cowpuc Posted June 11, 2019 #26 Posted June 11, 2019 Not the best quality but you can just about see the wheel wobble... Does anyone know if this is just out of balance? Or something else? Or maybe even normal? IMHO, being out of balance won't show up till ya get er up to speed. A tire not seated properly or a belt not being formed properly is more likely.. It's hard to tell from the video and without being there Graham but I do think I see some tread/tire movement on the left side.. Being new it should roll smooth as butter IMHO..
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 11, 2019 Author #27 Posted June 11, 2019 IMHO, being out of balance won't show up till ya get er up to speed. A tire not seated properly or a belt not being formed properly is more likely.. It's hard to tell from the video and without being there Graham but I do think I see some tread/tire movement on the left side.. Being new it should roll smooth as butter IMHO.. I've noticed (better late than never) the disk is rubbing on the brake pads / caliper indicating the wheel is moving not just the tyre... This is when rolling by hand... First step I think is instead of just re- torqued nuts I'm going to disassemble the whole thing and triple check everything is correct... Thank you to everyone for their help and suggestions so far.
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 11, 2019 Author #28 Posted June 11, 2019 Sometimes in life you get thrown a curve ball...A problem that stumps you... One of life's great mysteries... Other times you are a complete wazzock... I've bought a new torque wrench recently... After years of having one in ft lb I failed to notice my new one is..... In Newton Meters So basically I've only torqued the back wheel up to about 80ftlb... In theory this should cure the problem (can't check properly as it's raining and I haven't finished poking nails in my eyes as punishment) I check back to confirm this was the issue... In the meantime I want to again thank everyone for your help and suggestions
Patch Posted June 11, 2019 #29 Posted June 11, 2019 Also it is a new tire, you may want to give it a good washing with a brush and soapy water, Take it for a highway drive where you can brake it in straight up. Remember the tire in a curve is running higher up the tread pattern, these areas also need breaking in. In you video the tire isn't spinning fast enough to see any abnormalities, what you do want to listen for is, no squeaks or crunching sounds, and yes it is common to hear the pads rub some, a could rotor verse a hot one means little. You do know we enjoy other members problems right? Brings a sense of relief that its not us having the issue, and also that we are needed by someone, somewhere even if sadly only briefly;)
cowpuc Posted June 11, 2019 #30 Posted June 11, 2019 Also it is a new tire, you may want to give it a good washing with a brush and soapy water, Take it for a highway drive where you can brake it in straight up. Remember the tire in a curve is running higher up the tread pattern, these areas also need breaking in. In you video the tire isn't spinning fast enough to see any abnormalities, what you do want to listen for is, no squeaks or crunching sounds, and yes it is common to hear the pads rub some, a could rotor verse a hot one means little. You do know we enjoy other members problems right? Brings a sense of relief that its not us having the issue, and also that we are needed by someone, somewhere even if sadly only briefly;) That student that is always causing mischiefs hand slowly rises in the back of Patches classroom.. As Teacher Patch reluctantly call's upon the lop eared troublemakin varmint one more time, the student asks: But Master,, isnt high speed spinning basically only used for checking the balance of the tire where rotational speed is affected by improper weight(s) rotational effect? It seems like slower rotational speeds (even slower than shown in the video) would be necessary for checking bead seating, belt issues affecting side to side movement, truing spokes and even a bent rim. I use to use a dial indicator in my shop for truing wheels on spoked wheels and cant imagine trying to work with them, locating high and low spots at high rotational speeds..
Patch Posted June 11, 2019 #31 Posted June 11, 2019 That student that is always causing mischiefs hand slowly rises in the back of Patches classroom.. As Teacher Patch reluctantly call's upon the lop eared troublemakin varmint one more time, the student asks: But Master,, isnt high speed spinning basically only used for checking the balance of the tire where rotational speed is affected by improper weight(s) rotational effect? It seems like slower rotational speeds (even slower than shown in the video) would be necessary for checking bead seating, belt issues affecting side to side movement, truing spokes and even a bent rim. I use to use a dial indicator in my shop for truing wheels on spoked wheels and cant imagine trying to work with them, locating high and low spots at high rotational speeds.. You are correct GrassHopper! But now pay close attention; on a shaft drive even with new bearings we can see some wobble between cost and drive sides of the ring, this because the ring isn't under load! Speed it up and you mask the lash;) But in my mind I don't see any abnormal roll on the wheel as shown in 0.8 sec of play, but, if the wheel were speed up then the bike would develop a very noticeable swing left to right and that would suggest as you and Don mentioned earlier something is out of order. We know we can't rely on the rotor as a tell tail unless its way wrong. We know OP has an issue leaned over in a curve but makes no mention that he is feeling a buck when riding straight up sooo, would a tire not seated buck at it highest point? I've heard good things about Avon but you know most tires are slippy when new, I think he should rule it out before tearing too much down is all.
Patch Posted June 11, 2019 #32 Posted June 11, 2019 Going to add this, 1 new 1 broken in, assuming they are matched tires.
Freebird Posted June 11, 2019 #33 Posted June 11, 2019 Well, I hope that torquing it properly solved your problem but I seriously doubt that it did. Though I would certainly want to torque it to the recommeded...haven't looked it up but I think it is 110 ft. lbs...... but I think that 80 is tight enough that it wouldn't contribute to the issue you are having.
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 12, 2019 Author #34 Posted June 12, 2019 Well tightening up didn't stop the minor wheel movement... But maybe that's just normal with a wheel not under load? I'm going to nip up the steering head bearings to rule that out... Maybe even take the wheel back to the tyre shop to completely rule out balancing issues and go from there. No chance of a test ride in the next few days due to it being 11°c (52°f) and pouring down (summer in Britain!) If I'm still not happy I'll nip her to my local mechanic.. Thankfully a good guy who won't rip me off! ha I'll update when I know more...
cowpuc Posted June 12, 2019 #35 Posted June 12, 2019 Another thing to consider, possibly, Graham is that, IMHO, when a bike tire wears it wears "square" so you are basically no longer riding on the radius of the tire. Your tire patch to the ground is greatly increased as it were. When you put a new tire on (unless you are a Dark Sider) that contact patch instantly becomes very minimal compared to a worn tire. This does result (again, IMHO) in a major change in the "feel" of the bike when riding and can also affect tire road noise with some brands of tires.
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 12, 2019 Author #36 Posted June 12, 2019 Just thought I'd update... Happy the back was OK... I moved to the front Head bearings seem OK... Then I did a quick bounce test... Horrible awful creaking (springs?) noise coming from the front (unheard with the engine running on my rides?) ... After 3 bounces the handles dropped to the tank (they're tightened up properly) . To say I'm unhappy is an understatement. It'll now be going in to a mechanic to get it looked at properly. I've contacted the recovery company and they have said send us a quote (if they pay up is another story ha) Thank you again to everyone for all your help and advice. This site is awesome!
slowrollwv Posted June 12, 2019 #37 Posted June 12, 2019 If you had the bars tight then they broke something in the tree when they strapped it down.
Patch Posted June 12, 2019 #38 Posted June 12, 2019 To be sure and not that we suggest we know better then your mechanic; he would serve you best to also check the air line from the compressor to the forks for fluid trapped in them.
slowrollwv Posted June 12, 2019 #39 Posted June 12, 2019 To be sure and not that we suggest we know better then your mechanic; he would serve you best to also check the air line from the compressor to the forks for fluid trapped in them. Steven the gen 2's do not have a compressor or lines to the forks. But they could have damaged the caps on top of the forks where air is put in them.
Patch Posted June 12, 2019 #40 Posted June 12, 2019 Steven the gen 2's do not have a compressor or lines to the forks. But they could have damaged the caps on top of the forks where air is put in them. Thanks I didn't know that.
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 21, 2019 Author #42 Posted June 21, 2019 Any news? It's due in at the mechanic hopefully next week.... I'm going to have another look over the weekend... Maybe it's something I've not spotted.... My VN1500 was a bit 'off' handling wise when I put a bit too much air (within range) in the rear suspension... Now it's at 5psi (twin shocks) it rides nice... Maybe the the new tyre (now at the correct pressure and new) has left the suspension overly hard leading to (my perception of) instability... More than likely I'm clutching at straws but it won't cost anything to try.... I'll update when I know anything more
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 24, 2019 Author #43 Posted June 24, 2019 Well another quick potter in the garage after dismissing my air idea as unlikely... Grabbed the (now fixed in place) handlebars and gave them a shake side to side and up and down. There seems to be ALOT of up and down movement in the risers... More so in the left. Never shook them like that before (why would I?) so don't know how much movement there should be (my VN1500 risers are solid and don't move at all) Not sure if this is an easy fix or not? This would possibly explain why left corners felt so 'wobbly'?
Patch Posted June 24, 2019 #44 Posted June 24, 2019 As\mentioned if your front is out of order, things like one fork stiffer than the other, weather that be spring or air related she will want to fall off in a lean. The good one or stiffer one I should say will tend to push her over... The same thing can happen when the front is too high and stiff.
slowrollwv Posted June 24, 2019 #45 Posted June 24, 2019 Well another quick potter in the garage after dismissing my air idea as unlikely... Grabbed the (now fixed in place) handlebars and gave them a shake side to side and up and down. There seems to be ALOT of up and down movement in the risers... More so in the left. Never shook them like that before (why would I?) so don't know how much movement there should be (my VN1500 risers are solid and don't move at all) Not sure if this is an easy fix or not? This would possibly explain why left corners felt so 'wobbly'? Check the locking nuts on your risers. If they are loose your bars will move all over. If they are tight then you have something else wrong with the tree. You can check the riser bolts from underneath by turning the bars to the left then to the right. I have picked my bike off the ground using the bars and grab rails and my bars don't move at all.
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 27, 2019 Author #46 Posted June 27, 2019 Check the locking nuts on your risers. If they are loose your bars will move all over. If they are tight then you have something else wrong with the tree. You can check the riser bolts from underneath by turning the bars to the left then to the right. I have picked my bike off the ground using the bars and grab rails and my bars don't move at all. I can't get in at the moment to see how tight they are (no spanner that size) there's quite a gap at the riser bolt... Here's a pic taken off this site of what they should look like (you can see it on the right) .. These are mine.... Even with out these pictures I'm convinced now this is the issue
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 27, 2019 Author #47 Posted June 27, 2019 Better image of how they SHOULD look
slowrollwv Posted June 27, 2019 #48 Posted June 27, 2019 They look to be loose. I would try to tighten them and if you can get the front wheel off the ground you can check the head bearings. There is a thread in the tech section about how to check and tighten them.
cowpuc Posted June 27, 2019 #49 Posted June 27, 2019 They also appear to be rubber mounted (common) for anti-vibes and the Crown Nuts may not allow for tightening. If this is so and they are loose, maybe remove the Crown Nuts and reshim against the rubber using washers or order up new rubber dampners as shown here = part number 19: https://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/500449a9f8700209bc79057d/steering
GrahamLFCkeeper Posted June 27, 2019 Author #50 Posted June 27, 2019 They also appear to be rubber mounted (common) for anti-vibes and the Crown Nuts may not allow for tightening. If this is so and they are loose, maybe remove the Crown Nuts and reshim against the rubber using washers or order up new rubber dampners as shown here = part number 19: https://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/500449a9f8700209bc79057d/steering They are torqued up correctly, so even as a temporary measure I'll pick up some 'industrial strength' washers tomorrow see if that does the trick... Cheers
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