1997 Royal Star Classic Accelerating Issue

[Scotts royal star classic]

Hi, my 1997 Royal Star Classic idles and runs great for the most part, however, when I am accelerating to a higher speed above 40 or so it feels like it is not hitting on all 4 cylinders, it is sluggish. It has the same feeling accelerating at any high speed. You would never know driving at any steady speed just when I accelerate. I would appreciate any input as to what the issue may be.

[Du-Rron]

Hi, my 1997 Royal Star Classic idles and runs great for the most part, however, when I am accelerating to a higher speed above 40 or so it feels like it is not hitting on all 4 cylinders, it is sluggish. It has the same feeling accelerating at any high speed. You would never know driving at any steady speed just when I accelerate. I would appreciate any input as to what the issue may be.

 

Wild shot in the dark...

 

Clogged Air filters.

Air leak in intake system.

Rotten carb diaphragms.

Bad float level

Clogged Main jets.

Weak fuel pump.

 

You have to start ripping it apart and might as well start with the air filters/air intake system.

[M61A1MECH]

So we need to clarify a couple of things here.

 

The Royal Stars all have 2 overdrive gears, 4th and 5th, neither is meant for any sort of hard or aggressive accelerating.

 

If you are in say 5th gear tooling along at 55 MPH and want to pull out an pass someone and open up the throttle, it is going to bog down, shutter and lug the motor, all because the gearing is to high, if you gently roll on the throttle it will gently gain speed and RPM. The same will happen in 4th but to a much lesser degree.

 

If you have not done this, take the bike out and instead of clicking through all the gears and motoring down the road in 5th, stop in 3rd gear and get a feel for the performance the bike is capable of, then find a nice wide open stretch of road and while still in 3rd open the throttle up as fast as you like, if all is good with the carbs, air filter , plugs and other systems that will affect the performance, it should accelerate at a very nice rate. If that does not happen, then start looking at performance issues, noted in the previous post. If you are going along in 5th at 65 MPH and need to pass some one, click it down 2 gears and open her up, my 98 Tour Classic would do 85 in 3rd gear before hitting the rev limiter.

 

Keep us posted on what you find.

[Du-Rron]

[cowpuc]

So we need to clarify a couple of things here.

 

The Royal Stars all have 2 overdrive gears, 4th and 5th, neither is meant for any sort of hard or aggressive accelerating.

 

If you are in say 5th gear tooling along at 55 MPH and want to pull out an pass someone and open up the throttle, it is going to bog down, shutter and lug the motor, all because the gearing is to high, if you gently roll on the throttle it will gently gain speed and RPM. The same will happen in 4th but to a much lesser degree.

 

If you have not done this, take the bike out and instead of clicking through all the gears and motoring down the road in 5th, stop in 3rd gear and get a feel for the performance the bike is capable of, then find a nice wide open stretch of road and while still in 3rd open the throttle up as fast as you like, if all is good with the carbs, air filter , plugs and other systems that will affect the performance, it should accelerate at a very nice rate. If that does not happen, then start looking at performance issues, noted in the previous post. If you are going along in 5th at 65 MPH and need to pass some one, click it down 2 gears and open her up, my 98 Tour Classic would do 85 in 3rd gear before hitting the rev limiter.

 

Keep us posted on what you find.

 

That and I dont think those early RS's had a balance shaft for spinning em up and had smaller carbs and such,, sort of "detuned" version of the other V-4's.. Thinking they were maybe 65 hp? If so, they probably wont perform up to normal Venture V-4 specs when diggin on it,, if I am correct in this... All said, I would still take a peek at the Carb slide diaphrams and slide assemblies if it were mine as mentioned by Duey. Torn or pin holed diaphram complications usually show up in loss of power IMHO.. A good tune up including fixing the diaphrams if their holed might not be a bad idea.. Don't forget to sync those carbs too Scott!!

By the way,,, from one Scott to another,,, WELCOME TO VR!!

Scott (aka = Puc)

[BlueSky]

Are you sure it's running on all four cylinders? Check the exhaust pipes temperatures to see.

[Patch]

My read 1997 shows 75 hp @ 4750 rpm and 81 LBS @ 3500 running on 32mm Carbs..

 

A couple of things, when you are cruising at as mentioned 55 mph your rpm's are low if in 5th gear for snap acceleration but ok for easy excell... This is not because the "5th hear is too high a ratio" it is because it is the wrong gear to be in for quick acceleration! These bikes are manual shifts not automatics with gear down over low pressure drops!

 

If your only acceleration problem is when in 5th above 60 mph, then you have low compression issues, period! (or your brakes are on fire)

 

If it is as assumed in the OP then it is likely as Puc mentioned your slides!

 

Still it would hurt to know your compression readings.

Patch

[M61A1MECH]

My read 1997 shows 75 hp @ 4750 rpm and 81 LBS @ 3500 running on 32mm Carbs..

 

I think the original Royals have 28mm carbs and the Venture and later model Tour Deluxe have 32 mm carbs, not that it really matters much to the OP in correcting his issue.

[Patch]

I think the original Royals have 28mm carbs and the Venture and later model Tour Deluxe have 32 mm carbs, not that it really matters much to the OP in correcting his issue.

 

 

Let's assume this is so? The 28mm will perform sharply out of the hole, but with less HP however above the max torque output tho; simply put this becomes a % filling compromise.

One formula that can be very helpful is RPM/MAP however the formula is usually dismissed because Makers don't publish their filling % which means we have to develop our own thru practical setups that allow for some pretty good guesses to enhance our targets!

 

Why this understanding bears relevance is cause we often pic shortcuts - so lets pic one for sake of discussion, final drive swap.

RPM is critical here because we need the extra band width/range so this make for at least 2 a valid arguments to make against or for some and for, for some. Yet I would argue that this mode in this discussion as mentioned with 28mm would be to snappy out of the hole for a touring class and a knock down horse power too soon on the curve; because as rpm increases filling and combustion timing become harder to achieve! That explained differently would mean higher wasting of combustion cycles. Also in other words the pump can't inhale enough air at higher rpm's which will come fast when measuring time over distance!

 

I'm sure my thinking shows averages around and on a touring class rides, not all will see things this way but to the long distance rider...

Displacement wise we can shift the 2 curves to modify our riding styles or wants, this is a great feature of the sport and a strong statement for the engines potential(s) and is in fact what Yam did when choosing the 28mm for this model while using the V4 platform, more cruiser than long distanceas in full touring day in day out.

 

Make sense?

Patch

[M61A1MECH]

Actually I think we may all wasting our time on this thread trying to help the OP, he has not been back to the forum since he made his 1 and only post, when he returns with some insight on his riding habits and condition of his bike, we will have a better understanding of his real issue. It may well be he is just trying to ride the V-4 like a V-twin, as stated above they are very different and require different riding styles.

 

I will continue to monitor the thread hoping for more information from the OP.

[cowpuc]

IMHO,, something to always consider is the unchangable math behind the torque/hp curve on any internal combustion engine.. That being that at 5250 rpm exactly the torque curve always falls below the horsepower curve and above this RPM, Horse Power is what your building on/for. Also note that above those R's = engine internal balancing becomes more and more a critical issue..

That said, it would be best to consider that the 1996 thru 2001 Royal Stars did NOT have an internal balance shaft like the 83 thru 93 Ventures, 1999 thru 2013 RSV's or the 2005 thru 2009 RSTD's had/have. For understanding and clarification = Here is a parts diagram showing the crankshaft assembly in the 1996 thru 2001 R.S.'s: https://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/50043cccf8700209bc78d813/crankshaft-piston

 

and here is the parts diagram for the others (this is of the Royal Star) WITH the balance shaft shown: https://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/50045f42f8700209bc794d80/crankshaft-piston

 

IMHO, part of the detuning and tuning for "torque" that Mom Yam did on the 96/2001 was in decreasing the carb sizes to 28mm (no need for bigger carbs without the ability to reliably spin the motor up into HP heaven that us balance shaft people enjoy). Also, by its detune design, there is no need for the balance shaft so why carry the extra weight of such, so it was dropped..

Adding V-Max performance parts or any other parts that are designed to function in HP Heaven is not a good plan on the 96/01, IMHO, in the unbalanced 96/01 V-4 as it, IMHO, is not designed for higher revs.. Tossing gearing at the bike to encourage performance thru gear ratios is the better option IMHO, unless, of course,, one doesnt care about engine longevity,, again, IMHO.

It does go without saying though that the first thing to do with ANY engine is making sure it is in good tune,, diaphrams are whole and carb syncing is spot on.. Changing air flow and/or pipe design is rarely a plus when considering performance unless you have the internal parts (both top end and lower end) requiring those changes to utilize the performance design/outcome you are looking for (again, IMHO). In the end,, all the parts and pieces have to work together to bring the performance outcome you are looking for..

Some thoughts:

Puc

[cowpuc]

Actually I think we may all wasting our time on this thread trying to help the OP, he has not been back to the forum since he made his 1 and only post, when he returns with some insight on his riding habits and condition of his bike, we will have a better understanding of his real issue. It may well be he is just trying to ride the V-4 like a V-twin, as stated above they are very different and require different riding styles.

 

I will continue to monitor the thread hoping for more information from the OP.

 

GOOD POINT :thumbsup:y

 

On the other hand though Steve,, I actually have some pretty good conversations by talking to myself ,, and tend to not lose as many friends that way either

[Patch]

IMHO, part of the detuning and tuning for "torque" that Mom Yam did on the 96/2001 was in decreasing the carb sizes to 28mm (no need for bigger carbs without the ability to reliably spin the motor up into HP heaven that us balance shaft people enjoy). Also, by its detune design, there is no need for the balance shaft so why carry the extra weight of such, so it was dropped..

Adding V-Max performance parts or any other parts that are designed to function in HP Heaven is not a good plan on the 96/01, IMHO, in the unbalanced 96/01 V-4 as it, IMHO, is not designed for higher revs.. Tossing gearing at the bike to encourage performance thru gear ratios is the better option IMHO, unless, of course,, one doesnt care about engine longevity,, again, IMHO.

It does go without saying though that the first thing to do with ANY engine is making sure it is in good tune,, diaphrams are whole and carb syncing is spot on.. Changing air flow and/or pipe design is rarely a plus when considering performance unless you have the internal parts (both top end and lower end) requiring those changes to utilize the performance design/outcome you are looking for (again, IMHO). In the end,, all the parts and pieces have to work together to bring the performance outcome you are looking for..

Some thoughts:

Puc

 

Right On Puc!

[Patch]

GOOD POINT :thumbsup:y

 

On the other hand though Steve,, I actually have some pretty good conversations by talking to myself ,, and tend to not lose as many friends that way either

 

 

Somewhere down the line someone will read this thread and take pause, not a wast of time IMHO;)

[M61A1MECH]

Do not forget that one reason that Yamaha did not put the counter balancer in the original Royal Stars was the fact that they were targeting the Harley crowd and wanted that V-twin like lope, as I recall Harley sued Yamaha for infringing on their "Potato-Potato" exhaust note. In my opinion it was poor marketing on Yamaha's part not to use the V-max motor or something more like it in the original Royal Stars , Royal Star Ventures and the new Gen 3 Ventures, but tat is an entirely new topic.

[cowpuc]

Do not forget that one reason that Yamaha did not put the counter balancer in the original Royal Stars was the fact that they were targeting the Harley crowd and wanted that V-twin like lope, as I recall Harley sued Yamaha for infringing on their "Potato-Potato" exhaust note. In my opinion it was poor marketing on Yamaha's part not to use the V-max motor or something more like it in the original Royal Stars , Royal Star Ventures and the new Gen 3 Ventures, but tat is an entirely new topic.

 

But in the spirit of Maintenance Days now past and in a whole hearted effort to keep this thread alive and give the OP here a little more time to respond, :Im not listening toabout the "Gen 3 Venture" that Mom Yam forgot to drop the V-Max motor in could be entertaining ...

Short version of this... While viewing @Freebirds GORGEOUS new scoot and figuring out that, indeed,, the upper section of those amazing lower fairing intake grills are absolutely nonfunctional. A while back this was discussed with someone claiming that this was not so and that the complete louvered area on those lowers were functional for passing air thru to the rider and engine. I/we debunct this thought and discovered that only the very bottom louvers(bottom 2 or 3 as I recall) are actually functional = the large area of louvers are indeed fake.

While discussing this with the owner of bike ( hi Don) and discussing the other methods of getting air movement into the cockpit besides utilizing the foot coolers (the actually functional louvered window at the bottom of the fake louvers) that our Bossman had mounted on his steed (side air deflectors mounted on the lowers - I believe Don mentioned those were a factory "option" = looked great IMHO) , the point was made that his new Gen 3 had the appearance (when looking at it head on) of a planned V-Maxed Gen 3 Venture!! If you look closely and consider the area/size of those lower "air scoops" and the evilness that the headlight assembly displays = it really looks like Mom Yam was actually thinking 1700cc V-Max motor with its FI intake needs being fed by jet fighter style air intakes :cool10: = its a BEAUTIFUL thing!! Then it was like something happened.. Like someone at Mom Yam Inc. got wind that touring people aren't go fast people and the planned REAL industry changing :guitarist 2: 3rd Gen Venture with the V-Max motor was dropped for a more reasonable (both in RnD cost and final sales outlook predictions) for the more common and normal air cooled V-Twin platform.. The intakes were sealed and their housings were filled with doo-dads and the aft area behind the fairing was designed around the historic HD look/feel platform with some pretty cool astectic lines built in...

As we chatted the night away at MD like a bunch of teenagers debating Fords/Chevys and Mopars in the days of our childhoods, one of the more astute VR members (may have even been Mr. Nelson himself) mentioned the fact that perhaps Mom Yam could have saved herself some embarrassment and actually increased the profitability of the 3rd Gen (we also debated whether or not the new bike is actually a "3rd Gen" = SOOO MUCH FUN THOSE MAINTENANCE DAYS ARE ) simply by not having named it a "Venture" at all.. A name such as "Star StratoTourer" was mentioned and a hearty won out from the majority of attenders of that great debate...

There ya go OP,, bought cha a little more time

[Patch]

But in the spirit of Maintenance Days now past and in a whole hearted effort to keep this thread alive and give the OP here a little more time to respond, :Im not listening toabout the "Gen 3 Venture" that Mom Yam forgot to drop the V-Max motor in could be entertaining ...

Short version of this... While viewing Freebirds GORGEOUS new scoot and figuring out that, indeed,, the upper section of those amazing lower fairing intake grills are absolutely nonfunctional. A while back this was discussed with someone claiming that this was not so and that the complete louvered area on those lowers were functional for passing air thru to the rider and engine. I/we debunct this thought and discovered that only the very bottom louvers(bottom 2 or 3 as I recall) are actually functional = the large area of louvers are indeed fake.

While discussing this with the owner of bike ( hi Don) and discussing the other methods of getting air movement into the cockpit besides utilizing the foot coolers (the actually functional louvered window at the bottom of the fake louvers) that our Bossman had mounted on his steed (side air deflectors mounted on the lowers - I believe Don mentioned those were a factory "option" = looked great IMHO) , the point was made that his new Gen 3 had the appearance (when looking at it head on) of a planned V-Maxed Gen 3 Venture!! If you look closely and consider the area/size of those lower "air scoops" and the evilness that the headlight assembly displays = it really looks like Mom Yam was actually thinking 1700cc V-Max motor with its FI intake needs being fed by jet fighter style air intakes :cool10: = its a BEAUTIFUL thing!! Then it was like something happened.. Like someone at Mom Yam Inc. got wind that touring people aren't go fast people and the planned REAL industry changing :guitarist 2: 3rd Gen Venture with the V-Max motor was dropped for a more reasonable (both in RnD cost and final sales outlook predictions) for the more common and normal air cooled V-Twin platform.. The intakes were sealed and their housings were filled with doo-dads and the aft area behind the fairing was designed around the historic HD look/feel platform with some pretty cool astectic lines built in...

As we chatted the night away at MD like a bunch of teenagers debating Fords/Chevys and Mopars in the days of our childhoods, one of the more astute VR members (may have even been Mr. Nelson himself) mentioned the fact that perhaps Mom Yam could have saved herself some embarrassment and actually increased the profitability of the 3rd Gen (we also debated whether or not the new bike is actually a "3rd Gen" = SOOO MUCH FUN THOSE MAINTENANCE DAYS ARE ) simply by not having named it a "Venture" at all.. A name such as "Star StratoTourer" was mentioned and a hearty won out from the majority of attenders of that great debate...

There ya go OP,, bought cha a little more time

 

 

 

 

WOW Wizard Puc this is some portal you conjured up!

"Yam was actually thinking 1700cc V-Max motor with its FI intake needs being fed by jet fighter style air intakes :cool10: = its a BEAUTIFUL thing!! Then it was like something happened.. Like someone at Mom Yam Inc. got wind that touring people aren't go fast people and the planned REAL industry changing :guitarist 2:""""

 

Well I can't be the only VR Gent that suddenly reversed alphabet''s plus one from Mama Yam to Yama Mama??? Add whip, hang portrait in Yam's boardroom, at eye level, at the end of that long decision making table; so as Mr. Chair should face when looking for inspiration before deciding that our maturity level (U know stuck on 39 their target market) what would She want me to do? What, When, Where, questions he could ask just never ask Why, cause snap goes the other W;)

 

[Du-Rron]

... the point was made that his new Gen 3 had the appearance (when looking at it head on) of a planned V-Maxed Gen 3 Venture!! If you look closely and consider the area/size of those lower "air scoops" and the evilness that the headlight assembly displays = it really looks like Mom Yam was actually thinking 1700cc V-Max motor with its FI intake needs being fed by jet fighter style air intakes

 

Well exactly. I took the bait and Ventured a guess that it would be a V-4 just by the looks of the headlamps also.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?129167-Yamaha-Part-three/page2

 

post number 22

[cowpuc]

Well exactly. I took the bait and Ventured a guess that it would be a V-4 just by the looks of the headlamps also.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?129167-Yamaha-Part-three/page2

 

post number 22

 

For you lop eared varmints with a broken clicker finger here is the post Duey is referencing:

 

Du-Rron

User Gallery

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Join DateNov 2014LocationSan Angelo, TX.Posts885

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Re: Yamaha Part three

I am saying yall are all wrong.

4 lamps in the sneak picture... means 4 cylinders. The lamps form a V. That means a V4 engine.

Where's my checkbook?!?!?!?

 

 

 

and for anyone wanting to re-read an amazing thread,,, I just reread the whole thread where Duey directed us to and WOWZY WOW WOW WOW was THAT entertaining (THANK YOU Du-Rron!! )

[Scotts royal star classic]

I came down to the conclusion that you are exactly right. I rode in third and it picks up impressively. I was Twisting the throttle in 4th and 5 th expecting a lot, at40 mph and up slightly. I have the 4 individual mufflers and I think that gives it a different pulse type feel in a high gear at lower speed that I should be when twisting the throttle aggressively. Now that I understand more about the royal star. I’m convinced it’s running correct.

 

 

Thanks you for giving me the idea of using higher gears correctly and not bogging it with heavy throttle at to low of speeds, unless I gain speed gradually.

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So we need to clarify a couple of things here.

 

The Royal Stars all have 2 overdrive gears, 4th and 5th, neither is meant for any sort of hard or aggressive accelerating.

 

If you are in say 5th gear tooling along at 55 MPH and want to pull out an pass someone and open up the throttle, it is going to bog down, shutter and lug the motor, all because the gearing is to high, if you gently roll on the throttle it will gently gain speed and RPM. The same will happen in 4th but to a much lesser degree.

 

If you have not done this, take the bike out and instead of clicking through all the gears and motoring down the road in 5th, stop in 3rd gear and get a feel for the performance the bike is capable of, then find a nice wide open stretch of road and while still in 3rd open the throttle up as fast as you like, if all is good with the carbs, air filter , plugs and other systems that will affect the performance, it should accelerate at a very nice rate. If that does not happen, then start looking at performance issues, noted in the previous post. If you are going along in 5th at 65 MPH and need to pass some one, click it down 2 gears and open her up, my 98 Tour Classic would do 85 in 3rd gear before hitting the rev limiter.

 

Keep us posted on what you find.

[M61A1MECH]

I came down to the conclusion that you are exactly right. I rode in third and it picks up impressively. I was Twisting the throttle in 4th and 5 th expecting a lot, at40 mph and up slightly. I have the 4 individual mufflers and I think that gives it a different pulse type feel in a high gear at lower speed that I should be when twisting the throttle aggressively. Now that I understand more about the royal star. I’m convinced it’s running correct.

 

 

Thanks you for giving me the idea of using higher gears correctly and not bogging it with heavy throttle at to low of speeds, unless I gain speed gradually.

 

Scott

 

Glad I could help, now the opposite is also true, if you are in 4th or 5th and dive in hot into a corner and expecting engine braking to come into play, it will not be there, again start looking for 3rd and then power out of the turn.

 

Thee V-4 is a very different animals, takes a while to get used to them.

 

Ride safe and often

[Scotts royal star classic]

Yes, I wanted to drive it like a twin, as it sounds cool. Now that Im use to it, I love it.... need to drive it with more rev,and all is good...thank you.....

 

 

 

 

QUOTE=M61A1MECH;1063382]Glad I could help, now the opposite is also true, if you are in 4th or 5th and dive in hot into a corner and expecting engine braking to come into play, it will not be there, again start looking for 3rd and then power out of the turn.

 

Thee V-4 is a very different animals, takes a while to get used to them.

 

Ride safe and often

[CaseyJ955]

Well exactly. I took the bait and Ventured a guess that it would be a V-4 just by the looks of the headlamps also.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?129167-Yamaha-Part-three/page2

 

post number 22

 

You and me both. All that hype over yet another V twin. When I saw the headlamps I knew we had a 1700 V4 coming our way.

[101ScreamingEagle502]

Hi guys. new to the community as i just purchased a 97 royal star tour classic. I have learned quite a bit so far from reading this forum. i too, was having the whole 4th and 5th fear misunderstanding. lol. was also trying to ride it like a v twin. i now know there is a huge difference. third IS the power gear. and the over drive gears are for those interstate rides, long distance rides. makes total sense considering they are TOURING bikes made for very long travels at comfortable rpm's for the engine. Now that i know what i know from this forum and you gents, i now expect my rides will be so much easier and less fight.lol.Thank the good lord i have only had her for two months now, dont suspect ive done any damage to her thus far. i have noticed some ticking coming from the exhaust though and right below the engine on the right side. taking her to the shop this week. needs new gaskets anyway. thanks a lot guys. saife rides and happy trails!