Ethanol vs non-ethanol fuel

[baylensman]

 

The above link is a longish youtube video. I watched a couple of vids by this same guy. Rear world testing (i.e. no inferred data from a lab)

HE also does a few on seafood and some other products

[Flyinfool]

His results were pretty close to right on. The efficiency should have been closer to 5% but he was still withing rounding distance. The simple fact is that ethanol has almost exactly half as many BTUs as gasoline. So you will have to put in more fuel to get the same HP output. That means that you throttle will have to be slightly more open for a given cruise speed.

 

As far as the carbon build up, I would expect the ethanol to have slightly less carbon build up but I doubt that it can be seen in his short test, as he noted.

 

Any time I have an option I buy non ethanol gas. The non ethanol gas will also give a slight boost at WOT.

[Condor]

Any time I have an option I buy non ethanol gas. The non ethanol gas will also give a slight boost at WOT.

 

Can you even find non-ethanol gas any longer???

[Argo]

You can search for stations that carry ethanol-free gas here: https://www.pure-gas.org/

 

Not always completely current, as I believe it relies a lot on individual reports, but better than nothing.

 

Argo

[baylensman]

I also like the way he showed of getting the ethanol out of gas. get a tanks with a bottom drain pour water into gas agitate let settle then drain off the water ethanol from the bottom of the tank. So take a 5 gallon bucket add 4 gallons of gas (16 quarts) add 8 quarts of water (approx 10% ) drain out 3 quarts of fluid(mixed ethanol and water from the bottom, pretty close to ethanol free.

 

Not practical for cars, but mowers and chain saws and the like?? Around here ethanol free gas is 2 to 3 times the price of pump gas, and technically illegal except for off road vehicles.

[cowpuc]

Can you even find non-ethanol gas any longer???

 

Probably a CommieFornia thing Jack. Around here in the AR15 land of Michigan, eth free gas is plentiful and common. It is a dollar more a gallon (right now our gas prices are hovering at 2.80 and eth free at the local is 3.90). I use to actually add alcohol in fuel for high compression motors, doing so made a HUGE difference in decreasing pre detination = worked AWESOME IMHO, sort of a positive side of eth I reckon = thinking from that adding eth may actually increase octane. I have also noticed a decrease in combustion chamber carbonization since the onslaught of the Fed mandate for eth usage.. I do know that the ill effects of the stuff on carb components is real but have found that as long as I keep em running and not let em sit for extended lengths of time that it helps in controlling rust from water gathering in the fuel and carbs gunking up. About the only time I now buy non-eth is at the end of the season for storage purposes but even then, start my bikes at least once month and let em warm to operating temp = wick em up to "lube" the main jets (and intice some adrenaline too) and let em know I love em..

[Kretz]

Here in BC most (all?) 87 octane regular gasoline has 10% Ethanol. Pumps are usually but not always marked "may contain up to 10% Ethanol"

Chevron 94 is available which is non-ethanol. (around 22c/L premium)

I'm also told that Costco 91 is non-ethanol too (around 12c/L premium)

[Flyinfool]

As mentioned in the vid, IF you remove the ethanol from your gas you will also have lowered its octane rating, The ethanol has an octane rating of about 100. If you are thinking of separating out the ethanol, I would start with a mid grade gas, then the octane will drop to about regular.

[RDawson]

3 stations here in town with ethanol free. It's all I run local but don't take the time to look for it on the road. I figure the ethanol can't hurt it too bad if it's only in the tank for a couple hours. I can tell a difference in the mileage and it runs smoother on the e-free.

[Condor]

Probably a CommieFornia thing Jack. Around here in the AR15 land of Michigan, eth free gas is plentiful and common. It is a dollar more a gallon (right now our gas prices are hovering at 2.80 and eth free at the local is 3.90). I use to actually add alcohol in fuel for high compression motors, doing so made a HUGE difference in decreasing pre detination = worked AWESOME IMHO, sort of a positive side of eth I reckon = thinking from that adding eth may actually increase octane. I have also noticed a decrease in combustion chamber carbonization since the onslaught of the Fed mandate for eth usage.. I do know that the ill effects of the stuff on carb components is real but have found that as long as I keep em running and not let em sit for extended lengths of time that it helps in controlling rust from water gathering in the fuel and carbs gunking up. About the only time I now buy non-eth is at the end of the season for storage purposes but even then, start my bikes at least once month and let em warm to operating temp = wick em up to "lube" the main jets (and intice some adrenaline too) and let em know I love em..

 

Only in Kommiefornication... Geesh!! We're paying right at $3.90/gal and it's 15% eth. There aren't any stations that pump non-eth left. I generally use Shell when touring and out of the state. The bike runs better and get's better gas mileage. My Nissan Titan's MPG has dropped 25% since they went to 15..... One thing to consider about the price of gas is this state has about 50% of the cost per gallon is taxes. So they tell us the eth gas is cheaper, and then they jack the taxes up.... I just noticed the LPG site that I use to fill the BBQ tanks has just dropped the cost per gal to $2.18... There's a lesson to be learned here. Drive less...BBQ more.... :-)

[CaseyJ955]

Here in the midwest it's not too difficult to find E-free fuel, there are still stations that serve it up and not to much additional cost. We still have 85 here in SD, almost always E-free and works great for small engines. Premium is also E-free at most stations, or at least many. On the road I also will use a little Ethanol if I have to because I know I will flush it out in time to get it home and park it.

 

The biggest problem with Ethanol is not so much that it has less energy than pure gasoline, but it's what happens to your carbs and fuel system if you leave that **** in there for any length of time. Definitely dont put Ethanol in your saw and then expect not to have to pull the carb in the spring. Same with bikes, ya may have to open up the carbs and scoop out the corn squeezings.

 

I just read in the news that in SD they are going to allow E15 sales year around. Nasty business that.

[Flyinfool]

Only in Kommiefornication... Geesh!! We're paying right at $3.90/gal and it's 15% eth. There aren't any stations that pump non-eth left. I generally use Shell when touring and out of the state. The bike runs better and get's better gas mileage. My Nissan Titan's MPG has dropped 25% since they went to 15..... One thing to consider about the price of gas is this state has about 50% of the cost per gallon is taxes. So they tell us the eth gas is cheaper, and then they jack the taxes up.... I just noticed the LPG site that I use to fill the BBQ tanks has just dropped the cost per gal to $2.18... There's a lesson to be learned here. Drive less...BBQ more.... :-)

 

Or is the lesson to convert your car to LPG so you can drive and BBQ at the same time.

If you pull the taxes out of the cost, eth gas is cheaper, but only because the govmnt is subsidizing the cost to offset the reduced fuel mileage to try to get it mainstream enough that there is no such thing as eth free. In reality if the govmnt was completely out of the picture the eth fuel would cost more than the eth free and no station would even carry it.

 

Every study that compared pollution per mile has shown that eth free is cleaner than eth gas. If you only look a ppm of the exhaust gas then the eth is cleaner, but that fails to consider the reduced fuel mileage that you get with eth so you are burning more per mile.

[Freebird]

About the only place to buy non-ethanol around here is at the marinas. None of those pumps are accessible except by boat or walking with a can from the parking lot. Not worth the effort. I did find one listed in Norwalk, OH but haven't checked it and probably won't. It's about a 30 minute drive and to me, not worth it to drive that far for gas.

[slowrollwv]

I also like the way he showed of getting the ethanol out of gas. get a tanks with a bottom drain pour water into gas agitate let settle then drain off the water ethanol from the bottom of the tank. So take a 5 gallon bucket add 4 gallons of gas (16 quarts) add 8 quarts of water (approx 10% ) drain out 3 quarts of fluid(mixed ethanol and water from the bottom, pretty close to ethanol free.

 

Not practical for cars, but mowers and chain saws and the like?? Around here ethanol free gas is 2 to 3 times the price of pump gas, and technically illegal except for off road vehicles.

 

 

How do you get 6 gal. in a 5 gal. bucket (4 gal. gas+ 2 gal water) Then drain 3 quarts of liquid out. What happens to the other 5 Quarts of water?

[djh3]

Far as I know, no where in USA is it illegal to sell non-eth fuel. You can buy leaded fuel for "non-highway_ use at race shops by the barrel, but not worth the hassle to store etc. The higher octane fuels typically have less alcohol. If you want Alcohol free marinas and airport. As Freebird said you have to drag a can and it can be aPIA. I use to run 110 low lead av gas in the Legends Car and my other racers in Oklahoma. Her was a bigger PIA to track the guy down to get can gas. I OK I knew the guy at the airport. But it does smell goooood.

[baylensman]

How do you get 6 gal. in a 5 gal. bucket (4 gal. gas+ 2 gal water) Then drain 3 quarts of liquid out. What happens to the other 5 Quarts of water?

Sorry i was doing the math on the fly from his Ml nu bears i thought i was wrong put post anyway. Kind of like putting on my shoes while my socks are stolen my lap LOL

[baylensman]

Far as I know, no where in USA is it illegal to sell non-eth fuel. You can buy leaded fuel for "non-highway_ use at race shops by the barrel, but not worth the hassle to store etc. The higher octane fuels typically have less alcohol. If you want Alcohol free marinas and airport. As Freebird said you have to drag a can and it can be aPIA. I use to run 110 low lead av gas in the Legends Car and my other racers in Oklahoma. Her was a bigger PIA to track the guy down to get can gas. I OK I knew the guy at the airport. But it does smell goooood.

OHHH can't you smell that smell!

 

I always liked that first s sniff at the drag strip near the CAM 2 pumps. Ah memories

[Marcarl]

I was going to leave this thread alone, seeing as I don't have much time to discuss tires and oils and the like, unless it involves me, and then I might become interested. So I just became interested. Why? Because now I have a question and it's bugging me.

Question: What is wrong with me?

I rode an 85 for 8 years, never worried over the gas business, sometimes I did fill it up for the winter, but didn't always remember. Did the carbs on it at about the 6 year mark and found nothing wrong except for the dirt in it.

I have a chain saw that sees service when needed, and that might be every 2 or 3 years or so. When finished I just put it on the shelve until I need it again and then it starts the same as it always has, I might fill the tank and then again I might not.

I have a lawn mower, it just cuts it way through the grass every time as though I have babied it always. I haven't, it gets it proper service every year, but I've never worried over the fuel system.

I have a gas pressure washer, that gets used every 2 or 3 months, never a problem.

I've had my Spyder since 2014, only fuel injected unit I have, and never worried over the gas thing, so far it runs just fine.

Am I doing something wrong?

Oh! All units are stored frost free.

[slowrollwv]

Nope Carl there is nothing wrong with you. But that is just MY opinion. I do the same thing but mine are not stored frost free so I do add a little Seafoam to the tanks.

[Marcarl]

Nope Carl there is nothing wrong with you. But that is just MY opinion.

Glad it's just your opinion, hate to have a lot of others be wrong.

[RDawson]

The humidity here is high enough to quench your thirst in the summer, if you leave e-gas in a carb very long at all it will be nasty. All my small engines and bikes have e-free for that reason. I run canned fuel in my two strokes and have never had an issue since I started using it. Ethanol softens and destroys fuel lines on saws and weedeaters, the canned stuff doesn't. It's not cheap at $6 a quart but I only use a couple cans a year.