Need some insight

[Squidley]

I have a question for all you 1st genners. It's been a while since I have owned a 1st gen, and I got to love the riding position of my G2 very much. I have been riding my '86 back and forth to work solo, which I never really did when I owned my other 1st gens as I had a company vehicle. Pretty much all my riding was 2 up and usually I never went over 75 mph.

 

It seems as if now I feel like the bike is getting squirrely, similar to what Marcarl and Wizard 756 were experiencing at high speed (about 80 mph). I have the Avon Venoms on the bike and it seems like the bike is VERY sensitive to input from the handlebars. Almost to the point of me not wanting to ride this bike. I am assuming that a lot of this might be me, but it just doesn't feel like my other 1st gens. Have any of you other riders experienced the bike feeling like this riding solo?

 

I have been playing with the air in the suspension, my rear tire is at max pressure and the front is 5 lbs below max as I tune the suspension for the ride. I have looked at all the rear suspension parts and used a prybar to check for slop, but everything seems tight as far as I can test and feel.

 

I'd appreciate any and all of your thoughts....

[Gearhead]

Squid,

 

Mine's an 87 and I've had it two years. I can't get rid of the mid-speed front-end wobble, the kind where the bars and wheel shake back and forth but only if I take my hands off the bars. I've tried pretty much everything suggested here. BUT - I just keep my hands on the bars.

 

It did have a hi-speed weave, but not too bad. In two years I've put all Progressive suspension and checked and greased every bearing and bushing in the chassis. I have an E3 on the back and a Pirelli MT66 front, both around 40 psi. Front suspension has about 33% sag, rear has around 20% solo, almost 50% 2-up. After all that, the hi-speed weave is reduced to a level where I hardly ever experience it, and it goes away quickly when I do have it. I think that's normal for full dressers. The bike is quite stable up to 100 or so which is as fast as I've gone on it. I regularly cruise the Interstate at 80 or 85.

 

Jeremy

[GigaWhiskey]

You might be looking at solid engine mounts. Is it a white knuckle ride? 80-85 was about all i could handle in a straight line (a woop di do and I was puckering) and could not hit a sweeper at 70+. Got that darn warble. The mounts cured about 95% of it.

 

I has some extreme sensitivity in the handlebars. It was like you couldn't hold em tight enough and light enough at the same time.

Edited May 16, 2008 by GigaWhiskey
added more.

[Mariner Fan]

Man Brad,

 

Any kind of wobble must be hair raising for you after the accident.

 

Hope you figure it out.

[86er]

Brad, when I got my 86, it had venoms on it and I was thrilled because I use them on my Intruder and love 'em. But I had braking/turn wobbles and high speed sweeper wobbles. My second set, I went to an E3 rear and 404 front (Dunflop still doesn't make an E3 front for us) and did the steering head bearings and front wheel bearings. Things greatly improved so I put Venoms back on and got the wandering at about 75mph. I have gone back to the Dunlops and the bike has settled down. I hate to say it but unless everything is perfect, the Venom is not the right tire for a first gen.

 

I think that I still have some issues in the rear end, because pulling a trailer at speeds above 85 gets really interesting! It will start to whip the trailer. Tail wagging the dog kind of thing!

 

Good luck, Bud! Glad to hear you're ridin' to work!

 

[Marcarl]

We're still working on putting on another set of tires, should be any day now. We'll let you know. What we're experincing is not a front end wobble, it's more like a fish squirm from the bike itself.

[cliffno350]

my 88 was kinda squirrelly till I put new steering head bearings and set them to a 2 pound pull now is stable as any bike, I have cheng shins front and rear the hi max ones forget the numbers, except the rear is narrower than stock a 130/90 instead of 140/90.

I still have rubber engine mounts and two up or 1 up is solid, and no wobble at any speed hands or no hands.

 

oh don't know if it matters probably not but I got steering bearings from motion industries not Yamaha.

[calperin]

Brad,

 

I never got that issue on my VR 84. Never felt that I cannot take my hands from the handlebar. However after change the front forks & springs with the progressive ones, everything improve a lot. Also, I have the fork bracket installed since I bought it, denden says that it improves greatly the stability on the bike.

 

Regards,

 

 

Carlos

[BJB]

Brad,

I have an 89 which I recently acquired. It needed a front tire, and was really squirrely at about 65 mph. After reading about tires here, especially the Venoms, I put on a new...are you ready for this....Metzler 880! (rear already was a ME 880) At the same time I redid the front bearings. I have no wobble at speeds up to 96 mph, much faster than I ever need to go. There is still a slight wobble around 40 mph but hardly noticeable.

 

I used to have a 1996 Royal Star and it had the head shake problems if you took your hands off at about 60 mph. I also put ME 880's on it and it cured the problem. The only warning I have is that I always check tire pressures, ( running 37.5 front and 39.5 rear) and before every ride I try to do a tread check....looking for the gobs of rubber these tires are supposed to be flinging around. Actually I think those tire problems seem to be for the 2nd gen tire sizes. I have my class system set at low front and back for single riding...and I am a svelt 205 lbs. Hope this helps.

[bongobobny]

Local dealer claims he has only sold a couple of sets of Avons and then had to buy them back as the owners did not like them. Tell you what, Squid, I am putting on new Elite II's on the scoot, so maybe you can take mine for a short spin next weekend and see if you notice a diference...

[Guest JGorom]

Don't want to speak to something I know nothing about...as I have never owned a 1st Gen Yamaha...but I do know that sometimes people tense up at higher speeds (and I am not saying you are doing this Squidly) and when they do this they tend to grip the handlebars tighter which can cause a wabble in many bikes. Just a friendly thought.

[GigaWhiskey]

I had the warble even after progressives, superbrace and a new set of Pirelli Routes. The only two places I have not done anything to are the steering head bearings and anything in the rear end. Figured the steering head bearing might clear up the remaining 5%.

[BradT]

Brad good luck finding the problem, sure is interesting that a few are having a similar problem.

 

I thought Wizard was changinf his back tire. Interesting he commented that when his wife is with him, it is much better.

 

Brad

[eagleeye]

Well,

My comment is that my 86 loved being at 80mph, and I always rode solo. Avons, but I did notice a very nice change when I balanced the front wheel and ran 40psi in it.

The only time it would get squirlley is at very low speeds and that is when I balaced and raised the air pressure.

In my opinion, the speed that the 86 loved to run at was 75 to 85. I think I could stay there all day. At 55, it started whinning.

I also ran no air in the front and maybe 15 in the rear.

hope this helps,

Steve

[Venturous Randy]

As I have stated about Avons on my 83, I love em and I hate em. Up to about 70/75, they are great, above that and I get a rear end wobble. I now have 10,000 miles on them and as long as I keep my speed down, they are fine. I honestly feel there is something unique to a 1st gen and Avons. I would love to have someone swap wheels and tires with someone with something besides Avons and make a run and see how it feels. I just know that I have run Elites and ME880's and in the other 80,000 miles before the Avons, the bike never felt the way it does now with the Avons.

RandyA

Edited May 18, 2008 by Venturous Randy

[93 venture]

My 93 was wild at speeds 80 mph and above, i adjust my steering bearings,installed fork brace,`helped alittle but still had a bad wiggle above 80,it was ok with 2 up but by myself it was bad,check my moter mounts with a pry bar and bet i could move the engine 3/4 of a inch up and down,installed solid moter mounts and problem is gone.at hi speeds on mine before i change the mounts it felt like the rear end was on ice. it would chase cracks in the road,but all better now.

[Squidley]

We're still working on putting on another set of tires, should be any day now. We'll let you know. What we're experincing is not a front end wobble, it's more like a fish squirm from the bike itself.

 

My 93 was wild at speeds 80 mph and above, i adjust my steering bearings,installed fork brace,`helped alittle but still had a bad wiggle above 80,it was ok with 2 up but by myself it was bad,check my moter mounts with a pry bar and bet i could move the engine 3/4 of a inch up and down,installed solid moter mounts and problem is gone.at hi speeds on mine before i change the mounts it felt like the rear end was on ice. it would chase cracks in the road,but all better now.

 

 

OK I'm not loosing my mind, this is exactly what I'm talking about. And you bet that I'm a bit apprehensive about the feeling as it is exactly what my '99 felt like before the accident, almost like the tire was flat. I appreciate the comments and it does seem strange that there are a few of us running Avons that have this issue. Pehaps for certain 1st gens the Avon ins't the best choice

Keep the responces coming, thank you all for your input

[Squeeze]

Brad, check for the recommended Prressures from Avon and lower the Pressure in the Tires first, before getting into serious Work.

 

I don't know how much Pressure is recommend by Avon for the Bike and the Tires, but riding Solo at posted max Pressure in the rear and almost max on the front doesn't do anything good. Seems all the newer Tires need the Pressure at the lower End of the Range, just as much as needed to not overheat them.

 

I ride the Metz ME 880, due to our stupid Rules, but i had Michelin Commander(illegal) prior to them. I liked them more.

[Grandpagak]

Brad, when I got my 86, it had venoms on it and I was thrilled because I use them on my Intruder and love 'em. But I had braking/turn wobbles and high speed sweeper wobbles. My second set, I went to an E3 rear and 404 front (Dunflop still doesn't make an E3 front for us) and did the steering head bearings and front wheel bearings. Things greatly improved so I put Venoms back on and got the wandering at about 75mph. I have gone back to the Dunlops and the bike has settled down. I hate to say it but unless everything is perfect, the Venom is not the right tire for a first gen.

 

I think that I still have some issues in the rear end, because pulling a trailer at speeds above 85 gets really interesting! It will start to whip the trailer. Tail wagging the dog kind of thing!

 

Good luck, Bud! Glad to hear you're ridin' to work!

 

 

 

i would try dunlops again.. my bike has elite 2 on it but it is time to replace them.. but due to lack of funds , I am going with the dunlop 404. acording to specs they should be as good as the elite 2 at half the price.. when i checked the specs they were almost identicle.. and i have loved the elites..

[Snaggletooth]

I had major problems when I got my bike with the old duns on it. I cleaned, lubed and tightened the head bearing, did the Progressives, and added the Venons during the first few months I owned it. I can run 75-85 MPH and have no problems with control now. Dead steady with a light one handed ride at any speed. I have tried hands off at Interstate speeds and she's rock solid even through the grooved pacement. Sweepers and twisties are effortless.

 

The only time I had problems with wobble was this spring when I rode her to the station to top off the tires, about 15 lbs low, and she wanted to wander. Once the pressure was back up she was fine again.

 

Now I got to mention, this bike only has about 46k miles on her.

[Thom]

Brad , try pulling your front chin off and drop the rear tire pressure 3 lbs. it worked for me , i run kendas and running faster than 75 is no fun ! i found cupping in the front tire changing to elite 2s this week end .

Thom

[SilvrT]

I start getting the wobble around 100mph ... found if I put my knees out into the wind, it stops the wobble. Maybe it's caused by the air turbulence around the bike..???

 

Never had this issue with my '85

[Wizard765]

Here we go....

Marcarl and I changed our tires this spring to Avon Venoms. Carl had venoms on his last year and experienced no problems. Mine had Dunlop on the front and Michelin on the rear with no problems. Both of us are now experiencing this wobble. It feels like we are behind a large truck and being pushed around. Definately not in the front. In my case it is also hard to keep a straight line at slower speeds (which could be loose steering bearings at this point). I've reduced air pressure on the rear tire and it moved the wobble to a higher speed. When I carry a passenger the wobble is gone.

 

The dealer that put the tires on wants to put Dunlop 404s on because he "knows" they will work on the bike but I have a problem with that because of the tread design. The Venoms make tar snakes and grooved pavement pretty much disappear. The Dunlops are the old style and those problems will be back.

 

Carl talked to an Avon Rep and they are willing to pay to have another set of Avons installed to see if it is just a bad tire (I have a problem believing that because of the different manufacturing dates on Carl's and my tires). Avon is then willing to pay the labour to have another manufacturers tire installed IF the new set dosen't fix the problem.

 

Our dealer now has the name and number of the Avon rep and is going to go that route to see what happens.

 

Any suggestions on what to try next would be greatly appreciated because I liked the dissappearing tar snakes but hate the wobble more. I don't believe new Avons is going to fix the problem so want to know what to try next.

 

Another note.

Carl had his engine out over the winter to do 2nd gear. I had the swing arm assembly out to change bushings. I also added a fork brace. Carl's has progressives and mine dosen't. Otherwise everything else is the same.

 

Brad: We will keep you posted as to the outcome but at this time I believe the Avons are the problem.

[Condor]

'Geeze it sounds like everybody's wobbling...... Here's my story on the Venoms. I've had 3 venoms on the front of the '83. The first two were replaced under warantee, and the 3rd, built at a different time, is doing fine. The '83 has Progressive fork springs. With all three tires I've not had so much as a wobble. What I have felt is road condition because of the aggressiveness of the Avon. I can hit a pebble and know it, and those cement groves in highways get the front end hopping' all over the place. Get on smooth black top and everything settles right down. I've just learned to live with the 'tackyness' of the tire, and it doesn't bother me any longer. I just let the front end do it's thing. I don't take my hands off the bars when ever I get into a wiggle situation, but when on a smooth surface I have no qualms about not holding onto the bars up into triple digits.

[friesman]

I am running an 85VR with 40,00kms. The bike is new to me this spring, but it had a nasty squirrely feeling at all speeds when I bought it and it had brickstones on front and back with what should have been another years wear on the rear. After reading around in here I replaced the back with a dunlop. Ive played with air pressures in the tires anf find funning 38 front and 40 back seems to make it handle ok. I will replace the front brickstone at the end of the year as I find it seems a bit slippery when cornering, but I will just keep and eye on it for now. Last weekend went out to the beaches an hours ride east of town and tried up to 160kmh (100mph) without any issues but prolly averaged 120-140kmh.

I keep the class system at medium on both front and back most of the time but have played with settings and it doesnt seem to make any difference to me. (but I am a svelte 285, lol)

 

Brian:cool10: