Trying to Add Extra Brake Lighs

[BratmanXj]

This is going to be a long post with lots of photos & videos.... Long story short, I'm trying to add Run-Brake-Turn LED strips like my buddy's bike and they aren't working as expected. Hoping someone here can help me out.

 

I purchased an Aux Light Harness from Steve (aka M61A1MECH) and some 12" 3-way LED light bars from M-FactoryStore on good reviews from my Kawi riding buddies.

 

I try to wire the lights up by the directions & wiring diagrams:

 

 

The instructions from the lights

 

The instructions on the jumper harness from Steve

 

My actual wiring the with:

Black - Black for Ground

Blue - Red for Running lights

Yellow - White for Brake Lights

I didn't show the Brown/Green turns in this photo....

 

The Run/Brake lights work as expected, but my turn signals are completely out of whack almost like the LED's are not getting enough voltage for the yellow turn to over-ride the red brake lights. I have a custom dynamics brake light board in the factory lens, but the turn signals are all incandescent bulbs. Anyone else ever experience this?

[BratmanXj]

Here's a video of my ridding buddies Kawi Nomad with the exact same lights....

[cowpuc]

I dont know sqwat about nuttin but my gut tells me that trying to interface the OEM Venture blinker modual with a digital demand may be a no no. I think I would look into an after market digital blinker modual. Now lets wait 4 someone who has a clue to chime in and see how close that was!

[M61A1MECH]

The videos are both set tp private and cannot be viewed.

Do you stil have the OEM turns, brake and tail light connected? If yes try unplugging the harness end that goes bak towards the fender keeping the breakout harness connected to the new auxillary lights. That may tell us something.

 

There is no obvious reason I can see why this set up should not work as planned.

 

Also try taking the ground for new auxillary lights directly to a good frame ground or the battery negitive terminal.

 

Let us know how you make out.

[Flyinfool]

First off I never connect anything to a frame ground unless its design leaves me no choice, I have a big terminal block mounted near the battery for all the ground wires. Steel has a much higher resistance per foot than copper wire does and connections to steel like to corrode over time, leaving you to chase lighting issues. By far most of the electrical issues we chase down on this site end up being ground related.

 

I do not know if the 2nd gens turn signals work like the 1st gen or not. But on the 1st gen the flasher when the in the off part of the cycle shorts the bulb side to ground, with some (not all) LEDs this makes for a direct short from running light power to ground because the running and turn signal parts share LED internal wiring.

 

First test to do is to see if the turn signals are connected internally to any of the other lights. Use an ohm meter to check from each color of wire to every other color of wire (except ground)to see if any of them are internally connected.

Second test is to connect a temporary jumper from the battery ground to light ground and ten from battery positive to each of the circuits to be sure that your light is not defective.

 

We can work from here to track the issue down.

[BratmanXj]

The videos are both set tp private and cannot be viewed.

Do you stil have the OEM turns, brake and tail light connected? If yes try unplugging the harness end that goes bak towards the fender keeping the breakout harness connected to the new auxillary lights. That may tell us something.

 

There is no obvious reason I can see why this set up should not work as planned.

 

Also try taking the ground for new auxillary lights directly to a good frame ground or the battery negitive terminal.

 

Let us know how you make out.

Videos should be fixed now...

Yes, the factory tails are all hooked up, I'll try tonight with them unplugged.

I'll also jumper the ground lead directly to the battery.

 

Thanks for the tips.

[M61A1MECH]

Flying fool may have some thing with the flasher grounding internally on the off cycle.

In the video of your bike both turns are flashing, is that part of the mystery, I forget if the Venture has a hazard switch on it or not.

 

Can you post a picture of the turnsignal connections brown and green you made?

[Patch]

First off I never connect anything to a frame ground unless its design leaves me no choice, I have a big terminal block mounted near the battery for all the ground wires. Steel has a much higher resistance per foot than copper wire does and connections to steel like to corrode over time, leaving you to chase lighting issues. By far most of the electrical issues we chase down on this site end up being ground related.

 

.

 

This needs more preaching more often. When I started it was common to run to frame or chassis it was considered proper, now tho we read that it is no longer so in great part due to the complexities of circuitry and in many case low voltages.

 

Very good point to make Jeff

[BratmanXj]

First off I never connect anything to a frame ground unless its design leaves me no choice, I have a big terminal block mounted near the battery for all the ground wires. Steel has a much higher resistance per foot than copper wire does and connections to steel like to corrode over time, leaving you to chase lighting issues. By far most of the electrical issues we chase down on this site end up being ground related.

 

I do not know if the 2nd gens turn signals work like the 1st gen or not. But on the 1st gen the flasher when the in the off part of the cycle shorts the bulb side to ground, with some (not all) LEDs this makes for a direct short from running light power to ground because the running and turn signal parts share LED internal wiring.

 

First test to do is to see if the turn signals are connected internally to any of the other lights. Use an ohm meter to check from each color of wire to every other color of wire (except ground)to see if any of them are internally connected.

Second test is to connect a temporary jumper from the battery ground to light ground and ten from battery positive to each of the circuits to be sure that your light is not defective.

 

We can work from here to track the issue down.

 

Flying fool may have some thing with the flasher grounding internally on the off cycle.

In the video of your bike both turns are flashing, is that part of the mystery, I forget if the Venture has a hazard switch on it or not.

 

Can you post a picture of the turnsignal connections brown and green you made?

 

The LED strip lights have 4 wires per side. Before I mounted them I did connect them directly to battery and check Run-Brake-Turn features and they were all functioning.

 

Edit: I also ran a direct jumper from the harness ground to the battery for testing purposes with no change.

 

The Yellow Wire from each respective LED strip is wired to the Brown or Green to activate the turn signals feature. Per your original post, I went out and disconnected the back end of the bike from the breakout harness and the LED strips functioned properly with Run, Brake, & Hazard working correctly, the turn signal would have a fast flash because the obvious load issue with the rear incandescent bulb no longer connected. The leads me to believe that FlyinFool's comment about the factory bulbs shorting might be true.

 

I'm fine with basic electrical modifications, but without sitting down at the bike with jumpers I'm a little lost on how to remedy this one.

[Flyinfool]

If it is the internal shorting issue, it is easily fixed with one diode for each side.

 

You need to do the checks with the ohm meter to verify if it is the internal shorting issue.

[BratmanXj]

If it is the internal shorting issue, it is easily fixed with one diode for each side.

 

You need to do the checks with the ohm meter to verify if it is the internal shorting issue.

 

The Left & Right turn signals have continuity between them as well as with the ground wire. And as soon as it sat down to check them it made sense to put a diode in-line with each LED to control back-feed.

[Flyinfool]

I hope that is the solution as it is an easy one.

[BratmanXj]

If it is the internal shorting issue, it is easily fixed with one diode for each side.

 

You need to do the checks with the ohm meter to verify if it is the internal shorting issue.

 

Ok, I THOUGHT I knew what I was doing....famous last words.

 

When I disconnect the OEM tail/turn harness at the connector by the battery and check for continuity the factory green & brown turn signal wires have continuity along with the black ground wire.

 

With the OEM tail/turn disconnected the new LED strips fully function with run/brake & turns.

 

So where do I need to add the diodes? I thought I needed to add them to the breakout harness with the green & brown turn leads going to the LEDS but that didn't work.

[Flyinfool]

I don't know that you did the correct tests with the ohm meter. You need to check for continuity from yellow to red and from yellow to white. There should be none. There should be continuity from white red and yellow to black. You need to check this with the both ends of the harness unplugged so that you are checking just the LED strip and the test is not being influenced any other circuits in the bike.

 

The more we work on this it does not sound like this is the issue. It may be an issue with other things on the bike. But one test at a time or we will all get cornfused.

 

With your LED strips, Do you know if the red turns off while the yellow is lit or does the yellow just overpower the red, or are they playing games with light mixing to make the yellow?

I have some more ideas but I have to let some more smoke out of my ears yet before I have you check it.

 

I sure wish you were closer, I enjoy noodleing thru issues like this.

[BratmanXj]

I don't know that you did the correct tests with the ohm meter. You need to check for continuity from yellow to red and from yellow to white. There should be none. There should be continuity from white red and yellow to black. You need to check this with the both ends of the harness unplugged so that you are checking just the LED strip and the test is not being influenced any other circuits in the bike.

 

The more we work on this it does not sound like this is the issue. It may be an issue with other things on the bike. But one test at a time or we will all get cornfused.

 

With your LED strips, Do you know if the red turns off while the yellow is lit or does the yellow just overpower the red, or are they playing games with light mixing to make the yellow?

I have some more ideas but I have to let some more smoke out of my ears yet before I have you check it.

 

I sure wish you were closer, I enjoy noodleing thru issues like this.

 

 

To clarify... You want to check the continuity on the LED strips or on the BIKE OEM lights?

 

The yellow turn indicators turn off the red lights on the LED strip.

 

Closer... Heck I'm just over the IL/IN boarder and could be up to you in a few hours.

[Flyinfool]

I was referring to testing the LED strips with the breakout harness unplugged at both ends.

 

If you want to run up here to mess with it I am game. I just got laid off so I can not travel but I do have a lot of time on my hands. Didn't you make it up here once for lunch at the Final Approach for one of my March get togethers??

 

Since the red turns off when the yellow comes on that means that there is some circuitry in the LED strips to do this, it is possible that this is not playing well with the wiring of the bike. If this is the case then I may just need a few properly placed isolation diodes to keep all the lights from talking to each other.

 

Of course once we solve it we will have to post how for the next person that follows this link.

 

HA! some of these test I can probably do a lot faster than I can type out how to do.

[BratmanXj]

I have not made it out for any of this forums meet-ups. I know we chatted about how far you are from the crazy pink house.

 

I misinterpreted what you wanted tested! I'll poke around a bit on the bike tonight and get back on here to discuss. There is a "converter" box on the LEDs to go from 4 wire input (Run-Brake-Turn-Ground) to 3 wire on the strip.

[Flyinfool]

I have not made it out for any of this forums meet-ups. I know we chatted about how far you are from the crazy pink house.

 

I misinterpreted what you wanted tested! I'll poke around a bit on the bike tonight and get back on here to discuss. There is a "converter" box on the LEDs to go from 4 wire input (Run-Brake-Turn-Ground) to 3 wire on the strip.

 

AHHHhhhhhh........... the plot thickens. I do not think you need or want the converter box, that might be your whole issue. I think if you try it without the converter you will be happy.

 

The LED strips ARE a 5 wire system You have You have Brake, Run, Left turn, Right turn and ground. This matches the lights of a 2nd gen perfectly with no converter needed. The converters are needed for trailer lights that are 4 wire systems where the same bulb element is used for both brake and turn. Your LED strips have a separate yellow element for the turns just like a 5 wire system.

[BratmanXj]

AHHHhhhhhh........... the plot thickens. I do not think you need or want the converter box, that might be your whole issue. I think if you try it without the converter you will be happy.

 

The LED strips ARE a 5 wire system You have You have Brake, Run, Left turn, Right turn and ground. This matches the lights of a 2nd gen perfectly with no converter needed. The converters are needed for trailer lights that are 4 wire systems where the same bulb element is used for both brake and turn. Your LED strips have a separate yellow element for the turns just like a 5 wire system.

 

Hold your horses there guy....The LEDs are 3 wire and there is a small box that came with them to make it a 4-wire system. I'll post more photos when I get home tonight, stupid forum not getting my point across!

[Flyinfool]

Now my curiosity is overflowing. Do you have a link to these lights? There is now smoke pouring out my ears. This is getting to be more fun by the minute.

[BratmanXj]

I was about to order a set of Custom Dynamics Plasma Rods for $180 and my Kawi riding buddies swear by these. I know of at least 2 guys who have wired them on Nomad or Vaquero with out much hassle.

 

http://m-factorystore.com/for-vulcan-1700-vaquero-voyager-integrated-30cm-led-turn-signal-tail-brake-light/

[Flyinfool]

Since you did test them by connecting direct to the battery and they worked fine, Then I am sure we can get these to work on your bike. It just takes a long time to sort thru using a forum.

[BratmanXj]

"Converter" box I was speaking of....it's the control box that runs the input to the LEDs. Its NOT a trailer plug converter!

 

So I set the DVOM to 200k Ohms and tested the leads going TO the LEDs (or should I say going into the control box) and have resistance ranging from 7.5k to 178k. Do we need the whole breakdown of impedance?

 

So, please teach me O' wise one. How do I fix this mess?

[Flyinfool]

OK, another easy test. go into the tail light and unplug just the Custom Dynamics tail light leaving the stock turn signals connected and see what that does????

[BratmanXj]

OK, another easy test. go into the tail light and unplug just the Custom Dynamics tail light leaving the stock turn signals connected and see what that does????

 

1st thing I tried before I even came to the forum...

With the LED strips installed, the OEM turn signals connected and the C.D. LED run/brake board disconnected - still had the whacky yellow turn signal flash on the LED strips as shown in the original video.