bleeding brakes

[bikerjohn]

Got a question for you, have a new friend with a venture and he was bleeding his brakes with a back feed method,I have never heard of it.

What is your take on the method?

i watched a video and it seems a lot more time consuming and more tedious.

Is there a benefit in doing that method.

 

You input would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

 

trying to get him to join the group

[saddlebum]

Back feeding works great but in order to do it properly you need to 1st completely drain the system. 2nd you need to remove the caliper from its mounting and position it so the bleeder screw is at the lowest point and the line is at the highest point. Then you slowly pressure feed the brake fluid in through the bleeder screw until fluid reaches the master and at least half fills it. I say half because the last thing you want is brake fluid to overflow the reservoir and run all over the bike also why you back fill it slow because it gets up there faster than you think. To back bleed the front brake on the left side you do the same accept you open the extra bleeder screw found up by the steering head and put a clear line on it so when the fluid comes out it can be directed into a catch container. Once clear fluid comes out of that screw close it. Finally you will have to bleed the line from rear master to that bleeder screw. Open the screw and depress the brake pedal slowly until it bottoms out and then close the screw before you let the pedal back up. Continue until clear fluid comes out the screw and you should be good to go. And your right it is a pain in the butt but effective.

 

My prefer method for brakes is to used a sealed 1 quart container that I can put under vacuum. (I use an old plastic alcohol injection bottle that I modified for the purpose. Old truckers would know the bottle I'm talking about because before they put air dryers on air brake systems in trucks these were used to inject alcohol into the air system to keep any moisture in the system from freezing in winter.)

 

Anyway I run a line from the container to the bleeder screw and another from the container to a vacuum pump. I build max vacuum in the container about 28 inches vacuum. with the reservoir full I crack open the bleeder until clear fluid runs through the clear line. Be careful you do not suck the reservoir dry You may have to open and close the bleeder several times while topping up the reservoir. Also it is preferable to have the container higher than the master since air goes up. I hang mine on a string. This method works very quickly and leaves no mess. For the front brakes finish off by bleeding the master at the banjo fitting to make sure no air is trapped there.

Edited April 1, 2020 by saddlebum

[vzuden]

To back bleed the front brake on the left side you do the same accept you open the extra bleeder screw found up by the steering head and put a clear line on it so when the fluid comes out it can be directed into a catch container.

I don't think the 2nd Gens have that second bleeder screw. I change my fluid in the front and rear brakes plus the clutch every two years. I have never had any problem with bleeding them the more conventional way I think you are familiar with, John.

[saddlebum]

I don't think the 2nd Gens have that second bleeder screw. I change my fluid in the front and rear brakes plus the clutch every two years. I have never had any problem with bleeding them the more conventional way I think you are familiar with, John.

True enough I was thinking of the 1st Gen. I admit I am not familiar with the second Gen, as far as how they plumb the hydraulic system. That said basic bleeding principles, regardless of which method is used, still apply. I have no issue with conventional bleeding methods, I was simply describing the the basic procedure, behind the other two methods. Obviously one would have to adapt according to the particular system they are bleeding but the basic technique for each method still applies. Edited April 2, 2020 by saddlebum

[bikerjohn]

Thanks for the responses, I will share with my friend on Friday

[saddlebum]

Just out sorting through my spare parts and came across an overflow bottle for the cooling system. By the look of it would work as good as the bottle I described in my previous post to rig up a vacuum bleeding set up.

[Allenm]

I'm curious. I've got a 2003 venture royale. Can I not just bleed the brakes like I do my car. It makes no sense to me to back bleed unless your getting a vapor lock. Gravity bleed works best for me. I'm new to this bike so I don't know about gen 1 or gen 2. Am I missing something. Also I've been told the left brake and rear brake are linked. While bleeding should I open both bleeder attached to hose bottle blocks.

[Squidley]

43 minutes ago, Allenm said:

I'm curious. I've got a 2003 venture royale. Can I not just bleed the brakes like I do my car. It makes no sense to me to back bleed unless your getting a vapor lock. Gravity bleed works best for me. I'm new to this bike so I don't know about gen 1 or gen 2. Am I missing something. Also I've been told the left brake and rear brake are linked. While bleeding should I open both bleeder attached to hose bottle blocks.

Allen,

It shows in your profile that you have a 2003 Venture Royale, this is a bit misleading as the year and the model don't coincide. if it's a 2003 it's a Royal Star Venture or a 2nd Gen, if it's prior to 1993 it's a Venture Royale or a 1st Gen. 2 completely different beasts and the braking systems are different. Does your bike look like an 80's Goldwing or a Harley?

[Allenm]

It's defiantly like a Harley. 

[RDawson]

21 minutes ago, Allenm said:

It's defiantly like a Harley. 

Then you have a Royal Star Venture. Look in the 2nd gen tech library for brake information. 
 

1983-85: Gen 1 MK1

86-93: Gen 1 MKll

99-2013 Gen 2

2018-      Gen 3. 
The gen 2s don’t have linked brakes. 

[Squidley]

8 hours ago, Allenm said:

It's defiantly like a Harley. 

It's a 2nd gen or RSV as we like to call it here. Is it the midnight color or the raspberry and tan?

[Marcarl]

You can gravity bleed them if you like, sometimes it takes longer or doesn't complete the job at all. Hence the suggestion to do a reverse bleed, a vacuum bleed, or other methods.

Basically all models bleed with the same idiosyncrasies. (had to use spellcheck for that one!!!)

[BlueSky]

I bled my 2007 RSV just like I bleed my autos which is pumping the pedal or lever and holding while opening the bleed valve.  I did use my hand operated mityvac some too to help out.  

[etcswjoe]

Did anyone mention speed bleeders?  I use these, makes it real easy. Check to make sure you get the right size for your particullar bike.   https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0482-Mini-Bleeder/dp/B0077QSGFG/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Speed+Bleeder+motion+pro&qid=1603981288&sr=8-5

[cowpuc]

17 hours ago, Allenm said:

I'm curious. I've got a 2003 venture royale. Can I not just bleed the brakes like I do my car. It makes no sense to me to back bleed unless your getting a vapor lock. Gravity bleed works best for me. I'm new to this bike so I don't know about gen 1 or gen 2. Am I missing something. Also I've been told the left brake and rear brake are linked. While bleeding should I open both bleeder attached to hose bottle blocks.

Yep @Allenm,, same same,, its all hydraulic lines and system just like a car and what ever works in auto brake bleeding, same rules apply.. The #1 issue with bleeding bike or car brakes, IMHO, is getting the air out.. Even the tinyiest bubble of air in the system is not your friend.  That is why, no matter what I am working on when it comes to bleeding hydraulics I always identify the high spot in the system as well as high spots in the low areas where air bubbles can hide and IF possiple, bleed off those spots too, below is a one of my quick vids I produced for a friend that shows the extreme of what I am talking about, thought you might enjoy. My advice is to never over look these hidden spots, whether a bango up on a master or a hidden spot like I show in the vid.

@bikerjohn,, I know this will sound wayyy out there probably but I have tried, and did not like what I found when attempting the back bleed method. Consider the garbage that collects at the end of a hydraulic system and then consider where the bleeder is located in the system that you are back bleeding from.  Think of where all that garbage is going when you push the fluid back into the master.  I had an employee working for me in Maintenance who did this on a large punch press and forced a small piece of metal into a hydraulic control spool that ended up costing the company 2 days of line shut down as the maintenance guys searched for the stuck valve, all due to back flushing.  For me, I still use the old method of pump, hold, bleed, close valve,, pump, hold, bleed. I also attach a clear line to the bleeder, zip tie it securely if I have to so it will not pop off, have enough hose so I can drape it over the seat (if doing clutch slave,, just an example - as long as you get the bend in the hose higher than the bleeder your golden) and leave the bleeder finger tight. Now when I bleed I can watch the fluid in the clear hose for air and other gook. When swapping fluid this works great cause you just keep clean fluid in the master and when the clean fluid appears in the hose your done.  Put a jar at the end of the clear hose, on the other side of the bike to catch fluid incase the clear line cannot hold all the bleed off. Remind your friend to carefully bleed off bango up on the master to complete bleed.  Cover area under master well cause brake fluid is nasty stuff BUT, a small bleed on the bango will yeild the best results..  Yeah,, dont back bleed,,, even one small piece of dirt pushed back up in the system can cause major issues IMHO.. 

Consider the source here though LOL

Puc

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by cowpuc
forgot video!! Must be getting REAL old!! lol

[BlueSky]

I usually use a pint plastic jar with two holes cut into the top, one for the tube from the caliper and the other for a vent.  The fluid that I bled out covers the end of the plastic tube preventing air from getting sucked back into the line.  I've used this method to gravity bleed my brakes more than once.  You can pump the MC if you need to and not worry about air getting back into the lines.  When my son left home I lost my pedal pumper for my autos and had to come up with a way to bleed the brakes solo.  

Edited October 30, 2020 by BlueSky

[cowpuc]

1 hour ago, BlueSky said:

I usually use a pint plastic jar with two holes cut into the top, one for the tube from the caliper and the other for a vent.  The fluid that i bled out covers the end of the plastic tube preventing air from getting sucked back into the line.  I've used this method to gravity bleed my brakes more than once.  You can pump the MC if you need to and now worry about air getting back into the lines.  When my son left home I lost my pedal pumper for my autos and had to come up with a way to bleed the brakes solo.  

EXACTLY!!! Me n Sky,,, we are lop eared brake bleedin brother varmints LOL.. @BlueSky,, what you are describing is EXACTLY what I was trying to explain only I use a section of clear hose pointing upward away from the bleeder to capture the bled fluid so no air can get back into the system. I TOTALLY get what you mean about losing the pedal pumpers brother, TOTALLY!!! LOVE IT BROTHER!!! YOU DA MAN!

[saddlebum]

I use all forms of bleeding but I prefer vacuum bleeding as it is fastest and does a great job of flushing the system purging the system of impurity's. Back bleeding works well and probably the most effective in removing air to get rid of air pockets but is more work since to do it properly you need to remove the calipers and tip them so the the line is at the high point and the bleeder screw is at the low point. There is the risk of crap in an older system being pushed up into the master so I would recommend this only if installing all new parts. There nothing wrong with Regular bleeding it just slower and can take longer. As a rule regardless of which method I use I usually finish off with a bit of regular bleeding at the end just to make sure I have rid the calipers of any air lingering around bleeder screws.

Edited October 30, 2020 by saddlebum

[N3FOL]

On 10/29/2020 at 10:23 AM, etcswjoe said:

Did anyone mention speed bleeders?  I use these, makes it real easy. Check to make sure you get the right size for your particullar bike.   https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0482-Mini-Bleeder/dp/B0077QSGFG/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Speed+Bleeder+motion+pro&qid=1603981288&sr=8-5

I am almost always the only person in the garage and I work on my bikes as a DIY with ample tools.  Because of this, Speedbleeders are my life saver when it comes to bleeding brakes.  It truly becomes a one man job in replacing brake fluid.  My RSV has them and I already placed an order for my SVTC.