please help, what would you do?

[BlueSky]

Just leave the fuel valve in the off position and spin it a bit on the starter would be my suggestion. Maybe for a few seconds several times to get oil to everything.

 

And as far as balancing the carbs, if the throttle plates are perfectly adjusted to be the same on the bench, then if you "balance" them while running you are adjusting for any differences in the fuel metering at idle. That may be different as the engine revs up. Seems to me?

[made2care]

Carbs arrive tomorrow! Man, I'm excited! I have been working on the saddlebags and trunk while waiting on carbs. I think i did mention this earlier and here i go again. My ignition key fits the saddlebags and works great. Ignition key does not fit trunk. I removed the trunk lock but cant find a code. Any suggestions in getting a key for this trunk?

Thanks guys.

 

Why did I think getting a key made would be a challenge? Took lock down to locksmith and in 2 min i had a key

Edited September 5, 2019 by made2care

[made2care]

I think I am going to remove the spark plugs, pour a little engine oil in and run the starter a few times to lube......just to be safe.

[BlueSky]

I think I am going to remove the spark plugs, pour a little engine oil in and run the starter a few times to lube......just to be safe.

 

That's a good idea but the cams are the most concerning parts that needs lube before running an engine that's been sitting.

[cowpuc]

That's a good idea but the cams are the most concerning parts that needs lube before running an engine that's been sitting.

 

:sign yeah that::sign yeah that: Sky!!! If it's got line-bored journals that the cam rides in instead of actual bearings this a VERY important IMHO.. I've rescued 100's of scoots that have sat unran for years and by doing exactly as Sky mentions here, never had a cam journal smudge and fail IF I opened em up and pre-lubed em.. Not sure on the Venture/V-Max V4 topend if this is the case but on a lot of lined bored topends (Honda 750's, XR's, Yamaha Inlines and so on) the cam journals are NOT oil supplied directly from the pump. There are small countersunk passages on the journals themselves that capture oil and bleed it into the journal. I have also restored/repaired top ends that the PO ignored doing this and I ended up with the bike, after the fact, with oblonged journals (LOTS of cam slop) = ruined head because of it.. Seen em bad enough that as soon as fired em up they would knock the points out of spec (Honda 350) and even one that came to me with a camshaft that had broken in half cause it siezed completely in the journals... Once that Aluminum saddle smudges from lack of lube its only a few spins from siezing..

GOOD POINT SKY,, IMHO of course..

[made2care]

So do I remove the valve covers and lube cams with oil? Not special lube?

Edited September 6, 2019 by made2care

[cowpuc]

So do I remove the valve covers and lube cams with oil? Not special lube?

 

Exactly but before I did that I would do some digging and determine whether the top end has line bored journals or if it has actual bearings. I would also check and see whether or not those journals (if it has them) are part of the oil pump system that the pump is actually delivering oil under pressure to.

What I have done in the past is pull valve adjustment covers and/or valve covers and squirt the same oil I would be using in the crankcase across the cam as I rotated the camshaft with either the starter or a drill motor attached to the crank.

I have never had the top end of a venture apart so I really do not know what the cam/journal/bearing lubrication arrangement is therein.. While waiting for someone with much more knowledge on the V-4 to respond here, I will do a little digging in the shop manual and VR tech site to see if I can determine what arrangement you are dealing with. You may want to do the same..

[made2care]

Exactly but before I did that I would do some digging and determine whether the top end has line bored journals or if it has actual bearings. I would also check and see whether or not those journals (if it has them) are part of the oil pump system that the pump is actually delivering oil under pressure to.

What I have done in the past is pull valve adjustment covers and/or valve covers and squirt the same oil I would be using in the crankcase across the cam as I rotated the camshaft with either the starter or a drill motor attached to the crank.

I have never had the top end of a venture apart so I really do not know what the cam/journal/bearing lubrication arrangement is therein.. While waiting for someone with much more knowledge on the V-4 to respond here, I will do a little digging in the shop manual and VR tech site to see if I can determine what arrangement you are dealing with. You may want to do the same..

 

Thanks for helping. The only thing I did to the top end is adjust the valves. I just now removed the cam plugs and saw some traces of old oil. I can squirt some oil in , then put plugs back. Will squirt some oil on lobes too like you suggested . I will look in manual too. Thanks again and keep in touch, especially since im getting ready to fire her up😀

[cowpuc]

Thanks for helping. The only thing I did to the top end is adjust the valves. I just now removed the cam plugs and saw some traces of old oil. I can squirt some oil in , then put plugs back. Will squirt some oil on lobes too like you suggested . I will look in manual too. Thanks again and keep in touch, especially since im getting ready to fire her up😀

 

Sounds awesome!! I did a little digging and found this thread = https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?33290-Proper-way-to-measure-valve-clearances/page3&highlight=valve+adjustment

 

which on page three has some fairly good pics of the cam/valve/journal arrangement. I noticed the plugs on the cam journal caps you are speaking of. I also noticed the exposed holes on tops of those caps and thought they were potentially entrances into the journals to capture oil as I mentioned previously but after noticing the plugs you are referring to it dawned on me that those openings are probably threaded internally and used to hole the covers on. All that said, it appears that the cam/journal set up is of the line-bored = cam to aluminum journals/saddles but are in fact part of the pump system = EXCELLENT!! You did good though brother,, good on ya for checking!!

I would hit the jugs with a 1/4 teaspoon of Marvel Mystery oil (I use a syringe for this) and roll it with the starter after buttoning up the cam area - plugs OUT and grounded. Couple minutes of that I would do the same with 1/4 teaspoon of raw fuel on top of the Marvel and spin it again.. If it spins fast enough to dampen the spark plug area's that would be AWESOME - keep the plugs away from their holes so you dont get ignition.. Spin it till it stops misting Marvel/fuel mix. Cycle the fuel pump with kill switch a few times to fill the bowls and start er up.. CANT WAIT TO HEAR THE GOOD NEWS!

[made2care]

Sounds awesome!! I did a little digging and found this thread = https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?33290-Proper-way-to-measure-valve-clearances/page3&highlight=valve+adjustment

 

which on page three has some fairly good pics of the cam/valve/journal arrangement. I noticed the plugs on the cam journal caps you are speaking of. I also noticed the exposed holes on tops of those caps and thought they were potentially entrances into the journals to capture oil as I mentioned previously but after noticing the plugs you are referring to it dawned on me that those openings are probably threaded internally and used to hole the covers on. All that said, it appears that the cam/journal set up is of the line-bored = cam to aluminum journals/saddles but are in fact part of the pump system = EXCELLENT!! You did good though brother,, good on ya for checking!!

I would hit the jugs with a 1/4 teaspoon of Marvel Mystery oil (I use a syringe for this) and roll it with the starter after buttoning up the cam area - plugs OUT and grounded. Couple minutes of that I would do the same with 1/4 teaspoon of raw fuel on top of the Marvel and spin it again.. If it spins fast enough to dampen the spark plug area's that would be AWESOME - keep the plugs away from their holes so you dont get ignition.. Spin it till it stops misting Marvel/fuel mix. Cycle the fuel pump with kill switch a few times to fill the bowls and start er up.. CANT WAIT TO HEAR THE GOOD NEWS!

 

okay, will do. I still have some electrical to do so I'm hoping by Sunday it will happen!!

[cowpuc]

okay, will do. I still have some electrical to do so I'm hoping by Sunday it will happen!!

 

Will be watching and waiting in great anticipation my friend!! that all goes according to plan!! Soooo much fun bringing these beasts back to health = GOOD ON YA FOR JUMPING IN WITH BOTH FEET AND GETTIN ER DONE!!

I gotta gut feeling that your big award is right around the corner:7_2_102[1]:

[made2care]

I noticed this little metal tube right next to spark plug. Anyone know what it is and if anything connects to it?i set the green pen pointing at it.

[made2care]

Bad news, maybe. All this time my attention has been on fixing the 2nd gear. Upon Preparing to install carbs today I noticed some rust on #4 valves. I sprayed a little P b blaster on them, let it soak for 10 min then turned engine slowly by hand. Since I had no problems a few months ago adjusting valves I figured everything was good. Will this burn off? Shoot! I should have checked while engine was out !!!

[made2care]

I noticed this little metal tube right next to spark plug. Anyone know what it is and if anything connects to it?i set the green pen pointing at it.

Second look. It's a pin of sorts.

[made2care]

Carbs are in. Lots left to do before I fire her up. I'm hoping valves will clean up after running a while. They will have to.

[cowpuc]

That roll pin you are pointing at is the locater pin and keeper for a plastic bypass tunnel to transfer anti-freeze. If you look horizontally behind the spark plug you can see the face of the plastic tunnel. The tunnel tube is removable (they can be a pugnacious little buggers to get out because there are o-rings that seal it) by removing the spark plug, pulling the roll pin and grabbing the exposed fin on the face and turning it/pulling it. If you start having misfiring and discover you are getting water/anti-freeze collecting around the plug - this is the first place I would check.. Just an FYI.

If @StevenG was still around he would be well pleased to hear what I am about to mention. If it were mine and was concerned about the rust formation on the valves I would do a compression test on it to make sure the rust had not formed on the face of the valves = possibly creating a leak which would not be good. I would also take my cheapy bore scope (bought it off ebay for 10 bucks, works pretty dog gone good!! I grabbed the one with the 10 foot lead so I could check drains and stuff if I wanted. No idea how much they are now but it was well worth 10 bucks, came with software too), roll the piston up on the intake stroke so the valve was open and look at the face of the valves just for kicks. Slight rust dusting is not that uncommon on valve faces/stems on the intakes after setting for long periods as the intakes run pretty dry, especially with no-lead 10 percent alcohol fuel running over em. As long as I didnt see stalagtites hanging from em I would not be too concerned. To my knowledge these V-4's do not have valve over lap ground into the cam profiles so scavenging is not a factor but you also do not have the benefit of burned gases keeping the valve and stem coated IMHO. Personally,, if the rust was just a dusty look to it, I would probably mix two stroke oil and gas at mix common for a dirt bike/chain saw,, maybe 30 to 1,, in a spray bottle and spray the mix into the intakes as I was rolling the bike over before starting it - dont hydro lock it,, just enough to dampen em up. I would also make sure that the fresh gas I was putting into the tank was "Top Tier" fuel so I knew it had a good detergent assisting in rust dust removal.. Give it every chance to survive any rust that may have built up on the valve faces and stems..

[cowpuc]

Forget what I wrote about misting em with gas/oil mix,, I just reread your post and see where you lubed em with PB Blaster,,, attal' do just fine! I would still make sure the fuel was Top Tier though,, cant hurt..

 

CAN NOT WAIT TO HEAR THE GOOD NEWS!!! :You_Rock_Emoticon:

[made2care]

Forget what I wrote about misting em with gas/oil mix,, I just reread your post and see where you lubed em with PB Blaster,,, attal' do just fine! I would still make sure the fuel was Top Tier though,, cant hurt..

 

CAN NOT WAIT TO HEAR THE GOOD NEWS!!! :You_Rock_Emoticon:

 

 

Before I placed the carbs in and after spraying PB blaster, i turned it over by hand watching the valves on #4 . When the valve closed, bubbles formed , so I think this might be leaking due to the rust ( the rust appears to be a little more than just surface but the valve does move freely). Right now, I don't want to remove the head and believe it or not, after all the years of working on bikes I have never done a compression test, therefore don't have the tools.

 

What should I do?

 

Option 1, fire her up anyway. Whats the worst that could happen if #4 is leaking.

Option 2. remove carbs and try to clean valves best as I can without removing the head, if that's even possible !

Option 3. remove the head but I don't want to do that right now.

[cowpuc]

Before I placed the carbs in and after spraying PB blaster, i turned it over by hand watching the valves on #4 . When the valve closed, bubbles formed , so I think this might be leaking due to the rust ( the rust appears to be a little more than just surface but the valve does move freely). Right now, I don't want to remove the head and believe it or not, after all the years of working on bikes I have never done a compression test, therefore don't have the tools.

 

What should I do?

 

Option 1, fire her up anyway. Whats the worst that could happen if #4 is leaking.

Option 2. remove carbs and try to clean valves best as I can without removing the head, if that's even possible !

Option 3. remove the head but I don't want to do that right now.

 

IMHO, moving freely in the guides is one thing, sealing on the valve seats is a whole nuther subject. If the valves are pitted from rust gathering there is very little chance of them lapping themselves back in to create a good seal.. What eventually will probably happen if they are pitted and/or have a build up of rust holding them open a little) on you run it on them is you will burn the valves..

Another option IMHO would be running the engine on the other 3 good jugs that have clean valves (I would check them too first and make sure the valves are sealing properly on them) leaving the plug out on the bad one. Spray PB into the #4 as its being operated by the three good pots and see if doing so wouldnt give the rusted valves a chance to reseal without combustion so they cant burn.

Years ago I took a spark plug and gutted it and stuck a shrader valve in it to use for leak down testing. Worked great.. Just run the piston to TDC on the compression stroke, hold the crank with a wrench so it couldnt spin when I hit it with air, shoot 40 psi in it and let it sit for a few minutes to see if it held. Bad valves were REAL easy to find like this as they would "whistle" - good easy test to show my customers whether or not they needed a valve job.

You could do something similar and then pull the plugs, expose the crank rotor nut so you could put a drill motor on the crank, spin the engine while keeping the valves moist with PB or some other lube with rust remover.. After a few minutes of running the engine without it actually running you could put some air on #4 and see if its still leaking..

Never know,, might work,, definitely better than just starting it and smoking the valves IMHO..

[made2care]

IMHO, moving freely in the guides is one thing, sealing on the valve seats is a whole nuther subject. If the valves are pitted from rust gathering there is very little chance of them lapping themselves back in to create a good seal.. What eventually will probably happen if they are pitted and/or have a build up of rust holding them open a little) on you run it on them is you will burn the valves..

Another option IMHO would be running the engine on the other 3 good jugs that have clean valves (I would check them too first and make sure the valves are sealing properly on them) leaving the plug out on the bad one. Spray PB into the #4 as its being operated by the three good pots and see if doing so wouldnt give the rusted valves a chance to reseal without combustion so they cant burn.

Years ago I took a spark plug and gutted it and stuck a shrader valve in it to use for leak down testing. Worked great.. Just run the piston to TDC on the compression stroke, hold the crank with a wrench so it couldnt spin when I hit it with air, shoot 40 psi in it and let it sit for a few minutes to see if it held. Bad valves were REAL easy to find like this as they would "whistle" - good easy test to show my customers whether or not they needed a valve job.

You could do something similar and then pull the plugs, expose the crank rotor nut so you could put a drill motor on the crank, spin the engine while keeping the valves moist with PB or some other lube with rust remover.. After a few minutes of running the engine without it actually running you could put some air on #4 and see if its still leaking..

Never know,, might work,, definitely better than just starting it and smoking the valves IMHO..

 

Well, I was rushing a little today and decided to slow down and rethink things. I removed all the spark plugs and sprayed a little pb blaster in each. Will let sit overnight. Tomorrow if I have time i will ground plug wires and and start it, hoping to break free any rust left over. fingers crossed the valves are okay. After that will attempt to start. Can't promise all of that will be done tomorrow but will try. Thanks for your advice and lets hope these valves seat nicely.

As you mentioned, valve could burn and if it does, i guess i have no choice but to pull the head. This will teach me a lesson, I should have looked over the valves and compression tested at the very beginning. Urghhhhhhhhh!!!!!

[made2care]

Not quite there yet. Yesterday i ground all plug wires, went ahead and put a little mm oil in each sp hole and started the bike. Good news is my new starter is working great!

Will try to compression test.

[made2care]

I'm going down to Autozone today to purchase a compression tester kit. plug hole size?

Is there a thread on how to perform a compression test?

Thanks

[luvmy40]

If you get the Loan A Tool set from AZ it will have the correct adapter included.

 

There are several schools of thought on the proper procedure for a compression test.

 

The constants are:

1. Fuel Pump electrics disconnected

2. Spark plugs all pulled

3. CDI disconnected or spark plugs grounded

4. Throttle wide open, or carbs pulled.

5. Booster pack or charger attached to battery. At the the very least, a freshly charged battery.

 

Here's where the thoughts differ:

 

Yamaha service manual says to crank the engine over until the pressure stops increasing.

 

Some folks have a favorite number of "cranks" 3, 5, 6 revolutions, what ever. I tend to stick to the factory service manual recommendations on these kind of tests.

[made2care]

Lesson learned. This will teach me. I ran a compression test with the engine cold.

 

1- 130

2- 160

3- 180

4- 120

 

I don't understand the higher numbers, bad rings? I also would like to know if I can run the engine to warm up and see if the numbers come into spec. I also read that if one puts a little oil in plug holes and the number goes up then its the rings.

I truly cannot believe after all these years I have never done compression readings and the bikes i had ran like a charm. My first "off frame " resto and this happens !!

I was surprised that #4 ( had rust on valves) was in spec.

Any ideas? Please help, I really wanted to fire her up !!

 

 

Actually, now i'm reading that if the compression reading is high, there might be some oil/liquid in there taking up space, so maybe i'm not doomed.

[made2care]

Here's a thought. My carb guy suggested I lower the valve clearances 1 to 2 thousands across the board, then take it out for a 20 mile ride , then recheck valve clearances and compression. The difference in readings of 120 and 180 will affect carberation.