To Jackhammer or not to Jackhammer,, this is the question! 4 my friend Jeff!

[cowpuc]

@Flyinfool asked about what I used to bust concrete during my past Sump Pump installation days. Here is a short summary of how that went and what I ended up with.

After pricing out actual Jack Hammer rental fee's for the project, being as frugal as I am and as in love with having my own tools, I went out looking for prices on one of those teeth shaking, toe breakin, body rattling monsters. After being SHOCKED at what one of those air powered things I have seen street workers riding around on cost - I made my way to Harbor Freight just to see what they offered.

I ended up purchasing the Hand Held Hammer/Hammer drill and a set of Masonry Bits for the machine. What you see in the attached pictures is what I came home with. Been a few years but as I recall, the price of this little jewel was VERY reasonable IMHO. Matter of fact, the unit price was almost exactly what the charge would have been for a rental with the 3 piece masonry bit set price kicking me just over Jack rental costs I had been quoted.

Jeff, our home is fairly new so the concrete work (it has poured walls and basement floor) is to money concious spec. I have done a little bit of building thru the years and am pretty sure that whoever the contractor was that poured the floor in the basement used the old "2x4" on its side to screet off the sand before pouring in an effort to not over use concrete. In some older homes that I have remodeled and ended up busting up concrete therein - I didnt always find that to be case and have ran into some pretty thick stuff = LOTS MORE WORK. That said, this unit worked GREAT on my basements 3 1/2 inch crete. I found that using the Point to get started in making a hole worked best and then moving on to the smaller chisel you see in the pics. This thing cut like butter once I learned to let it do the work..

I dont think it would be quite as effective on thicker footing work or real thick floors though.. Just a thought.

Here are the pics. Hopefully this helps in your decision making and/or anyone else facing such needs.

Puc

[Flyinfool]

Not quite sure which of these it is comparable to.

https://www.harborfreight.com/105-amp-1-916-in-sds-max-type-pro-variable-speed-rotary-hammer-kit-63441.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/125-Amp-SDS-Max-Type-Pro-Demolition-Hammer-Kit-63437.html

 

Can you get a pic of the data plate on the tool. That should have all the real info.

[cowpuc]

Mine is the first one Jeff, the 10 and 1/2 amp.

[ragtop69gs]

When I remodeled my kitchen thats on a slab, I needed to get a water line to the other side of the room, I rented a concrete saw, made quick work of trenching the slab and clean lines when I poured the new concrete.

 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[slowrollwv]

Jeff if you are going to buy a new tool to break up the concrete with a hammer drill. Look at an area pawn shop, you may find a better tool for less than new. I have done this for tools that I do not use every day and still have them and they work fine.

[Flyinfool]

Jeff if you are going to buy a new tool to break up the concrete with a hammer drill. Look at an area pawn shop, you may find a better tool for less than new. I have done this for tools that I do not use every day and still have them and they work fine.

 

I will see if I can find a pawn shop around here. I did check on ebay and Craigs list for used ones in the area.

 

For the 2 times I will use it a used one may be just fine.

 

Based on the last time I had to put a hole in the floor the floor is only about 2 inches thick and a very poor grade of concrete. I was easily able to break it up with a 2 lb ball peen hammer. The floor is just strong enough that my air chisel was not enough.

 

I am going to try to sneak past the washer and dryer and not have to move them. I will put temp feet about 1 foot back from the front and let the feet of the stand hang over air while I work.

[cowpuc]

I will see if I can find a pawn shop around here. I did check on ebay and Craigs list for used ones in the area.

 

For the 2 times I will use it a used one may be just fine.

 

Based on the last time I had to put a hole in the floor the floor is only about 2 inches thick and a very poor grade of concrete. I was easily able to break it up with a 2 lb ball peen hammer. The floor is just strong enough that my air chisel was not enough.

 

I am going to try to sneak past the washer and dryer and not have to move them. I will put temp feet about 1 foot back from the front and let the feet of the stand hang over air while I work.

 

All that said brother,,, why not just cruise over to this Milwakee Rental place and rent this for a day (42 bucks = cant even hardly buy a set of SDS MAX chisles for that!!)..https://www.arearentalwi.com/shop/rotary-hammer-drill/

[RSTDdog]

Not sure what size or shape hole you need, but if the slab is only 2 inches thick, Get a concrete blade for your circular saw. $15.00-$35.00 depending on brand. That will get you down almost 3 1/2 inches. (most concrete circular saw blades are only 7 inches so probably closer to 3" depth of cut) I think I bought the cheap Husky brand diamond blade from Home Depot. I used it to make a trench for conduit to move a kitchen island and the electric. For that trench (not going through the slab) made multiple parallel cuts and easily knocked out the thin ribs with hammer and chisel. I have also use it to cut patio stones and other stuff. 4 cuts gets you a square hole in your 2 inch concrete floor. Multiple parallel cuts and bust out the ribs gets you a rectangle.

[Patch]

Unless we are enlarging a hole we choose to cut; it's fast and we reduce fracturing.

I know our jobs are bigger but a basement would be the same choice.

[Condor]

Now that's just plain pretty....

[Patch]

Now that's just plain pretty....

 

OK I'll bite, and?

[Sylvester]

All that said brother,,, why not just cruise over to this Milwakee Rental place and rent this for a day (42 bucks = cant even hardly buy a set of SDS MAX chisles for that!!)..https://www.arearentalwi.com/shop/rotary-hammer-drill/

 

 

Thar's the same one I have had for near twenty years and is excellent.

 

[cowpuc]

Now that's just plain pretty....

 

OK I'll bite, and?

 

Well,, I can't speak for @Condor but I kinda sorta think he was just and admiring the purdiness of that concrete work.. I only say that cause me and Jack got some similar taste in beauty (having been around him and motorcycles and such proved that) and I gotta say,, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH HIM!! NICE PIECE OF CONCRETE WORK RIGHT THERE = definitey PURDY!!

[Patch]

Thanks Puc. See I'm thinking he's got a humdinger of a joke/tail to tell us.

Nothing other intended.

 

There is another advantage to cutting and it rests in the placement, with this type of cut we can bond the placement of the fill to once again make the pour homogeneous and leak resistant via this bonding. We use just inexpensive white carpenters glue unless specked otherwise by engineering. The ratios are on the back of the glue gallons.

[uncledj]

Unless we are enlarging a hole we choose to cut; it's fast and we reduce fracturing.

I know our jobs are bigger but a basement would be the same choice.

Basement concrete isn't usually very thick though.....Cut, if you've a concrete saw, ... or at least deeply score with a circular saw / diamond blade and break.

[Flyinfool]

I need a hole about 2 feet by 12-15 feet. I am pricing rentals of a saw and vac system. I tried a concrete blade in my circle saw and it was just WAY to much dust, and that was just after the first foot of cut. That much dust is not an option. My basement is full of dust sensitive equipment. It is very hard to shield everything from that very abrasive dust.

[RDawson]

A wet saw will cut down on dust or holding a shop vac hose next to the blade.

[cowpuc]

I need a hole about 2 feet by 12-15 feet. I am pricing rentals of a saw and vac system. I tried a concrete blade in my circle saw and it was just WAY to much dust, and that was just after the first foot of cut. That much dust is not an option. My basement is full of dust sensitive equipment. It is very hard to shield everything from that very abrasive dust.

 

Go outside, get a couple buckets of Wisconsin White Wash, go downstairs, pack the White Wash on the cut line, when it melts (dont use the High Temp stuff, it wont work as well and its kind of pricey ) go to cuttin and the melted White Wash will collect the dust. Then when evaporates (like Frosty on a hot summer day), sweep up the remains..

P.S. - if you need White Wash I have a BUNCH of it gathering back on my freshly blown driveway as I type. Be glad to point the snout of Johnny's blower your way and send it home where it belongs

[RSTDdog]

I need a hole about 2 feet by 12-15 feet. I am pricing rentals of a saw and vac system. I tried a concrete blade in my circle saw and it was just WAY to much dust, and that was just after the first foot of cut. That much dust is not an option. My basement is full of dust sensitive equipment. It is very hard to shield everything from that very abrasive dust.

 

I did not have to go 15 feet for my kitchen project ( in your case 34 feet, 15+15+2+2). I did put a rectangular clear plastic storage container over the circular saw with a port for a shop vac using a HEPA filter and a hole for my hand to work the saw. This worked well to control the dust. Rental equipment is probably better suited for the amount of cutting you need to do. Don't think I would want to jack hammer all that. If you make roughly equal cross cuts you could end up with 6-7 ~2x2 pavers to use out side somewhere.

[Patch]

I need a hole about 2 feet by 12-15 feet. I am pricing rentals of a saw and vac system. I tried a concrete blade in my circle saw and it was just WAY to much dust, and that was just after the first foot of cut. That much dust is not an option. My basement is full of dust sensitive equipment. It is very hard to shield everything from that very abrasive dust.

 

Plus the crosscuts perhaps 2 blades. A quick connect hose or a ball valve for trim and shutoff.

Then plan a lift out for the pieces and whatever form of shipping to the recycling depot.

A small job like this we would use a floor squeegee and a shop vac with a bag and regular 2 micron filter for managing dried slurry.

This looks like a one 6 hour cut and a 4 hour lift for 4 young men 2 inside and 2 outside... give or take

 

Don't forget the knee pads dust masks and safety shield 4 pairs of gloves for the lift

[Flyinfool]

I did not have to go 15 feet for my kitchen project ( in your case 34 feet, 15+15+2+2). I did put a rectangular clear plastic storage container over the circular saw with a port for a shop vac using a HEPA filter and a hole for my hand to work the saw. This worked well to control the dust. Rental equipment is probably better suited for the amount of cutting you need to do. Don't think I would want to jack hammer all that. If you make roughly equal cross cuts you could end up with 6-7 ~2x2 pavers to use out side somewhere.

 

In the current floor I can see the outlines of the trench they dug to put the pipe in originally. My house was built before indoor plumbing was available, so it was added at a later date. I can see where the floor was done one 5 gallon bucket of cement at a time, there is a seam every couple of feet, the edges of the original trench was broken out by hammer so they are jagged, IF I use a saw I will cut outside of the existing trench so that I have room to get a shovel down alongside of the pipe. I am pretty sure that if I try to lift out square section of floor that they will just crumble with all the seams in them. If I do make saw cuts I will just break up the interior parts. The last area that I did was pretty easy to break, it is really weak cement. Heck even my washing machine feet are working their way into the floor. I had to put bigger steel plates under each foot to spread the load. You should see the plates that are needed under the big machines.

 

If I rent the saw with a vac that is supposed to be dust free and specifically made to collect concrete dust, it is $60 for 4 hours. Goes up to $85 for a full day if I go over the 4 hours. Either way it does not come with a blade. I have to buy the blade for $22 and I get to keep it at the end of the job. I am thinking that 34 feet of cut should take less than 4 hours, that 4 hour clock is only running during store hours. So if I get it in the evening I can have it all night and bring it back in the next morning for the 4 hour rate.

[Flyinfool]

I did not have to go 15 feet for my kitchen project ( in your case 34 feet, 15+15+2+2). I did put a rectangular clear plastic storage container over the circular saw with a port for a shop vac using a HEPA filter and a hole for my hand to work the saw. This worked well to control the dust. Rental equipment is probably better suited for the amount of cutting you need to do. Don't think I would want to jack hammer all that. If you make roughly equal cross cuts you could end up with 6-7 ~2x2 pavers to use out side somewhere.

 

In the current floor I can see the outlines of the trench they dug to put the pipe in originally. My house was built before indoor plumbing was available, so it was added at a later date. I can see where the floor was done one 5 gallon bucket of cement at a time, there is a seam every couple of feet, the edges of the original trench was broken out by hammer so they are jagged, IF I use a saw I will cut outside of the existing trench so that I have room to get a shovel down alongside of the pipe and end up with clean edges. Clean edges also makes it easier to calculate just how much concrete I will need to patch the floor. I am pretty sure that if I try to lift out square sections of floor that they will just crumble with all the seams in them. If I do make saw cuts I will just break up the interior parts. The last area that I did was pretty easy to break, it is really weak cement. Heck even my washing machine feet are working their way into the floor. I had to put steel plates under each foot to spread the load. You should see the plates that are needed under the big heavy machines.

 

If I rent the saw with a vac that is supposed to be dust free and specifically made to collect concrete dust, it is $60 for 4 hours. Goes up to $85 for a full day if I go over the 4 hours. Either way it does not come with a blade. I have to buy the blade for $22 and I get to keep it at the end of the job. I am thinking that 34 feet of cut should take less than 4 hours, that 4 hour clock is only running during store hours. So if I get it in the evening I can have it all night and bring it back in the next morning for the 4 hour rate.

[Patch]

Yep I know what you mean!

 

The reason we cross cut is to plan disposal and man hours. A clean plan works best for safety and our bottom line.

 

I am likely not the best guy for DIY as I tend to concern over the small safety issues...

 

If I may offer up a quick story.

 

Looking to fill some time in during a dry spell I took on a job with a larger contractor who had work in a hospital around the turn of this century:)

 

Anyways nice bunch of guys and we were demoing behind the sterilization ovens;;; man was it hot, also poorly lit. Well a chunk of concrete fell from a beam deflecting off the right side of my hardhat, knocking me onto another fellow sending us both crashing through the dust and debris into a pile of rubble. Now I felt somewhat scrambled shuck it off and got back at it. Now we were not the guys that prepped the job, meaning the safety issues and risk potentials/hazard assessments were addressed during engineering!

Following day I was called into the office and reprimanded for having temperately taped up a copper tubing that had sustained some form of impact. Yes I said clearly I did do so, we all thought it was a HVAC vacuum tube! Turns out that engineering missed it and likely thought as we did? Nope it was a feed tube for some kill all gas feeding the ovens!

 

Well talk about feeling like a pigeon; of the crew I was the only contractor and therefore insured. It did not go their way I quickly pointed to my calluses stating they were just that not feathers.

 

But I learned a valuable lesson in due diligence and in keeping it all manageable.

 

.4 meters give or take in and out of the basement.