carb sync issue

[Patch]

See little brother,, there ya go again,, making another claim I simply do not subscribe to... Have I ever dealt with a stuck ring,, of course, but never ever in one of my V-4's - no common issue there IMHO. Have I ever experienced rings gone to high limit or had valve lash gone tight, dozens of times but again,, never ever on one of my V-4's - no common issue there IMHO. Frankly,, this is one of the reasons I chose and have ridden the V-4 Venture as my CTFW cross country family go-to bike since 1987.. Besides never needing to spend more than a grand for one (less than 1/2 that for a couple just cause they were already missing 2nd gear) and getting well over 200,000 miles out of that thousand dollars coupled with the durability of these machines has just been amazing!!

IMHO,,, most of the sync jobs on these V-4's end up being just that,, a simple sync job (because they do go out of sync due to the mechanical nature of the carb linkages).. My advice,, pick up a set of vacuum gauges or a Carb Tune or make a set of Manometers (used to have and used a mercury sticks but those days are longgg gone) or what ever and learn to just do a simple sync job.. Your scoot will love you for it!!

 

,, you ever make a Poll little brother? Its kinda fun!! You should make a Club Poll asking how many of these lop eared Yamaha V-4 riding VR club varmints have experienced stuck rings or worn out to high limit rings or valve lash gone tight (If I had to bet money, I would bet that the valve lash going tight will have wayyyy more positive votes than the ring wear as, even though I have never needed to do one in any of my bikes, I have read of numerous occasions of varmints setting their valves) just to see exactly how accurate your claim above is!! Unless your skeered too:witch_brew: :rasberry:

 

PUC YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING RIGHT?

High limit is carbon related, rings go the other way towards low limits. Now I know that the Yam's have very good components so ware is extended or say duty cycles, no argument there.

Every single valve stretches, over duty periods, so they get tight, lash lost.

Stuck rings are in every engine that has sat for long periods, some free themselves, others buried in carbon won't. And I have first hand experience on such with these fours

Write Mikuni, express your experience and disagreements with and regarding Venture engines.

Makes no difference how many times you add incorrect procedures, they still add to the same unknowns!

Now get your sneakers ready and catch over at Mama Cafe soonish

 

PS. Freebird, nice to see you engage again

[Patch]

I just spent more time than it takes to perform a carb sync trying to find an adequate French word for condescending.

Can anyone help me?

s

 

I don't think it applies to me but; I might be prejudice in this opinion

 

 

"C'est quoi être condescendant ?Une personne condescendante est donc une personne méprisante, qui prend les gens de haut, qui les traite avec arrogance. Les synonymes de condescendant sont, justement, arrogant, méprisant, hautain, supérieur, dédaigneux. On parle d'un ton condescendant, d'un air condescendant.Feb 26, 2018

 

 

[saddlebum]

Its always been my experience that checking compression just for the heck of doing it when there are no other symptoms is just less time spent riding. Now if you happen to have the plugs out to do a spark plug change, and you are curious, well then it won't hurt to do a compression check at that point if you felt the urge (and I did say Urge not need) to do one just to satisfy your curiosity. though the odds of finding poor compression on these bikes is pretty slim (not impossible But pretty slim) and there again, if there is a compression issue, you usually will notice something off in the way the bike runs, which BTW is more likely than not, because of issues other than compression.

 

Now to really throw a wrench in the works if I was looking into a compression related issue, I would be more inclined to perform a cylinder leak down test than a compression test because a leak down test tells you so much more than a compression test will as well as doing a better job of pin pointing the root cause and source of any compression loss should such a condition exist.

Edited May 8, 2020 by saddlebum

[Patch]

A leak own will tell you whether it intake, exhaust or rings after the compression test, on a gas engine.

 

Now tell me I am wrong, I dare you... I double dare you....

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

This is correct.....

 

 

So can someone just confirm if my understanding is correct:

 

a) The two Philips screws accessed from right side of the bike(one with long screwdriver) adjust balance single carbs front to rear.

b) The one flat head screw accessed from left side of bike balance left bank to right bank.

 

I just did my 02 last weekend. I know the las mechanic that tried to sync them after some work on the bike tried for two hours with just a two line manometer and never got it right... I battled the bike home and had them set up in about 10 minutes.

[cowpuc]

PUC YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING RIGHT?

High limit is carbon related, rings go the other way towards low limits. Now I know that the Yam's have very good components so ware is extended or say duty cycles, no argument there.

Every single valve stretches, over duty periods, so they get tight, lash lost.

Stuck rings are in every engine that has sat for long periods, some free themselves, others buried in carbon won't. And I have first hand experience on such with these fours

Write Mikuni, express your experience and disagreements with and regarding Venture engines.

Makes no difference how many times you add incorrect procedures, they still add to the same unknowns!

Now get your sneakers ready and catch over at Mama Cafe soonish

 

PS. Freebird, nice to see you engage again

 

Noooo,, not kidding at all!! You take that Poll yet? Dont make me do it little brother,, you know how that will turn out!!

[cowpuc]

A leak own will tell you whether it intake, exhaust or rings after the compression test, on a gas engine.

 

Now tell me I am wrong, I dare you... I double dare you....

 

 

 

A leak down test uses compressed air to see if the compressed air will leak past combustion chamber components so a good leak tester can easily used to skip the step of using a compression tester in the first place.. Years ago I stuck a spark plug in a lathe and knocked the center out of it and installed a shrader valve in to it,, roll the engine up to TDC on the compression stroke,then I would screw the plug into the head of the unsuspecting engine - hit with compressed air like filling a tire using low pressure (careful if doing this to a lawn mower - watch the blade if your hanging onto it - it will instantly take off and can get ya) and listen.. I found many bad valves/seats/rings/blown headgaskets and on and on using that cheap little tool.. Got to the point I very seldom used my compression tester..If I suspected compromised compression I just grabbed one of my altered spark plugs..

[venturesome]

s

 

I don't think it applies to me but; I might be prejudice in this opinion

 

 

"C'est quoi être condescendant ?Une personne condescendante est donc une personne méprisante, qui prend les gens de haut, qui les traite avec arrogance. Les synonymes de condescendant sont, justement, arrogant, méprisant, hautain, supérieur, dédaigneux. On parle d'un ton condescendant, d'un air condescendant.Feb 26, 2018

 

 

 

It's all in fun, Patch! I enjoy reading the practical vs the perfect.

[Patch]

It's all in fun, Patch! I enjoy reading the practical vs the perfect.

Brother I know it! I am so use to what my very much older brothers have forgotten that I almost feel lost when they aint pickin on me!

Just so y'all know: they say I'm rattin on them when I tells Mama but, I just enjoy the whoopin thats a comin their way!

 

Now pardon my french while I deal with Puc

[Patch]

A leak down test uses compressed air to see if the compressed air will leak past combustion chamber components so a good leak tester can easily used to skip the step of using a compression tester in the first place.. Years ago I stuck a spark plug in a lathe and knocked the center out of it and installed a shrader valve in to it,, roll the engine up to TDC on the compression stroke,then I would screw the plug into the head of the unsuspecting engine - hit with compressed air like filling a tire using low pressure (careful if doing this to a lawn mower - watch the blade if your hanging onto it - it will instantly take off and can get ya) and listen.. I found many bad valves/seats/rings/blown headgaskets and on and on using that cheap little tool.. Got to the point I very seldom used my compression tester..If I suspected compromised compression I just grabbed one of my altered spark plugs..

 

I so worry about you Brothers! Like what are y'all going to do when u's drive me completely crazy and dey lock me up in a watctcha call rubberized room?

 

Now lookit Puc, don't need no lathe to knock down an old sparky plug, just dooo it!

Had mine goin on since still haven long hair, no biggy, just that I's knows when to use it.

I don't do mowers so I agree iffin I did I might have a tadd of a learnin curve, ya got me beet der!

But now da one thing I does know is how to make performance engine perform. Stic datder in your corn pipe and smokes it! Dat der goes for ya 2 Bum

[Patch]

Noooo,, not kidding at all!! You take that Poll yet? Dont make me do it little brother,, you know how that will turn out!!

 

Now how do I ask the question iffin no body check cause you keep sayin not too!

You really think you got all the smarts cause u was born ahead of me?

[cowpuc]

Now how do I ask the question iffin no body check cause you keep sayin not too!

You really think you got all the smarts cause u was born ahead of me?

 

So a guy walks into a doctors office and says Dr.,,, I feel like others are just smarter than me.. The Dr. says I got just the thing for you and hands him a brown RX bottle.. He tells the guy they are Smart Pills and tells him to take 1 pill 3 times a day.. Guy comes back a week later and tells the Doctor he is not feeling any smarter.. The Doctor ups the dosage to 2 pills at 3 times per day.. The guy comes back a week later and says still nothing.. The Doctor ups the dosage one more time to 4 pills at 3 times per day.. The next week the guys came back, says he still feels no change but then makes a comment to the Dr. that those little round pills are starting to taste like Rabbit poop.. Dr. says,, you are getting smarter

 

Patch my little brother,, your getting smarter

[cowpuc]

I so worry about you Brothers! Like what are y'all going to do when u's drive me completely crazy and dey lock me up in a watctcha call rubberized room?

 

Now lookit Puc, don't need no lathe to knock down an old sparky plug, just dooo it!

Had mine goin on since still haven long hair, no biggy, just that I's knows when to use it.

I don't do mowers so I agree iffin I did I might have a tadd of a learnin curve, ya got me beet der!

But now da one thing I does know is how to make performance engine perform. Stic datder in your corn pipe and smokes it! Dat der goes for ya 2 Bum

 

Last call on doing the Poll little brother.. If you dont do it I am going to!! I aint scared!

[ReCycled]

This is correct.....

 

 

So can someone just confirm if my understanding is correct:

 

a) The two Philips screws accessed from right side of the bike(one with long screwdriver) adjust balance single carbs front to rear.

b) The one flat head screw accessed from left side of bike balance left bank to right bank.

 

I just did my 02 last weekend. I know the las mechanic that tried to sync them after some work on the bike tried for two hours with just a two line manometer and never got it right... I battled the bike home and had them set up in about 10 minutes.

 

 

THANK YOU! This thread seems to have taken a turn.

 

I'm waiting for some silicone sealant to dry then I will see if my first attempt of making a four port manometer was successful. I've made them for 2 cylinder bikes with nothing more than clear vinyl tubing and plywood. I've seen similar 4cyl versions using T fittings but I didn't have any... So I put all four tubes into a common container and sealed it.

[saddlebum]

I started doing leak down tests back in the seventies when just an apprentice before I even knew such a test existed. I came up with the idea when doing compression tests on 2 stroke Detroit diesel engines. The procedure on these to do a compression test was to replace an injector with an adapter which in my case I made up out of an old injector, a 1000 PSI gauge and check valve. You then reassemble the engine and get a compression reading while the engine was running on the remaining cylinders which would be at approx 600 psi running compression as per spec. You had to repeat the entire procedure for all each cylinder which depending on the engine could be 4, 6 or 8 cylinders (more if you worked on stationary engines).

 

This got to be tedious and you still had to isolate the source ofthe leak if you found a bad cylinder. I came up with the idea of connecting the shop air line directly to the adapter and with the piston at TDC listening for air leakage. Since there is always some leakage I would listen for differences between cylinders, the bad ones being more pronounced than the rest. I would then listen to see if air was loudest coming form the intake, crankcase or exhaust pipe which would tell me the root cause of compression loss. I later started using it on all engines and found I really no longer need to use the compression gauge. If air came from the exhaust I had bad exhaust valves. If it came from the intake I had bad intake valves and if I could hear it in the crankcase I had bad rings. Of course I should explain with the Detroit leaky intake valves never occurred because the Detroit did not have intake valve. so if you heard air coming out of the intake on a Detroit you had bad rings because the piston itself was the intake valve. The only down side here is that in a 4 stroke a compression test can indicate bad valve timing were a leak down test cannot.

 

Later I got more sophisticated and made up a tool with dual gauges separated with a re-stricter in the line between the two gauges. you set set your air pressure to 100 psi on the 1st gauge and read the pressure on the second gauge the difference is your percentage of leakage. less than 20% difference is acceptable. the difference is the result of air leaking out faster than it can move through the restriction hence the difference in pressure.

 

You can also fabricate a simple one with a single gauge and a shutoff valve after the gauge (My 1st fabrication) you close the valve, set to 100 PSI, Open the valve and note the difference.

[cecdoo]

THANK YOU! This thread seems to have taken a turn.

 

I'm waiting for some silicone sealant to dry then I will see if my first attempt of making a four port manometer was successful. I've made them for 2 cylinder bikes with nothing more than clear vinyl tubing and plywood. I've seen similar 4cyl versions using T fittings but I didn't have any... So I put all four tubes into a common container and sealed it.

 

 

Hey if it ever warms up here in Pa. take a 45 min ride over to my place and we can throw the carb tune on her and have you synced in 10 min.

Its a good thing you did not ask what time it is.... Think they would have built you a clock:nanner:

 

All in fun guys, I enjoy the banter

 

Craig

[saddlebum]

THANK YOU! This thread seems to have taken a turn.

Hey it's all Patch's fault He be the one that steered this thread into the compression thingy. Just ask cowpuc

[cowpuc]

I started doing leak down tests back in the seventies when just an apprentice before I even knew such a test existed. I came up with the idea when doing compression tests on 2 stroke Detroit diesel engines. The procedure on these to do a compression test was to replace an injector with an adapter which in my case I made up out of an old injector, a 1000 PSI gauge and check valve. You then reassemble the engine and get a compression reading while the engine was running on the remaining cylinders which would be at approx 600 psi running compression as per spec. You had to repeat the entire procedure for all each cylinder which depending on the engine could be 4, 6 or 8 cylinders (more if you worked on stationary engines).

 

This got to be tedious and you still had to isolate the source ofthe leak if you found a bad cylinder. I came up with the idea of connecting the shop air line directly to the adapter and with the piston at TDC listening for air leakage. Since there is always some leakage I would listen for differences between cylinders, the bad ones being more pronounced than the rest. I would then listen to see if air was loudest coming form the intake, crankcase or exhaust pipe which would tell me the root cause of compression loss. I later started using it on all engines and found I really no longer need to use the compression gauge. If air came from the exhaust I had bad exhaust valves. If it came from the intake I had bad intake valves and if I could hear it in the crankcase I had bad rings. Of course I should explain with the Detroit leaky intake valves never occurred because the Detroit did not have intake valve. so if you heard air coming out of the intake on a Detroit you had bad rings because the piston itself was the intake valve. The only down side here is that in a 4 stroke a compression test can indicate bad valve timing were a leak down test cannot.

 

Later I got more sophisticated and made up a tool with dual gauges separated with a re-stricter in the line between the two gauges. you set set your air pressure to 100 psi on the 1st gauge and read the pressure on the second gauge the difference is your percentage of leakage. less than 20% difference is acceptable. the difference is the result of air leaking out faster than it can move through the restriction hence the difference in pressure.

 

You can also fabricate a simple one with a single gauge and a shutoff valve after the gauge (My 1st fabrication) you close the valve, set to 100 PSI, Open the valve and note the difference.

 

Genius shines brightest when necessity becomes the mother of invention - Puc

 

[cowpuc]

Hey it's all Patch's fault He be the one that steered this thread into the compression thingy. Just ask cowpuc

 

Yep,, my little brother is ALWAYS :witch_brew::stirthepot:!! Dont tell @YamaMama though,, she still thinks her little frenchy is a perfect

[Patch]

THANK YOU! This thread seems to have taken a turn.

 

I'm waiting for some silicone sealant to dry then I will see if my first attempt of making a four port manometer was successful. I've made them for 2 cylinder bikes with nothing more than clear vinyl tubing and plywood. I've seen similar 4cyl versions using T fittings but I didn't have any... So I put all four tubes into a common container and sealed it.

 

Yes ReCycled we tend to go off track but not without cause. As you are new to the club this may be a bit of a surprise for you. What many of have found here at VR is a social group with a wealth of combined experience easily share when prompted, often with a touch of humor our.

I have read a couple of your threads, what I see is a fellow with questions to solve, I enjoy your approach to the problems thus far.

Turns out last night the brothers and I were discussing what you mentioned above (highlighted) we were of course not in agreement after all why stall out a good mental exercise.

That said you mention container so in my mind I convert that to Vessel; now depending on the material of the vessel and of course shape you may or may not have had a tunable bleeder? That vessel also has a different applicable definition which broke down into cause & effect would become a readable tool.

If any of that helps you find your way in developing the idea. You can also buy a sync gauge thru the forum, one of our members has been developing one for many years!

So closing here, the measurements of what you are wanting to do in this thread, apply to both threads I read of yours!

 

 

Later I got more sophisticated and made up a tool with dual gauges separated with a re-stricter in the line between the two gauges. you set set your air pressure to 100 psi on the 1st gauge and read the pressure on the second gauge the difference is your percentage of leakage. less than 20% difference is acceptable. the difference is the result of air leaking out faster than it can move through the restriction hence the difference in pressure.

 

You can also fabricate a simple one with a single gauge and a shutoff valve after the gauge (My 1st fabrication) you close the valve, set to 100 PSI, Open the valve and note the difference.

 

So that is what it boils down to, of course in these engines we only get a 5% +/- before Mikuni views it as a washing machine.

A compression test in my mind on these bikes is still will remain the proper first step for at least till you know how the bike meets bench marks!

PS. I hope Carl new I was talking Head Covers not heads last night? lol

[ReCycled]

Hey if it ever warms up here in Pa. take a 45 min ride over to my place and we can throw the carb tune on her and have you synced in 10 min.

Its a good thing you did not ask what time it is.... Think they would have built you a clock:nanner:

 

All in fun guys, I enjoy the banter

 

Craig

 

 

 

Thanks Craig I may just do that, It's been a year or two since I visited The Pagoda

 

My first homemade attempt didn't go so well, just didn't seal well. Not that I'm really opposed to spending $100 for the tool, but I'm enjoying the chance to MacGuyver it.

 

I did get them back to reasonably close using the single port gauge mode on my tester.

[cowpuc]

Thanks Craig I may just do that, It's been a year or two since I visited The Pagoda

 

My first homemade attempt didn't go so well, just didn't seal well. Not that I'm really opposed to spending $100 for the tool, but I'm enjoying the chance to MacGuyver it.

 

I did get them back to reasonably close using the single port gauge mode on my tester.

 

This is probably gonna sound crazy but I have suffered with that MacGuyver bug throughout my entire life,, just cant get enough MacGuverizing.. I also have thourougly enjoyed a lifetime of testing products to see if they actually stand up to the legends the companies promote them with..

In that spirit I gotta tell you about a product I discovered a product that you may find useful.. I once got one of my 1st Gens tipped over on a mountain side while out CTFW in the west.. After collecting my thoughts I realized there was no way to upright my bike so I ended up rolling it all the way upside down and over to get it uprighted.. In the process, one of my saddle bags got smashed up pretty badly.. I stitched it back together again with zip ties and went about my business.. Years later Tip and I were on our way home from Americade in NY, got caught in a HUGE thunderstorm w/ flooding.. We hit a piece of watered out highway so hard that it nocked the mudflap of the front tire and Tips feet right off the passenger bags.. 2 days later I noticed water dripping from the saddlebag I had repaired years earlier.. I opened the bag and found my tools still underwater.. I had tried a bunch of sealents/adhesives to seal the bag up before this, this time I tried something different.. I tried this product called E-6000.. WOWZY WOW WOW WOW, was I impressed.. So much so that I actually switched my decades long go to for diaphram repair product (YamaBond 5) to this product as it proved more than worthy for that application.. I have hunch that you may find E-6000 to be exactly the product you are looking for!! I get mine from the local Family Dollar for a couple bucks a tube!!

Ohh,, by the way,, I think it was a dear friend of mine, @videoarizona , who once told me that he used to use this stuff either in the military or in road work for attaching reflectors to roadways or someway.. Could be wrong... Regardless,, IMHO the stuff is amazing!!

 

[ReCycled]

So just a follow up and end of story;

 

My MacGuyver skills failed me this time around. The part of the story I'd left out was someone had given the remnants of an old mercury crabstick. The collector at the bottom had lost its seal and in my testing process I realized the flexible tubing had become too soft over the years to yield accurate results.

 

I started to search the internet for homemade designs and put together a parts list. During the Googling, the Pro Motion tool came up available at Revzilla … that was the lightbulb moment when I remembered I had store credit there after buying some riding gear a couple of years back. It was only going to cost me $50 to buy the right tool anyway.

 

Bottom line; ten minutes to assemble tool and get familiar then ten minutes for fine tuning the adjustments