Concerns about my V4 engine

[Jose.diaz12B]

Just bought 96xvz 1300a. Had to replace the wiring harness because there was a short in my lights fried my fuse box. Had to rebuild carburetors was not getting proper fuel to cylinders, set the fuel mix screw to 2.25 turns out. Has new oem air filter. New coolant. New intake boots.my concern is when I turn the bike on I choke it for a bit till it gets to operating temp. Then I release. Bike runs good but there's a temperature difference in my two front cylinders . My rear cylinders run hotter than the two front ones. Is this normal at start up. After 30 mins or so all four cylinders are at the same temperature. I have good compression on all four cylinders.

[BlueSky]

The front two most likely still have some plugging in the idle circuits of the carbs. Put a bottle of Gumout with PEA in the gas and run it through.

[Jose.diaz12B]

The whole bottle is for a 19 gallon I have 5 gallon tank.

[BlueSky]

The whole bottle is for a 19 gallon I have 5 gallon tank.

 

Yep, I put a whole bottle in my 3 1/2 gallon Kawasaki tank to clean up the carbs and it didn't hurt anything and it will help clean the carbs. I've put at least a half bottle in my RSV to clean them a bit after it sat for a few weeks. It works and doesn't harm the carbs.

 

Most of the members like Seafoam. I haven't tried that but I have my doubts it works as well as cleaner with PEA.

[cowpuc]

Yep, I put a whole bottle in my 3 1/2 gallon Kawasaki tank to clean up the carbs and it didn't hurt anything and it will help clean the carbs. I've put at least a half bottle in my RSV to clean them a bit after it sat for a few weeks. It works and doesn't harm the carbs.

 

Most of the members like Seafoam. I haven't tried that but I have my doubts it works as well as cleaner with PEA.

 

I am with Sky on this,, I bench tested (by actually soaking carbs and monitoring the cleaning process) numerous products and SeaFoam actually came in last... His advice is note worthy IMHO.. Berryman's Chem Dip came in first place but it is not an additive..

[Jose.diaz12B]

Just about went through the tank with PEA . condition is still the same pops when I accelerate to fast. I need to double check my carb sync.i also have gaps in exhaust/muffler conections.is that sucking in air too

[snyper316]

Just about went through the tank with PEA . condition is still the same pops when I accelerate to fast. I need to double check my carb sync.i also have gaps in exhaust/muffler conections.is that sucking in air too

 

Well my experience with popping when its in the exhaust is on deccel. If it still pops on deccel with all the gaskets replaced in exhaust then its possibly your air cut off valves. When I tear the carbs apart now I will order the rebuild kits for them and the air cut of valves. It is also possible your diaphragms on the slides are bad also. I would start off cheap and work your way up to the more expensive stuff. I learned that one the hard way! I was having a crazy issue with my bike and it turned out to be a $5.00 spark plug cap. It would get warm and the resistor would rattle. It would cool off and run perfect. Get it hot and it ran kinda like pooh and would not start until sitting for an hour. The popping on acceleration most the time was due to a fouled or bad plug. Now if its popping back at the carbs that sounds like a rich run issue. Also At what point are you shifting in each gear? I know from learning the V4 how to drive/shift it that sometimes it would do that say like 1st to 2nd I was shifting at around 1500 rpms! OOPS starting shifting and getting on it in the correct positions and did not have the issue no more except when she was cold.

Edited October 26, 2019 by snyper316

[BlueSky]

You didn't mention the popping or the exhaust leaks in your original post.

[Jose.diaz12B]

thanks for everyones advice it help alot im new to the motorcycle fixing industry.i been fixing motorcycles for 2 years now . ive located the problem.my v4 fires right up no problem.my concern is should all four cylinders be combusting the air/fuel mixture.at idle. or does it combust only in the two rear cylinders when at idle and not the front two. my front two cylinders are not making any heat in the exhaust pipe like the two rear ones. after 20 mins of idleling while park. the two rear exhaust pipes where it mounts to the exhaust flange studs are hot. but the front ones are not hot they are still cold. and then thats were the poping begins after idling for a while. my two front exhaust pipes are leaking gas where it connects to the muffler. only the front two do this.i think the gas is combusting where its leaking where the exhaust to muffler connection is.at this point my exhaust pipes are hot making the gas combust. if i go for a ride everything seems normal for a while. 30mins later i get the poping again it. it happens about every 5 mins until i turn it off. so far i had to replace worn intake boots, air filter, fuel filter, rebuilt carburetor with new gaskets, new float needle, new needle seat, new fuel mix screw. i have those screws at 1 and 3/4 turn out. i bought the bike used it had been park in a garage. had bad gas in it had to clean the carbs too.when i had the 4 carbs taken apart i noticed that the front two carbs had o rings in between the main jet and the main jet holder. but only in the front two carbs, the rear two carbs did not have these orings in it. when i ordered the rebuilt kit for 4 carbs the kit did not come with replacement orings. i still installed the original orings where i found them. this bike had so many probles it had been riding ruff the fuel mix screws were all turn out different turns none where the same. i check my spark and they do fire i used a spark tester. and i do have great compression. could some one explain how the v4 should be running at iddle. do all four cylinders combust fuel mixture at iddle. and how to adjusted the carbs to work properly.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Jose.diaz12B

[Jose.diaz12B]

thanks for everyones advice it help alot im new to the motorcycle fixing industry.i been fixing motorcycles for 2 years now . ive located the problem.my v4 fires right up no problem.my concern is should all four cylinders be combusting the air/fuel mixture.at idle. or does it combust only in the two rear cylinders when at idle and not the front two. my front two cylinders are not making any heat in the exhaust pipe like the two rear ones. after 20 mins of idleling while park. the two rear exhaust pipes where it mounts to the exhaust flange studs are hot. but the front ones are not hot they are still cold. and then thats were the poping begins after idling for a while. my two front exhaust pipes are leaking gas where it connects to the muffler. only the front two do this. if i go for a ride everything seems normal for a while. 30mins later i get the poping again it. it happens about every 5 mins until i turn it off. so far i had to replace worn intake boots, air filter, fuel filter, rebuilt carburetor with new gaskets, new float needle, new needle seat, new fuel mix screw. i have those screws at 1 and 3/4 turn out. i bought the bike used it had been park in a garage. had bad gas in it had to clean the carbs too.when i had the 4 carbs taken apart i noticed that the front two carbs had o rings in between the main jet and the main jet holder. but only in the front two carbs, the rear two carbs did not have these orings in it. when i ordered the rebuilt kit for 4 carbs the kit did not come with replacement orings. i still installed the original orings where i found them. this bike had so many probles it had been riding ruff the fuel mix screws were all turn out different turns none where the same. i check my spark and they do fire i used a spark tester. and i do have great compression. could some one explain how the v4 should be running at iddle. and how to adjusted there carbs to work properly.

[WIZ]

All four cylinders should heat up about the same. After about thirty seconds or so you shouldn't be able to touch the pipe coming out of the heads on any of the cylinders. I think that your pilot circuits are still plugged up. Also the settings on the pilot screws are not usually the same. I had mine adjusted with an exhaust analyzer and they were all different, the front two screws seems to need to be out further than the rear ones. Sometimes the pilot circuits are tough to get cleaned. If you are cleaning them with spray cleaner you have to remove the pilot jet and pilot screws, spray cleaner through it followed by air and repeat until you get a steady stream of spray flowing through.

 

Ron

[Marcarl]

I would get rid of the 0-rings on the main jets. Also the turns on the mixture screws is only posted to set things so that the engine will start. Once the engine runs they need to be adjusted differently for each cylinder, for each cylinder is slightly different from another and these screws help to adjust for the difference. So set the screws by the book, if you will, and then once the engine is fully warmed, adjust the screws. I use a vacuum gauge on each cylinder to get the max vacuum, others use different methods. A tach will not usually give you the fine measurement wanted to get things just right, but if that's all you got, it should get you somewhat close enough to be happy. And go around each cylinder until hey are all right,,, once is not good enough.

[BlueSky]

You will probably have to remove the carbs to clean them again. The idle circuits are most likely plugged on the front two cylinders. In the mean time, I would put an ample amount of cleaner in the gas such as the board favorite, seafoam, or my personal favorite, Gumout for high mileage engines with PEA.

[Patch]

I wasn't aware of this thread, I'm a touch busy this morning but I have some time after lunch and can if you like put together a troubleshooting guide for you.

 

A this point I would not continue to idle the bike! This fuel is also in a liquid state from what you describe (non compressible)

which means there is no heat to ignite it!

 

The carbs will need to be pulled, then we start the problem solving.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Patch

[cowpuc]

All great advice so far IMHO.. Idling issues can often be associated with plug fouling/ignition issues.. Weak spark at idle can also be rectified with with new plug caps and/or removal of small amount of plug wire where the wire connects to plug cap as that is where resistance increases due to corrostion. Remember: good compression/carburation/ignition all required for good combustion. Anything, including plugged air filter/exhaust can interrupt the outcome..

 

[BlueSky]

Exactly what year and model bike are we talking about here?

[Jose.diaz12B]

I wasn't aware of this thread, I'm a touch busy this morning but I have some time after lunch and can if you like put together a troubleshooting guide for you.

 

A this point I would not continue to idle the bile! This fuel is also in a liquid state from what you describe (non compressible)

which means there is no heat to ignite it!

 

The carbs will need to be pulled, then we start the problem solving.

Ok the guide will help thank you sir.

[Jose.diaz12B]

The good thing is I'm getting real good a disassembling my carburetors. This will be my 3rd time.

[Patch]

thanks for everyones advice it help alot im new to the motorcycle fixing industry.i been fixing motorcycles for 2 years now . ive located the problem.my v4 fires right up no problem.my concern is should all four cylinders be combusting the air/fuel mixture.at idle. or does it combust only in the two rear cylinders when at idle and not the front two. my front two cylinders are not making any heat in the exhaust pipe like the two rear ones. after 20 mins of idleling while park. the two rear exhaust pipes where it mounts to the exhaust flange studs are hot. but the front ones are not hot they are still cold. and then thats were the poping begins after idling for a while. my two front exhaust pipes are leaking gas where it connects to the muffler. only the front two do this. if i go for a ride everything seems normal for a while. 30mins later i get the poping again it. it happens about every 5 mins until i turn it off. so far i had to replace worn intake boots, air filter, fuel filter, rebuilt carburetor with new gaskets, new float needle, new needle seat, new fuel mix screw. i have those screws at 1 and 3/4 turn out. i bought the bike used it had been park in a garage. had bad gas in it had to clean the carbs too.when i had the 4 carbs taken apart i noticed that the front two carbs had o rings in between the main jet and the main jet holder. but only in the front two carbs, the rear two carbs did not have these orings in it. when i ordered the rebuilt kit for 4 carbs the kit did not come with replacement orings. i still installed the original orings where i found them. this bike had so many probles it had been riding ruff the fuel mix screws were all turn out different turns none where the same. i check my spark and they do fire i used a spark tester. and i do have great compression. could some one explain how the v4 should be running at iddle. and how to adjusted there carbs to work properly.

 

 

 

 

http://www.werder.ee/Manual/XVZ1300.pdf

 

 

Page 6-5 item 22 & 21 No o-ring showing but usually there is a flat washer there. I have not worked on that model, they may have changed it but I don’t see why. Check the page 6-7 item 10 again no O-ring!

The main jet is a metering jet for gas. In your case you are getting to much flow so I see 2 main possibilities: The main is not metering or the gate # 18 & 20 are not seating? If the floats are not operating smoothly that would also cause the needle to not close thus flooding the carbs!

 

The carburetors are the problem! Now understand that even if you have compression, new plugs, new wires, 12+ volts at the coils,,,,,,,, If the cylinders flood the plugs will not fire, period.

 

You mention “great compression” well what are the numbers? The cylinders need be dry before you check or the numbers are of no use at this point, if they are wet with gas.

 

My advice is remove the carbs, reinstall the mains with correct washers that come in the kit; check the floats for proper settings and smooth operation. Page 6-8 & 6-10

 

It seems obvious that someone tampered with these carbs and guessed their way thru so it is time to get them back to proper order.

This is not a syncing problem, and it is not an idle jet problem, nor a mixture setting problem, it is a flooding problem.

I advise you to blow the cylinders out till dry, remove all plugs and with carbs off check compression not each cylinder at 5 revolutions then at maximum compression; post the results.

Next bench sync the carbs if you do not know how we can explain that.

Set your mix screws to 1 & ¼ turn out, then we’ll walk you thru.

[Jose.diaz12B]

All great advice so far IMHO.. Idling issues can often be associated with plug fouling/ignition issues.. Weak spark at idle can also be rectified with with new plug caps and/or removal of small amount of plug wire where the wire connects to plug cap as that is where resistance increases due to corrostion. Remember: good compression/carburation/ignition all required for good combustion. Anything, including plugged air filter/exhaust can interrupt the outcome..

 

thanks for your knowledge and experience advise.

[Jose.diaz12B]

thanks for everyones advice it help alot im new to the motorcycle fixing industry.i been fixing motorcycles for 2 years now . ive located the problem.my v4 fires right up no problem.my concern is should all four cylinders be combusting the air/fuel mixture.at idle. or does it combust only in the two rear cylinders when at idle and not the front two. my front two cylinders are not making any heat in the exhaust pipe like the two rear ones. after 20 mins of idleling while park. the two rear exhaust pipes where it mounts to the exhaust flange studs are hot. but the front ones are not hot they are still cold. and then thats were the poping begins after idling for a while. my two front exhaust pipes are leaking gas where it connects to the muffler. only the front two do this. if i go for a ride everything seems normal for a while. 30mins later i get the poping again it. it happens about every 5 mins until i turn it off. so far i had to replace worn intake boots, air filter, fuel filter, rebuilt carburetor with new gaskets, new float needle, new needle seat, new fuel mix screw. i have those screws at 1 and 3/4 turn out. i bought the bike used it had been park in a garage. had bad gas in it had to clean the carbs too.when i had the 4 carbs taken apart i noticed that the front two carbs had o rings in between the main jet and the main jet holder. but only in the front two carbs, the rear two carbs did not have these orings in it. when i ordered the rebuilt kit for 4 carbs the kit did not come with replacement orings. i still installed the original orings where i found them. this bike had so many probles it had been riding ruff the fuel mix screws were all turn out different turns none where the same. i check my spark and they do fire i used a spark tester. and i do have great compression. could some one explain how the v4 should be running at iddle. and how to adjusted there carbs to work properly.

 

 

 

 

http://www.werder.ee/Manual/XVZ1300.pdf

 

 

Page 6-5 item 22 & 21 No o-ring showing but usually there is a flat washer there. I have not worked on that model, they may have changed it but I don’t see why. Check the page 6-7 item 10 again no O-ring!

The main jet is a metering jet for gas. In your case you are getting to much flow so I see 2 main possibilities: The main is not metering or the gate # 18 & 20 are not seating? If the floats are not operating smoothly that would also cause the needle to not close thus flooding the carbs!

 

The carburetors are the problem! Now understand that even if you have compression, new plugs, new wires, 12+ volts at the coils,,,,,,,, If the cylinders flood the plugs will not fire, period.

 

You mention “great compression” well what are the numbers? The cylinders need be dry before you check or the numbers are of no use at this point, if they are wet with gas.

 

My advice is remove the carbs, reinstall the mains with correct washers that come in the kit; check the floats for proper settings and smooth operation. Page 6-8 & 6-10

 

It seems obvious that someone tampered with these carbs and guessed their way thru so it is time to get them back to proper order.

This is not a syncing problem, and it is not an idle jet problem, nor a mixture setting problem, it is a flooding problem.

I advise you to blow the cylinders out till dry, remove all plugs and with carbs off check compression not each cylinder at 5 revolutions then at maximum compression; post the results.

Next bench sync the carbs if you do not know how we can explain that.

Set your mix screws to 1 & ¼ turn out, then we’ll walk you thru.

i just check my spark and they are not firing. in the front to cylinders. the two rear plugs are sparking. i check the plugs back in november when i was having electrical wiring problems. i had to replace the harness with a used one. after the install i check for spark and it was good. bike was running ruff. took the carbs out to clean. after the install i noticed the gas leak been chasing this problem for some time. i have to bench test my primary coil and secondary coil, spark caps .and swap coils to check if the front two cylinders fire.thats what im doing today. taking the bike apart for the 5th time getting fast though

[Jose.diaz12B]

Exactly what year and model bike are we talking about here?

1996 yamaha royal star boulevard 1300

[Patch]

I went on your comment that the plugs were firing. The best way to check the system is with a spark gap tester, about $5.00 at the auto parts store. This should be done before you strip the system down again.

Did you correct the jet installations?

Edited April 5, 2020 by Patch

[Patch]

I went thru the 96 manual carb section, 6-5 & 6-7 looks the same to me as far as jet layout.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?20228-97-to-01-Royal-Star-Service-Manual

 

I checked also for a Dingy diagram I didn't find any so for the wiring you'll need to use the manual.

 

Remember checking the ignition in place is a better option with the gap tester. This way you can move the harness and see when and what interrupts the sequence.

[Jose.diaz12B]

a

thanks for your knowledge and experience advise.

did a test on my coils . #1 cap 11.24k ohms, primary 4.0 ohms, secondary OL. #2 cap 11.92k ohms, primary 4.2 ohms, secondary OL. #3 cap 12.06k ohms, primary 4.2 ohms, secondary OL. #4 cap 9.72k ohms, primary 4.0 ohms, secondary OL.

3 out of 4 caps are out of specification, primary coils are within range, secondary coils all measured open line.out of specifications. i have to replace my coils but the two rear ones were firing the plugs. kinda confused good video