bike chase

[RDawson]

Right after I wrote the above post I read a news story of a chase at the other end of the state from me. The driver was an escaped convict from near me, stole at least two vehicles, and had drugs, cash, and stolen guns in the car. The initial call was for a suspicious car, he ran. If they hadn't chased him what else was he going to do in upcoming days? Luckily we won't know since he's locked up. This was one of the good ones where no one was hurt.

[RDawson]

Well, if killing the guy was justifiable, then what other minor offenses are worthy of killing the perpetrator? Sounds like Saudi Arabia.

I get what you're saying Sky, that's why I have mixed feelings. I'll admit I'm biased because of my job and the fact I have Leo's in my family. I've seen the direct result of people doing stupid things and I guess it gives me a hardened outlook. To me when he chose to endanger everyone else it was no longer a minor offense and he faced the consequences. I have long thought that if I'm the one doing something stupid or make a mistake driving I hope I'm the only one hurt by it. I've just seen to many innocent people hurt by careless or dangerous driving.

On a current note my wife is going through a tough time dealing with injuries from a wreck from over two years ago. She has permanent injury and pain to deal with. The other driver simply made a mistake and crossed in front of her. We hold no ill thoughts or grudges to her but will face medical issues and bills the rest of her life because of it. It's part of life and we go on, if that driver had been drunk, running, or driving crazy I wouldn't have the same outlook.

[bpate4home]

I get what you're saying Sky, that's why I have mixed feelings. I'll admit I'm biased because of my job and the fact I have Leo's in my family. I've seen the direct result of people doing stupid things and I guess it gives me a hardened outlook. To me when he chose to endanger everyone else it was no longer a minor offense and he faced the consequences. I have long thought that if I'm the one doing something stupid or make a mistake driving I hope I'm the only one hurt by it. I've just seen to many innocent people hurt by careless or dangerous driving.

On a current note my wife is going through a tough time dealing with injuries from a wreck from over two years ago. She has permanent injury and pain to deal with. The other driver simply made a mistake and crossed in front of her. We hold no ill thoughts or grudges to her but will face medical issues and bills the rest of her life because of it. It's part of life and we go on, if that driver had been drunk, running, or driving crazy I wouldn't have the same outlook.

 

This is pretty on point with my view. Hence why I tend to side with the officer on this. I definitely think bumping the bike was questionable. Someone commented that from the sound of the bike's engine he short shifted or missed a shift causing a quick slow down, I cannot say that I heard anything like that or see it in the video. My Son's GF was just hit basically head on just this past Friday by someone under the influence of what is believed to be prescription pain meds. Broken left femur (in 2 spots), broken lower right leg, broken left wrist, broken ribs, lung damage they are still trying to nail down and already multiple surgeries.

 

The guy on this bike chose to run putting countless other lives at risk. There are very few that I would say deserve to die, I do not believe this is the case here. The rider did not deserve to die but he chose his path as a larger portion of runners on bikes end up on the ground. I don't know the circumstances around why he was being chased but he ran, running multiple red lights and so on. Again, the rider chose his path and ultimately it comes down to that.

[RDawson]

This is pretty on point with my view. Hence why I tend to side with the officer on this. I definitely think bumping the bike was questionable. Someone commented that from the sound of the bike's engine he short shifted or missed a shift causing a quick slow down, I cannot say that I heard anything like that or see it in the video. My Son's GF was just hit basically head on just this past Friday by someone under the influence of what is believed to be prescription pain meds. Broken left femur (in 2 spots), broken lower right leg, broken left wrist, broken ribs, lung damage they are still trying to nail down and already multiple surgeries.

 

The guy on this bike chose to run putting countless other lives at risk. There are very few that I would say deserve to die, I do not believe this is the case here. The rider did not deserve to die but he chose his path as a larger portion of runners on bikes end up on the ground. I don't know the circumstances around why he was being chased but he ran, running multiple red lights and so on. Again, the rider chose his path and ultimately it comes down to that.

All my best to her, hope she heals well.

[saddlebum]

Ok so In my first comment I may have been a tad harsh though for the most part I still stand by it. Yes the officer could have dropped the chase but the bike was already speeding to start with or the officer would not have pursued as well we only see what occurred during the pursuit, there is no video of what was taking place before the pursuit. Was the rider already running lights and crossing recklessly into oncoming lanes endangering other lives? Why was the bike speeding? Well the officer would have no way of knowing and the rider could have been leaving the scene of a more serous crime. If it was simply just speeding and because the chase went on for such a long time plus there were many opportunities for the biker to pull over as in some cases the chase almost came to a complete stop but he refused and continued to renew his attempt to get away. More reason for the LEO to be thinking this is no longer just about speeding or why would the rider be so adamant in trying to get away? There have been many comments here about what the LEO should or should not have down but if one payed attention to the rider he not only ran traffic lights but he also crossed into oncoming lanes setting the scene for the possibility of innocent people getting hurt. As well if The LEO was that determined to run him down there were ample opportunities for him to nudge the bike when they were almost stopped. As the chase continued the biker was taking more and more chance and so eventually the LEO just decided to but a sop to this madness and may not of even expected as harsh an end result as what did occur. He also dispite his many opportunities were he could have nudged the bike he did not do it until the bike was close to the shoulder of the road, minimizing the odds of the bike careening into oncoming traffic.

[Patch]

Well, if killing the guy was justifiable, then what other minor offenses are worthy of killing the perpetrator? Sounds like Saudi Arabia.

 

 

If the video is not viewed a .25 speed then you miss what happened.

 

The patrol car did not cause the death of the rider!

 

Regarding running out of gas,,, I don't think so, the bike was running fat and at WOT seemed to be running well. But it was running likely super hot, miss shifts, ignition in the pipes.... I can see why one may connect those dots.

 

For much of this thread I've been wondering who is LEO/LEO's I get it now...lol

 

So what about this video, was the Leo out of line or was he being played?

 

[uncledj]

I don't get why the LEO climbed aboard for the ride.

I don't get why the driver would argue a command given with a pistol pointed at him.

When passions are high, folks on either side of the law are prone to poor decisions.

 

To answer your question, I'd say that, once again, both sides were at fault.

 

If the driver would have obeyed, he'd still be alive. (Assuming he was killed)

If the LEO would have let him drive off and pursue, the driver may still be alive and the LEO wouldn't have sustained whatever harm came to him. (Although you could make the case that others could have been harmed as the result of a pursuit)

 

I'd certainly side with the cop, but if you Monday Morning Quarterback it, ....he could have played it better.

 

[Patch]

Right. That was a 9 minute video with no clear conclusion. Not so in the 6 minute video as if watch at .25 the what I mentioned is all visible.

 

Here' the second half:

[bpate4home]

If the video is not viewed a .25 speed then you miss what happened.

 

The patrol car did not cause the death of the rider!

 

Regarding running out of gas,,, I don't think so, the bike was running fat and at WOT seemed to be running well. But it was running likely super hot, miss shifts, ignition in the pipes.... I can see why one may connect those dots.

 

For much of this thread I've been wondering who is LEO/LEO's I get it now...lol

 

So what about this video, was the Leo out of line or was he being played?

 

Who's playing who? Did the officer really smell pot? I know a some people who keep cigars on them though to cover the smell of pot. I personally wouldn't know. I also think stopping a vehicle because of tint is a little questionable too. The Driver made the mistake of putting the car in Drive though. As soon as that weapon is pulled adrenalin on both sides takes over. He had his hands up while the car is in drive and he never obeyed the officer's commands after that.

[Patch]

Who's playing who? Did the officer really smell pot? I know a some people who keep cigars on them though to cover the smell of pot. I personally wouldn't know. I also think stopping a vehicle because of tint is a little questionable too. The Driver made the mistake of putting the car in Drive though. As soon as that weapon is pulled adrenalin on both sides takes over. He had his hands up while the car is in drive and he never obeyed the officer's commands after that.

 

In the second video you'll find the answers.

[Patch]

For this one I needed room around me at first, then I thought maybe a bite protector, then I tried watch it laying on my side which, I found worked best;)

 

[WildBill1]

This video viewed at 1/4 speed shows pretty much what happened.

Keep an eye at the top right for speed; then watch the left hand as the bike meets up with...

 

 

This video just galvanizes that statement or quote, "Ride like Hell and You will soon get there". Obey the law and live another Day.

[saddlebum]

"He had been wanted for speeding. Marijuana also was found on his body after the wreck"

 

Sorry, so if this police man chased this guy like this for speeding only, he needs to be prosecuted for manslaughter and hung at the court square. I'll be the first to stand up for our LEO, but this is a case of an officer that feels above the law. The officer is the one who chased this guy (minor offense of speeding) causing unsafe conditions in city streets. There's always a day to find him and deal the punishment for his speeding. Again, if he was fleeing a homicide scene, I'd have a different take, but he knowingly was simply chasing a speeder.

Not sure how you could say he was knowingly simply chasing a speeder. Normally if an individual speeds they pull over once the lights and/or siren come on but this guy made a run for it so now the LEO has to ask himself why. He could have taken the bike out several times yet he did not giving the guy more than ample opportunity to pull over. Instead he continued to run red lights and cross into oncoming lanes to get away. Again WHY? Sorry harsh as it may seem By them time the LEO did what he did it was more than past time to put an end to this chase before the biker involved an innocent victim.

[SpencerPJ]

Not sure how you could say he was knowingly simply chasing a speeder. Normally if an individual speeds they pull over once the lights and/or siren come on but this guy made a run for it so now the LEO has to ask himself why. He could have taken the bike out several times yet he did not giving the guy more than ample opportunity to pull over. Instead he continued to run red lights and cross into oncoming lanes to get away. Again WHY? Sorry harsh as it may seem By them time the LEO did what he did it was more than past time to put an end to this chase before the biker involved an innocent victim.

 

So I guess our opinions are just that, our opinions. Running from the Police in a major metro area, where I am, not terribly un-common. I remember many years ago when I was young and dumb, me and a buddy out riding stupid late night. Leo lights came on, he went left, I went right, and I wasn't getting a ticket. Made it back to my buddys.. so did he. If the Leo's jeopardized the safety by pursuit in major metro area, there would be many more innocent civilians harmed. That's what plates are for, look up the address and wait for them to come home. Again, this is based on NO further knowledge at the time other than you initially saw a speeding motorcyclist. Just my opinion, we all have them.

[saddlebum]

So I guess our opinions are just that, our opinions. Running from the Police in a major metro area, where I am, not terribly un-common. I remember many years ago when I was young and dumb, me and a buddy out riding stupid late night. Leo lights came on, he went left, I went right, and I wasn't getting a ticket. Made it back to my buddys.. so did he. If the Leo's jeopardized the safety by pursuit in major metro area, there would be many more innocent civilians harmed. That's what plates are for, look up the address and wait for them to come home. Again, this is based on NO further knowledge at the time other than you initially saw a speeding motorcyclist. Just my opinion, we all have them.

I remember those days well too but in those days the majority of time speeding was just speeding. As well A-there was a lower density of traffic and B- the odds of it being something more than just speeding were pretty slim but these days crime has taken a deadly rise in activity as more and more people are killed by one form of criminal activity or another, as less and less value is placed upon human lives. People today are shooting in the streets without any regard what so ever as to who including innocent children fall victim to today's escalated violence. I remember when bar fights mostly just involved fists. Today its knives and guns. I believe its harder today for a LEO in my opinion to make a judgement call than in the past, as He is criticized no matter what he does. This LEO is now being dumped on for what he did but if he let him go and it turned out the guy just killed somebody, was a deadly offender who just escaped from holding or was carrying drugs for resale on the street or even caused a catastrophic accident due to his reckless driving the LEO would still be criticized. People would be saying you could have had this guy but look what happened because he allowed him to get away.

[BlueSky]

It takes two dangerous drivers to have a chase. When the LEO does not know anything other than the guy was speeding, I don't think it's worth the risk to others to give chase and wrecking the biker with almost assured serious injury or death to the biker is wrong. If someone runs from the police on foot, is it ok if he shoots and kills the guy? After all, he may be running because he committed a serious crime?

 

Confession time. During my misspent youth while driving a car, I ran and hid several times to avoid a ticket, so I suppose I could have been killed by an LEO who caught me. But, they never got close enough. I would have stopped if they did. And I never ran in heavy traffic or in a manner that was dangerous to anyone but myself.

[cowpuc]

INDEED,, times have changed that is for sure... Gotta be tough being an LEO these days.. Still thinking the loss of life potential should have been thought thru more closely.. If it was all about absolutely protecting society, or if the biker would have done something warranting get run off the road,, the officer should have done that wayyyy sooner at a slower rate,, perhaps at an intersection where there was plenty of room for a higher chance of non-death.. BUT,,, tough call cause I wasnt there..

I got a really close friend who headed the local LEO.. He and I were out goofing off one day and he was telling me that local policy was no chasing crotch rockets,, no high speed chases thru residential/conjested areas, just to dangerous for all involved... Of course,, this was only for misdemeanor stuff,, speeding and all that... Same token though,, if they did get caught,, due to Michigans "Reckless Driving Laws" and that anything over 20 mph over can be ticketed as Reckless Driving,,, if you happen to catch one it's bye bye DL and,, if they happen to flee and do get caught,,, instant 5 years... Tougher outcomes seemed to do the trick cause,, after asking Paul about how much of problem not chasing has resulting in,, he said the issue actually very rarely came up at the post...

When I was young I got chased a lot... Back then,, when a local LEO was able to catch me on my Mini-Trail,,, they used to take me home to my dad who was also an LEO... Usually the home brew of LEO punishment started before Dad's fellow brother of badge had a chance to leave the house... Actually,, I remember thinking at the time that I would rather spend a few days in lock-up and leave Dad out of it... Perhaps,, just maybe,,, thats the problem of the day... Maybe Dad's need to,,,,,,,, never mind,,, if I said that I would probably have the local child abuse enforcement knocking on my door

[Patch]

. That's what plates are for, look up the address and wait for them to come home. .

This is an assumption Spence, leo does not know by the plates.

 

Look, when I was boy my teachings were that of those that lived the other side.

Behind our app build there was usually almost always, a 71 Ferry brown in color very much like what the detectives used;

there were 3 plates stacked in a frame, think about it.

 

I've mentioned as a boy I was placed, well every now and then we drove to the island to bring our "laundry" one very hot day the Torino started over heating during a roadblock on plan A. So we pulled off at a strip mall driving around back to let it cool then to refill the rad, I walked around the front to have a looksee; I clearly saw they were single file looking for one particular thing, it was obvious we had more than one leak that day so, we opted for plan B and made it to the laundry mat joined by some very concerned folks. So, you never know what one might find in a pullover also, I don't like the thought of being pulled over for no reason, or leo goin thru my things just to snoop either; but, I live an honest life so I can deal with it.. And what if someone had just stole my vehicle.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Patch

[bpate4home]

. . .

When I was young I got chased a lot... Back then,, when a local LEO was able to catch me on my Mini-Trail,,, they used to take me home to my dad who was also an LEO... Usually the home brew of LEO punishment started before Dad's fellow brother of badge had a chance to leave the house... Actually,, I remember thinking at the time that I would rather spend a few days in lock-up and leave Dad out of it... Perhaps,, just maybe,,, thats the problem of the day... Maybe Dad's need to,,,,,,,, never mind,,, if I said that I would probably have the local child abuse enforcement knocking on my door

 

You're right on both accounts. My did lit me up plenty and I was never afraid to put my hand on my kids backside if they needed it. It was also pretty rare as my kids had 'that fear' of getting spanked that I did not. I also wacked my son on the backside when he was 5 or so because he ran in front of a car. A neighbor was a social worker and came running out of her house threatening me. I told her she needed a good spanking after she almost got hit by a car too, also told her she better bring a lot of people because no one was going to take my kids from me with out a major fight on their hands.

[venturesome]

It takes two dangerous drivers to have a chase. When the LEO does not know anything other than the guy was speeding, I don't think it's worth the risk to others to give chase and wrecking the biker with almost assured serious injury or death to the biker is wrong. If someone runs from the police on foot, is it ok if he shoots and kills the guy? After all, he may be running because he committed a serious crime?

 

Confession time. During my misspent youth while driving a car, I ran and hid several times to avoid a ticket, so I suppose I could have been killed by an LEO who caught me. But, they never got close enough. I would have stopped if they did. And I never ran in heavy traffic or in a manner that was dangerous to anyone but myself.

 

These comparisons confuse me. A better comparison might be: If someone runs from the LEO, and the LEO trips the guy while chasing him, and the guy hits his head on a rock and dies, should the LEO be charged with "killing" him? In this case, should the LEO have yelled "have a nice day!", and had another donut?

[Flyinfool]

Here in Milwaukee they tried the no chase game. That was one of the worst things the city could have ever done. It very quickly became automatic that if you get lit up stand on the gas, and or run a red and the chase will end, now you are home free. Crashes and casualties actually went up because the bad guys knew they would not be chased so they could do anything they wanted. Recently the law has changed back to allowing high speed chases and things are very slowly starting to get better. now after the runners crash it is often said that they thought they could not be chased.

[BlueSky]

These comparisons confuse me. A better comparison might be: If someone runs from the LEO, and the LEO trips the guy while chasing him, and the guy hits his head on a rock and dies, should the LEO be charged with "killing" him? In this case, should the LEO have yelled "have a nice day!", and had another donut?

 

I disagree. I think my analogy was more correct. If you shoot someone who is running from you, the odds of serious injury or death is probably about the same as the odds of serious injury or death from ramming a motorcycle rider with your car.

[Patch]

You're right on both accounts. My did lit me up plenty and I was never afraid to put my hand on my kids backside if they needed it. It was also pretty rare as my kids had 'that fear' of getting spanked that I did not. I also wacked my son on the backside when he was 5 or so because he ran in front of a car. A neighbor was a social worker and came running out of her house threatening me. I told her she needed a good spanking after she almost got hit by a car too, also told her she better bring a lot of people because no one was going to take my kids from me with out a major fight on their hands.

 

This video shows another opinion and dates to 2015... I am not aware at the moment if L.A. has changed their engagement rules? But I have seen in videos where L.A. citizens have taken matters into their own hands over this..

 

[saddlebum]

I disagree. I think my analogy was more correct. If you shoot someone who is running from you, the odds of serious injury or death is probably about the same as the odds of serious injury or death from ramming a motorcycle rider with your car.

If you can't do the time don't do the crime is the old saying. Everyone knows when they are crossing the line and breaking the law. My Dad always said if your man enough to do something wrong then be man enough to except the consequence. And yes As fool said they more they get away with it the more they try.

Don't forget each incident sends a message it can either be don't press your luck, or it can be hey go for it, ain't nobody gonna do anything about it anyway.

[RandyR]

This video shows another opinion and dates to 2015... I am not aware at the moment if L.A. has changed their engagement rules? But I have seen in videos where L.A. citizens have taken matters into their own hands over this..

 

Large cities like LA have the luxury (??) of having helicopter patrols in the air (much of the time) which gives them the ability to track that most geographies don't have.