Finally nice weather! .... but then ... clicky no starty

[Mad Dog]

Hi all,not a complete downer here .. but it seems that the 06 RSV is developing another old age issue maybe. When I hit the start button I sometimes get nothing... just the click that sounds like the starter solenoid ... so I think it probably is. Seems to happen when the bike is hot. So run a 3 miles to the gas station, click click - no starter. Tr a bazillion times ... still nothing. 3 minutes later, fires up like a champ.

Went out and did 120 miles yesterday, mixed in with 2 thirty minute stops .. no issues. So I do think it has to do with the bike being hot. I once read that hot electrical components put up more resistance. So could this mean that the starter solenoid is dying?

Can it be cleaned with contact cleaner or sandpaper?

 

Thanks as always

Mike

[Marcarl]

Sounds like the relay, but also could be the starter,, not likely the switch seeing as you do get clicking. I would find a relay for a Ford and try that first, if that don't fix it, you would have to pull the starter I think.

[Mad Dog]

Sounds like the relay, but also could be the starter,, not likely the switch seeing as you do get clicking. I would find a relay for a Ford and try that first, if that don't fix it, you would have to pull the starter I think.

 

Relay from a Ford? Wow, and particular one?

Where is the relay in the RSV, if you don't mind?

 

Thanks

[djh3]

Relay is under left side cover by floorboard. I think you may need to take the floorboard off. Any Ford Some look like this Some look like this They all do the same.

[Mad Dog]

Relay is under left side cover by floorboard. I think you may need to take the floorboard off. Any Ford Some ... ...

 

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

[Flyinfool]

I am not one to throw money at a problem. I would start with a voltmeter and see if it really is the solenoid that is the problem. Then fix whatever you find the problem to be.

[gmarshall]

I would do the simplest things first. Clean the battery terminals, tighten everything up, maybe even have the battery tested. Battery die in hot weather as well as cold.

 

Just my

 

G

[Mad Dog]

I am not one to throw money at a problem. I would start with a voltmeter and see if it really is the solenoid that is the problem. Then fix whatever you find the problem to be.

 

I agree, but is there a way to test that solenoid? It either works or it doesn't... is there a way to test that?

 

Thanks

[Marcarl]

Best way to test a solenoid is to replace it with a known good one, or for the cost of a Ford type use a new one. I would first run a booster cable directly from the battery to the starter to make sure the starter works.

[Flyinfool]

Pretty simple, Connect a voltmeter from the starter side of the solenoid to the neg battery terminal and hit the start button. If there is 12V then the solenoid is working and the problem is elsewhere. Also put your finger on the body of the solenoid you should be able to feel the "click". to be sure that the click you are hearing is not a relay somewhere else.

[cowpuc]

Pretty simple, Connect a voltmeter from the starter side of the solenoid to the neg battery terminal and hit the start button. If there is 12V then the solenoid is working and the problem is elsewhere. Also put your finger on the body of the solenoid you should be able to feel the "click". to be sure that the click you are hearing is not a relay somewhere else.

 

Probably shouldn't even jump in here with more of my backyard mechanican advice and, if your reading this, PLEASE take this with a grain of salt cause I really dont know nuttin about nuttin but,, one of the things I never really appreciated about the digital volt/ohm meters I have played around with compared to the beat up old Simpson analog (sp? not even sure I spelled that right,, like I said, grain of salt ) meter that my Grandfather gave me to poke around with when I was a kid was the sensitivity of the digitals = IMHO (and that is all it is),, I liked the digitals for circuit board work but the analog for testing devices.. This is probably wayyyyy out in left field from the training that the guru's of the site have had and what real experience has taught them but my Simpson always seemed to put just enough load on the circuit I was testing that it usually would/could find flawed contact points and the like easier than the digitals I have owned/used thru the years.. The reason why,, and strickly IMHO of course,, was the digitals I had (never had a real high end digital, Fluke is about the best I had for shop use and always carried a 5 dollar Harbor Freight Vlt/ohm on the bike - always willing to donate my HF to a needy - stranded biker but would have had a hard time doing that with my Fluke) were so sensitive that they could/would, at times,, still read 12vdc thru charred contacts.. Probably not right but the way old Murph rolled around my bikes/cars/houses,, life:big-grin-emoticon:

 

OK,, back to reality!!

[djh3]

Puc I agree on tha e old school analog being a good meter to have for some stuff. I was working on some trailer lighting issues last week @ my fill in job till the school opend back this week. Its hard as hell to see correct voltage indication on a signal on a digital. At least on the OG meter it would wave at ya.

[cowpuc]

Puc I agree on tha e old school analog being a good meter to have for some stuff. I was working on some trailer lighting issues last week @ my fill in job till the school opend back this week. Its hard as hell to see correct voltage indication on a signal on a digital. At least on the OG meter it would wave at ya.

 

EXACTLY my experience Deej!!! Sitting there working on trailer lighting,, digital volt/ohm on deck of trailer,, testing lights with a cheap little beat up poker (what I always called em,, you know,, the little pointed tester with a light in it that lights up when you hit 12 volts) a few years back and employee asks why I am not using the meter,, told him exactly what you just said,, shook his head and walked away,, grinned and went back to testing and asked Murphy to reconnect the ground clip on the poker he had pulled off when my head was turned

[Flyinfool]

Each type of meter has its place, When you are broke down you use what you got. The technique for the different testers require different approaches. IF you understand how the digital meter works it is just as useful as a test light or an analog. It is all in the process.

[Mad Dog]

Thank you all. This thread got interesting.

But now, I got no clicking either. I am going to search and then post looking fr help on taking the right handlebar switch box apart...

 

Thanks to all as always.

 

Mike

[Marcarl]

Thank you all. This thread got interesting.

But now, I got no clicking either. I am going to search and then post looking fr help on taking the right handlebar switch box apart...

 

Thanks to all as always.

 

Mike

 

Don't want to be over thinking this, but check your connections at the battery first, not only that the clamps are clean and tight, but also that the cables are well connected to the clamps. Then move onto the solenoid, checking everything there. If that don't provide the hoped for results, check the switch, or maybe even the kickstand switch now that you don't even have a click.

[Mad Dog]

Don't want to be over thinking this, but check your connections at the battery first, not only that the clamps are clean and tight, but also that the cables are well connected to the clamps. Then move onto the solenoid, checking everything there. If that don't provide the hoped for results, check the switch, or maybe even the kickstand switch now that you don't even have a click.

 

Thanks and you are 100% correct. Those things check out, but I will absolutely double check.

The kicker is, seems to me that after a minute or three (if hot) and maybe a half dozen presses on the starter switch ... it starts....

... so far anyway.

[Mad Dog]

Hi again.... hopefully this bumps back up.

So Things were no better and no worse, but life got in the way, and I'm just getting back to this.

Bottom line is, with no clicks .. and then sometimes a click but no start, I got a replacement relay, and put that in. Now I pretty much have it clicking reliably, but then there's nothing else. So, I guess I'm looking for advice again... before I set it on fire. I guess the starter is next, correct?

 

Why would it not turn over ... and then after a click or three or maybe 10 (seriously) it starts?

Sorry ... I'm just easily frustrated I guess.

 

Thank you all

Mike

[Marcarl]

Don't know where we have been so far, so you have a new solenoid, all connections cleaned, then using your multi-meter check for voltage on the cold side of the solenoid, there should be nothing, then hit the start button and there should be 12v. If not, it isn't working, or the start switch isn't working. If there is 12v on the cold side then look at the starter to first off check the main connection and then maybe have to pull the starter out. Also, check to see if there is a voltage drop on the hot side of the solenoid when you hit the start switch. Also check all the battery connections, the ones to the post but also the cable clamp itself to the cable. Don't be gentle, twist and pull significantly. If it comes apart,, there is a problem. If you are gentle then you will never know.

[HermanK84VR]

Hi Mike

 

As Well as all the previous good advice

 

check for any corrosion/rust where the starter is bolted up to the engine.

 

besides having 12v on the solenoid you also need to have a good ground at the starter.

 

it could be as simple as backing off the starter mounting bolts and re-tightening to clean up the ground connection.

 

Hermank84VR

[Mad Dog]

You guys have all been great, I appreciate it ... but I am beginning to think I am one step away from setting the bike on fire. So, here where I stand, maybe someone will see what I am missing.

 

I bought a new starter relay and got it installed, but pretty much the same thing is happening. A good solid click, but starter not turning. I have the lower fairings off to try and get to the starter connections, but you probably know that not possible unless I commit to taking out the radiator etc. So I thought I'd start from the top again.

Battery terminals are clean, and connections are tight.

Key on, hit the start switch, and *if* it doesn't start, I get the good solid click (new relay)

Key on, jump the relay direct to the starter lead and it starts. Over a dozen time. Like a champ.

Put the starter relay back in ... same problem.

Take the starter relay out and connect it to the battery and check for continuity. Perfect 0.2-0.0 ohms.

Put the starter relay in hook up the hot but NOT the starter lead. Click = 12v through the relay to the starter led terminal - literally more than 50 times. (So frustrated I counted 50).

Connect the starter lead back to where it lives on the starter relay hit the starter switch - bike starts and starts and starts, then it doesn't. I never let go of the start switch, hd a good solid click, but now no voltage coming out to the starter lead. Then it starts a time or two, Noting changed, didn't touch shifter, kickstand, ignition switch, just used the kill switch. Try again - push the start button, good solid click, no voltage coming out of the relay.

Take the relay out and do the continuity test again ... and again .. and again ... Perfect every time. Hook it back up and get the click and no start again ... no voltage out of the relay to the starter feed.

 

The previous troubleshooting step involved the starting circuit cut off relay, which is maybe 2 years old, and I am pretty sure I tested it OK. The next steps involve the main start switch and the engine stop and neutral switches etc... I cannot believe it is any of those because I have had multiple instances of the bike starting then not starting and no voltage through the relay, even though I hear it pull in. The relay wouldn't pull in if there were a problem with those switches correct? Pulls in every time that I recall, every time. Then sometimes no voltage through the relay. Seems like a bad relay, right? BUT this is a NEW OEM relay, and its doing the same thing the old one was doing, so I doubt it's a bad relay, it would have to be a new one, defective the same way as the old one??? That can't happen, but I don't know what else to do.

[Flyinfool]

I hate intermittent electrical problems, they are the hardest to find.

 

First, you would not be the first person to get a new bad part.

 

Are you sure that the click you are hearing is the solenoid? there are several relay that will click when you press the start button.

 

A continuity check is not a valid test of a high power relay contacts. It is easy to show continuity but it can not carry the amps.

 

As a test, try disconnecting the starter side cable, connect your voltmeter to battery neg and to the starter side of the solenoid.

Press start button and hold it thru this test.

Should show 12V at starter terminal. Now watch the voltage and touch the starter cable to the Starter side terminal, it should crank and it should still show 12V. You may have to try this a bunch of times since it is intermittent.

 

The next test is to connect the volt meter from one side of the coil to the other, and reconnect the starter cable. Try the start button until you get a no start. Does the voltmeter show any voltage when you get a no start? IF it shows voltage when trying to start then the issue is more likely the starter.

[Mad Dog]

I hate intermittent electrical problems, they are the hardest to find.

 

Thats no joke. Thanks for your time, and here's what happened.

I am definitely hearing and feeling the starter solenoid, as well as seeing it connect using the continuity meter. One thing is that I am no longer getting 12v from the battery, I am getting 11.8-.9 volts. Actually I am not 100% positive I was ever getting 12+ volts, since I've been checking, I am recalling it always in this range. I doubt that has much of anything to do with it at this point though, because sometimes it starts perfectly, like a brand new bike. What are your thoughts considering everything?

 

 

As a test, try disconnecting the starter side cable, connect your voltmeter to battery neg and to the starter side of the solenoid.

Press start button and hold it thru this test.

Should show 12V at starter terminal. Now watch the voltage and touch the starter cable to the Starter side terminal, it should crank and it should still show 12V. You may have to try this a bunch of times since it is intermittent.

 

This is stunning to me, but every time I did this I got the usual 11.9 - 11.8 volts through the solenoid, and when I touched the starter cable to it, voltage stayed and the bike started. Twenty times.

 

 

The next test is to connect the volt meter from one side of the coil to the other, and reconnect the starter cable. Try the start button until you get a no start. Does the voltmeter show any voltage when you get a no start? IF it shows voltage when trying to start then the issue is more likely the starter.

 

Ready for this one - very confusing to me.? When I did this, yes, I got voltage from one side to the other, even with a no start. In addition, while holding down the start button, at the same instance when I had voltage between the two terminals, I had zero between the starter terminal and ground, or the starter terminal and the battery negative.... seems tome that there is no voltage being transferred through the solenoid I am not sure that I understand how I get voltage from one terminal to the other across the solenoid. I was under the impression that I needed to go from hot to ground to measure voltage.

 

So I tried some things again, hopefully not to muddy the waters....

Starter cable disconnected - voltage across the two terminals, and voltage from starter terminal to battery negative. Twenty times

Jump the starter cable to the starter terminal - starts ... twenty times.

Connect the starter cable to the terminal, no start, no voltage between the terminals, no voltage from starter terminal to ground or to battery negative. Jump the two terminals and it starts... every time. Like a champ.

 

This has me completely turned around.... hopefully something here makes sense.

The only thing I can think of is this: is 11.9-11.8 volts not enough to start it "sometimes" through the starter solenoid? But then why would it be different after 10 pushes of the start switch ... or two pushes ... or twenty? So I hooked up my jump starter to the battery, let it charge for 5 minutes, but still got the start/no start condition. Exactly the same. I don't know if that means anything.

 

**** EDIT --> Took the battery to be tested and they told me it is fine, just needed a little charge.

 

 

Thanks again and as always,

Mike

Edited June 14, 2020 by Mad Dog

[Flyinfool]

Yep get a charger on that battery. A fully charged battery should read 12.6V.

 

OK, I have a hunch where thi gremlin is hiding. Your test results are making sense.

 

Next test, connect the voltmeter neg to the battery side of the solenoid and the pos voltmeter to the terminal on the starter motor. Try till you get a no start. When when in no start and the start button is pressed. does the voltmeter show near 12V?

 

Next weird test, Connect the pos voltmeter lead to the terminal on the starter and the neg voltmeter lead to the battery negative terminal. When in no start condition, is there voltage?

 

One more weird one, Connect the Neg voltmeter lead to battery NEg and the pos voltmeter lead to the actual starter housing. IN start or no start, do you see voltage?

[Mad Dog]

Yep get a charger on that battery. A fully charged battery should read 12.6V.

 

OK, I have a hunch where thi gremlin is hiding. Your test results are making sense.

 

OK, thanks. I'll have to finish digging down to the starter itself after work today.

Standby!

Thank you so much.