Noisy engine when hot in traffic

[ZOEYDOG]

My Star venture gets noisy when hot in slow traffic sounds like lifters but when riding noise goes away is this normal

[Rafterd]

My Harley does it too. Oil pressure goes to zero, but oil light doesn’t come on. In heavy traffic or long red lights, I kill the engine rather that let it sit and idle. Starts quick when traffic starts moving again. I’ve watched the guys at Sturgis

sit in traffic ideling and the bikes get so hot they start popping and banging and finally die. Saw one catch fire.

[cowpuc]

My Star venture gets noisy when hot in slow traffic sounds like lifters but when riding noise goes away is this normal

 

Yea it's typical for an air cooled V-Twin, especially the bigger cubed scoots as they get hot and oil thins IMHO.. I know that HD has been using the rear jug shut down controller for a good while now to keep things cooler.. I cant help but wonder if there would possibly be a way to open up the upper region of those fake loovers on the grill Zoey. If you look at your scoot you may notice that its just the bottom couple of loovers that actually pass air thru onto the riders feet. Do you see what I am talking about? Look above those loovers and think of the possibilty of opening those up for pass thru air. Then think about placing a couple cooling fans that could be activated to move air when sitting in high tempts and slow/stopped traffic..

Thoughts? Anyone?

[djh3]

I have thought about if a guy wanted to do something like that, us a computer case fan. Small, low voltage and should be easy to install. My question at hand is how dang hot can it be in Canada in March? Heck I was just in Montana and they still had 20" of snow on ground. I have on my Venture and V-twin during summer months ran thicker oil. If it takes 5qt run 4 of the 10w40 and 1 20w50.

[ZOEYDOG]

I have thought about if a guy wanted to do something like that, us a computer case fan. Small, low voltage and should be easy to install. My question at hand is how dang hot can it be in Canada in March? Heck I was just in Montana and they still had 20" of snow on ground. I have on my Venture and V-twin during summer months ran thicker oil. If it takes 5qt run 4 of the 10w40 and 1 20w50.

Not hot now but in the summer here in Manitoba we can be the hotspot in Canada. I have no problem with the heat on this machine was just curious on the louder engine noise in stop and go traffic in the hot days in summer

[cowpuc]

Not hot now but in the summer here in Manitoba we can be the hotspot in Canada. I have no problem with the heat on this machine was just curious on the louder engine noise in stop and go traffic in the hot days in summer

 

But as the engine heats up, the oil can thin and that can cause noise.. At least, that has my experience with oils and hot ambient temps or sitting in traffic. That is the main reason that I always switch over to a heavier weight oil when running desert tempts on my 1st Gen,, its also "by the book" and recommended to make the switch in oil weight like that by Mom Yam (maybe check your owners manual and see if the SVTC is the same?). Matter of fact, if I dont change over to the heavier weight, one of the first places that loss of lubrication quality shows up on the 1st Gens is notchy shifting.. IMHO, being an air cooled engine in your case, keeping the oil cooler by running air across the cooling fins when in slow or stopped traffic could help in your case,, maybe,, maybe not..

[ZOEYDOG]

But as the engine heats up, the oil can thin and that can cause noise.. At least, that has my experience with oils and hot ambient temps or sitting in traffic. That is the main reason that I always switch over to a heavier weight oil when running desert tempts on my 1st Gen,, its also "by the book" and recommended to make the switch in oil weight like that by Mom Yam (maybe check your owners manual and see if the SVTC is the same?). Matter of fact, if I dont change over to the heavier weight, one of the first places that loss of lubrication quality shows up on the 1st Gens is notchy shifting.. IMHO, being an air cooled engine in your case, keeping the oil cooler by running air across the cooling fins when in slow or stopped traffic could help in your case,, maybe,, maybe not..

I am using the 15 50 synthetic Yamalube

[cowpuc]

I am using the 15 50 synthetic Yamalube

 

If it were mine I would be tempted to do some testing, a simple junk yard auto radiator fan temporarily hung and wired in on the bike would be suffiecient. Carefully hang it so it doesnt damage anything on the scoot but facing between the jugs so it blows air across the area there. Then take it out to a parking lot during high ambients and run it till it makes noises, turn the fan on and see if letting the fan run air across the jugs helps. If it does, take a close look at doing something about mounting a set of fans into the lower fairing and opening those fax loovers to engine can cool and quiet..

[djh3]

There is a company called "love jugs". Basically a pair of small 12v fans they have built fancy brackets and you hang them off side and it blows air across cylinders. So Puc, what if a fellow used a PC fan on the oil cooler to pass more air across it?

[cowpuc]

There is a company called "love jugs". Basically a pair of small 12v fans they have built fancy brackets and you hang them off side and it blows air across cylinders. So Puc, what if a fellow used a PC fan on the oil cooler to pass more air across it?

 

Not sure Deej,, may be worth a try but (and this is just another opinion) I got a gut feeling that a small fan like found internally in a PC would just not be powerful enough to do much good.. They work great for moving air across the cooling fins associated with devices found in PC's but I just am not sure about use in this application and would make a good "TESTING" apparatus. The reason I suggested using a small cooling electric fan off the cooling system on a car is they are 12v, produce good air movement and could probably be found in a junk VERY reasonably dollar wise. As far as blowing across the oil cooler,, ohhh heck yea,, good idea! On the other hand though, and consider this another opinion PLEASE, I think across the fins of the jugs would be much more effecient in that the air would be removing heat directly from the source (combustion chambers) that are designed for heat dissapation instead of trying to cool the oil which would then be relied on to find its way under the pistons and across the jugs to cool them.. Perhaps both would be a good idea for desert temp riding? I know one thing,, I have seen my share of Air Cooled V-Twins shut down for cooling out there in never land and they is one of the reasons that I was when I watched Mom Yam do the roll out of her new Touring bike line at Americade,, I was SHOCKED..

[ChiefGunner]

Yea it's typical for an air cooled V-Twin, especially the bigger cubed scoots as they get hot and oil thins IMHO.. I know that HD has been using the rear jug shut down controller for a good while now to keep things cooler.. I cant help but wonder if there would possibly be a way to open up the upper region of those fake loovers on the grill Zoey. If you look at your scoot you may notice that its just the bottom couple of loovers that actually pass air thru onto the riders feet. Do you see what I am talking about? Look above those loovers and think of the possibilty of opening those up for pass thru air. Then think about placing a couple cooling fans that could be activated to move air when sitting in high tempts and slow/stopped traffic..

Thoughts? Anyone?

Your statement regarding “fake louvers” is incorrect Puc. As I’ve stated before, while the upper part is not as “flow through as the lower portion, there is a vent port along the inside edge of the whole length of those louvers which direct air in toward the front of the engine. I know this to be true not just because I own the bike, but because there was plenty of room for me to set led light strips for my XKGlow LED lighting.

while I agree they would’ve worked better to open it up, what you’ll find behind those areas of the front piece is the main fuse bank on the left side and the unified brake reservoir system on the right. There’s no flow through back in toward the bike from there because of the back panel things are mounted to.

i know HD made a set of fans that mounted in the engine area to blow heat away. I wonder if it’s possible to procure and modify those for use? Just an idea.

[ChiefGunner]

My Star venture gets noisy when hot in slow traffic sounds like lifters but when riding noise goes away is this normal

Not sure how many miles you have in your scoot there @ZOEYDOG , but I’ve run 15w-50 full synthetic since after my break in. I’ve noticed that the bike ran cooler after about 4K miles. Maybe less friction from wear in? This bike has a “shut off” that if left in idle for too long without movement it will shut the engine off to protect it. You won’t have to worry about the bike catching fire as someone here mentioned about an HD.

[cowpuc]

Your statement regarding “fake louvers” is incorrect Puc. As I’ve stated before, while the upper part is not as “flow through as the lower portion, there is a vent port along the inside edge of the whole length of those louvers which direct air in toward the front of the engine. I know this to be true not just because I own the bike, but because there was plenty of room for me to set led light strips for my XKGlow LED lighting.

while I agree they would’ve worked better to open it up, what you’ll find behind those areas of the front piece is the main fuse bank on the left side and the unified brake reservoir system on the right. There’s no flow through back in toward the bike from there because of the back panel things are mounted to.

i know HD made a set of fans that mounted in the engine area to blow heat away. I wonder if it’s possible to procure and modify those for use? Just an idea.

 

Oppssss, my bad Chief,, I had no idea Mom Yam had made changes to those lower fairings since we rode the bikes out at Sturgis,,, got my apologies Sir.. The SVTC's we rode out there before they were released to the public only had functional louvers on the very bottom of the louver sections = last couple of louvers to be exact. All upper louvers above the actual functional ones at the bottom that allow air to pass onto the riders feet were definitely non-functional cosmetic pieces with no air flow possible thru the lower fairing behind them - this was the same on both sides of the bike. Air movement above the actual functional louvers at the very bottom of the lowers that was designed to flow air into the area between the lower fairings was obviously dependent on the face of the fairing itself behind the fake louvers = the louvers themselves served no purpose in air flow for most of the lower fairings on both sides as they were designed to match (cosmetically) the lower funtional louvers and ran horizontally across the fairing housing that sat in = in order to assist in air flow toward the center of the bike they would have had to have been mounted vertically..

I had no idea that Mom Yam had changed that design before release and glad to hear she did Chief. You are correct, I do not own one of the new ones and wonder if you could provide some pics of the updated lowers on your SVTC that show their functionality. I am sure that our readers would LOVE to see what on earth we are even talking about:Bunny:.. If your not able to, I will take my camera with me next time I hit up the local Yam shop, take some pics (and maybe a short video) of the updated version of the bike like your talking about to explain the differences between the functional louvers like yours and what I saw at Sturgis..

[ChiefGunner]

Oppssss, my bad Chief,, I had no idea Mom Yam had made changes to those lower fairings since we rode the bikes out at Sturgis,,, got my apologies Sir.. The SVTC's we rode out there before they were released to the public only had functional louvers on the very bottom of the louver sections = last couple of louvers to be exact. All upper louvers above the actual functional ones at the bottom that allow air to pass onto the riders feet were definitely non-functional cosmetic pieces with no air flow possible thru the lower fairing behind them - this was the same on both sides of the bike. Air movement above the actual functional louvers at the very bottom of the lowers that was designed to flow air into the area between the lower fairings was obviously dependent on the face of the fairing itself behind the fake louvers = the louvers themselves served no purpose in air flow for most of the lower fairings on both sides as they were designed to match (cosmetically) the lower funtional louvers and ran horizontally across the fairing housing that sat in = in order to assist in air flow toward the center of the bike they would have had to have been mounted vertically..

I had no idea that Mom Yam had changed that design before release and glad to hear she did Chief. You are correct, I do not own one of the new ones and wonder if you could provide some pics of the updated lowers on your SVTC that show their functionality. I am sure that our readers would LOVE to see what on earth we are even talking about:Bunny:.. If your not able to, I will take my camera with me next time I hit up the local Yam shop, take some pics (and maybe a short video) of the updated version of the bike like your talking about to explain the differences between the functional louvers like yours and what I saw at Sturgis..

No problem cowpuc. Now mind you, it’s not completely unrestricted flow like the bottom is BUT the entire length of the inside edge toward the engine IS open. The air scooped up by those ducts would be channeled inward. I’ll have to take a specific pic showing what I’m talking about but this should help you see it a little bit.

in the pic you can see my LED light in the scoop. Where those are mounted is within that air channel I’m talking about.

Hopefully you can see where I mean. If you zoom in you can see the light shining into the louvers. Your right about the louvers not assisting air flow. They would have to be vertical to be functional that way. If you look at the back side behind the louvers, you’ll find that the back is sloped INWARD. In other words shallower toward the outside and deeper toward the inside. That design angle helps to channel the air inward towards the inner opening you see with the lights.

Edited April 5, 2019 by ChiefGunner

[djh3]

Dont know if this is small enough. 6" is smallest I have found yet.

[ChiefGunner]

Dont know if this is small enough. 6" is smallest I have found yet.

Hey, that’s really nice Dion! Do you happen to know if it’s waterproof? Because the unit will be mounted low and up front to be functional with the oil cooler, it’s going to be subject to a lot of moisture.

Edited April 5, 2019 by ChiefGunner

[djh3]

I would say yes. Dunno didnt read the whole ad. But I would think so being it is supposed to be a radiator fan.

[ChiefGunner]

I would say yes. Dunno didnt read the whole ad. But I would think so being it is supposed to be a radiator fan.

Price is very reasonable! Wouldn’t be too hard to make a custom bracket for mounting. I guess the next question is, what do you wire it into for control? I can’t think of anything currently that would temperature activate it. Is it something that would be always on if the engine is running, or are you talking a remote switch for activation? I suppose you could mount a thermistor near the engine to possibly bring it in at a certain temp.

[cowpuc]

Your statement regarding “fake louvers” is incorrect Puc. As I’ve stated before, while the upper part is not as “flow through as the lower portion, there is a vent port along the inside edge of the whole length of those louvers which direct air in toward the front of the engine. I know this to be true not just because I own the bike, but because there was plenty of room for me to set led light strips for my XKGlow LED lighting.

while I agree they would’ve worked better to open it up, what you’ll find behind those areas of the front piece is the main fuse bank on the left side and the unified brake reservoir system on the right. There’s no flow through back in toward the bike from there because of the back panel things are mounted to.

i know HD made a set of fans that mounted in the engine area to blow heat away. I wonder if it’s possible to procure and modify those for use? Just an idea.

 

No problem cowpuc. Now mind you, it’s not completely unrestricted flow like the bottom is BUT the entire length of the inside edge toward the engine IS open. The air scooped up by those ducts would be channeled inward. I’ll have to take a specific pic showing what I’m talking about but this should help you see it a little bit.

in the pic you can see my LED light in the scoop. Where those are mounted is within that air channel I’m talking about.

https://i.postimg.cc/Pxx2f69j/1-F0-D4180-F9-B0-40-B2-8-BBD-9-ECFCD664-F25.jpg

Hopefully you can see where I mean. If you zoom in you can see the light shining into the louvers. Your right about the louvers not assisting air flow. They would have to be vertical to be functional that way. If you look at the back side behind the louvers, you’ll find that the back is sloped INWARD. In other words shallower toward the outside and deeper toward the inside. That design angle helps to channel the air inward towards the inner opening you see with the lights.

 

 

Thanks for the pic Chief! I will still grab a video and some pics down at the Yam shop next time I am down that way to help others reading this see where I was incorrect in calling those upper louvers fake and what changes Mom Yam did to those upper louvers and how she opened up the channel they control the air flow to make them functional like the lower 2 louvers on the bikes we rode in Sturgis.

For the time being though and looking at your scoot (NICE RIG BY THE WAY!!), on the original design only the bottom two louvers had a passage way that they controlled air flow thru - this making them actual functional usuable non-fake louvers. The section of lower fairing above those two louvers was permanently closed off behind the 6 fake louvers above the 2 functional ones at the bottom with no way possible for air to flow thru it and into the riders cabin like the lower two louvers controlled (I know it was like this cause I chatted with the tech's out in Sturgis about how I thought those fake inlets appeared to be the start of an air induction system for a big block V-Max engine and or radiator shrouds for the same:hihi: and that I was shocked that Mom Yam would close them off keeping the air flow from running across the air cooled engine). On the original design, air passing thru those non functional horizontal fake upper louvers was actually ricocheted off an interior backing plate on the inner lower fairing behind those upper louvers with the air flow being controlled by the angle of the backing plate behind the louvers and the louvers serving no purpose other than cosmetic appeal making them fake. Matter of fact, the upper fake louvers (not talking about yours in the pic Chief, talking about what I saw at Sturgis) on the original actually got in the way of air flow IMHO and could have actually been at least partially functional and non fake if they would have been mounted vertically so they would have at least been directing air flow into the open area behind the forks/front wheel. I pointed that out to the tech's out there and they totally agreed with me but felt the designers probably thought having the louvers mounted vertically for partial functionality and then those 2 lower non-fake louvers mounted horizontally would have looked weird..

At any rate,, thanks for a good starter pic Chief,, glad to hear Mom Yam made the changes to assist in air flow thru the upper part of those lower fairings = I commend her as dealing with an air cooled bike, the scoot really needs to be able to breathe and get as much air flow as possible IMHO. I will definitely get a vid together and posted up showing the improvements between pre-release and released to the consumer bikes..

[djh3]

I have a tendency to KISS. Keep it simple stupid. I would use a relay circuit with fused high side xraw. Find you a key on power to allow a switch to trip it on/off. If you dont have a place in fairing for a switch I can send a drawing of a small bracket I fabricate that works well.

[ChiefGunner]

Thanks for the pic Chief! I will still grab a video and some pics down at the Yam shop next time I am down that way to help others reading this see where I was incorrect in calling those upper louvers fake and what changes Mom Yam did to those upper louvers and how she opened up the channel they control the air flow to make them functional like the lower 2 louvers on the bikes we rode in Sturgis.

For the time being though and looking at your scoot (NICE RIG BY THE WAY!!), on the original design only the bottom two louvers had a passage way that they controlled air flow thru - this making them actual functional usuable non-fake louvers. The section of lower fairing above those two louvers was permanently closed off behind the 6 fake louvers above the 2 functional ones at the bottom with no way possible for air to flow thru it and into the riders cabin like the lower two louvers controlled (I know it was like this cause I chatted with the tech's out in Sturgis about how I thought those fake inlets appeared to be the start of an air induction system for a big block V-Max engine and or radiator shrouds for the same:hihi: and that I was shocked that Mom Yam would close them off keeping the air flow from running across the air cooled engine). On the original design, air passing thru those non functional horizontal fake upper louvers was actually ricocheted off an interior backing plate on the inner lower fairing behind those upper louvers with the air flow being controlled by the angle of the backing plate behind the louvers and the louvers serving no purpose other than cosmetic appeal making them fake. Matter of fact, the upper fake louvers (not talking about yours in the pic Chief, talking about what I saw at Sturgis) on the original actually got in the way of air flow IMHO and could have actually been at least partially functional and non fake if they would have been mounted vertically so they would have at least been directing air flow into the open area behind the forks/front wheel. I pointed that out to the tech's out there and they totally agreed with me but felt the designers probably thought having the louvers mounted vertically for partial functionality and then those 2 lower non-fake louvers mounted horizontally would have looked weird..

At any rate,, thanks for a good starter pic Chief,, glad to hear Mom Yam made the changes to assist in air flow thru the upper part of those lower fairings = I commend her as dealing with an air cooled bike, the scoot really needs to be able to breathe and get as much air flow as possible IMHO. I will definitely get a vid together and posted up showing the improvements between pre-release and released to the consumer bikes..

Don’t trouble yourself there Pucster. I can do that very easily owning the bike. I’m working in Atlanta right now, but I’ll be home this evening. Would like just video, pictures or both?? I’m more than happy to assist you!

[ChiefGunner]

I have a tendency to KISS. Keep it simple stupid. I would use a relay circuit with fused high side xraw. Find you a key on power to allow a switch to trip it on/off. If you dont have a place in fairing for a switch I can send a drawing of a small bracket I fabricate that works well.

There’s plenty of room behind the lower side panels to mount relays or circuit board for that matter. They’re pretty well protected back there. Maybe we should bring in Daryl (Machinist) to help us fabricate a bracket for the fame to mount the fan? I bought his last set of light brackets to mount driving lights on the forks and they are TOP NOTCH quality. The fairing dash has more than enough room to mount a manual switch or push button if that’s what you’re referring to.

Edited April 5, 2019 by ChiefGunner