Newbie Here. Just picked up a 89 VR 1300 and having some issues

[rkdrmr1]

Hi there,

 

I recently purchased a beautiful VR for next to nothing with 33K on the ODO. It had been sitting for awhile due to it needing a starter clutch, (sounded like crushing rocks), which I have had experience in replacing so, no big deal. Once I replaced the SC I then had to replace the battery. I then drained and replaced the old gas as well as added some Sea Foam. With that I turned the key, pulled the choke, hit the start button, and she fired right up. There were cheers all around!!! Here comes my issue and I'm sure it is very common; It idles great with full choke. I can even give it some throttle and it will rev slightly before wanting to die. I know this all leads to cracking the carbs open and cleaning out the gunk. When looking into the carbs, they don't look like a bit of fun to me. So, has anyone had any luck in getting the carbs to clear themselves without having to break into them? I understand that this is probably a long shot but, I thought it would not hurt to ask. I do have many years wrenching on various types of bikes but I have to be honest, the carburetor configuration on this particular machine is a little intimidating.

 

Any help would be appreciated,

 

Thanks!

[Condor]

I had the same issue with an '83VR that had sat for 3 years out in the weather. I ran a whole can of Sea Foam in a full tank of fresh gas and let it idle for a couple of hours. Maybe burp the throttle every once in a while... At first it ran sorta crappy but little by little it started running smoother. Ran it around the block a few times, sync'd the carbs and she was awesome.... Took it for a 50mi run and then sold it 'cause I already had one.... :-)

 

Just had another thought. Check the diaphrams for holes. They are easy to get to underneath the side covers on each carb. If they leak your not going to get fuel to the motor under acceleration...

 

http://cast-aways.com/CONDORPICS/DOUBLEVRs1.jpg

Edited April 24, 2019 by Condor

[bongobobny]

Besides what Jack just told you, which is very good information, there is also a method of cleaning the carbs without removing them called the "Shotgun" method. Try doing a search here on the shotgun method or go to the VMax forums and search there. Never did it myself but everyone that has done this method has had great success.

 

These carbs on our bikes are very complex with several "circuits" involved with their operation. They also have to be periodically synced to each other for proper operation. The proper procedure is found here on this site, just do a little searching.

 

If you find that you do have to completely rebuild the carbs there is an excellent video out there done by a gentleman known as Damon_Ferraiuolo@msn.com that is actually for VMax carbs but other than different jet sizes they are identical...

[cimmer]

I have "shotgunned" my carbs a couple of times and it is a good way to clear up some of the circuits in the carbs. Do a search here or on the internet as it is a common practice for these bikes and the Vmax. Seafoam works wonders also and I have gotten into the habit of storing all my small engine gas with Seafoam added to it and all my engine start right up even after sitting for any length of time. I also store my VR with a full tank of nonethanol gas and seafoam added to it and my VR started right up this spring like I had just rode it yesterday.

Also a sync of the carbs is in order as they tend to need it every so often.

The other advise you received here is also important and checking the carb diaphrams for pin holes is fairly easy as you dont have to remove the carbs from the bike to do it. Just be mindful of the springs and how the diaphrams when in.

Hope that helps you.

 

Rick F.

[Patch]

Just glancing thru here but have to ask.... When you twist the throttle is your air box sealed? It will choke out if the air box isn't together!

[Vickersguy]

Ah, you must have gotten the blue one. The carbs look lots harder than they really are. The key to getting them apart and back together is just having an organized approach. Number or mark the carbs or do them one at a time. Take tons of pics on your cell phone when you take them apart, to help with the re-assembly. Remember to replace everything, so you don't have to go back again. The only thing I don't like about doing the carbs is getting the crankcase breather tube back on the air cleaner box.

[snyper316]

http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/shotgun.htm here you go good sir!!

[tz89]

You are getting good advice. Lots of things to try before pulling the rack.

 

Yes - check the airbox seal.

 

Yes - check all the exhaust pipes after a couple of minutes to see if any are cold.

 

Yes - run Seafoam.

 

Yes - check the diaphragms. In fact, you might as well order a set.

 

Yes - squirt a little carb cleaner in while you have the slide and needle out.

 

If you have a cold pipe, pull the cap off the mix screw. Count the turns in to the bottom, remove the screw, squirt in some carb cleaner, and reset the screw. If you forgot to count turns, set to about 1.75 turns out as I recall (might be off and there are other opinions).

 

Many think you should drain the bowls, flood with Seafoam, and let sit, but I have never done that.

 

Run some more Seafoam. Ride the bike hard.

 

At this point, if no success, get ready to pull and rebuild the carbs.

[rkdrmr1]

Thanks so much for all of the help fellas!!! I'm going to try the "Shotgun" method this weekend, time permitting. If it is nice outside, the wife will want to ride meaning, I won't have time to get to it.

 

Thanks again!!! I will let you all know how it goes.

[BlueSky]

I would also unscrew the spark plug caps from the wires and check them for resistance. The OE caps should be 9 to 10k ohms. If they have been replaced with NGK caps, they are probably 5k ohms. Look at the copper core wires. If they look green at all, clip a half inch or more off until you get to shiny copper wire and reinstall the caps. The wire might be corroded at the coil end too?

[rkdrmr1]

Hey fellas,

 

My apologies for the late response but, I just got around to doing the "shotgun" method over the weekend with no luck. The diaphragms/slides were severely seized up. I had to soak each one with carb cleaner and gently pry them loose. Once removed and cleaned, the diaphragms were in very good shape. Since THEY were seized, I figured I was in trouble, figuring the bowls, needles and seats were gunked up. It did fire right up though with the choke on. I did notice after several minutes that the two front cylinders exhausts were cold. I poured some fuel directly into the front carbs and the rpms increased and the exhaust were then hot. It was definitely firing on all four cylinders but, only with the addition of fuel.

 

One thing I did not realize that I just read here. I fired it up with the air-box off. Before pulling the carbs, would it be worth putting it back together and giving it another try?

 

Also, if I do have to pull the carbs, are there any good articles to look at? I do have the service manual for the bike but, it pretty much s*cks!!!

 

Thank you in advance for your continued support.

 

Brian

[Freebird]

I wouldn't even bother putting it back together. It won't ruin well with the air box removed but what you described is likely due to the jets being gummed up. I think your only option at this time is to tear the carbs down and clean them very well. Seafoam and other carb cleaners work well if there is any flow at all but it sounds like yours are beyond that point.

 

Here's a pretty good write-up but unfortunately, there are no pictures.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?54-Carb-Overhaul-on-1st-Gen

[bongobobny]

Invest the $14 in the Damon Ferraiuolo video I mentioned earlier, it covers everything in great detail and even explains the theory and how to set them up properly!

[Patch]

Yep no joy with the air box open.

I would suggest a kit for each. Often the plugs and gaskets are overlooked, I don't think that a good idea.

Change the old stuff that deteriorates and be done with it.

Pay close attention to the float set and for smooth operation, take your time.

Don't forget to bench sync them, this save wet lumpy 1st starts.

 

Patch

[cowpuc]

Not being much of SeaFoam man myself, this is where I always go precluding a complete teardown and rebuild of the carbs and have found some fairly good success with it. Given,, its an original Puc Plan so you might wanna take it with a grain of salt so to speak

I would pull the diaphram covers on the carbs, remove the slides, open the drains on the carb bowls, push carb cleaner into each carb with a syringe filled with carb cleaner (spray carb or brake cleaner from any Auto Store = I have used Chem Clean too but you REALLY got to stay on top of that stuff cause it will eat rubber seals if left in the bowls for too long) until the cleaner flows from the metering rod emulsion tubes, shut the drains for a day or so and let em soak. Rehook the syringe, open the drains, pull the cleaner from the bowls one at a time, redo until the cleaner flowed clean back into the syringe, when its clean - refill the bowls with good clean fresh fuel pushed into the bowls with the syringe and pushed in so it too flows a little from the emulsion tubes. Slip the diaphrams/slides back in and hit the starter - no choke - to see if she fires off the fuel in the throats of the carbs. If it does and burns off the fuel, choke it and see if it will stay running.

I would do all of this BEFORE rebuilding the carbs in attempt to assess the bikes condition before I put a bunch of time and effort and $ into carb rebuilds = I dont like surprises... Make sense?

[cowpuc]

Just glancing thru here but have to ask.... When you twist the throttle is your air box sealed? It will choke out if the air box isn't together!

 

 

,, wouldnt an open air box cause it to run lean Patch.. It seems like closing or having a plugged airbox (like throwing a rag over the intake) would cause it to choke out = get to much fuel

[Patch]

,, wouldnt an open air box cause it to run lean Patch.. It seems like closing or having a plugged airbox (like throwing a rag over the intake) would cause it to choke out = get to much fuel

 

 

Listen Sweetheart, don't make me school ya in front of the kids!

 

Seeing as you is in the mood.... What would twisting throttle without stumble/choking be a sign of... ifen the CV carb box was open?

[cowpuc]

Listen Sweetheart, don't make me school ya in front of the kids!

 

Seeing as you is in the mood.... What would twisting throttle without stumble/choking be a sign of... ifen the CV carb box was open?

 

A lean out bog? I just never heard of opening up an air box to create a choking or fatter or heavier fuel/air mixture = that just plays backwards in my untrained gray matter:missingtooth:.. Under normal circumstances, if an engine that I am working on is flooded (another name for being choked out), the first thing I do is remove the air box cover to get it as much air as possible then hold the throttle plates open to add in as much more air as possible into the combustion chamber and then crank er up and let er clean out from being choked out/flooded. I probably been doing that all wrong thru the years but it has worked ok..

[Patch]

A lean out bog? I just never heard of opening up an air box to create a choking or fatter or heavier fuel/air mixture = that just plays backwards in my untrained gray matter:missingtooth:.. Under normal circumstances, if an engine that I am working on is flooded (another name for being choked out), the first thing I do is remove the air box cover to get it as much air as possible then hold the throttle plates open to add in as much more air as possible into the combustion chamber and then crank er up and let er clean out from being choked out/flooded. I probably been doing that all wrong thru the years but it has worked ok..

 

Not sure we are talking about the same things Puc? But at least we're talking LOL

 

Sure if you want to evap the carbs, open it all up...

 

But you know that we can't throttle these carbs with the box lid off so, you must be trying to get me to throw the frying pan at you again?

 

Now for those that don't know, if you can throttle without the air box in order then there is an underlying problem, cause the air flows, streams and venturi's are out of balance; the top end and the bottom end of each are contradicting each other positions. Constant Velocity

[cowpuc]

Not sure we are talking about the same things Puc? But at least we're talking LOL

 

Sure if you want to evap the carbs, open it all up...

 

But you know that we can't throttle these carbs with the box lid off so, you must be trying to get me to throw the frying pan at you again?

 

Now for those that don't know, if you can throttle without the air box in order then there is an underlying problem, cause the air flows, streams and venturi's are out of balance; the top end and the bottom end of each are contradicting each other positions. Constant Velocity

 

Ok,, back to schooling me here teacher Patch,, lets see, help me out here a little and bear with my students unknowing but wanting to learn brain. Is it your understanding that internal bottom end (crank case = bottom end, is this correct?) below the piston variances in vacuum and pressure changes developed by piston movement are directly effecting the vacuum operation of the CV Carb/intake system located in the top end (area of operation above the piston, including the intake/combustion/exhaust systems?)? Am I on the right track here in keeping up with your class?

[cowpuc]

Not sure we are talking about the same things Puc? But at least we're talking LOL

 

Sure if you want to evap the carbs, open it all up...

 

But you know that we can't throttle these carbs with the box lid off so, you must be trying to get me to throw the frying pan at you again?

 

Now for those that don't know, if you can throttle without the air box in order then there is an underlying problem, cause the air flows, streams and venturi's are out of balance; the top end and the bottom end of each are contradicting each other positions. Constant Velocity

 

Actually,, truth be known,, all my V-4's - if running close to properly, would/will throttle up just fine with the air box wide open,, have done it many many times. They do tend to high idle because of running leaner without the restriction (choking) of a closed air box = YES but they all throttled up just fine. Matter of fact, I have found that running them with no air box and while I throttle em up is a great way to check the consistency of the slide action and also a good way to see if the diaphram repairs I did are still holding = ripped diaphrams will show up in slow slide action easily viewable with the air box off..

Ahh ohhh,, :duck::duck::duck: flying frying pans are getting numerous

[Patch]

Ok,, back to schooling me here teacher Patch,, lets see, help me out here a little and bear with my students unknowing but wanting to learn brain. Is it your understanding that internal bottom end (crank case = bottom end, is this correct?) below the piston variances in vacuum and pressure changes developed by piston movement are directly effecting the vacuum operation of the CV Carb/intake system located in the top end (area of operation above the piston, including the intake/combustion/exhaust systems?)? Am I on the right track here in keeping up with your class?

 

Hmm how did we get to the crank?

 

Puc back in the days when a quad set was in need of rebuilding was a ticket that ran over a grand, first step was to measure compression; regardless of how a shop viewed those results or what it could cost to bring to standard, it was a waste of money to rebuild the carbs if the readings were at or below minimum values.

As far as the CV carb is concerned the importance of the results was ring condition or whether the results were valve related. Meaning you need an expect value off the intake stroke for the CV carb to perform.

1st hand experience is, when compression is very low then these carbs tend to allow operation tho slow, with the box apart.

 

That is no different then and when we would diagnose worn rings with a $5.00 vacuum gauge off the manifold.

 

I may be missing your point here but - at the bottom of the carbs the throttle position when wrenched open with an open air box will choke, as it should. Even if one were to baby it up to some rpm, what would be the point? It would not perform within a predictable performance or tunable condition.

 

Strip the box off and go to pods, well what has to happen to make them work and just to say they work a scale cause the air flows above are no longer tuned! And that's a whole other topic which we've covered before.

 

Patch;)

[uhfradarwill]

Cowpuc mentioned the rubber gaskets in his post.

From one noob to another, let me tell you I learned from my very clean 89 that no matter how good of shape your 30+ year old bike is in....

Everything made of rubber, and most every gasket, is suspect and is leaking or will leak soon.

[cowpuc]

Not sure we are talking about the same things Puc? But at least we're talking LOL

 

Sure if you want to evap the carbs, open it all up...

 

But you know that we can't throttle these carbs with the box lid off so, you must be trying to get me to throw the frying pan at you again?

 

Now for those that don't know, if you can throttle without the air box in order then there is an underlying problem, cause the air flows, streams and venturi's are out of balance; the top end and the bottom end of each are contradicting each other positions. Constant Velocity

 

Hmm how did we get to the crank?

 

Puc back in the days when a quad set was in need of rebuilding was a ticket that ran over a grand, first step was to measure compression; regardless of how a shop viewed those results or what it could cost to bring to standard, it was a waste of money to rebuild the carbs if the readings were at or below minimum values.

As far as the CV carb is concerned the importance of the results was ring condition or whether the results were valve related. Meaning you need an expect value off the intake stroke for the CV carb to perform.

1st hand experience is, when compression is very low then these carbs tend to allow operation tho slow, with the box apart.

 

That is no different then and when we would diagnose worn rings with a $5.00 vacuum gauge off the manifold.

 

I may be missing your point here but - at the bottom of the carbs the throttle position when wrenched open with an open air box will choke, as it should. Even if one were to baby it up to some rpm, what would be the point? It would not perform within a predictable performance or tunable condition.

 

Strip the box off and go to pods, well what has to happen to make them work and just to say they work a scale cause the air flows above are no longer tuned! And that's a whole other topic which we've covered before.

 

Patch;)

 

Hmm how did we get to the crank? = the top end and the bottom end..

It's probably due to the unlearned circles of gearheads I spent a lifetime running with Patch, since being a young gearhead I/we always referred to the crankcase and all it entails as "The Bottom End" and the components in an internal combustion engine above the crankcase as "The Top End". It sounds like you are referring to The Bottom End of a carb? My untrained ears have never heard carb components described in that fashion before if that is what your saying = hmmmm... Or, maybe you are referring to the closed position of the butterfly in the carb, the part that would be close off the carbs venturi when the carb is in idling status? Due to the butterfly being on a rotational axis I have always heard that described as open, opening, closed or closing as there is no top or bottom in the butterfly's relationship to the venturi area of the carb body that it operates in.

As a general rule of thumb in the gearhead world that I resided in, when referring to "choke" or "choking" I/we were costumarily referring to actually restricting airflow at the venturi opening - NOT the area below the main jet emulsion tube . On many carbs that I have dealt with, there would be another butterfly located near the entrance of the carbs venturi that was also on a rotational axis. Unlike the lower butterfly below the venturi that controlled air flow across the emulsion tube to develop air/fuel mixing, this butterfly in a fully closed position would choke off (or restrict air flow above the emulsion tube) the intake and vacuum in the carb venturi would pull raw, unmixed air/fuel, fuel from the carbs bowls thru its circuitry to give the engine necessary over fuel for cold starting. I know this probably sounds crazy but I learned early on that leaving that butterfly closed to long could and often would leave the engine in a "flooded state" from over choking and opening the air box and holding the lower butterfly wide open while cranking the engine over to start it was often the only way I could get one of those over choked, over fueled engines to start. It made no difference whether the engine was with a fresh bore/piston/rings with freshly ground valve and up to maximum compression ratio's = if not operated correctly, the carb's "choke" could and often would perform as described above.

Tired, worn engines with compromised compression always seemed to display a different component in my world back in the days when I was spinning wrenches. The absence of compression (and vacuum) often showed up by almost complete loss of fueling (unless there was some form of an enrichner such as an accellerator pump) due to no air movement thru the venturi. As matter of fact, there were actually times when the loss of compression was due to an intake valve that I could actually hear/feel the air movement going backwards thru the carb = a "popping" sound. An exhaust valve having lost integrity would also "pop" but because of its location it was harder to hear. Either way though (piston rings or valve or head gasket), for me in my untrained status, compression loss created a completely different set of apparent issues than those of a faulty fuel system..

Hey Patch,, speaking about schooling me here, did you by any chance teach automotive professionally in years past? If so, did you ever have opinionated knot heads like me in one of your class rooms?

[cowpuc]

Cowpuc mentioned the rubber gaskets in his post.

From one noob to another, let me tell you I learned from my very clean 89 that no matter how good of shape your 30+ year old bike is in....

Everything made of rubber, and most every gasket, is suspect and is leaking or will leak soon.

 

Which,, if you dont mind a drippy, dirty, oil covered engine, can actually work in your favor cause you never have to change oil,,, you just keep adding it to keep the bottom end full and by the time its oil change time you have already swapped in new oil... I use to tell Tweeks that she had the best of care cause she was under Puc's Perverbial Progressive Oil Change - a REAL advantage if ya dont mind parking on cardboard or cleaning up oil spots on the pavement everywhere ya go