Alberta's Boreal Forest burning

[Patch]

Well over the last couple of days Calgary has been quickly filling with smoke. Last night late midnightish I was driving thru the city, struck by the shading from the street lights similar to what we sea in coastal fog conditions but without the highlight of light reflecting off water molecules...

 

Today here and according to the weather network Calgary is a 10+ on the air quality scale highlighted in red. I looked into the latest news on wildfires (Alberta Wild Fire Serv.)

something like 29 fires almost 500,000 (ha)

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD=bgcolor: #999999, colspan: 42]HISTORICAL DATA TO DATE[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 27][/TD]

[TD=colspan: 7]Total Fires[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 8]Total Area Burnt (ha)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 20]Forest Protection Area (Wildfire Data Only)[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 7, align: center]2019[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 7]522[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 8]497,648.10[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 7, align: center]5 Year Average[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 7]569[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 8]135,607.13[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 20]Mutual Aid[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 7, align: center]2019[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 7]9[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 8]381.77[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 7, align: center]5 Year Average[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 7]24[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 8]1,252.82[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

https://wildfire.alberta.ca/reports/sitrep.html the full sheet can be found here.

 

 

Don't know how many know this but 58% of Alberta is Boreal Forest. Calgary is a valley so yes we can get some odd weather currents, heat, cold, wet, dry and smoke can linger often causing activation of the Grumpy Switch;)

But more importantly what is going on? Can't we bring back or turn back time? No but not because the planet is becoming warmer more like because this all started long before man knew how to measure carbon (I've heard that we actually still can't measure atmospheric carbon content)and its global effects. I doubt that I am the only one among us to make this connection and I am not disputing science: as all the facts remain unknown so not tallied and that is best left to the scientist to argue through. After all that is what we pay them to do; offer us up reasonable explanations that will guide us not confuse us!

 

These fires will spread smoke well past territorial lines in the sands after all, Mother Nature knows no boundaries when she decides it time to school or remind us of her absolute rule.

 

The Boreal Forest need fire for balance, when we settle near or in them we get in the way. The thinking man becomes entwined reacting to his impulses on what he perceives as destruction instead of renewal -as - was and remains one of this planets intended life cycles long before man.

 

 

What if (changing the subject) we cap the volcanoes? Surely some among us can see a benefit to reduced ash, expansion of island displacing sea water raising shore levels, fire and the carnage left by the lava flows. So does plugging the vents make sense?

 

How about rivers? Can we loop them maybe not entirely cutting out their flows into the Our Oceans we could at least reduce their contributions to rising Sea levels?

 

Maybe some good global work projects could come from such Man over Mother Nature decisions? Of course we would need to form Global committees, we would have to keep Mother off the Committee Board of Directors cause as we know She's set in Her ways;)

 

Looking into these fires I found this below. What gets me is that we claim to manage our forestry yet, we as in man panic under management leadership when their mismanagement of our forestry catches fire and then;;; management becomes the first voice out of the gate to lay blame at Mans feet - under the title of Man Made Global Warming!

 

Man is as man does, so it is in all respects the fault of Man, seriously? Is electric cars mans best answer? What is the point of study if all we can do or come up with is Global Warming caused by man...?

 

If you believe in the Good Book then there must be a grand plan and a way ahead? If you believe in Science then we must believe that man is working to develop a path forward better than the patch we've been on, as it relates to our partnership with Mother Nature.

 

Not sure if you folks read this as a rant or a means to a discussion; but I do hope that we collectively can bring objective debate to this tendency of man blaming man without factual representation.

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/forests/boreal/17394

 

6. The boreal forest isn’t “ancient” wildernessCanada’s boreal forest is often portrayed as one vast tract of ancient, pristine wilderness but this isn’t the case. Although the boreal region itself is ancient, the boreal forest:

 

• is made up mostly of trees that are relatively young compared with many that grow in more temperate climates
  
• is regularly affected by forest fire, insects and other natural disturbances
  
• continually renews itself through these natural disturbances
  

Read more: “Is Canada's boreal forest ancient? ”

7. Forest fires, insects and diseases help the boreal forest

 

The boreal forest needs natural disturbances such as forest fires and outbreaks of insects and disease. These disturbances:

 

• remove aged trees from the forest
  
• expose the land to sunlight again
  
• allow the next group of trees to germinate and grow into a new forest
  
• release nutrients from the trees
  

Learn more about natural disturbances in our forests.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Patch

[Sylvester]

Look at the logic of California officials that have prohibited the removal of tree debris because it is natural. the result in some opinions is the huge wild fires that plague the state.

 

[slowrollwv]

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting.

[slowrollwv]

Look at the logic of California officials that have prohibited the removal of tree debris because it is natural. the result in some opinions is the huge wild fires that plague the state.

 

 

Jim I am not quite sure that your statement is true. My oldest son has been in Redding since Dec. cleaning up after the fires there. Now he and my other son are just out side Sacramento doing tree clean up there and will be there till the middle of Sept.

[Sylvester]

Yes they are cleaning up AFTER the fires. If they had harvested the sick and deseased trees before the fires there would be much less tinder to ignite.

 

Just my opinion and .

 

[slowrollwv]

Yes they are cleaning up AFTER the fires. If they had harvested the sick and deseased trees before the fires there would be much less tinder to ignite.

 

Just my opinion and .

 

 

Sorry Jim I misunderstood your first post. Yes if they would thin out the forest they could make them a little easier to fight the fires when they start.

[Marcarl]

So when you post some thoughts as you have, it tends to set the mind to thinking, and that in turn sets the fingers to typing,,, kind of like Mother Nature. So just to add to the thought lines: What did the natives do 200 years ago when a forest fire became a reality. Or were there no forest fires then. They didn't have the wherewithall to fight such fires, I'm wondering whether they could even run from such a happening. So how did they deal with a forest fire? and how did those fires burn themseleves out?

[Sylvester]

Forest fires have been around since the last Ice age at least. The original bipod man just had to run, hide or head to the cave for safety. All fires will eventually burn out or rain will drown it. The difference is that humans are smart (?) and feel they can control nature. My only has hope of lessening the outcome.

 

[Kretz]

So when you post some thoughts as you have, it tends to set the mind to thinking, and that in turn sets the fingers to typing,,, kind of like Mother Nature. So just to add to the thought lines: What did the natives do 200 years ago when a forest fire became a reality. Or were there no forest fires then. They didn't have the wherewithall to fight such fires, I'm wondering whether they could even run from such a happening. So how did they deal with a forest fire? and how did those fires burn themseleves out?

 

Forest fires will ALWAYS burn themselves out when they run out of fuel, wind direction changes, rainstorms put them out. 200 years ago is not even a drop in the ocean of time, as for what did they do... they got the f**k out of there or they died. Simple as that.

If one looks at the "history" of the word we can see that the earth has been through many heating & cooling cycles over millions of years.

Man is very arrogant to think that he can control nature. Carbon taxes & all the other silliness to "stop global warming" are a crock thought up by ignorant humans! Mostly politicians & those with a vested interest in &

I recall reading somewhere that it would only take a 1 degree shift in the earths axis for us ALL to become toast (or freeze to death) & there would be absolutely nothing we humans could do about it. Though environmentalists & politicians would be running around like headless chickens opining their "solutions".

[Patch]

So when you post some thoughts as you have, it tends to set the mind to thinking, and that in turn sets the fingers to typing,,, kind of like Mother Nature. So just to add to the thought lines: What did the natives do 200 years ago when a forest fire became a reality. Or were there no forest fires then. They didn't have the wherewithall to fight such fires, I'm wondering whether they could even run from such a happening. So how did they deal with a forest fire? and how did those fires burn themseleves out?

 

 

My thinking has been that they unlike Western EU settlers lived with the lands, not simply on the land.

[Sylvester]

You would hope so, but if the fire came they were leaving in a hurry. The natives had a relationship with the earth but so do many modern people. We can only try our best to survive catastrophe. The midwest storms and tornadoes point this out. Run, hide or head for the caves.

 

[slowrollwv]

If you all can remember a few years ago the mid west was in one of the worst droughts of this century. Now they are having record breaking floods.

[Sailor]

Two things...

 

1) I have to laugh about all the bumph about the noble savages caring for nature. In a heavy forest the undergrowth that animals rely on dies out. In order to bring the animals back so they could hunt them for food the natives would set forest fires, choosing a time when the wind direction was in their favour. This brought back the undergrowth and the animals. Here in BC the natives warred with each other. They killed others and took slaves. If winter was harsh they would occasionally kill and eat a slave or two. Noble indeed.

 

2) I read an experiment where they set controlled fires. They found that the debris on the Forrest floor was the major contributor to Forrest fires and made them more intense.

In an area where the debris had been cleared out the fire was considerably reduced. In an area where the debris had been cleared and the trees thinned out the fire stopped.

[Kretz]

Two things...

 

1) I have to laugh about all the bumph about the noble savages caring for nature. In a heavy forest the undergrowth that animals rely on dies out. In order to bring the animals back so they could hunt them for food the natives would set forest fires, choosing a time when the wind direction was in their favour. This brought back the undergrowth and the animals. Here in BC the natives warred with each other. They killed others and took slaves. If winter was harsh they would occasionally kill and eat a slave or two. Noble indeed.

 

Oh Yeah!!!!! But we're not allowed to say things like that are we? It's not PC & our PM will have to apologize & beg their forgivness!!!

They were also mostly farmers & fishermen (sorry.... fisherpeople )

[Marcarl]

I'm surprised nothing has been said about other habits that were used some years ago, like what did some tribes do to other tribes and what happened with the left over women, I don't suppose there was any traumatizing involved.

[Sylvester]

Humans left on their own are savage and barbaric. A quick look around the world today and the last 5,000 years will proove this. If it wasn't for man's making laws and enforcing them, what control would there be. Even then there are ruthless people who would use the law against the population. Gengis Kahn, Idi Amin, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, ISIS, Taliban...the list is endless.

 

I am sure my parents worried for the future of there family and I worry the same. No morals.

 

[Patch]

Yes I agree man has not always showed honor when viewed thru the eyes of history; but that applies to all mankind in my opinion.

Honor sets example for the next time, it is in my mind the core root to judgement then levied against a people and is again my opinion how history weighs any cost attached to a judgement.

Agreements and treaties need to be respected as the best compromise available at the time of signing. There should be room for change though; when any one people is overly suppressed thru treaty or judgement the cycle just flares again. Could we use the treaty of Versailes as an example... ?

Second guessing what our forefathers could of should of if only would of is in fact the price we pay today, and is what I taught my boys "make right your wrongs".

 

Anyways think we've strayed off topic and you know Dad is goin to kick down the door and make us sleep on the porch, again):

Edited June 3, 2019 by Patch

[Sylvester]

I agree and support your thought process. I don't think dad is going to come down. Nothing political or demeaning...just history.

 

[Sylvester]

OK how is the fire going. Hope the air quality has improved. I am hopeful it will be over soon. Here in NC we have fires and the smoke could come from 100 miles away. Right now we are in a tinder box and outdoor fire is banned. Haven't seen rain for a month and 90 degree temps.

 

[Kretz]

OK how is the fire going. Hope the air quality has improved. I am hopeful it will be over soon. Here in NC we have fires and the smoke could come from 100 miles away. Right now we are in a tinder box and outdoor fire is banned. Haven't seen rain for a month and 90 degree temps.

 

 

Unlike around here where our idiots ban garden fires in pits, cages etc but allow campfires at camping spots in the forest .... Sometimes I despair!

We currently have over 30 wildfires burning in BC 28 we are told are human caused. I see morons flipping cigaretts out of car windows almost daily!

[Sylvester]

Tough to control fires when that is all going on. Sorry. But even here they don't adhere to the burning ban. Last weekend I called:farmer: the fire marshall because some nimwit decided to burn tree branches. When I came back down the road the fire was out and the tanker truck was just leaving. Hope they got a summons.

[Patch]

Using my word pro for this post, sorry about the OP, I had visitors drop by while writing it and didn’t proof before posting…

 

Whatever the sudden need for X’s and the boys popping in over the weekend was, it was nice to catch up. My youngest expressed his opinion on global warming late Saturday night. I was struck by his comments and darkness over this issue/topic!

So surprise these words leaped off my tongue “ have your really lost faith in your fellow man Jake”

Jake’s view expressed as in the next 30 years struck hard! Personally I cannot see any point to my being around them years down the road but, to hear such from youth disturbs me deeply!

 

Where is our “Can Do” attitude? We have accomplished so much over the last millennium how is it that we allow the doom preachers to ride shotgun over us?

I want to ask of these preachers of doom and gloom to show me the math, show me the graphs, explain when it all began, how I contributed too, and how can man correct our contributions to what the real knit to this warming cycle is.

 

Remember science facts: don’t eat eggs, butter, oh and Bata Carotene; the earth was once covered in ice, then oceans, and prehistoric monsters, then came the meteors and at some point a great flood, none of were man made except when science got it wrong that is; and after pushing us to believe 1st then disbelieve. Bill Nye Talk to me like a thinking man or just evap, would rather you stop spreading fear through our grandchildren to get to us, man up or fork off.

 

Man throughout our existence has asked the 3 W’s and my opinion is that we need to ask at every opportunity for the facts and that they be spelled out and in order for us to consume and therefore reason over.

 

Really I think the only way forward is to understand the facts I’m too long in the tooth to listen to hysterics and propaganda.

 

 

 

OK how is the fire going. Hope the air quality has improved. I am hopeful it will be over soon. Here in NC we have fires and the smoke could come from 100 miles away. Right now we are in a tinder box and outdoor fire is banned. Haven't seen rain for a month and 90 degree temps.

 

 

 

A bit of a long article but worth the read. Here in Calgary things have improved but that just takes a shift in the wind. This is our common saying in these part: “if you don’t like the weather at the moment, just wait 10 minutes;))

In this article we see some man made mistakes so I expect change and will write our Premiers office looking for change. Every vote matters

 

https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/elise-stolte-alberta-needed-a-wake-up-call-to-take-climate-and-fire-risk-seriously

[Sailor]

Do not despair on humanity. The common person is good. I travel a lot and wherever I go I treat the local people and their customs and language with respect and I get respect in return. In one study I read that in a disaster, be it a traffic accident, fire or whatever, more people run towards it to help than run away.

The main problem with the world is greed. Countries greedy for what other countries have or corporate greed destroying everything for bigger profits.

[cowpuc]

While not one to buy into the "mother nature" routine of science,, I do gotta admit that I am suspicious that, by design, someone had to have planned ahead for future forest fires.. I discovered this years ago while CTFW (on my HD Lowrider) out to Lake Tahoe to visit my Sister who was out fighting the forest fires that frequent our countries west coast. I was amazed to learn that forest fires can actually be beneficial to some plant life whose very existence depends on them.. Amazing what a person can learn if one just stops to smell the roses occasionally while out CTFW,, or in this case,, smell the smoke

 

[Chaharly]

One thing I noticed when riding through the black hills is that they collect a bunch of the fallen debris from the trees and then put them in huge piles throughout the forest. Sort of like in this page here https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/Burn-permits-open-in-the-Black-Hills--407349905.html

 

That's all fine and dandy, but the week I was out there they just stayed put. No one was burning them, they just sat there. Hell even the shape of them seems to be designed to START forest fires and not prevent them.