suds Posted June 10, 2019 #1 Posted June 10, 2019 I'm having issues with the neural light flickering when the engine is warm and the transmission is in neutral. I thought it was the sensor located behind the clutch slave, but yesterday I made an observation that made me want to consult with the experts here. When the bike leans to the left the light comes on solid. If I lean the bike to the right, the light flickers until I lean it far enough to the right then it goes out completely. Anyone have any idea why it would do this? I'm about replace the sensor with one off a lower mileage bike but I'd like to understand why the current one is acting like this. Thanks in advance for any insight provided. Suds Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
bongobobny Posted June 10, 2019 #2 Posted June 10, 2019 Yes you are right about the location of the switch, and the leaning thing just means that tipping the bike one way makes the switch contacts come closer and tipping the other way makes the contacts further away me thinks...
suds Posted June 10, 2019 Author #3 Posted June 10, 2019 Yes you are right about the location of the switch, and the leaning thing just means that tipping the bike one way makes the switch contacts come closer and tipping the other way makes the contacts further away me thinks...Yeah, I just don't know how things look behind there to understand why contact is intermittent, so I thought I'd ask. I'm off today and will head out to the garage shortly to start getting into it. Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
videoarizona Posted June 10, 2019 #4 Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) The neutral light and gear indicators on the 1st gen...and the neutral light on the 2nd gen are turned on by the switch behind the clutch slave. This "switch" (not really) is a plastic piece with contacts on one side. On the engine block, there is a little contact that has a tiny spring behind it. My guess is the the tiny spring is finally wore out and needs to be replaced or stretched. I didn't go there for fear of screwing something up. I did mine on the center stand. Very little oil leaked out. However, it's almost not worth it to go to the trouble to get there. You will need to replace the intermediate gear case gasket, the little bolt gasket/washer on the bottom side of the case cover, the neutral switch O ring.... and you might as well replace or clean up the clutch slave, etc.. Gear cover off on my 1st Gen Clutch slave/neutral switch area. I've already pulled the slave off...the rod you see is the push rod for the clutch that's pushed by the slave. OH...notice the little shaft that is splined to the bottom left? There should be a teeny punch mark on it. Barely see mine. This is to help you locate the shifting mechanism that you took off to get to this point. You should take a look before you take the shifter off. I had 2 punch marks to align. easy...just don't overlook it. Switch. Down low...behind the stator wires. Take the wires off their keeper and bend it out of the way. Then lift the wires to see the switch. This is necessary as well if you pull the slave. Engine side of the switch. The rectangular contact at 3 O'clock is neutral. On the other side, the wire that is soldered to the raised contact is neutral. Here is the pin that rotates to make the gear change/neutral light come on....I didn't go here. Probably should have. Last thought: Remember how the switch comes out and make sure the bike is in neutral BEFORE you take her apart. That way you'll be able to get the switch back in properly. I did all this looking for a leak on my 1st gen....never found the leak but cleaned the contacts and replaced the clutch slave while I was there. I still have a flicker in the neutral light now and then. Doesn't bother me. I feel the scoot can have some quirks...heck..she's an old lady! She can be cranky once in a while. It's all apart of her personality! Edited June 10, 2019 by videoarizona add and clarify
suds Posted June 10, 2019 Author #5 Posted June 10, 2019 The neutral light and gear indicators on the 1st gen...and the neutral light on the 2nd gen are turned on by the switch behind the clutch slave. This "switch" (not really) is a plastic piece with contacts on one side. On the engine block, there is a little contact that has a tiny spring behind it. My guess is the the tiny spring is finally wore out and needs to be replaced or stretched. I didn't go there for fear of screwing something up. I did mine on the center stand. Very little oil leaked out..... First of all, thank you videoarizona for your responses to me about this topic. I truly appreciate you giving of your time. I posted this to try and assess if this is something I should tackle before my road trip down to Nashville. The reason I'm looking into all this is because when I stop for gas, I can't start my bike if it doesn't see neutral. People have told me I can start it with the clutch in but my bike doesn't let me. Perhaps there's an issue with the clutch switch? Now I understand that there's a spring that might be worn out, I understand what's going on. I'll just have to lean to the left to start up! [emoji23] It looks like a screw in the middle of that part with the pin. Do you know if I can take that out to get at that spring? Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
videoarizona Posted June 10, 2019 #6 Posted June 10, 2019 Thank you again for taking the time to educate me. I've read a lot on the site and most of it is yours and cowpuc's. That screw in the middle of that part with pin... do you know if I remove it, can it get me access to the spring for the pin? Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk That I don't know, Suds. I never went that far. You can try a pair of tweezers and see if you can get it out and then maybe the spring. I wouldn't think there would be anything holding it in place. Have you downloaded the owners and shop manuals from this site? They are free.... https://www.venturerider.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?13-Venture-and-Venture-Royale-Tech-Library-(-83-93)-READ-ONLY! Go here and at the bottom are the manuals. Download them.
suds Posted June 10, 2019 Author #7 Posted June 10, 2019 You can't pull the pin out, but I pushed on it and it feels strong. I'm going to put the other sensor in and see if it performs better. The upper one in the pic is my original one, the lower one from the wrecker. Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
cowpuc Posted June 11, 2019 #8 Posted June 11, 2019 I was going to suggest checking the connections under the dash to see if you had something loose going on there causing the light to flicker BUT = that would definitely not cause the bike to not start in neutral... Thinking @videoarizona has you headed in the direction here... Please keep us posted about what you find brother!!
suds Posted June 11, 2019 Author #9 Posted June 11, 2019 The new (to me) sensor is in and, after a brief test ride in the rain, the dash shows all the gears. Now I just need to get a longer ride in, get it heated up and see if the neutral light flickers. I'm cautiously optimistic that it's fixed, but then again, that's my normal state [emoji23] Thanks for chiming in cowpuc! Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
cowpuc Posted June 11, 2019 #10 Posted June 11, 2019 The new (to me) sensor is in and, after a brief test ride in the rain, the dash shows all the gears. Now I just need to get a longer ride in, get it heated up and see if the neutral light flickers. I'm cautiously optimistic that it's fixed, but then again, that's my normal state [emoji23] Thanks for chiming in cowpuc! Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk You betcha Suds!! Always a pleasure!
bongobobny Posted June 11, 2019 #11 Posted June 11, 2019 Other than the spring wearing out as VAZ mentioned, you can polish up the electrical contacts to remove the tarnish and corrosion, and if you can find some, there is actually a conductive "grease" that will improve the electrical conduction and keep the contacts lubricated. Many years ago when TV's had the "drum" type channel selectors you would apply this special grease to the contacts to keep them working so you could actually watch the selected TV channel without excess snow. Sounds like your problem is most likely fixed!!!
suds Posted June 11, 2019 Author #12 Posted June 11, 2019 Bongo, are you taking about dielectric grease? I thought about that but wasn't sure about the environment in there and if it was suitable for that stuff. It's actually not a hard job at all to get to that sensor. I may go back and put dielectric grease in there after my trip. Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
cptriker1 Posted June 11, 2019 #13 Posted June 11, 2019 I have the EXACT same problem with mine. I've got to go ahead and order gaskets as I've got that stupid leak in that side that's got me so mad. But this morning i was parking my bike at a store 30 miles from the house and fell due to a MASSIVE pothole i thought I missed. When these bikes goes over you're just 100% screwed! I'm so glad I was wearing my gloves! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Karaboo Posted June 11, 2019 #14 Posted June 11, 2019 Do NOT use dielectric grease in there! It is an insulator. Use a conductive grease made for sliding contacts.
suds Posted June 11, 2019 Author #15 Posted June 11, 2019 Do NOT use dielectric grease in there! It is an insulator. Use a conductive grease made for sliding contacts.Ok, I'll look for that, thanks for the heads up! Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
bongobobny Posted June 12, 2019 #16 Posted June 12, 2019 Bongo, are you taking about dielectric grease? I thought about that but wasn't sure about the environment in there and if it was suitable for that stuff. It's actually not a hard job at all to get to that sensor. I may go back and put dielectric grease in there after my trip. Sent from my SM-G955W using TapatalkNo, dielectric grease is an insulator! It is a special grease of sorts that is an actual conductor and you use it very sparingly. Regular contact cleaner will work sort of OK but the special contact grease, if you can find it, lasts much longer...
bongobobny Posted June 12, 2019 #17 Posted June 12, 2019 I have the EXACT same problem with mine. I've got to go ahead and order gaskets as I've got that stupid leak in that side that's got me so mad. But this morning i was parking my bike at a store 30 miles from the house and fell due to a MASSIVE pothole i thought I missed. When these bikes goes over you're just 100% screwed! I'm so glad I was wearing my gloves! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190611/a82a993361358d4f2e4a38a980990080.jpg Sent from my SM-G950U using TapatalkBeen there, done that!! When those 900 lb touring bikes want to take a nap, there is no stopping them!!!
Prairiehammer Posted June 17, 2019 #18 Posted June 17, 2019 The gear indicator switch uses a brass pin as the sliding contact. This pin becomes worn and the tip flattened from wear. This reduces the effective length of the pin and enlarges the contact area with resultant poor contact. Remove the Phillips screw and pull the pin out and the spring behind it. Either replace the pin and spring or stretch the spring a bit or place an appropriate shim between the spring and pin. File the end of the pin to more a point to help with good contact.
cptriker1 Posted June 19, 2019 #19 Posted June 19, 2019 Are the pin and spring available at Yamaha? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Prairiehammer Posted June 23, 2019 #20 Posted June 23, 2019 Are the pin and spring available at Yamaha? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Yes. [TABLE=class: table table-hover table-striped table-responsive] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]SPRING, COMPRESSION 90501-06022-00 In Stock [/TD] [TD] $3.40 $2.48 [/TD] [TD=class: tabQty] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: tabQty] https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/90501-06022-00?ref=cb55e21b8884f31e414714ca7bf2dee46e76196f [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]POINT, NEUTRAL 4UN-18542-00-00[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/4UN-18542-00-00?ref=cb55e21b8884f31e414714ca7bf2dee46e76196f
Patch Posted June 23, 2019 #21 Posted June 23, 2019 Good to see you posting Kev! This dielectric grease stuff just keeps getting rehashed! The location in question is ideal for dielectric grease, zero doubt about it. A thin even layer on all bearing locations. Here's a quote on it's use.. "Does dielectric grease improve connection?Dielectric grease will actually increase voltage breakdown across insulators, especially in the presence of moisture. ... Silicone dielectric grease will prolongconnection life as well as, and have just as good conduction performance, as a properly selected metallic powder grease (conductive grease). "
Karaboo Posted June 25, 2019 #22 Posted June 25, 2019 Or this: "Dielectric grease, or tune-up grease, is a silicone-based grease that repels moisture and protects electrical connections against corrosion. ... The grease does not conduct electricity, so it shouldn't be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection."
Patch Posted June 25, 2019 #23 Posted June 25, 2019 Or this: "Dielectric grease, or tune-up grease, is a silicone-based grease that repels moisture and protects electrical connections against corrosion. ... The grease does not conduct electricity, so it shouldn't be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection." I disagree! The grease is non conductive this is true, it also does not bleed and that is good! The bullet shaped contact will make local contact, I promise.
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