The Home Stretch

[Vickersguy]

Thanks to many contributors and in particular, Cowpuc, I've gotten from torn apart to back together. Another '83 is saved from scrap and ready for the road again.

Now, the final part. The right front cylinder takes a bit longer to heat the exhaust flange beyond the touchable temp. The other three heat up quickly. With no tags and no helmet in this helmet state, I haven't gotten to really ride it yet, but zipping up and down the street it seems OK. I might have a slight exhaust leak at the collector but nothing I can see. It takes a full two minutes to run evenly without the choke. It will not rev until this two minutes are up. Then all seems normal with a little less power than I remember, however it's just barely up to operational temps. The carbs are cleaned and synced. Pilot screws are all at two turns out. ( I'm going to give the right front carb another 1/2 turn. ) So my question is... I have the colortune plug. The "Bunsen blue" range seems to be from 1 1/2 turns to 3 1/4 turns on the pilot air screws. This is way too wide for me. I compromised with 2 turns and may go 2 1/2. I have no access to EGA equipment so I'm thinking I'm reduced to checking the plug condition for the proper medium tan color. Any quick ideas on how to chase the pilot air screw to a good setting or am I already there for all intents and purposes...

[cowpuc]

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW :178::178::178:Vick,, she is GORGEOUS :178::178:!! Truly a job very well done there brother!!!! :thumbsup:

 

Couple things on the tune,,, if you havent done so and are using old plug wires, I would unscrew the plug caps, clip a 1/4 inch off the end of each wire to be sure I had mitigated any chance of resistance,, then I would Ohm out (check resistance) the caps.. Also check for any form of carbon tracking. I would also make sure that I had a good, OEM air filter in the box and that the cover fit well. While there I would take a long screw driver and, without having to take the diaphram covers back off, carefully slide the slides to make sure nothing is hangin up there. Understanding that these puppies really do not take throttle well until warmed to operating temp, I would refrain from spit/finger testing at this point and use a Laser Temp Taker (cheap at HF,, think I paid 15 bucks for mine and it works awesome) to "shoot" each header as the bike warmed starting right at first start and all the way up to op temp, getting a really good handle on whether or not all are hitting. I would also pay special attention to typical warm up exhaust "steam/smoke" so I knew I was dealing with pipes that were not plugged with mice nests. If she is coming up on all four on choke and the temp verifies it and they are all staying pretty close all the way to op temp, then I would give her a really good rump of 15 or 20 miles and see if we smiled at each other after that:big-grin-emoticon:.. Give er a chance to settle in some after being rescued and now in the hands of the Master Builder,, which you obviously are brother!!!

On the Color Tune, I would dial em all in to that purdy blue flame range and run it. Maybe revisit the Color Tune after ya get some miles on it and see if its changed. Word of note though, if you end up clipping the plug wires a tad and Ohming old caps,, you might wanna recheck the Color Tune cause even the slightest resistance on those caps can cause some serious funk in the combustion chamber..

Hope this helps,, GLAD YOU GOT HER ON HER FEET BROTHER!

Just GORGEOUS!!:bowdown::bowdown: YOU DA MAN VICK!!!!!!

Puc

[BlueSky]

I know you said the carbs are clean, but I would still put a good dose of seafoam or my favorite Gumout for high mileage engines with PEA in the gas tank and run it through. Like Puc said the copper spark plug wires tend to corrode and by clipping the ends off you can usually get to some clean, not green copper wire. Makes a huge difference if they are corroded on the ends.

[bongobobny]

...and don't forget to peek at the coil ends while you are doing that for the dreaded green tip disease! You can also invest about $15 into a spark tester at Auto Zone, etc. You should be able to pull at least 0.100" spark from each coil, the factory spec is 0.109" if I remember correctly...

[Vickersguy]

I went to do a check of the right front cylinder plug wire, went to pull it off the plug and found it was sitting on the plug, but not seated. Well over an 1/8 inch off actually touching the connector on the plug. Maybe that had something to do with the failure to warm up like the others, huh ? Sloppy of me, that bit. I'll jump on her for a ride and see if it isn't all better now... It's clear to me new caps and wires would be a good idea anyway. They're probably originals.

[cowpuc]

I went to do a check of the right front cylinder plug wire, went to pull it off the plug and found it was sitting on the plug, but not seated. Well over an 1/8 inch off actually touching the connector on the plug. Maybe that had something to do with the failure to warm up like the others, huh ? Sloppy of me, that bit. I'll jump on her for a ride and see if it isn't all better now... It's clear to me new caps and wires would be a good idea anyway. They're probably originals.

 

GOOD ON YA VICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bowdown::bowdown:

 

Now be careful out there with that thang!! When a 1st Gen is hittin on all 4 and feelin its oats,,, they have a tendency to like to rare up on that back wheel when tickled... :guitarist 2::guitarist 2:

GREAT NEWS BROTHER!!!

[made2care]

Thanks to many contributors and in particular, Cowpuc, I've gotten from torn apart to back together. Another '83 is saved from scrap and ready for the road again.https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=115689https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=115690

Now, the final part. The right front cylinder takes a bit longer to heat the exhaust flange beyond the touchable temp. The other three heat up quickly. With no tags and no helmet in this helmet state, I haven't gotten to really ride it yet, but zipping up and down the street it seems OK. I might have a slight exhaust leak at the collector but nothing I can see. It takes a full two minutes to run evenly without the choke. It will not rev until this two minutes are up. Then all seems normal with a little less power than I remember, however it's just barely up to operational temps. The carbs are cleaned and synced. Pilot screws are all at two turns out. ( I'm going to give the right front carb another 1/2 turn. ) So my question is... I have the colortune plug. The "Bunsen blue" range seems to be from 1 1/2 turns to 3 1/4 turns on the pilot air screws. This is way too wide for me. I compromised with 2 turns and may go 2 1/2. I have no access to EGA equipment so I'm thinking I'm reduced to checking the plug condition for the proper medium tan color. Any quick ideas on how to chase the pilot air screw to a good setting or am I already there for all intents and purposes...

Beautiful bike. Will pick up same bike in a couple of weeks and restoration here I come.

[Vickersguy]

Thanks, but this is a ten foot restoration. Don't get too close ! LOL.

[Vickersguy]

OK, back from the ride. One mile. First impressions: Nice even heat on the pipes, have to check with an infrared heat sensor. Popping on deceleration. Annoying exhaust leak(s) where the rear pipes go into the collector/resonator. Also some leaks at the mufflers. The bike needs two or three minutes before it will run without the choke full on. I can't even blip the throttle without a stall. I'm used to just running the first mile with the choke on but being able to ride away, right away. Can't do that at all. It's been a few years since I've done much riding (14) but the bike seems like it's running weak. The power comes on soft and I was expecting a rheostat kind of power. A smooth increase directly proportional to the throttle position. It does not stumble, but boggs slightly and gradually catches up with the throttle. I was expecting more, umm,,, snap to it. It feels like a 60hp. motor not a 90hp. Maybe I'm being shy about twisting the grip but it's like the bike needs an accelerator pump on the carbs. Perhaps it's too lean a pilot screw setting ? I fixed the minor issues after the first 1/2 mile check, locked brakes and the leak in the coolant pump (split impeller). I don't have the copper pipe to do the cheap fix so I'll have to get the exhaust gaskets but there is still the mild throttle response. I'm thinking the performance issues have nothing to do with the exhaust leaks and much to do with the pilot screws. Or perhaps my expectations are out of line with the actual performance of the bike. Just to cover the bases, the valves are correctly adjusted, carbs are synced, hot fat spark on all cylinders. Thoughts from the crowd encouraged.

[luvmy40]

I doubt the throttle response is pilot circuit related, but I've been wrong before.

 

Too lean on the pilot circuit would tend to cause a stumble coming off idle until the main jet catches up with the increased air flow. Not really a slow, or soft acceleration. It also shouldn't have much effect when rolling on the throttle at higher RPMs.

 

You said the carbs are synched, but have they been properly cleaned and the diaphragms and jets inspected? Floats set? Have you done a compression test?

 

Sorry if you've answered these questions earlier, I didn't review the whole thread this morning.

[Vickersguy]

Sorry, didn't mention that, Carbs totally rebuilt with new diaphragms, all jets cleaned and checked. Floats/valves are good. Never did a compression check. It only has 31,800 miles. It idles even and quiet, aside from the pop pop pop of the exhaust leak.

[bongobobny]

OK, did you do a carb sync? This is a common cause for popping on deceleration, but exhaust leaks will also do it. One common source for exhaust leaks at the collector is not replacing those copper sleeves when the mufflers are removed. They are just like crush washers on brake lines, they should be replaced as once they are distorted they should be discarded.

 

As far as the richness, the ideal way to adjust is at each of the 4 exhaust plugs with a CO sniffer and you are looking for an ideal 5.1 reading. The other alternative is to use a color tune plug and adjust each cylinder for that nice Bunson burner blue color as I once heard it described...

[BlueSky]

Sounds like you are definitely down on hp. These bikes will give you a thrill when you go full throttle. I still think you need to pour a bottle of cleaner in the gas.

[cowpuc]

Stock airbox and stock air filter, both recently checked for any flaws that could alter factory air volume control induced by proper airbox/air filter dynamics = even little things like crankcase vent hose falling out of bottom of box can create lean conditions. Double check Vacuum lines associated with spark advance and also check intake boots for vacuum leaks. Also ohm out/check spark advance modual next to TCI.

[RDawson]

Have you checked fuel pump and filter? 1st gen pumps are pretty solid but my 86 wasn't pulling up to par when I first got it, chased it for a while pulling my hair out til the pump died. I installed a new pump and went on a test run. Eased around a couple miles to a stop sign and dropped the hammer pulling out. That's when I fell in love with the V4, wow.

[Vickersguy]

I took some short-cuts rebuilding the bike. Didn't do master/slave cylinder rebuilds, didn't check for vacuum leaks, didn't check the spark advance, didn't fix the exhaust leaks, didn't do a compression test, didn't even look at the collector/crossover chamber. It's coming back apart and I'll attend to the details I assumed would be ok to skip. I got my " heads up " warning when the left front and rear brake partly locked in the first 500 yard test drive.

( Turns eyes to the heavens and asks, " Am I to be spared NOTHING ? " ) All four cylinders are firing but the power is not there. I will find it. I had an '84 20 years ago and I remember it had some snap to it. That baby would get up and scoot. Maybe it was because it was Blue ?

Sad story about the blue '84. Sold it to my stepbrother who didn't like the heat off the motor and he sold it to a retired fire chief. It scared the fire chief and he parked it behind his barn in 2003. It's still there behind the barn. In the open, no cover. Nothing but scrap metal now.

[Vickersguy]

OK, didn't do much of a check before. Now I have a plate, insurance, and the state required helmet. Took the bike out for a real ride. I've got some work to do. First impressions, I forgot to top off the air in the rear tire. I think it has 32 psi. Not enough for good tracking on the rear. Front end is loose. It's the steering neck bearings. Not real bad, but at the head of the list to fix this fall. Bike is so down on power it can hardly get out of it's own way. Over the winter, I tested the spark by putting a spare plug in each cap and spinning the motor over. All good. Got back and checked the pipes out. Left muffler was noticeably cooler than the right one. Left front pipe was cooler than the right one. Pulled what must be the most burned up plug I've ever seen, out of the #2 cylinder. That's what the problem was. I've pulled all the plugs, 4.1K ohms, 3.9K ohms, 4.2K ohms, 17,000,000 ohms. Don't quite know how that plug actually fired that cylinder at all. It idles fine. New plugs should fix the power issue. Then there's the oil leak, a classic stator wire leak. I guess that's next on the fix list. Folks will think it's a Triumph.

Anyway, did the copper wire trick on the exhaust gaskets and it worked super ! Rebuilt the rear master cylinder. The clutch and front brake master cylinders will get rebuilt come winter. Compression is good. Will get into the vacuum advance if I'm still down on power with the new plugs but I'm thinking I won't be.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Vickersguy
posted before complete

[cowpuc]

OK, didn't do much of a check before. Now I have a plate, insurance, and the state required helmet. Took the bike out for a real ride. I've got some work to do. First impressions, I forgot to top off the air in the rear tire. I think it has 32 psi. Not enough for good tracking on the rear. Front end is loose. It's the steering neck bearings. Not real bad, but at the head of the list to fix this fall. Bike is so down on power it can hardly get out of it's own way. Over the winter, I tested the spark by putting a spare plug in each cap and spinning the motor over. All good. Got back and checked the pipes out. Left muffler was noticeably cooler than the right one. Left front pipe was cooler than the right one. Pulled what must be the most burned up plug I've ever seen, out of the #2 cylinder. That's what the problem was. I've pulled all the plugs, 4.1K ohms, 3.9K ohms, 4.2K ohms, 17,000,000 ohms. Don't quite know how that plug actually fired that cylinder at all. It idles fine. New plugs should fix the power issue. Then there's the oil leak, a classic stator wire leak. I guess that's next on the fix list. Folks will think it's a Triumph.

Anyway, did the copper wire trick on the exhaust gaskets and it worked super ! Rebuilt the rear master cylinder. The clutch and front brake master cylinders will get rebuilt come winter. Compression is good. Will get into the vacuum advance if I'm still down on power with the new plugs but I'm thinking I won't be.

 

Oh yea,, them lop eared little "D" plug varmints can be naughty thats a fact.. I have long since always amazed at how fast they can blacken if over choked and they really do not like being blackend.. I have also noticed how mine dont take kindly to gas additives like Sea Foam,,, a half a tank a gas with Foam in it and they get this sheen to their ceramics that has caused me issues too.. Tuned right, no Sea Foam and consistantly getting the choke off quickly and I have seen +20k on a set of plugs for the season.. A couple of over chokes (like forgetting to move the lever back to close the choke) and bingo,,, 5k and I got a fouler..

Sounds like ya got it happening Vick!! Hoping you and that fine running, front end loftin, Harley passin machine have a BLAST for the ride season thats peekin over the horizon at all us lop eared CTFW varmints!!

[Vickersguy]

Honest Puc, I've never seen a plug like that. The center electrode had a cut through it, a valley of sorts, most of the way across. About 1/3 of the side of the center electrode was blown off down to the ceramic. The other thing was that the cut part looked like welding slag in coloration and in texture, under a magnifying glass. It looked like someone tried to tig weld it and forgot to turn on the shielding gas. Anyway, it ohmed out as open, but it still fired at idle. ???? But not above, say, 1500 rpm. How does that work ?? Electrical weirdness, I'll say.

[cowpuc]

Honest Puc, I've never seen a plug like that. The center electrode had a cut through it, a valley of sorts, most of the way across. About 1/3 of the side of the center electrode was blown off down to the ceramic. The other thing was that the cut part looked like welding slag in coloration and in texture, under a magnifying glass. It looked like someone tried to tig weld it and forgot to turn on the shielding gas. Anyway, it ohmed out as open, but it still fired at idle. ???? But not above, say, 1500 rpm. How does that work ?? Electrical weirdness, I'll say.

 

Hearing ya brother and right there with ya,, have seen some crazy stuff like that thru the years too.. Had one a while ago I could not figure out,, all ohmed out perfect,, everything looked great.. Finally found I had carbon tracking on my plug caps causing very similar performance issues to what you are describing... That lectrical stuff can be very tricky to diagnose thats for sure!!

 

 

[Vickersguy]

That was it, now there's all kinds of power. Now the clutch seems to be slipping.

[bongobobny]

Clutch slipping?? First question, what kind of oil did you use when you last changed it?? Automobile oils are a no-no especially if they have any kind of friction modifiers in them. We have what is known as a "wet" clutch and any kind of friction modifiers WILL cause them to slip!!

 

That being said there is also the possibility your clutch is hammered. Also, on the MK1, Barnett makes some heavy duty springs to replace the stock ones which can weaken and cause slippage...

[cowpuc]

That was it, now there's all kinds of power. Now the clutch seems to be slipping.

 

YEEEEE HAWWW VICK:thumbsup:!! Ain't nuthin that pulls top to bottom like a little 74 inch ol 83 Venture hittin on 4 baby YEEEEE HAWWWW = open da gate and get out the way,, Vick and his Venture are comin outa chute 9 :bikersmilie:

 

Clutch eh,, read below...

 

Clutch slipping?? First question, what kind of oil did you use when you last changed it?? Automobile oils are a no-no especially if they have any kind of friction modifiers in them. We have what is known as a "wet" clutch and any kind of friction modifiers WILL cause them to slip!!

 

That being said there is also the possibility your clutch is hammered. Also, on the MK1, Barnett makes some heavy duty springs to replace the stock ones which can weaken and cause slippage...

 

:sign yeah that::sign yeah that::sign yeah that::sign yeah that::sign yeah that: BIG TIME:sign yeah that:

 

and after I verified that my scoots crankcase wasnt contaminated with Energy Conserving oil, I would pop the lid on the clutch res and make sure the tiny little bleed back/return hole at the bottom of the res was not plugged. Just watch it carefully as you release the squeeze on the clutch lever and make sure its flowing fluid back into the res.

Now that said, until we started riding our 6th 83 (Tweeksis - current bike) who's original owner put a complete Barnette clutch system in it, I never did have a good clutch that would hold solid in higher gears, fully loaded with two up, when the HP hit over 5000 R's.. I tried everything I could think of thru the years on the other 5 from dropping the 1/2 plate buffer plate in the bottom of the basket to shimming and even reloading with heavier springs.. I did do new plates a couple times too, they held for a short while but went right back to "normal" high HP slipping in a very short time.. IMHO, Mom Yam wayyyy underbuilt the clutch in our V-4's (should have an 8" clutch in it) and, and dont forget - this is just another opinion of mine, this may be why Mom Yam went with a diaphram clutch spring on the MK2 1st Gens..

Tweeksis's Barnette is a worthy piece, NEVER slips, holds ROCK SOLID right up thru when pulling hard on all 4 jugs fully loaded and two up.. The downfall of the Barnette setup, again IMHO, is that it moved the engagement spot on the perch from its normal, smooth, easy to feather 3/4 release spot out to a not so easy to feather (that little half plate had its function as a buffer and it really is noticable when its not part of the plate stack as designed by Mom Yam) engagement zone right at the end of the clutch throw.

You could try picking up some heavy duty pressure plate springs and installing them, I think Skydoc sells those.. I never did attempt a basket swap over to a MK2 diaphram spring system (1200cc V-Max's use em too I believe) cause all my 83's would whoop anything on the road even with the clutch slipping but that might be an option and it would be interesting to hear your input of such an endeavor if you tried it Vick..

There,, I managed to your ear off again didn't I brother

[Vickersguy]

I'm sure I have the wrong oil, Castrol GTX 20W-50. I just put it in for a short while, kind of a flush for two weeks of use, to clean out the debris. It really is awful in the trany. The bike shifts notchy and hard. I have some Rotella T-4 to try, with the MA rating, but it's 15W-40. I live in the boonies and will have to order some Castrol 20W-50 Activa motorcycle oil through Walmart. There is nothing available here in under a 55 mile round trip for motorcycle oil. There is no question the springs could be replaced. I really like the feel of the clutch engagement but I could get used to the "end of throw" situation if it comes to that. Right now, other than the oil change, I'm going to have to leave things as they are. The resources for chasing motorcycle mechanical issues have totally dried up. I have a great long list of stuff I'd like to do to this Concrete Blond, but they will have to wait. The only thing I'll pull the trigger on right now, if I see one, is an original, Gold uncracked left fairing lower that has great original paint. I hope to find a really nice left muffler. Mine has a 2 inch long rust bubble under the chrome that is on a weld seam. I've left it alone as I'm sure poking a screwdriver in it, it would be an instant hole. I have the stator wire oil leak. Both handlebar mounted master cylinders should be rebuilt. They work for now but need cleaning. The clutch slave cylinder is also on the rebuild/replace list. I need to bleed the rear/front brake again. The brake works but the throw on the pedal is huge. She's ready for local riding as is, with an oil change next week.

[cowpuc]

I'm sure I have the wrong oil, Castrol GTX 20W-50. I just put it in for a short while, kind of a flush for two weeks of use, to clean out the debris. It really is awful in the trany. The bike shifts notchy and hard. I have some Rotella T-4 to try, with the MA rating, but it's 15W-40. I live in the boonies and will have to order some Castrol 20W-50 Activa motorcycle oil through Walmart. There is nothing available here in under a 55 mile round trip for motorcycle oil. There is no question the springs could be replaced. I really like the feel of the clutch engagement but I could get used to the "end of throw" situation if it comes to that. Right now, other than the oil change, I'm going to have to leave things as they are. The resources for chasing motorcycle mechanical issues have totally dried up. I have a great long list of stuff I'd like to do to this Concrete Blond, but they will have to wait. The only thing I'll pull the trigger on right now, if I see one, is an original, Gold uncracked left fairing lower that has great original paint. I hope to find a really nice left muffler. Mine has a 2 inch long rust bubble under the chrome that is on a weld seam. I've left it alone as I'm sure poking a screwdriver in it, it would be an instant hole. I have the stator wire oil leak. Both handlebar mounted master cylinders should be rebuilt. They work for now but need cleaning. The clutch slave cylinder is also on the rebuild/replace list. I need to bleed the rear/front brake again. The brake works but the throw on the pedal is huge. She's ready for local riding as is, with an oil change next week.

 

Castrol GTX has been a mainstay in motorcycling for many years Vick, I know a LOT of HD riders that swear by the stuff and have used it for many years. I also know that our own YammerDan used to swear by the stuff for use in his V-4's as I recall,, he and I used to go round and round and round about me using junk oils and him :stickpoke: me about getting on the GTX bandwagon . There may be a high mileage/Energy Cons GTX out there though that would probably not be clutch friendly,,, do you remember what color of container the GTX you used came in? You got a Dollar Store near you? Personally I have been using cheap Dollar Store 20/50 in tempts above 80 degrees for long time now and using the notchy shifting you mention as an indicator of it being time to swap in some new oil.. Maybe its time to just do an oil change in your case?

As far as the rest of your scoots issues, that reads like a bike Tip and I would head west on and just add fluids as we CTFW on a 20k mile westward journey.. Sounds like the only thing missin in your case would be the stickers that hold the cracked plastic together so triple digits out across the open deserts for hours on end:hihi:.