Crappy, clunky, difficult shifting

[Semi-retired]

My '03 gen 2 has been shifting clunkier and clunkier since.....can't remember when.

-I changed the oil before putting it up for the winter.

-shifting was only MARGINALLY better on first outings

-clunking and resistance seem to sometimes almost randomly improve or worsen throughout a ride, but never better than a 5 on scale to 10

-clutch pull seems a little heavier than earlier days

- getting back to 2nd and 1st at intersections ALMOST requires "kicking" on the lever and rocking the bike.

 

It's TEDIOUS and at the point where it's taking the joy out of riding.

 

I don't think another (expensive using Mobil 1) oil change is gonna do much.

What are the recommended next diagnostic efforts? (69,000 kliks....no towing....virtually all solo riding by "flyweight!"....no previous clutch work)

Great thanks for all ideas!

[Rafterd]

Just guessing, but sounds like the clutch Is

dragging slightly?? No adjustments, buy maybe air in the hydraulic clutch.

try bleeding it and see what happens.

[RDawson]

I would start with checking/changing fluid in the clutch and bleeding it. Then check that the master cylinder and slave are working correctly. Does it try to creep forward on level ground with the clutch pulled?

[HermanK84VR]

I had a similar issue with my 500 Virago I had a hard time finding 2nd gear and downshifting, I decided to try Seafoam in the crankcase I poured it in in late spring never drove the bike with the seafoam in the Crankcase, I just left the bike run at a hi Idle for about a Half Hour at a time did this about 3 times, then changed the oil and filter and used Royal Purple 20w50 for Air cooled MC my Bike now shifts normally without much effort on the shifter.

 

It is worth a try, if that does not cure it then you may half a bent shift fork.

 

HermanK84VR

 

My '03 gen 2 has been shifting clunkier and clunkier since.....can't remember when.

-I changed the oil before putting it up for the winter.

-shifting was only MARGINALLY better on first outings

-clunking and resistance seem to sometimes almost randomly improve or worsen throughout a ride, but never better than a 5 on scale to 10

-clutch pull seems a little heavier than earlier days

- getting back to 2nd and 1st at intersections ALMOST requires "kicking" on the lever and rocking the bike.

 

It's TEDIOUS and at the point where it's taking the joy out of riding.

 

I don't think another (expensive using Mobil 1) oil change is gonna do much.

What are the recommended next diagnostic efforts? (69,000 kliks....no towing....virtually all solo riding by "flyweight!"....no previous clutch work)

Great thanks for all ideas!

[XV1100SE]

Have to agree about checking the clutch. Have you ever replaced the clutch plates? Is there slipping in 4th and 5th?

 

When did you change the clutch and brake fluids? I think the owners manual says it should be replaced every 2 or 3 years.

 

As for oil....what are you using? I use Rotella T6. Check your oil level - I find if mine is low (if I don't put enough in during an oil change) it will "clunk" on shifting.

[Semi-retired]

I had a similar issue with my 500 Virago I had a hard time finding 2nd gear and downshifting, I decided to try Seafoam in the crankcase I poured it in in late spring never drove the bike with the seafoam in the Crankcase, I just left the bike run at a hi Idle for about a Half Hour at a time did this about 3 times, then changed the oil and filter and used Royal Purple 20w50 for Air cooled MC my Bike now shifts normally without much effort on the shifter.

 

It is worth a try, if that does not cure it then you may half a bent shift fork.

 

HermanK84VR

Thanks very much for the comment, Herman. Appreciate the comment. (Definitely comes in high on the "not too labour intensive...not crazy expensive in terms of possible "cures").

 

There are a few different "varieties" of Seafoam, are there not? Any one in particular?

[HermanK84VR]

The Seafoam motor treatment that you normally would pour in your fuel tank can also be used in the Crankcase I believe it is 1.5 oz per quart of oil it recommends putting the seafoam in prior to an oil change and drive it for another 200 mi then change the oil. here is a link to Seafoam website

 

https://seafoamsales.com/how-to-add-sea-foam-motor-treatment-to-gas-and-diesel-crankcase-oil/

 

hermank84VR

 

Thanks very much for the comment, Herman. Appreciate the comment. (Definitely comes in high on the "not too labour intensive...not crazy expensive in terms of possible "cures").

 

There are a few different "varieties" of Seafoam, are there not? Any one in particular?

[bikenut]

I agree that seafoam can be added to the gas but I was on their site and nowhere do they say to add to the motorcycle crankcase.

Harley I see no problem because the motor has its own oil and the clutch is in different oil but on most Motorcycles has the clutch and transmission in the same oil as the engine and Seafoam May not be compatible with the wet clutch. Clutch may wear faster or slip like if you put the wrong type of oil in the motor with friction modifiers added which is a no no.

Like other people have stated above here I would Bleed the clutch and Master and slave because it does sound like the clutch is dragging and not releasing all the way.

Good luck and let us know if it works

[Semi-retired]

Have to agree about checking the clutch. Have you ever replaced the clutch plates? Is there slipping in 4th and 5th?

 

When did you change the clutch and brake fluids? I think the owners manual says it should be replaced every 2 or 3 years.

 

As for oil....what are you using? I use Rotella T6. Check your oil level - I find if mine is low (if I don't put enough in during an oil change) it will "clunk" on shifting.

 

1. Have never replaced clutch plates

 

2. Can't recall slippage....and HAVE done 175-180 KPH on a couple of midnight blasts on QEW, so I'm guessing it would have occurred then?

 

3. Have NEVER changed the clutch cylinder fluid. (Is it as tedious as brakes? Can it be done "single-handedly"? Is it a PITA resulting in NO CLUTCH if you get a little air in there somehow? (Lastly, is there a tutorial on the site anywhere?)

 

4. I THINK I put 15-40 Mobil 1......but, that was last October. (You remember what they say about "What did you have for breakfast!!) I have a new jug of T4 Rotella 15W/40....if I get consensus here. :-) Level is currently good: halfway up the window.

[Semi-retired]

I agree that seafoam can be added to the gas but I was on their site and nowhere do they say to add to the motorcycle crankcase.

Harley I see no problem because the motor has its own oil and the clutch is in different oil but on most Motorcycles has the clutch and transmission in the same oil as the engine and Seafoam May not be compatible with the wet clutch. Clutch may wear faster or slip like if you put the wrong type of oil in the motor with friction modifiers added which is a no no.

Like other people have stated above here I would Bleed the clutch and Master and slave because it does sound like the clutch is dragging and not releasing all the way.

Good luck and let us know if it works

 

Thanks, Keith. Yeah, I was thinking possible "dodginess" on the Seafoam with clutch-plate material also.

 

I'm anxious to tackle the clutch cylinder(s), though. You make it sound as though there are 2. Are there? Upper/lower or something? I can (obviously) see the one up at the bars; is there another "vessel" below somewhere?

Also, would love to see a video or at least read a step-by-step procedure for this. Does either exist on our site?

Thanks.

[Semi-retired]

try bleeding it and see what happens.

 

I'm game........is there a process outlined anywhere? (Don't wanna add MORE air than there might be in there already!!)

 

Also, any special "juice" I need to use? Or just any of the new "universal" brake fluids?

[videoarizona]

Clutch fluid flush can be a pain or easy, depending upon your procedure. But seriously, that would be the first thing I would do. Get some fresh fluid and just do it.

If you can, get a kit for doing the brake fluid. Harbor Freight. A hand held pump and some tubing. You can open the slave cylinder bleed port, connect tubing to that port, making sure the tube goes up then down...ie...has a loop...to keep fluid always at the connection, put some fluid in the master, then either push it through using the clutch handle (go slow and make sure top is on master) or suck it through using the tool. Keep the master full so you don't suck air in and really ruin your day. Cause getting the air out is a pain.

 

No different than bleeding brakes.

 

As far as changing the clutch discs. That was easier than I thought. There is lots of info on both...search the site. I found the pics and info I needed, downloaded it and went to work.

 

If I can do it...anyone can!

[bikenut]

The best way I found was to suck all the fluid out of the master and use paper towel to soak up the rest and then fill it back up with new fluid, hook up your hose down by the slave and open the bleed valve the SLOWLY pull you clutch in and slowly out and keep doing it until clean fluid comes out the hose below. But keep you master full of fluid at all times so air do not get into the system. On the last pull in on the clutch lever hold it in all the way IN and keep it there and close the bleed valve

Below is a video of where the bleed valve is

Hope this helps

[Rafterd]

I'm game........is there a process outlined anywhere? (Don't wanna add MORE air than there might be in there already!!)

 

Also, any special "juice" I need to use? Or just any of the new "universal" brake fluids?

 

 

Ok, so I take it you know nothing about this. Use exactly what it says on the reservoir. DOT 4 I believe. Level the bike

by putting a 2x4 or more under the side stand. The bleeder valve is 8mm, use a box end wrench, and is right behind the cylinder on the left side. Square rubber cap, remove it. You will need a bleeder hose, clear, that fits on the bleeder valve, run it into a container of some kind. Remove the reservoir cap, and remove the old fluid. Use your wife’s turkey baster, or paper towels work just fine. BE SURE TO COVER ANY PAINT OR PLASTIC YOU DONT WANT RUINED CAUSE BRAKE WILL RUIN IT. Refill with clean fluid.

lay the cover on the reservoir, pump the clutch lever three times and hold it. Release bleeder valve and you will see fluid run through the clear tubing along with any air bubbles, close bleeder valve, THEN release clutch lever. Repeat till fluid is clear, or no bubbles are present. Be sure the fluid level doesn’t go dry in the reservoir, or you get to start all over. Good luck

 

Bill

[djh3]

Dont know if you all have a Autozone or something like that. But out auto parts stores, some have tools on a loan program. Basically you put a deposit on tool use for the day and bring it back in good condition you get deposit refunded. Get the hand bleeder/vacuum bleeder and its a pretty simple job.

[Semi-retired]

Dont know if you all have a Autozone or something like that. But out auto parts stores, some have tools on a loan program. Basically you put a deposit on tool use for the day and bring it back in good condition you get deposit refunded. Get the hand bleeder/vacuum bleeder and its a pretty simple job.

 

We call it Canadian Tire! (or, affectionately, Crappy Tire.....as befits the heading of my post!! LOL)

 

Thanks for the tip......but in this case, I did it Bikenut's way: the good ole fashioned "Squeeze with the left hand (on the lever) while turning with the right (on the bleed screw)."

 

Worked like a charm. Took her out for a spin; 80% improvement. Still the occasional clunk..... but, hey, gotta show those Harley guys that they've got nuthin on us! LOLOL

 

Thanks for all the inspiration, guys! Looking forward to more joyful (quieter/easier) riding for the balance of the season!

 

Cheers!

[Semi-retired]

Ok, so I take it you know nothing about this.

Be sure the fluid level doesn’t go dry in the reservoir, or you get to start all over. Good luck

 

Bill

 

Did it just as you, Bikenut and others outlined; worked like a charm, thanks. And, to your initial comment.....gotta admit....in the 11 years I've owned the bike, although I've bled brakes several times.......NEVER touched the clutch fluid! Crazy, eh? Guess I'd better put a reminder in my Google calendar to do it again in 2023!! :-)

[Gary N.]

Mike, I highly recommend an upgrade to the Barnett clutch spring. Steel and friction plates are probably just fine but the stock clutch spring does leave a little to be desired. 150000+ on my bike with the Barnett conversion and still running strong.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Barnett-Coil-Spring-Conversion-Kit-Yamaha-Old-SR-2-511-90-10002-61-4564-/261700666860

Edited July 17, 2019 by Gary N.

[djh3]

We on the Victory bikes like to call it "positive engagement" I only thought the Venture was loud going in low gear. My Victory the bottom 2 gears are like that.

Yea and on the clutch fluid I changed brake and clutch fluid every 2 years after a scare in the mountians one year when rear brakes faded out.

[Rafterd]

Did it just as you, Bikenut and others outlined; worked like a charm, thanks. And, to your initial comment.....gotta admit....in the 11 years I've owned the bike, although I've bled brakes several times.......NEVER touched the clutch fluid! Crazy, eh? Guess I'd better put a reminder in my Google calendar to do it again in 2023!! :-)

 

 

FANTASTIC!!! You da man!! Ok well get ready to do it again. The only way air can get into the system is through

the master cylinder and or the slave cylinder. Need to start thinking about ordering the repair kits and getting ready to replace them. I know there is step by step instructions on here somewhere to replace the slave cylinder, not sure about the master cylinder. I bought my parts from eBay and they worked perfectly. Good luck.

[Rafterd]

I forgot to ask, did that fix your original problem? I know a lot of guys are suggesting you install the Barnett clutch.

And that’s fine, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what happened to your system. I’ve got 50k on my bike on original clutch. As long as it works, I’m not gonna fix it if it ain’t broke. When it fails, I’ll probably go with the Barnett myself.

[videoarizona]

I forgot to ask, did that fix your original problem? I know a lot of guys are suggesting you install the Barnett clutch.

And that’s fine, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what happened to your system. I’ve got 50k on my bike on original clutch. As long as it works, I’m not gonna fix it if it ain’t broke. When it fails, I’ll probably go with the Barnett myself.

 

 

I doubt the clutch will fail. @cowpuc got over 200k miles on each of his 83's, fully loaded, 2 up and hasn't had problems. Almost every problem with the clutch comes down to the fluid. Replace it regularly and you shouldn't have problems.

[Rafterd]

 

I doubt the clutch will fail. cowpuc got over 200k miles on each of his 83's, fully loaded, 2 up and hasn't had problems. Almost every problem with the clutch comes down to the fluid. Replace it regularly and you shouldn't have problems.

 

 

I had 2 gen ones that I put over 300k miles on without clutch problems, so I doubt the clutch will fail also. Not understanding “fluid” is that the fluid in the hydraulic system, or the fluid in the crankcase, or engine oil?

engine oil yes I agree. Oil with friction modifiers will make your clutch slip, so be careful using car oil in your bike. Hydraulic fluid has absolutely no affect on clutch life.

[luvmy40]

I had 2 gen ones that I put over 300k miles on without clutch problems, so I doubt the clutch will fail also. Not understanding “fluid” is that the fluid in the hydraulic system, or the fluid in the crankcase, or engine oil?

engine oil yes I agree. Oil with friction modifiers will make your clutch slip, so be careful using car oil in your bike. Hydraulic fluid has absolutely no affect on clutch life.

 

 

It does, however have nearly everything to do with engaging and disengaging the clutch plates.

[cowpuc]

 

I doubt the clutch will fail. cowpuc got over 200k miles on each of his 83's, fully loaded, 2 up and hasn't had problems. Almost every problem with the clutch comes down to the fluid. Replace it regularly and you shouldn't have problems.

 

Actually VAz, I never had a good clutch in one of my 1st Gen's before Tweeksis, who has a full Barnett clutch in her. The typical MO for my previous scoots (all MK1's) was for the clutch to slip in the top gears when hammering on it and hitting the hp above 5 grand.. I did replace springs and plates in a couple of them but never really had a good one after a very short time.. I always thought the Mom Yam wayy undersized the diameter of the plates PLUS the half plate (buffer) in the bottom of the stack always seemed like a weak link (although VERY functional in its purpose). As far as actual failure though, you are 100% correct,, I never ever did experience an actual failure with the package but was always mindful of how I hard a wicked em up in those top two gears when riding two up and loaded to the gills.. Combine that with the need to short shift the missing 2nd gear that each of them had and you gotta KNOW how much fun we had wearing out those 400 dollar, cross country rippin Kings of CTFW!!