Any lop eared HVAC professionals in the club?

[cowpuc]

I know we have numerous Venture guru's here that I have bugged to death thru the years (thanks you guys/girls!!) in keeping the old 1st Gens out doing what they do best = CTFW but was wondering,, any one ever fool around installing a Central Air Conditioner Condenser? Crazy as it this may sound,, brother Murphy and his band of misfits who love following me around instructed a Chipmonk or Mouse (could't tell which by his/her remains) in the fine art of chewing on just the right wire on our homes condenser to short out the Compressor on ours and to do so internally on the compressor so as to not disturb any thermal or electrical protection outside of the compressor did there job to perfection:Avatars_Gee_George:.. I did a little calling around and found out that for a professional installer/repair person to come in and repair the unit - we are looking at over 2 grand as,, I am being told,, the whole unit including the Evaporator "A Frame" coil would also have to be replaced as they are made to be used only as a matched unit??.. As in my nature,, I always question answers like this,,, I KNOW - ITS A FLAW IN MY GREATLY FLAWED CHARACTER TO ALWAYS QUESTION THIS BUT = why cant I just by a brand new condenser - cabinet and all and just install it myself? If possible,, what kind of job am I looking at in so doing?? Tools? Methods? Any secrets you may be willing to share (dont tell me nothing your Union is gonna hang you for) about install tricks?? Think I'm nuts? Feel free to say so,, heard it all before

 

THANKS IN ADVANCE for any or no advice..

Puc

[Marcarl]

Your pro's have a bit of truth to their story. We use lots of that stuff and we have a local bud who thinks like you and me,, why can't I change it to suit me, rather than being stuck with what I am told,,so I know what he tells me is what it is.

Yep,, the units are matched and there has been so much updating to the AC units in the last years that older units will no longer be competitively changeable or upgrade-able. The pro's, where you get the required gas from are no longer allowed to install the older stuff, and if they had some and could sneak it to you, you would also have to find an old compressor that is compatible to the old gas,,, gets kind of confusing. If your compressor gave up and burnt you will most likely have burnt gas and oil in the system which needs to be disposed of. The whole system would have to be cleaned of the original coolant and put under vacuum for a while to make sure all contaminants and air is out, and then insert the new stuff. The Condenser is matched to the evaporator, (inside and outside) and if there is a miss match then you'll have freezing issues either at one place of the other. Put not enough gas in the system and it will run low on pressure and shut off,, too much gas and you stand the chance of blowing the system.

Stuff you would need to DIY: Vacuum pump, welding torch for copper pipe (not solder), set of gauges, know how as to pressures and switching requirements, AC gas supply, leak tester,,,,, and maybe some more,,,, but you won't need to check the compression.

My guy built an AC unit to work on a trailer for a refrigeration unit, it worked excellent, but he did all the figuring before he installed it, and he has a whole barn full of old/new parts that he can draw from.

They should be able to match the A-frame though if they are willing to do a little figuring, but you won't get any sort of warranty for the work I bet.

[BlueSky]

I'm assuming the condenser is in a unit outside and the evaporator is inside under the house or in the attic? How old? What brand? What rating? Does it have R22 refrigerant or something else? I think there is a substitute refrigerant that you can use in the place of R22 but I'm not sure about that. If the units are separate, you could probably buy a replacement outside unit on line and just hire someone to hook it up or hook it up yourself and hire someone to vacuum the lines and place it in service. I think the new outside units come charged with refrigerant.

As far as matching the evaporator with the compressor, it seems to me that if they are rated the same it should be okay.

 

Anyhow, My original heat pumps were Rheem (a 2 ton unit for upstairs and a 2 ton for downstairs) and they used R22 refrigerant. After many repairs over 15 yrs, I had them replaced. The main brands were $9k to $10k dollars, Trane, Carrier with everybody I checked with. I found an outfit that would install Goodman units for $6K and that is what I chose. They have been in service for 12 yrs now with one issue. I could have bought the whole system, both units on line for $3k if I could have installed them myself. The main thing to be aware of as far as I know is to make sure the compressors are scroll type. The cheapest units use a cheaper compressor.

 

The one problem with the Goodman units after 9 yrs was the upstairs stopped working and it was diagnosed as a leaky evaporator. I pulled out my original receipt that said all part guaranteed for ten yrs. They said they forgot to register the units and the warranty wasn't validated. I said that sounds like a personal problem because my receipt says it's guaranteed. Anyhow, they replaced the evap in about an hour and charged me $500 for "labor" and refrigerant. They checked the pressures in the downstairs unit and they were a little low but since it was still working ok they didn't troubleshoot it. Just after the 10 yrs lapsed, it quit working. I got my hands on some R402A and found out my old AC gauges that I've had since the 70's fit my heat pumps so I charged it a bit myself and it is still working fine over a year later. So, if you have some auto AC gauges that worked with R12 they will work on the home units too.

[cowpuc]

I'm assuming the condenser is in a unit outside and the evaporator is inside under the house or in the attic? How old? What brand? What rating? Does it have R22 refrigerant or something else? I think there is a substitute refrigerant that you can use in the place of R22 but I'm not sure about that. If the units are separate, you could probably buy a replacement outside unit on line and just hire someone to hook it up or hook it up yourself and hire someone to vacuum the lines and place it in service. I think the new outside units come charged with refrigerant.

As far as matching the evaporator with the compressor, it seems to me that if they are rated the same it should be okay.

 

Anyhow, My original heat pumps were Rheem (a 2 ton unit for upstairs and a 2 ton for downstairs) and they used R22 refrigerant. After many repairs over 15 yrs, I had them replaced. The main brands were $9k to $10k dollars, Trane, Carrier with everybody I checked with. I found an outfit that would install Goodman units for $6K and that is what I chose. They have been in service for 12 yrs now with one issue. I could have bought the whole system, both units on line for $3k if I could have installed them myself. The main thing to be aware of as far as I know is to make sure the compressors are scroll type. The cheapest units use a cheaper compressor.

 

The one problem with the Goodman units after 9 yrs was the upstairs stopped working and it was diagnosed as a leaky evaporator. I pulled out my original receipt that said all part guaranteed for ten yrs. They said they forgot to register the units and the warranty wasn't validated. I said that sounds like a personal problem because my receipt says it's guaranteed. Anyhow, they replaced the evap in about an hour and charged me $500 for "labor" and refrigerant. They checked the pressures in the downstairs unit and they were a little low but since it was still working ok they didn't troubleshoot it. Just after the 10 yrs lapsed, it quit working. I got my hands on some R402A and found out my old AC gauges that I've had since the 70's fit my heat pumps so I charged it a bit myself and it is still working fine over a year later. So, if you have some auto AC gauges that worked with R12 they will work on the home units too.

 

House is 15 years old.. The evaporater is inside a plentum above the furnace and the condenser is outside sitting on a concrete slab beside the house.. I am not sure what size it is or what refrigerant it is.. I wonder if there is spec plate on either the condenser itself or maybe somewhere on the furnace.. I know that the plentum also supports and has a humidifier attached to the same area as the internal "A FRAME" evaporator.. I hear what @Marcarl is saying but also know that what you are saying is exactly what I noticed by shopping E-Bay... One of those "Goodman" complete condenser units on there for 600 or 800 bucks looks mighty inviting as a repair unit project.. I just thought I could save some cash and have some fun tinkering with it BUT,, I really dont wanna throw away the cash I could have used to hire it done... You know what I mean Sky,, I KNOW you do, your a do it yourselver too.. Anyway,, thanks to both you lop eared varmints for your advice!!

Puc

[uncledj]

You have a couple of options.

First, let me say this has been my career since 1988, so this is the real dope.

If your indoor coil is rated for heat pump use, it can be used with a new (R410) condensing unit.

The heat pump coils were rated 400psi, while the cooling only coils were rated at 150, which is pushing your luck insofar as running the newer high pressure refrigerant. The older R22 coil (low side) would typically run 60-70 psi while the newer 410A runs around 125.

It's been my experience that you've about a 50/50 chance of it being a heat pump rated coil.

If you DO use the existing indoor coil you'll need to change the metering device, which could be as difficult as replacing the TXV (Thermostatic expansion valve) or may be as simple as removing a brass nut, easily accessible and replacing the orifice.

As far as burn out / oil, if it's a bad burn out, you can flush it with RX flush or the like...not very difficult, but more than I'd like to get into by typing the text. If it's not a bad burn out, you can reuse what you have with no issue. They allow like 5 or 10% of the old mineral oil to remain without requiring a flush. There's usually not much oil in the lines / evaporator. Some...but not much...

Beyond that, changing the condensing unit is pretty straighforward. Soldering the new unit to the old lines would be fine, but you should use a silver bearing solder. Stay Brite 8 is my preference. Having a vaccum pump handy would be nice, but you can get away without it....ask me how in a pm.

 

The second and IMHO best option without spending the big bucks would be to replace the existing condensing unit with a good, used older unit that some guy took out of someones home when they wanted to "upgrade" (false) to the new stuff. They can usually be found on Craigslist for anywhere from $100 to $500. Brand doesn't matter, but size does. They're sold in half ton sizes from 1 1/2 on up, typically up to 5 ton for residential. The model number should have some multiple of 6 in it. 12,000 btu being a ton, ...a number of 18 would represent 1 1/2 ton...a number of 24 represents 2 ton...a number 30 represents 2 1/2 ton and so on. Lennox numbers are usually funky and don't stick to that standard.

 

Get your existing unit info to me, and I may even have one out behind the shed that will work that I would offer gratis. Since I did the big cleanout, I got rid of a few of the ones I had, but I did keep a few as well.

 

Last option would be to replace the compressor itself. The old compressors are getting hard to find, but they're still out there if you look.

Compressor change isn't that big a deal either, but a new compressor will likely cost ya neighborhood of 5 bills.

 

Get your info to me and I may be able to help.

 

Did a quick Craigslist search from Central, OH and came across this.

 

https://dayton.craigslist.org/app/d/greenville-used-ac-condensers-various/7123224350.html?lang=en&cc=gb

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by uncledj
Added link

[cowpuc]

You have a couple of options.

First, let me say this has been my career since 1988, so this is the real dope.

If your indoor coil is rated for heat pump use, it can be used with a new (R410) condensing unit.

The heat pump coils were rated 400psi, while the cooling only coils were rated at 150, which is pushing your luck insofar as running the newer high pressure refrigerant. The older R22 coil (low side) would typically run 60-70 psi while the newer 410A runs around 125.

It's been my experience that you've about a 50/50 chance of it being a heat pump rated coil.

If you DO use the existing indoor coil you'll need to change the metering device, which could be as difficult as replacing the TXV (Thermostatic expansion valve) or may be as simple as removing a brass nut, easily accessible and replacing the orifice.

As far as burn out / oil, if it's a bad burn out, you can flush it with RX flush or the like...not very difficult, but more than I'd like to get into by typing the text. If it's not a bad burn out, you can reuse what you have with no issue. They allow like 5 or 10% of the old mineral oil to remain without requiring a flush. There's usually not much oil in the lines / evaporator. Some...but not much...

Beyond that, changing the condensing unit is pretty straighforward. Soldering the new unit to the old lines would be fine, but you should use a silver bearing solder. Stay Brite 8 is my preference. Having a vaccum pump handy would be nice, but you can get away without it....ask me how in a pm.

 

The second and IMHO best option without spending the big bucks would be to replace the existing condensing unit with a good, used older unit that some guy took out of someones home when they wanted to "upgrade" (false) to the new stuff. They can usually be found on Craigslist for anywhere from $100 to $500. Brand doesn't matter, but size does. They're sold in half ton sizes from 1 1/2 on up, typically up to 5 ton for residential. The model number should have some multiple of 6 in it. 12,000 btu being a ton, ...a number of 18 would represent 1 1/2 ton...a number of 24 represents 2 ton...a number 30 represents 2 1/2 ton and so on. Lennox numbers are usually funky and don't stick to that standard.

 

Get you existing unit info to me, and I may even have one out behind the shed that will work that I would offer gratis. Since I did the big cleanout, I got rid of a few of the ones I had, but I did keep a few as well.

 

Last option would be to replace the compressor itself. The old compressors are getting hard to find, but they're still out there if you look.

Compressor change isn't that big a deal either, but a new compressor will likely cost ya neighborhood of 5 bills.

 

Get your info to me and I may be able to help.

 

Thanks Unc!! I will get the info to you just as soon as it quits pouring rain so I can meander outside and look for a spec plate,, or two,, or three!!

 

Puc

[Marcarl]

I'm thinkin @uncledj has the tiger by the tail,,, I just wanted to see how close I could get.

[cowpuc]

Quicky pics of what things look like!!

[BlueSky]

It looks like from the numbers your AC is a 3 ton or 36,000 BTU unit using R22. I just checked ebay and R22 is available for sale.

[uncledj]

Judging by the external appearance,....Indoor setup doesn't look bad at all.

I'd definitely try to find a good, 3 ton R22 unit. Swap-out should be pretty quick and easy.

 

Found this one in Toledo

https://toledo.craigslist.org/for/d/toledo-central-air-conditioner/7091622616.html?lang=en&cc=gb

 

I'll see what I have sitting out back....will let ya know when I get home from work.

Edited May 18, 2020 by uncledj
Added link

[BlueSky]

Or install a new R22 compressor. I think they are available.

[Flyinfool]

Looking from a different perspective, The engineer in me always seems to sneak out, I am trying to visualize the failure analysis. I am trying to visualize what connection the mouse could have made on the outside of the compressor that would burn it up inside?????? The compressor has 3 wires 2 hots and a ground. If the mouse connected either hot to ground it should have blown a fuse or circuit breaker and done no internal damage to the compressor, same if mousy connected the 2 hots, popped breaker and or fuse. BE CAREFUL THIS IS 220vac POWER AND IT CAN DO BAD THINGS TO YOUR TUNNER AND SOFT PARTS CONNECTED TO THE TUNNER) Start by removing the shorted wires so as to do no further damage. Check the whole system for power starting at the compressor and working back to the breaker panel in the basement. There may be more that one protection device in more than one place in the system.

First if the whole unit is wired correctly on the inside, over winter there would be no power at the compressor unless it was cycling on and off all winter???? OR did it burn up when you flipped it on for the first time this spring?

 

The compressor itself is hermetically sealed so any internal damage is not realistically repairable. I am wondering if it just that the mouse eating the wires caused an short external to the compressor and that may can taken out a contactor or other controls. Those should be easy to replace if you can find them. You know a little about how electricity works so I would stick my nose a little farther in there to see if you can get more specific on the exact failure mode. Lately I have seen too many service people that do not repair anything, they are replacers.

 

OK I'll go back to my corner now.........

[uncledj]

All true, and good advice.

I will say that for some time now, the contactors are single pole with one leg of the power to the compressor being constant, and a wire to the start capacitor connected at the line side of the opposite leg of the contactor.

They do this to save $ on a crankcase heater. They're using the start winding to keep the crankcase warm. They limit current through the start winding by running it in series with the start capacitor. This allows enough current to warm the windings, but not enough to overheat.

 

Having said that, I agree. I don't get how anything like a poorly behaved mouse could damage the compressor. I've seen buggly wugglies get into contactors and keep a unit from running when they get between the bridge and post, keeping the circuit from closing. Doesn't turn out too well for the buggly wuggly either.

This needs investigation

Puc: I have a 2 ton, a 2 1/2 ton R410A unit, and while I can't read the label, I have what looks to be a 3 ton York, R22 unit sitting back there. Not the prettiest thing, but I wouldn't have kept it if it didn't work.

​It's yours if you want it.

[cowpuc]

Looking from a different perspective, The engineer in me always seems to sneak out, I am trying to visualize the failure analysis. I am trying to visualize what connection the mouse could have made on the outside of the compressor that would burn it up inside?????? The compressor has 3 wires 2 hots and a ground. If the mouse connected either hot to ground it should have blown a fuse or circuit breaker and done no internal damage to the compressor, same if mousy connected the 2 hots, popped breaker and or fuse. BE CAREFUL THIS IS 220vac POWER AND IT CAN DO BAD THINGS TO YOUR TUNNER AND SOFT PARTS CONNECTED TO THE TUNNER) Start by removing the shorted wires so as to do no further damage. Check the whole system for power starting at the compressor and working back to the breaker panel in the basement. There may be more that one protection device in more than one place in the system.

First if the whole unit is wired correctly on the inside, over winter there would be no power at the compressor unless it was cycling on and off all winter???? OR did it burn up when you flipped it on for the first time this spring?

 

The compressor itself is hermetically sealed so any internal damage is not realistically repairable. I am wondering if it just that the mouse eating the wires caused an short external to the compressor and that may can taken out a contactor or other controls. Those should be easy to replace if you can find them. You know a little about how electricity works so I would stick my nose a little farther in there to see if you can get more specific on the exact failure mode. Lately I have seen too many service people that do not repair anything, they are replacers.

 

OK I'll go back to my corner now.........

 

Absolutely no need to go back in your corner ya lop eared WWW snow monster varmint!! I am tracking 100% with you Jeff and thank you and appreciate your input!! It's been a while since I opened up the cabinet and found the mouse chewed wiring and did the testing and all that,, it went down right at the beginning of my health failing, I stuck a 12000 btu shacker in bedroom window to stay cool while dealing with all the health stuff that took me off my feet for a bit.. From memory,, as I recall,, a mouse/chipmunk got into the control/terminal box on the side of the condenser cabinet.. It managed to chew thru the ground wire in the harness going down to the motor. The stripped ground wire managed to connect with one of the hot wires (I can't remember if it was a one of the leads going down to the motor or if it was high voltage lugged up on the controls that touched the ground wire,, I think it was one of the hots in the motor harness). I do remember cutting the bad section out of the ground wire and butt splicing it. When I was unable to get the compressor to start I pulled the harness from the compressor and it tested bad,, I believe it tested open on one of the hot legs going into the compressor windings - going from memory.. I did some digging, thinking the compressor would be thermally protected and found out that the thermal protection for that compressor was internal of the hermatically sealed unit.. I then did some digging and found out that yes, it was possible to open it up by tossing the unit on a lathe and opening the compressor and replacing the internal "fuse" and then rewelding the compressor.. At that point I called in a pro to get an opinion on my options and was told they did not repair compressors,, way to expensive and that I would need to replace from the A Frame evap coils back consendser.. I called a couple more installers to see how the price thing looked.. At that time between 2 and 3 grand was where the bids fell..

I been feeling a little more productive these days (actually awake more then 4 hours a day lately) and was contemplating the air unit and maybe grabbing a condenser and installing myself and that is why I posted here,, just to get some thoughts.. I do plan on going back out and retesting the motor while videoing myself so you guru's can crap detect me.. I was actually hoping to do that today and getting a plan established before the heat sets in BUT,, then this MASSIVE flood started so the entire air unit project is gonna be side lined for a bit.. After that last 6 inches of rain fell last night I have been busy with gas/power/internet outages and helping others with sump pump installs as well as replacing one of my own and unplugging a sump line to move some of the water around,, it's gone insane here!!! All while social distancing of course!!

 

A couple pictures of todays challenges (the pic of the radar shot is from last night as we were in chat!!) that we woke up to - 6 inches of rain on top of a completely saturated area:

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by cowpuc

[cowpuc]

Judging by the external appearance,....Indoor setup doesn't look bad at all.

I'd definitely try to find a good, 3 ton R22 unit. Swap-out should be pretty quick and easy.

 

Found this one in Toledo

https://toledo.craigslist.org/for/d/toledo-central-air-conditioner/7091622616.html?lang=en&cc=gb

 

I'll see what I have sitting out back....will let ya know when I get home from work.

it

Hi Unc!! Thanks again for the input!! I am gonna have to sideline my condenser project for a tad (see pics above) and get back to it as soon as the flood waters recede here.. THANK YOU for your assistance to this point brother, will reconnect soon with some more pics of the condenser and a reject video on my testing of the motor as we chatted about! Thank you!!

[Flyinfool]

OK Unc, I can see that with the cap in series with one of the legs. That will also explain pucs open reading when checking for continuity. An ohm meter uses DC to check resistance, and a cap will block DC current flow hence the open that Puc is seeing.

 

Puc you would have to measure for continuity by checking just the motor leads without the cap if it is in a place where you can get to the connections to bypass it.

Check to see if when the thermostat calls for cool is there 220VAC at the 2 motor wires. If not then the issue is elsewhere and needs to be tracked.

Since the cap is in series there is also a possibility that the cap is bad.

 

I aint gived up on ya yet Puc, let us know when you are done bailing.

[Flyinfool]

Oh Yea, You mentioned that you have a window job for a while. Do the math before you spend thousands on a new central unit. I did the math and it is way cheaper to run 2 window units to cool the house that it would be to do the central air. It was cheaper at both ends, both daily operating and initial purchase and installation costs. Just sumptin else to think about.

[cowpuc]

All true, and good advice.

I will say that for some time now, the contactors are single pole with one leg of the power to the compressor being constant, and a wire to the start capacitor connected at the line side of the opposite leg of the contactor.

They do this to save $ on a crankcase heater. They're using the start winding to keep the crankcase warm. They limit current through the start winding by running it in series with the start capacitor. This allows enough current to warm the windings, but not enough to overheat.

 

Having said that, I agree. I don't get how anything like a poorly behaved mouse could damage the compressor. I've seen buggly wugglies get into contactors and keep a unit from running when they get between the bridge and post, keeping the circuit from closing. Doesn't turn out too well for the buggly wuggly either.

This needs investigation

Puc: I have a 2 ton, a 2 1/2 ton R410A unit, and while I can't read the label, I have what looks to be a 3 ton York, R22 unit sitting back there. Not the prettiest thing, but I wouldn't have kept it if it didn't work.

​It's yours if you want it.

 

Unc,, I am sorry I totally missed your post here when posting earlier,, thinking you must have been in the process of making it while I was doing mine and beat me to the draw!! THANK YOU for taking the time to dig around and for offering up the 3 tonner!! I GREATLY APPRECIATE IT UNC!! YOU DA MAN!!

As soon as we get some of this flood crisis under control, I will do a retest on the compressor that I believe is shot and double/triple recheck my past testing to be sure that I am on the right track and proceed from there brother! Thanks again for the support both professionally and as a friend - I DEFINITELY appreciate it!!

By the way,, as far as the unit not be pretty? You know me Unc,, I look wayyy past the skin on the outside,, if its to bad I can always cover it with stickers LOL:big-grin-emoticon:

[frankd]

Puc,

 

I agree 100% with FlyinFool. I don't see any way a critter getting fried could affect the compressor internals. Did you disconnect the connections at the compressor and check for continuity on the compressor windings (should read a couple of tenths of an ohm)? Check from the connections to compressor case (should read infinity)? Any chance the capacitor went bad and you have 2 problems?

 

Frank D.

[cowpuc]

OK Unc, I can see that with the cap in series with one of the legs. That will also explain pucs open reading when checking for continuity. An ohm meter uses DC to check resistance, and a cap will block DC current flow hence the open that Puc is seeing.

 

Puc you would have to measure for continuity by checking just the motor leads without the cap if it is in a place where you can get to the connections to bypass it.

Check to see if when the thermostat calls for cool is there 220VAC at the 2 motor wires. If not then the issue is elsewhere and needs to be tracked.

Since the cap is in series there is also a possibility that the cap is bad.

 

I aint gived up on ya yet Puc, let us know when you are done bailing.

 

I actually unplugged the harness down at the motor so just the 3 terminals were exposed on the side of its case Jeff.. I then did my testing there to avoiding testing thru any of the devices up stream from the actual compressor.. Thanks for not giving up on me brother,, as soon as this flood crisis is over I will pop the lid on the cabinet the compressor sets in and redo my testing and do so while videoing so you guru's can have a peek and input with this type of awesome advice!

[cowpuc]

Puc,

 

I agree 100% with FlyinFool. I don't see any way a critter getting fried could affect the compressor internals. Did you disconnect the connections at the compressor and check for continuity on the compressor windings (should read a couple of tenths of an ohm)? Check from the connections to compressor case (should read infinity)? Any chance the capacitor went bad and you have 2 problems?

 

Frank D.

 

Frank,, please see reply above to Fool,, what you describe is exactly how I tested it.. Going from memory,, there was a harness going into the compressor compartment of the cabinet that consisted of 3 wires - x2 110 volt AC

leads and X1 smaller ground wire. The harness was removable from the compressor case via a female terminal on the harness itself that plugged into a male terminal that was/is located on the compressor itself.. The chewing spot was on the ground section of this harness found on the section of the harness that was located up in the controls/device area in the cainet.. I remember cleaning up the chewed area by splicing that ground with a butt splice and turning the air back on,, with nothing happening!! Thats when I tossed the high volt disconnect for the unit thinking I may have missed a chewed off wire somewhere, pulled the cabinet top, removed the cooling fan, pulled the harness from the compressor and tested it with a Volt/Ohm meter and discovered the windings had an open.. I doubled checked everywhere on the compressor and even checked a road map (what I always called a Schematic) looking for thermal protection device for the compressor and discovered that it is thermally protected INTERNALLY - arrrggg.. Then got my quotes and got sick and am still here and now bugging you guys

[Poppa Phill]

You have a couple of options.

First, let me say this has been my career since 1988, so this is the real dope.

If your indoor coil is rated for heat pump use, it can be used with a new (R410) condensing unit.

The heat pump coils were rated 400psi, while the cooling only coils were rated at 150, which is pushing your luck insofar as running the newer high pressure refrigerant. The older R22 coil (low side) would typically run 60-70 psi while the newer 410A runs around 125.

It's been my experience that you've about a 50/50 chance of it being a heat pump rated coil.

If you DO use the existing indoor coil you'll need to change the metering device, which could be as difficult as replacing the TXV (Thermostatic expansion valve) or may be as simple as removing a brass nut, easily accessible and replacing the orifice.

As far as burn out / oil, if it's a bad burn out, you can flush it with RX flush or the like...not very difficult, but more than I'd like to get into by typing the text. If it's not a bad burn out, you can reuse what you have with no issue. They allow like 5 or 10% of the old mineral oil to remain without requiring a flush. There's usually not much oil in the lines / evaporator. Some...but not much...

Beyond that, changing the condensing unit is pretty straighforward. Soldering the new unit to the old lines would be fine, but you should use a silver bearing solder. Stay Brite 8 is my preference. Having a vaccum pump handy would be nice, but you can get away without it....ask me how in a pm.

 

The second and IMHO best option without spending the big bucks would be to replace the existing condensing unit with a good, used older unit that some guy took out of someones home when they wanted to "upgrade" (false) to the new stuff. They can usually be found on Craigslist for anywhere from $100 to $500. Brand doesn't matter, but size does. They're sold in half ton sizes from 1 1/2 on up, typically up to 5 ton for residential. The model number should have some multiple of 6 in it. 12,000 btu being a ton, ...a number of 18 would represent 1 1/2 ton...a number of 24 represents 2 ton...a number 30 represents 2 1/2 ton and so on. Lennox numbers are usually funky and don't stick to that standard.

 

Get your existing unit info to me, and I may even have one out behind the shed that will work that I would offer gratis. Since I did the big cleanout, I got rid of a few of the ones I had, but I did keep a few as well.

 

Last option would be to replace the compressor itself. The old compressors are getting hard to find, but they're still out there if you look.

Compressor change isn't that big a deal either, but a new compressor will likely cost ya neighborhood of 5 bills.

 

Get your info to me and I may be able to help.

 

Did a quick Craigslist search from Central, OH and came across this.

 

https://dayton.craigslist.org/app/d/greenville-used-ac-condensers-various/7123224350.html?lang=en&cc=gb

 

 

Listen to the Man, He knows his stuff and pretty Spot on with regards to the inside coil. Sometime after 2002, Georgia became the lets steal the compresser coils State as the price of copper hit a ceiling and took the roof with it. Not too long after while sopme of these newly installed units wereyet under warranty a Law was passed barring DIY purchase of good to help the average Tec minded Joe. If you could solder do minimal quality electrical work ( follow instructions and youtube) you could repair swap your own system, R22 if you can find some will hit you at $50 - $75 lb if you can find it.

They was so much pressure on the industry there, that some folks were forced to upgrade to a new system if for some reason they only lost a line and only needed a Vac an recharge after repair. At the same time the 410 was right at $110 a can vrs the $50lb for R22.Its a serious Mess. was I you I would take the offered advice literally Per the Quote or prepare the Fork over dance. Theres a tag plate on your outside unit with the needed info, might have to remove some covers to access it. If there is NO TAG Plate, STOP. its too old to monkey with unless its a heatpump meaning it was/is used to heat as well as cool as stated increasing the odds of compatibility.

I still have an account with a supplier that moves tons of this stuff. If you wind up in the pickle jar, I will work with our Brother here as Im too unfamiliar with this stuff anymore to call any shots , but can help with aquisistion. I will straight up give you the site and phone number and yawl go at it. I dont need want anyboys money or cuts. just doing my part for whats its worth to help out.

Good luck on the repairs .

My 2 cents.

[cowpuc]

Listen to the Man, He knows his stuff and pretty Spot on with regards to the inside coil. Sometime after 2002, Georgia became the lets steal the compresser coils State as the price of copper hit a ceiling and took the roof with it. Not too long after while sopme of these newly installed units wereyet under warranty a Law was passed barring DIY purchase of good to help the average Tec minded Joe. If you could solder do minimal quality electrical work ( follow instructions and youtube) you could repair swap your own system, R22 if you can find some will hit you at $50 - $75 lb if you can find it.

They was so much pressure on the industry there, that some folks were forced to upgrade to a new system if for some reason they only lost a line and only needed a Vac an recharge after repair. At the same time the 410 was right at $110 a can vrs the $50lb for R22.Its a serious Mess. was I you I would take the offered advice literally Per the Quote or prepare the Fork over dance. Theres a tag plate on your outside unit with the needed info, might have to remove some covers to access it. If there is NO TAG Plate, STOP. its too old to monkey with unless its a heatpump meaning it was/is used to heat as well as cool as stated increasing the odds of compatibility.

I still have an account with a supplier that moves tons of this stuff. If you wind up in the pickle jar, I will work with our Brother here as Im too unfamiliar with this stuff anymore to call any shots , but can help with aquisistion. I will straight up give you the site and phone number and yawl go at it. I dont need want anyboys money or cuts. just doing my part for whats its worth to help out.

Good luck on the repairs .

My 2 cents.

 

THANK YOU Poppa for your sound advice and extremely kind offer! Both are GREATLY appreciated! From a totally clueless innocent bystander victims perspective - it will be interesting to see how this all plays out

[Poppa Phill]

THANK YOU Poppa for your sound advice and extremely kind offer! Both are GREATLY appreciated! From a totally clueless innocent bystander victims perspective - it will be interesting to see how this all plays out

You are most welcome. I have found its easier to offer backup to sound advice than to offer a different perspective based on personal preferences when the previous advice is solid. Just because I might do something a smidge different dont make the previous statements invalid or worth arguing.

Its always a good thing to Back someone up vrs creating more dust when theres work to be done. If theres solid leadership in play get behind em and Getter Did!

[Flyinfool]

I was able to come up with one possible scenario where a critter MIGHT be able to do internal compressor damage.

The critter would have to chew off one of the hot leads including chewing thru the copper (this part is unlikely, most critters do not chew metal) the hot side of that wire would have to stay clear of all grounds, and the compressor side would have to be connected to a ground. This would let the motor in the compressor try to run at 110V which would burn up the motor. This would have been one talented critter.