Sputtering...losing power....ramblings

[Atlanta Bill]

I'm having some issues with a 96 RSTC I bought a few weeks ago.

I thought you folks might weigh in.

 

The bike will run fine, but it will occasionally start stuttering, like it is running out of gas.

All the instrumentation flickers like the bike is going to cut out. It will die if I don't keep revving it, then finally die anyway.

 

The first time it happened I kept trying to give it gas to keep it running. But it died and I ended up having to push it out of an intersection. (I'm 63 and have arthritis. Pushing this bike across 3 lanes can be...taxing...on a whole bunch of levels.)

After a few minutes of sputtering when I tried starting it, it eventually fired up but still was flakey and I limped it home, keeping the rev's up, lest it die on me again.

 

I checked fuses and battery connections when I got home. All seemed well.

I noticed I'd pinched the on/off switch cable when putting on new grips the day before and I "assumed" that was the issue.

I freed up the cable and lo and behold, it ran fine the next day.

 

Tonight however I briefly got the same stuttering, losing power symptoms a mile from home. This time I just shut off the bike and let it sit for a minute. It fired back up fine and got me home ok.

 

Some possible contributing side issues?:

1. I'm not mechanically inclined....even if I was mechanically inclined, the (2nd...I have "issues") ex-wife owns all my tools.

2. I'm probably leaving out critical info explaining this as I don't think I'm conveying it very well.

3. A LOT of backfiring on deceleration. I'm on my second can of Seafoam.

4. Previous owner did a sloppy job installing some after market stuff ( horn/running lights/deer whistle....I disconnected some of his wiring but it didn't seem to affect things either way). But the bike ran ok with the aforementioned mods.

5. There are after market pipes. Have no clue if a rejet was done or needed. The pipes sound incredible though.

6. Actually, the first time I experienced the stuttering I was running out of gas. The low fuel light is evidently out, and flipping to reserve didn't seem to do anything. But after gassing up it ran fine until a couple of days later.

 

 

Also, a little back story. I bought this bike intending to sell it.

On the first ride I found it too top heavy, rumbly and uneven sounding (probably needs carb work), unwieldily, piggish and undesirable. It was really dirty.

I bought it because the owner took a wildly low cash offer from me, (alarming in itself).

I drove it 70 miles home (I bought it in the town I work in, not the town I live in). It got me home...in the rain...a confidence builder there.

 

It seemed heavy and weird and lugged on the ride home, I didn't understand the gearing/overdrive aspect yet, but the pipes started to sound really good....and it was torquey as hell and sort of fun.

 

Then crazily and a little inexplicably it really started growing on me. Something about the weight...and width...and sound and torque. It has just blown me away more than almost any bike I've ever had. There is an authority and understatedness (while at the same time really in your face) to it that has grabbed me.

I've had lots of bikes. Honda's...Harleys....a V-star. But there is something about this Royal Star...like how after seeing it filthy under a tarp in a garage, how when it cleaned up I noticed the fit and finish...the quality of paint and chrome....and design...were really of very high quality.

And the way it sounds...somewhere between a souped-up 70 Chevy Nova and a 1972 442 is the best way I can describe it.

It is intoxicating.

I hope I'll never need to sell this bike.

 

Sorry for rambling.

Any advice is much appreciated!

 

Bill

in Atlanta

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Atlanta Bill

[Freebird]

Well, this is probably to simple to be your issue but how old is the battery? A weak battery can cause many of the symptoms that you describe. Put it on a charger overnight and made sure it is fully charged. See how it runs then.

[leo3wheel]

You may have more than one problem, but I've had some of those symptoms with a clogged fuel filter or bad fuel pump.

Turning bike off for a while will allow fuel to pass through a clogged filter. Had to rev a lot to get home with a bad fuel pump.

[Patch]

I'd add a couple of items to check, like fuel filter and fuel pump. Also you mentioned new grips and wires being pinched so, when she's running on the pad, play with those wires to see if they have an effect, if so the an easy fix.

Backfiring we can cover later if it persists.

How long was the bike parked for?

Patch

[Patch]

And: you mentioned you cut some of the old wiring out, did you secure the ends of those clipped wire?

There are connection plugs throughout the wiring harness, in any case it would serve you well to separate each one pull only on the connection end s little shot of wd40 will help the clean with contact cleaner, I lube the plugs before putting them back together (have for many decades) with dialectic grease, doesn't take much!

Is you side stand up tight and not bouncing, it shouldn't but and easy check on that and the switch beside it.

Patch

[Atlanta Bill]

Thanks so much for the responses guys.

 

The battery was new in January, but I'll get a meter and check it.

 

The fuel filter and pump I suppose could be the issues. I've peeked at the filter but don't have the tools (yet) to get at it and check and replace it.

 

The old wiring I just disconnected from the battery. It made no difference. I'm hesitant to start removing questionable wiring because I don't want to screw something else up. I will attempt to follow the wiring harness and address the connectors.

 

The side stand didn't occur to me, but when the bike would start faltering I was on smooth roads or stopped in traffic. But I will check it.

[BlueSky]

Sometimes with older bikes, just unplugging all of the wiring connections and cleaning them with contact cleaner can get rid of problems.

 

I think I would also change the plugs and see if that helps. Wouldn't hurt to check the compresion while the plugs are out. Check the float levels in the carbs. This can be done on the bike. I did it on my 89 but not my RSV. I'm assuming they can be done the same way.

[cowpuc]

It sounds to my untrained beaner like you might just be running out of electricity and not fuel.. This happens if there is an issue with the charging system - the bike runs fine till the battery runs low.. I'd pick up a cheapy HF volt/ohm meter and do a voltage check across the battery cables with the scoot running. I would be looking for 12 volts minimum at idle and 14.5 voltsish off idle when the voltage regulator kicks in..

[Patch]

Thanks so much for the responses guys.

 

The battery was new in January, but I'll get a meter and check it.

 

The fuel filter and pump I suppose could be the issues. I've peeked at the filter but don't have the tools (yet) to get at it and check and replace it.

You could ask your wife to lone you your tools for a weekend? Maybe don't ride over with a younger Lady on the back of the bike you know incase she says yes!

The old wiring I just disconnected from the battery. It made no difference. Yes but did you tape the ends of the ones you cut!

I'm hesitant to start removing questionable wiring because I don't want to screw something else up. I will attempt to follow the wiring harness and address the connectors.

 

The side stand didn't occur to me, but when the bike would start faltering I was on smooth roads or stopped in traffic. But I will check it.

 

Sometimes with older bikes, just unplugging all of the wiring connections and cleaning them with contact cleaner can get rid of problems.

 

I think I would also change the plugs and see if that helps. Wouldn't hurt to check the compresion while the plugs are out. Right On Blue! Now we'll see what his wife says about access to the tools;)

Check the float levels in the carbs. This can be done on the bike. I did it on my 89 but not my RSV. I'm assuming they can be done the same way.

 

It sounds to my untrained beaner like you might just be running out of electricity and not fuel.. This happens if there is an issue with the charging system - the bike runs fine till the battery runs low.. I'd pick up a cheapy HF volt/ohm meter and do a voltage check across the battery cables with the scoot running. I would be looking for 12 volts minimum at idle and 14.5 voltsish off idle when the voltage regulator kicks in..

A real potential for a crazy short cutting in and out. Maybe a cheap volt gauge temperately installed, he could glance at when it starts acting up?

Well we'll see what the wife says;) Ya know its possible wife said NO MO Bikes at 63 I want you home and, OP went and bought one anyways so she/wife hid the tools? Makes sense to me..lol

 

Patch

[Atlanta Bill]

All excellent suggestions. I suspect it is an electrical connection/ground related thing too.

 

I'll pick up a cheapie volt/ohm meter on the way home today and check voltages when I get there. I'd be surprised if it was the relatively new battery, but certainly not shocked!

; )

 

And for the record the ex-wife and bikes are not related in any way. That trauma/drama was pretty long ago. I got my freedom. She got everything else. Such is life.

I am slowly replenishing my tools.

[Atlanta Bill]

It sounds to my untrained beaner like you might just be running out of electricity and not fuel.. This happens if there is an issue with the charging system - the bike runs fine till the battery runs low.. I'd pick up a cheapy HF volt/ohm meter and do a voltage check across the battery cables with the scoot running. I would be looking for 12 volts minimum at idle and 14.5 voltsish off idle when the voltage regulator kicks in..

A real potential for a crazy short cutting in and out.

Patch]

 

Acquired a meter and voltage checks good. The bike was fine on a 5 minute ride last night, then started the sputtering thing as I was (mercifully) backing it into the garage.

This weekend I'm changing the fuel filter, air filter and plugs. Maybe that will help.

[RDawson]

A friend had similar issues recently, he got a tank of bad gas. The store where he bought it doesn't sell much so they run to the bottom of their tank often. We drained it and had to change fuel filters twice to get it back to normal. It would stop up the filter with just enough getting thru to run. Once it sat for a while enough trickled thru to fill the carbs.

[Atlanta Bill]

Per bad fuel, I actually thought about that possibility this morning.

As I said in my original post, this all started right after I ran out of gas. So there is a full tank of new gas in it.

 

Thanks for weighing in. It is another possibility and the symptoms are not unlike iffy fuel.

[Patch]

I'm having some issues with a 96 RSTC I bought a few weeks ago.

I thought you folks might weigh in.

 

Lets give this another look over;

 

 

The bike will run fine, but it will occasionally start stuttering, like it is running out of gas.

This could also be a vent issue which means tank and carb vents may be restricted

 

All the instrumentation flickers like the bike is going to cut out. It will die if I don't keep revving it, then finally die anyway.

This sound to me as a short? Stator or more likely rectifier intermittent dead short? What would kill ignition and cause instruments and light to flicker just as it dies out, main fuse is a possibility?

Tonight however I briefly got the same stuttering, losing power symptoms a mile from home. This time I just shut off the bike and let it sit for a minute. It fired back up fine and got me home ok.

Yet this again sounds like a pressure issue which could be venting or fuel pump

 

6. Actually, the first time I experienced the stuttering I was running out of gas. The low fuel light is evidently out, and flipping to reserve didn't seem to do anything. But after gassing up it ran fine until a couple of days later.

haha, would somebody like to call bingo;) 1) filter, 2) pump, 3) venting

That's how I'd proceed first

 

 

I hope I'll never need to sell this bike.

 

Sorry for rambling.

Any advice is much appreciated!

 

Bill

in Atlanta

 

[Patch]

Per bad fuel, I actually thought about that possibility this morning.

As I said in my original post, this all started right after I ran out of gas. So there is a full tank of new gas in it. And possible when the level dips down you will experience the stalling again. Its just a guess from here of course

 

Thanks for weighing in. It is another possibility and the symptoms are not unlike iffy fuel.

[Atlanta Bill]

A few more weird facts.

 

1. It sputters and idles slow, mostly when I slow to a stop (It hates intersections).

2. If I turn on the high beams instrumentation illumination will come back, low beams it goes off. Weird.

3. Today it wouldn't restart after dying. It just acted like a dead battery (I checked, its fully charged) but 5 minutes later it starts fine.

4. Can't find a replacement fuel filter in Atlanta. Is there an alternative?

 

I'm frustrated. I'm not a mechanic and I can't find one in Atlanta who will work on it and the ones I do seem really incompetent.

[Patch]

A few more weird facts.

 

1. It sputters and idles slow, mostly when I slow to a stop (It hates intersections).

2. If I turn on the high beams instrumentation illumination will come back, low beams it goes off. Weird.

3. Today it wouldn't restart after dying. It just acted like a dead battery (I checked, its fully charged) but 5 minutes later it starts fine.

4. Can't find a replacement fuel filter in Atlanta. Is there an alternative?

 

I'm frustrated. I'm not a mechanic and I can't find one in Atlanta who will work on it and the ones I do seem really incompetent.

 

Sounds like post #3 by Leo is happening.

It maybe time to stop riding it before you end up needed a tow.

 

A full tank or half tank difference suggest pump filter problem, but the above is telling you there is a short and it needs to be corrected.

Start by cleaning the harness connections, don't ignore any damaged contacts should you find one.

Keep the plastics off till you get thru the bike.

Check all your switches, clean and lube them.

[cowpuc]

Not to sound redundent but reading this thru again makes me still think the probability that you have a Stator and/or Regulator issue going on. While far from a battery expert, I have found that it is not uncommon for a good battery to gain a recharge just from sitting after it has gone dead from not being recharged properly via a functional charging system. That would explain why after it dies and sits for a time, the battery recharges itself enough to restart the bike and run for a while (not so sure if this works with Lithium batterys but have experienced it numerous times with lead acid batteries in the past).

As stated earlier, if you haven't done so, I would expose the battery so you can put an ohm/volt meter across the battery leads. Now start the bike and let it idle, put the ohm meter on low DC voltage (20 volts) and test across the battery leads, you should see about 12 volts. With the leads still attached on the leads, rev the bike a little and the voltage should jump to around 14.5 volts. If this test fails, you need to gain access to the Stator leads coming from the Stator to check the windings in the Stator. All doable, check at the battery first and if that test fails we can explain further testing of the Stator/Regulator system..

Bottom line, dont give up, it can be fixed,, it's just a matter of eliminating one potential issue at a time..

 

EDIT: Ooppsss,,, my bad,,, I missed the comment that you did do all the above and found the Stator system check to be fine,, meaning you did see at least 14.5 volts on the meter when you revved the scoot = right? That being so,, I will go back to reconsidering options..

Edited August 10, 2019 by cowpuc
e

[Patch]

Not to sound redundent but reading this thru again makes me still think the probability that you have a Stator and/or Regulator issue going on. While far from a battery expert, I have found that it is not uncommon for a good battery to gain a recharge just from sitting after it has gone dead from not being recharged properly via a functional charging system. That would explain why after it dies and sits for a time, the battery recharges itself enough to restart the bike and run for a while (not so sure if this works with Lithium batterys but have experienced it numerous times with lead acid batteries in the past).

As stated earlier, if you haven't done so, I would expose the battery so you can put an ohm/volt meter across the battery leads. Now start the bike and let it idle, put the ohm meter on low DC voltage (20 volts) and test across the battery leads, you should see about 12 volts. With the leads still attached on the leads, rev the bike a little and the voltage should jump to around 14.5 volts. If this test fails, you need to gain access to the Stator leads coming from the Stator to check the windings in the Stator. All doable, check at the battery first and if that test fails we can explain further testing of the Stator/Regulator system..

Bottom line, dont give up, it can be fixed,, it's just a matter of eliminating one potential issue at a time..

 

EDIT: Ooppsss,,, my bad,,, I missed the comment that you did do all the above and found the Stator system check to be fine,, meaning you did see at least 14.5 volts on the meter when you revved the scoot = right? That being so,, I will go back to reconsidering options..

 

No Puc I have to agree with you; my thinking is that at the time he checked the short wasn't active. It needs to be vetted before dismissed;)

[Atlanta Bill]

Ok.

I replaced plugs and the fuel filter today.

I didn't use the exact replacement filter but the one I used is very similar. I had to reposition it a bit.

One of the plugs had a great deal of rust on the top side. All plugs were dark brown/black at the tips and looked slightly oily. VERY slightly.

 

It seems to run a little smoother. I took it for a 3 mile ride and didn't experience any sputtering or the bike acting like it was about to die.

There was a momentary stall about 2 miles into the ride, where for about a half second it felt like it wasn't getting gas, but that was very brief and then it seemed fine.

 

I'll take it on progressively longer rides tonight and tomorrow and see where we stand.

I know better than to get my hopes up too high.

But I did feel happy I was able to accomplish what I did. Just getting at things can be difficult.

 

Thanks for all the help Puc, Steven G and all you guys. You have been really generous with your expertise and your time in helping me out, and I really appreciate your kindness and knowledge.

 

Bill

[leo3wheel]

Recently got bad fuel at remote station, deserted with credit card access. Fortunately, got home before trike acted up.

Had to drain fuel tank and fill with new conditioned fuel, replaced fuel pump (got damaged), replaced fuel filter and then

coaxed new fuel into carbs by reving and popping clutch. Engine finally cleared itself, and trike is back to its old self.

[Atlanta Bill]

Leo, I'm not discounting that the problem could in part be bad fuel.

As you said previously, it sounds like more than one issue.

Thanks for weighing in, man!

: )

 

Tomorrow I plan to inspect and clean as many connectors as I can. I'm also going to take a close look at the R&R.

The fact that I could make the instrument cluster go off and on by turning my brights off and on makes me think there is something electrical going on as well.

And although I've checked all fuses, I haven't pulled the footrest and checked the main fuse. I'll for sure check that too.

[Atlanta Bill]

One thing for sure....I dig big bikes.

I didn't know that until I got the Royal Star.

[Mike2Fst]

Some years ago while traveling from Long Island to Florida via Asheville, NC, I had a voltage regulator go intermittent, difficult to diagnose as it would indicate charging well when tested until I was fortunate one time to see it kick in and out a few times. Fuel filter could be old and clogged as already mentioned. Next time when it sputters to a stop, open the gas cap and listen for suction, I've had the fuel tank vent clog in the past, once the negative pressure in the tank increases enough, fuel will not flow to the carbs.

[RandyR]

there is an electrical problem. If switching to low beam from high beam 'causes' the problem then I would be looking at the wiring in the headlight and switch and in between. You also indicated gauges jump around while this is happening. That's electrical. There may be other issues, but the intermittent electrical is going to be there.. somewhere.

 

I would look at the wiring diagram to see if switching high/low might go thru some other component? although just switching might cause a surge that tickles something that isn't working solidly.