Condor was right...Addictive.

[Tennessee]

In my other thread, "Updates to my "new" 05 Midnight Venture, I mentioned a Craigslist listing in my area, and how it kind of made me upset that I had just missed it, and bought the Midnight down in Georgia instead. (Hmmm, Midnight in Georgia, I like that!)

 

In any case, last Sunday as my wife and I were leaving church, I mentioned to her how I was still a bit upset that the 09 Yamaha Venture showed up on CL just a couple of days after I had committed to the 05 Midnight.

She surprised me by saying, "Well, why don't we just go and look at the bike? Call him this afternoon, see if it is still up for sale..." (Have I mentioned that I love this woman?!)

 

So I called, and an older man answered.

Here's the short story on the bike...

Sold in Dalton, Georgia in late 2009, (original bill of sale from 2009 was still in the trunk net pocket)

Apparently he kept it for a few years, didn't put many miles on her, and sold her to a friend of the guy who now owned it, a minister they referred to as "Brother Fred".(It's a Southern thing.)

Brother Fred soon realized that he was way too committed to his job to put on many miles, so four months ago he sold it to the fellow I called.

This fellow was a Harley rider for most of his life, along with his wife, but suffered a stroke about a year ago, and had gone through a pretty intense rehab. On the surface, he seemed normal, so he thought that maybe if I try something nice, but maybe a bit easier to handle, I could ride again? (I wouldn't have picked a Royal Venture, but that's just me. Maybe a 750 Honda Shadow or something...)

 

Anyway, he buys the bike four months ago, puts a tank full of premium in it, and about 300 miles later, realizes he is still suffering a bit from the stroke, and the reflexes he needs to ride a bike are no longer there. In addition, his wife becomes diabetic, and they realize their riding days are over. He puts it up for a bit more than he paid for it, listing it at $6500 with 10,000 miles on her.

 

The original owner paid $17,000 for the base bike in late 2009, and added $1858 in accessories, including passing lights, visors for all lights and turn signals, highway pegs for both rider and passenger, LEDs under the fairing (which I have not seen on yet, they come on with the key, but I have only seen it in daylight), the CD player, and the driver backrest, that little wing on the top of the trunk with red led strip, plus cables and headsets for helmets for the intercom. Pretty loaded up, to be honest. Strange to see a cassette player on a 2009. Heck, strange to see a carbonated bike in 2009!

 

I enter the picture, and he says Tuesday, July 2nd would be a good day to see the bike.

I live in Cleveland, TN, he lives in Hixson just North of Chattanooga, about 35 miles from my house.

We show up and he's got a 25 year old Miata in mint condition, a convertible Thunderbird in mint condition, a 94 Ford pickup with one of those full cabs, (two full seats and doors, AND an eight foot bed, in very, very mint condition, polished concrete floors in his garage, and this Venture that would not look out of place on a showroom floor.

 

I'm wondering how I am going to get him off his asking price of $6500...

We introduce, take a good look at the bike, and I finally start her up and she coughs a bit, seems a bit off, and I think to myself, the carbs are not balanced. It revs up fine, and he says once warmed up, it is fine, but I have my opening. Also, the original CD player, for some reason the original owner had it located in the left side bag, and although the cable is there, the CD player is still in the box, looking like it came out years ago. Still don't know if that runs.

 

I take a look at the bottom, clean as a whistle, no leaks. I am struggling to find any scratches, anything to help me lower this price.

Finally, I see that the oil is not new.

In my experience, low mileage bikes suffer from LACK of maintenance, not proper maintenance.

 

So I bring out my best Richard Rawlings imitation where he claims you can buy a $20,000 car for $10,000 if you have the cash visible in your hand.

I pull out $6000 and offer it right on the spot.

He complains that is less than he paid for it. I say I can't remember ever making money on a motorcycle, (not true), but he has heard that trick before. We go around a bit before settling on $6100. NADA puts this bike somewhere in the $6200 range, with accessories on her, so OK by me.

 

I agree to pick it up on Wednesday, giving me time to get the title and plate work done, and get an insurance binder. We write a bill of sale, trade the money, he gives me the title, and off we go.

 

I picked her up on Wednesday, and my wife followed me home. Since it was almost empty, I filled it up with premium and added a good dose of Seafoam, to see if the carbs would clear up a bit. Gear whine was present, and it shifted loudly for my ear, but shifted easily. Handling was excellent, I had put 6 lbs, in the front forks and 25 lbs, in the rear. My wife said when we got home that no smoke of any types came out of the exhaust, and no, I didn't come close to scrapping pipes.

 

Overall, it is now parked until I can get the oil changed with a new filter. As hot as it has been, it will get 20-50, not synthetic, with a new genuine Yamaha filter. I also will change the shaft drive fluid right away, and I will put synthetic in there.

Everything works well, neutral is easy to find, and if I can quiet the whining a bit with new oil and a dollop of Motokote, I'll be happy. Oh, and it needs new brake pads. I would imagine these are the original pads.

 

Did I steal it? Maybe...These are going for more than they are worth, (According to NADA not, but try to get this bike from any dealer for this price.), since people like them, they ride well, and they are known for putting on tons of miles. On the way home, I would realize that I would be doing 70 in a 55 quite often. A real mile eater.

 

But for now, it is parked until oil, filter and final fluids are changed, and new pads installed. Then we'll have some fun. My wife still likes the black one better, but she does love this "Metallic Seashell", as Yamaha called it. I call it Champagne and Black. I don't know if the discreet pinstriping is stock or not.

 

Oh, and he threw in two very nice helmets which never fit the new owners, (but these did!!), already wired up with the intercom headsets and mics. And one extra cable. He really is giving up riding...The ladies one looked totally unused.

 

And yes, Condor, you were right...these are addicitive. No more bikes for me for a while.

Here's a couple pics. Sorry it is parked tight into the others. My load of walnut for my woodworking business gets in the way.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Tennessee

[videoarizona]

Has the rear been lowered? Looks like it....the brace hanging down for the rear brake???

 

BTW, Nice looking bike there! You will enjoy the miles on her, for sure!

Edited July 4, 2019 by videoarizona
forgot to say nice!

[Freebird]

Good looking bike. I actually like that color. I agree that it appears to have been lowered though. If you want to raise it back up, I think I have a set of stock links.

[Tennessee]

Condor and Freebird: I wondered about that the first minute I saw it, the pipes ran so much lower than my 05'. I asked, he didn't think so and I believe really didn't know, but with that doggone pillow-top seat, it seemed just as hard to throw a leg over, but once on, it definitely to my body seemed lower.

 

If I just measure the pipes to the ground, maybe 1" lower?

 

I have not gotten into it enough yet to know, but it would also be why it seems to handle better than my Midnight, and seems to be a bit better into turns.

I have my Indian Roadmaster lowered 3/4", and cannot imagine owning another Roadmaster without lowering it. On this Yamaha and my Indian, I ride "in" them. On the Midnight, I tend to ride "on" that bike. Still just fine, but there is a difference.

I'll keep it lowered, and good to have a couple of experts chime in to confirm what was in my mind, but didn't say because I just didn't know.

 

Thanks!

[Freebird]

If you like it, you did good then. The ki is a good deal if you like it lowered. I think it was Barron's who made them. The disk caliper being on the bottom is the first giveaway. Compare it to your other bike and you'll see that it's usually on top.

[BlueSky]

My 07 seems to sit low since I have trouble getting the jack under it. I was wondering if it was lowered but the caliper is on top so I suppose it is not lowered.

Thanks Freebird for that bit of information!

[grubsie]

Condor and Freebird: I wondered about that the first minute I saw it, the pipes ran so much lower than my 05'. I asked, he didn't think so and I believe really didn't know, but with that doggone pillow-top seat, it seemed just as hard to throw a leg over, but once on, it definitely to my body seemed lower.

 

If I just measure the pipes to the ground, maybe 1" lower?

 

I have not gotten into it enough yet to know, but it would also be why it seems to handle better than my Midnight, and seems to be a bit better into turns.

I have my Indian Roadmaster lowered 3/4", and cannot imagine owning another Roadmaster without lowering it. On this Yamaha and my Indian, I ride "in" them. On the Midnight, I tend to ride "on" that bike. Still just fine, but there is a difference.

I'll keep it lowered, and good to have a couple of experts chime in to confirm what was in my mind, but didn't say because I just didn't know.

 

Thanks!

 

In the last pic of your original post, I can see that the Baron's lowering kit is installed. The brake caliper normally sits on the top side of the swingarm over the the top front part of the caliper. Your caliper is located on the underside of the swingarm over the bottom front part of the caliper via the Baron's bracket. That means it also has the Baron's dogbones on the shock.

If you want to raise the bike back to stock height, you need the stock dogbones. You can leave everything else just the way that it is, unless you want to spend needless money and time bringing everything back to stock.

[Tennessee]

Grubsie:

No, I have no desire to raise it back up. I'm a fan of lowered bikes, actually. This lowered Venture, when I brought it home, I noticed it immediately, the handling was just better than my Midnight. I thought at that time that maybe Yamaha had done some geometry homework, but now I know thanks to a company called Barrons, I have a lowered Venture.

 

It will improve the handling in my mind, for a couple reasons.

First off, shorter riders, (not really me, I'm about 5'11"), they can get a much better grip on the ground with their feet.

Second, it lowers the center of gravity and pushes it backwards a bit. This helps with rolling the bike into turns. And for sure, I noticed it immediately that this bike can roll into a steep turn a bit easier than my Midnight, although not as easy as my Indian Roadmaster.

 

The Indian handles better in turns due to the rake angle, which on the Indian Roadmaster is only 25 degrees, with a trail of 5.9"

As another example, Harley Electra Glides have a rake of 26', with a nice large trail of 6.7"

 

For those who don't know, Rake is the angle of the front forks as dictated by the head bearing/steering assembly welded to the main frame.

Trail is the first point where the front tire contacts the ground, and ends at a vertical line drawn from the bottom point of the front fork straight to the ground. Anything from 4" to 6" is considered OK, but a slightly larger one is even a bit better, within reason.

 

On the Yamaha Royal Venture and Midnight Venture, the rake angle is a strong 29.2 degrees, which is starting to get out there a bit. Trail is still good, at 6.1", but that more acute rake makes the stock bike just a bit harder to roll into a turn. (Think of those choppers we all used to love, with the 40-45 degree rakes that made the front forks extra long and the bike almost impossible to turn.)

 

The lowering kit makes it all a bit easier, moving the COG back and helping the rider use their weight to get it into a turn. Won't make it turn any sharper, but a bit easier. Now that I've ridden both, I can honestly say that maneuvering and slow speed hard turns are a bit easier on the Venture that has been lowered.

 

Seat height also plays a part. I believe the standard seat height on a stock Venture is 29.5", which is actually high by today's standards for a touring bike. My lowered one, compressing the pillow top, it goes down to about 28", much more tolerable.

 

My Indian Roadmaster, the stock seat height is 26.5", and with the lowering kit I had installed, it is now 25.75", which is very low. Obviously I can throw the bike into turns rather easily, even though it has a wet weight of 930 lbs. I also can scrape the fishtail pipes if I'm not careful. Fortunately, the Roadmaster comes with a Fox rear air shock, capable of 0-120 lbs., so one up I keep it around 60 lbs., and two up I jack it up to around 75-80 lbs. Ironically, the Venture has a wet weight of 869 lbs., about 60 lbs. lighter than the Indian, and yet the Indian is easier in the twisties.

As a third example, a 2019 HD Ultra comes in wet at 910 lbs. But it also has the rider a bit more forward on the frame, which changes a lot and in my mind, makes it harder to handle. My 2015 Ultra Limited Low was awkward to me. I only owned it for about 9 months.

 

Of course, other things are in play, like wheel base, tire size, how high the engine is mounted in the frame, etc., but above are the basics. For instance, my Triumph Rocket III was one of the hardest bikes I ever owned to throw into a turn, mainly due to the 240MM rear tire which only wanted to go straight. Hard to get it off that large flat contact patch and onto the rounded part of the tire.

 

In any case, it's all good, and I plan on changing the oil in my new lowered Venture today, as well as change the final oil. Brake pads are on the way... And I still plan on letting my Yamaha dealer balance the carbs and do a plug change, since I believe the plugs must be original and I'm pretty sure the carbs are now out of balance just a hair. Like I said in an earlier post, "Lower mileage, lower maintenance..." People think too much in terms of miles, and not enough in terms of time.

[XV1100SE]

With the handling...what size is the front tire? Stock were 150's but some have gone to 130's which improves the handling but will be affected more by things like road snakes....

[BlueSky]

With a narrower tire on the front, I would suspect it would be a little easier to drop the bike.

[Tennessee]

Tire on the front is a 150. It has Dunlop Elite 3's on it now. My Midnight has Metzlers on it.

[Freebird]

Grubsie:

No, I have no desire to raise it back up. I'm a fan of lowered bikes, actually. This lowered Venture, when I brought it home, I noticed it immediately, the handling was just better than my Midnight. I thought at that time that maybe Yamaha had done some geometry homework, but now I know thanks to a company called Barrons, I have a lowered Venture.

 

It will improve the handling in my mind, for a couple reasons.

First off, shorter riders, (not really me, I'm about 5'11"), they can get a much better grip on the ground with their feet.

Second, it lowers the center of gravity and pushes it backwards a bit. This helps with rolling the bike into turns. And for sure, I noticed it immediately that this bike can roll into a steep turn a bit easier than my Midnight, although not as easy as my Indian Roadmaster.

 

The Indian handles better in turns due to the rake angle, which on the Indian Roadmaster is only 25 degrees, with a trail of 5.9"

As another example, Harley Electra Glides have a rake of 26', with a nice large trail of 6.7"

 

For those who don't know, Rake is the angle of the front forks as dictated by the head bearing/steering assembly welded to the main frame.

Trail is the first point where the front tire contacts the ground, and ends at a vertical line drawn from the bottom point of the front fork straight to the ground. Anything from 4" to 6" is considered OK, but a slightly larger one is even a bit better, within reason.

 

On the Yamaha Royal Venture and Midnight Venture, the rake angle is a strong 29.2 degrees, which is starting to get out there a bit. Trail is still good, at 6.1", but that more acute rake makes the stock bike just a bit harder to roll into a turn. (Think of those choppers we all used to love, with the 40-45 degree rakes that made the front forks extra long and the bike almost impossible to turn.)

 

The lowering kit makes it all a bit easier, moving the COG back and helping the rider use their weight to get it into a turn. Won't make it turn any sharper, but a bit easier. Now that I've ridden both, I can honestly say that maneuvering and slow speed hard turns are a bit easier on the Venture that has been lowered.

 

Seat height also plays a part. I believe the standard seat height on a stock Venture is 29.5", which is actually high by today's standards for a touring bike. My lowered one, compressing the pillow top, it goes down to about 28", much more tolerable.

 

My Indian Roadmaster, the stock seat height is 26.5", and with the lowering kit I had installed, it is now 25.75", which is very low. Obviously I can throw the bike into turns rather easily, even though it has a wet weight of 930 lbs. I also can scrape the fishtail pipes if I'm not careful. Fortunately, the Roadmaster comes with a Fox rear air shock, capable of 0-120 lbs., so one up I keep it around 60 lbs., and two up I jack it up to around 75-80 lbs. Ironically, the Venture has a wet weight of 869 lbs., about 60 lbs. lighter than the Indian, and yet the Indian is easier in the twisties.

As a third example, a 2019 HD Ultra comes in wet at 910 lbs. But it also has the rider a bit more forward on the frame, which changes a lot and in my mind, makes it harder to handle. My 2015 Ultra Limited Low was awkward to me. I only owned it for about 9 months.

 

Of course, other things are in play, like wheel base, tire size, how high the engine is mounted in the frame, etc., but above are the basics. For instance, my Triumph Rocket III was one of the hardest bikes I ever owned to throw into a turn, mainly due to the 240MM rear tire which only wanted to go straight. Hard to get it off that large flat contact patch and onto the rounded part of the tire.

 

In any case, it's all good, and I plan on changing the oil in my new lowered Venture today, as well as change the final oil. Brake pads are on the way... And I still plan on letting my Yamaha dealer balance the carbs and do a plug change, since I believe the plugs must be original and I'm pretty sure the carbs are now out of balance just a hair. Like I said in an earlier post, "Lower mileage, lower maintenance..." People think too much in terms of miles, and not enough in terms of time.

 

OK...I'm a little confused now. Wouldn't lowering the rear increase the rake? It seems that would make it worse in that regard. Not a big deal for me, I actually RAISED the back of my Ventures before buying the '18 model.

[Tennessee]

OK...I'm a little confused now. Wouldn't lowering the rear increase the rake? It seems that would make it worse in that regard. Not a big deal for me, I actually RAISED the back of my Ventures before buying the '18 model.

 

Seems like it would, doesn't it?

But the wheelbase length stays the same. I should have mentioned that in my other post. The rear lowering is almost always a vertical drop of the rear tire. As long as the contact patch of the rear tire stays the same length away from contact patch of the front tire, the rake stays the same.

 

What does change is the COG, center of gravity. With that dropping closer to the ground, and in some cases even moving somewhat backwards due to the vertical drop of the rear wheel, the bike now can corner easier and handle quicker. It becomes easier to swing that weight left or right when it is lower, and especially bring it back to center coming out of the turns.

 

Here's a good example:

If you have ever ridden on a twistie road, (who hasn't), did you ever raise your body in the turns, or did you have a tendency to lower your body in an effort to lower your weight? Nobody ever gets themselves higher, or up on the pegs into a turn - that is a good way to end up on your side. Even when you watch dirt track racing, you see the riders try to get their butts back into the seat when they go into turns after doing jumps or moguls where they might be up on the pegs. Gotta get that COG as low as possible getting into the turns so you can do them easier.

 

You never see anyone raise their body going into a turn, they instead tend to hunker down into a turn, lowering the COG. Same effect when you lower the rear end of the bike permanently. Get the COG as low as possible, easier to turn.

[Condor]

VERY NICE!!!!!!!!!!