, pairs the firing sequence, wins and losses just like the rest of life

 

Dust off the multi meter change battery... you will likely need it

[Patch]

A couple of notes:

The 1150 then stalls says more than the running at 1300 rpm. Either way it is to early in the game to concern over.

Remember this is liquid cooled, after 5 minutes the jugs not firing will warm regardless due to fluid circulation, use the water spray technique on the pipes.

 

As you are rebuilding the carbs:

 

While off spin the engine, cover one intake pipe at a time with a flat hand, you should feel a strong pull down ONLY. If you feel any positive pressure, that is a leaking seat, remember cold seats and hot seat can behave differently,,,, but Yam seats usually seat well even cold! That would be rust then.

 

When the carbs are off - are the more accurate compression result

Measure at 5 full turns first note, then for maximum compression, 172 is the magic number.

 

Note the jets # you remove, then those that you replace with. that note sheet should remain with your manual.

 

Check the cable routing it should lay smooth thru it run, there is a cable run diagram in the book.

 

Check vacuum tubing for cracks, check cruise control pump for leaks and clean filter.

 

Logical to assume left front as #1 but it aint left rear is.

take a couple of clear pics if you can while the carbs are off, let us have a peak for leaks and routing stuff.

 

I'll say again if when you cover the intake pipes and the don't hold vacuum for 5ish seconds after you stop spinning it, let us know before you reinstalling the carbs.

 

Don't skip over or rush the cleaning and jet blow through s or you will be back in there!

 

Tough up your screw drivers to match the jobs, jets need to be firmly tight only or they brake, too loose and down the road chit happens!

 

Wash and lube the piston slides, dry them after with a cloth, clean the bores as well, check the diagrams with a light, check both for crack and trueness of shape.

 

Check floats in warm bowl of water for air bubbles.

 

Set them correctly check for smooth consistent operation, then when upside down the gate is closed you should not be able to blow through the fuel inlet tube! Or you will be back in then again.

 

Take your time..

 

Then bench sync the plates when they are reassembled, this will be important as you do not have vacuum syncing tools. We'll walk you thru it once there

 

Enjoy the sport

[Poppa Phill]

A couple things I'd consider:

First remember seafoam in the tank, in a bike that hasn't run, with some unknowns; is a slower burn, when it comes to cold ignition..

 

1150 rpm then stalls: from here it sounds like she is firing on 2 jugs only.

 

I am a believer in the spark gap testing before playing in the carbs; it simply helps me put together a better overall plan! You can use a grounded screwdriver if you haven't the tool..

 

Compression on a long time parked engine will not be all inclusive yet is sound practice.

I very rarely do a wet test anymore!!

We have a thread which gives some of my old projects tricks, even if the test shows low do not give up or lift the heads until you at least try the ( a case for fogging ) tricks..

Expect of course some rust on face and seats, but remember they rotate at rpm so with some luck they will once again seal after the heavy lifting is completed

 

We'll stay tuned in to the project and input as wanted, if you suspend the project then please let us know.

Evening Gents. Cut and trimmed all the wires changed the oil again it was horrible again but no metal shards, magnet was clean.

She started up like all of a sudden all was good. had to back that idle screw down a lot. shut it off and went to work on the cabin. After work, I decided to take it down the road and WOW! no stalliing no hiccups. Does the XVZ1300 have an aggresive cam? This thing comes on at around 3500 and gets gone. nothing like my old venture royale I mean its stuck on stupid. Is there any way to check this aside from pulling the covers and checking lobe height??

Thank you Gentlemen very very much. looks like the carb kits will stay in the box. its a whole nother deal now just fixing little bugs and upgrading the fuse box.

[suds]

Did you still have the coolant leak?

 

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[Patch]

Good to hear.

It is possible that he built a bit of a sleeper swapping in some V-Max parts?

Could be heads, or cams and jetting, then likely the final drive as well.

If the day comes you get to the carbs note the jet sizing down. The cam part number would tell you.

 

So slides are working now and like @suds mentioned the leak... Keep checking the connections they can be ghostly tell you get thru them all.

When you locate the TCI note its number as well then compare it to the stock number.

Your tank range will be reduced if those mods have been done.

[suds]

Behind those rectangle plates you describe are plugs that can leak coolant. They go bad with age and heat cycles. You can still get replacements at the dealer. I'll see if I can find the part number, you'll need 4.

 

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

Edited May 21, 2020 by suds

[Poppa Phill]

I'm not a great fan of Seafoam, although it works well for maintenance and is non-invasive so to speak. But reading through your wiring description, I would take the high tension wire of the ignition and make sure those are all clean and ready to work. It's a bit of a pain to get them out, but can be done. Remove the front ones first and then while they are out do the back ones, all working from the front of the bike. Cut the wires to refresh them, clean the towers of the coils, clean the coil primary contacts, and cut a bit off of the lower wire to refresh them, also take the spark plugs ends apart and clean the resistors in there, or just replace them.

 

Good evening. I wrote down everything you guys said to check with regards to the wiring. cut and clipped them all to refresh them, I didnt do the coin ends as by the time I got the first set of wires done and continued cleaning the fuel systems, my meds were wearing off and I could walk, Hence he misses showed up with a baseball bat. She did allow me to put everything back together. some of those wires were atrocious burned and or mostly just gone!

I had to keep my appointments today so I road the bike down to lincoln. It Ran like a dream pretty much, front tire needs balancing badly starts to bounce 65 - 70. I can tell; there are still wire issues as its on 90% of the time but i can tell its not all there. this bike engine comes on up on Cam around 3400-3500 and wants to go boom. Normal?? Previous Venture was an 83 great Bike but I dont remember it acting like this one with regards to power band. you Guys were dead on the money about High rpms. It likes 4500 or better for cruising, 4th Gear was sweet. with my head so messed up I can remember everything Im yet supposed to do so I gotta read all your posts again so I can remember why I wrote things down, (sucks). Bottom Line Every Bit of advice has already proven to be spot on correct and I will continue to fix what I find.

1. going to check the spark plug caps again, I read somewhere they have a resistor inside ??

2. Motor fires right up, so far have backed the idle screw down 5 turns and more to go, it was at 1800 when I got home for neutral idle speed.

3. where is best place to get a generic fuse panel so I can get rid of this one its got rust , cracks in the base..

4. Im in serious Trouble. I saw a 2003 Venture today. asking $3k where should I [post the pics?

I test road it for about 45 minutes, fuel gauge doesnt work they had to jump it off, started fine after that even war zero issues and ran like a scalded Dawg!!

IM going back to get it in the am if you guys say its worth it. I plan on talking him outa some stuff as he wants my 2010 Yamaha Nytro MOUNTAIN Sled in a swap.

will post photos soon as somebody tells me where they go!

Thank you all so much, you made this task go like warm butter. I couldnt be happier!!

God Bless!

[Poppa Phill]

At the back of the manual you will find ELEC chapter 7, the chapter has diagrams and procedures,

at the bottom of each page you will see first the chapter # then the page #

 

That said and referring to the test in question there is a simple gadget available thru most auto centers call a "spark gap tester" less then $10.00 or use a screwdriver grounded to the engine then placed in front of the cap as you spin the engine (set to run) guess at the length of ark jumping to ground...

 

The easy way is to use the tester gadget I mentioned.. It quickly proves the ignition system!

Keep in mind this this bike is setup with a wasted spark ignition when firing compression stroke it also fires one of to exhaust stroke, save on parts but, pairs the firing sequence, wins and losses just like the rest of life

 

Dust off the multi meter change battery... you will likely need it

Done and done. still; have to do the coil ends. metter dusted and ready. going to check an see if they have resisters in the caps??

[Poppa Phill]

Behind those rectangle plates you describe are plugs that can leak coolant. They go bad with age and heat cycles. You can still get replacements at the dealer. I'll see if I can find the part number, you'll need 4.

 

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

Are they theaded of just like car engine freeze plugs??

[suds]

Are they theaded of just like car engine freeze plugs??

 

 

Here they are. You can use a spark plug to pull them out if they are stuck. (Or find a screw with the same thread pitch)

 

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[Patch]

"I saw a 2003 Venture today. asking $3k where should I

I test road it for about 45 minutes, fuel gauge doesnt work they had to jump it off, started fine after that even war zero issues and ran like a scalded Dawg!!

IM going back to get it in the am if you guys say its worth it"

 

I wouldn't.

 

I think the book called for 10 ohm but I hear guys run 5.

[saddlebum]

Forget the the OEM fuse block replace it with ATM or ATC/ATO fuse block similar to the one in the link. They come in various configurations and number of fuses. ATM is the mini version of the ATO/ATC fuse all which are common automotive fuse

 

https://www.amazon.com/PSEQT-Negative-Waterproof-Automotive-Standard/dp/B0821JSV79

 

An assortment of various versions of these fuse blocks are also commonly found an marine supply stores

Edited May 22, 2020 by saddlebum

[Pasta Burner]

Forget the the OEM fuse block replace it with ATM or ATC/ATO fuse block similar to the one in the link. They come in various configurations and number of fuses. ATM is the mini version of the ATO/ATC fuse all which are common automotive fuse

 

https://www.amazon.com/PSEQT-Negative-Waterproof-Automotive-Standard/dp/B0821JSV79

 

An assortment of various versions of these fuse blocks are also commonly found an marine supply stores

 

 

With the fuse block conversion, do y’all just still lay it across the battery or mount it somewhere? My OEM is just kinda flopped on top of the battery and held somewhat in place by the battery strap.

[saddlebum]

Thats the way the oem fuse blocks are mounted I mounted mine back much the same way on top of the battery with a slight modification to the strap some will screw them down on to the air cleaner cover. I just didnt want to have to fuss with the fuse block every time I wanted to remove the air cleaner cover.

[saddlebum]

BTW not to dispute anything posted here as they are all good comments. I just want to point out that it is not uncommon for these bikes to be a bit temperamental when you 1st attempt to start them up after sitting for a spell. I have many times taken the air cleaner off to find sticky barrels were I will wet them with seafoam or carb cleaner and then carefully reach down with a long screw and gently move them. the starting issue were it will only start on closed throttle and die when yo open it also will occur but fades as the bike warms up. Once I get it warm enough will run enough to get the bike moving I ride the bike staying in the higher RPMs 1st just riding around the block in 1st gear then adding gears as the bike starts run better. Finally after a good run the bike just seems to clear up and run normally firing up each and every time at the touch of the starter etc. I seem to go thorough this every other spring or so depending on how long the bike sits but then I do not go through a whole storage procedure when I park the bike for the winter. I just cover it and leave it sit outside under the cover until spring. sometimes I may add seafoam and sometimes I won't. the winters I don't seem to be the ones were I have to fuss more in the spring.

 

This past winter I added 1/2 a can of seafoam to a 1/4 full tank of fuel and ran it until it started to smoke then shut her down. then I topped the fuel tank off with super gas from a Jerry can.. This spring other than smoking like heck for the 1st little while she fired right up no issues.

 

Again just food for thought not a fix.