People are stepping up to the giants

[Patch]

Like I was sayen.

They ran the add despite the injunction;

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/general-motors-disputes-unifors-super-bowl-ad

[SpencerPJ]

Great Ad, should have ended with Make Canada Great again!

[XV1100SE]

It is too late for GM in Oshawa. By Christmas they (and several plants in the U.S.) will be shut down. Maybe GM is waiting for a bribe from our governments (like we haven't given them enough money and incentives). I feel sorry for the workers in Oshawa - almost 3,000 plus suppliers, restaurants, stores, etc.. Despite large profits...they say they are reorganizing operations to prepare for future generation vehicles (and increase profits even more for investors). They don't care about the families of the people they are making unemployed.

 

I work in the auto industry (for Toyota in Cambridge and Woodstock in I.T.). Toyota is non-unionized but treats their employees well. When there was the global financial crisis, tsunami in Japan that impacted production, "stuck" gas pedal....Toyota did NOT lay people off but found work for them to do at the plant. There is a lot of investment in Canada and the U.S. by Toyota, by Honda, by Mercedes, etc.... It is a shame the way GM treats their "family".

[XV1100SE]

Great Ad, should have ended with Make Canada Great again!

 

Unifor (union in Canada) is suggesting that we stop buying "made in Mexico" vehicles (VIN starts with a 3 I believe). Side effect of that though is the supply chain from Canada and the U.S. will also be affected. My opinion is that they go for a stop buying from GM completely. When it hits their bottom line, their stock price will fall, impact on profits....then and only then will they listen.

 

I think it comes down more to corporate responsibility. For Oshawa, autos have been made their for 100 years. One of the founding companies that became GM started in Oshawa. GM is the biggest employer in Oshawa.

 

I lived in Brantford where Massey Ferguson and White Farm Equipment made combines and when they both shut down around the same time it had a major impact on the city and the people. The downtown stores were 80%+ boarded up. I have some idea of what this will do to Oshawa and to the cities in the States when GM "reorganizes". Generations of families have worked for GM. Where do those workers go ? If you have more than 10 years with GM....or not quite there for retirement...good luck finding a job to support your family, and yourself.

 

There is a GM auto plant in Ingersol Ontario that has been threatened with shutdown over the years. Hopefully they will not be impacted by GM's future plans. Maybe @sleepy2 can comment on this.

[Marcarl]

Just some thoughts:

It's free enterprise and stock market. When a company is on the SM it needs to keep profits in the black so that investors are attracted. If payouts decline then investors go elsewhere, and investors don't care about employees and families, only about the return on their money. I'm one of them investors and probably so is most everyone else. I took a big hit last year on my RRSPs and yep! I'm looking for a more solid place to put my retirement funds. Does this include GM? don't know, maybe yes maybe no. But it does impact some company with employees somewhere, so in order to keep my money, some company has to do better financially, and when they do they will attract more stock funds. So companies need to look to the future as to where the best profit will be or they will loose their financial backing. Guess it's kind of a catch 22 situation. Really,,,, I would say that GM employees priced themselves out of a job.

Years ago, I had a good paying job as a meat cutter in a grocery chain, every store had a bunch of us. Things were good, for the company and the employees. Then the union came aboard and in a few years our wages went up 25%. I said then (because there was already thoughts on this) that if we continued to press for higher wages, the company would take our work elsewhere,,, we did, and they did!! Now there is only 1 meat cutter where there used to be up to 6 or 7 and all cutting is done at a central location, packaged and shipped to the stores. No more in-store meat cutters, lots of meat being thrown out and quality is the pits, but the profits are up and more controllable. Investors are happy, that's you and me, and a capitalistic society.

[BlueSky]

Yes, corporate managers are there to make sure the company makes a profit. If companies are moving to Mexico, it's the governments job to change the corporate environment to keep them by using tariffs, incentives, etc as much as it makes sense. We finally have someone in office in the USA who recognizes those facts and is trying to do something about it. Being able to buy stuff at a lower cost doesn't matter that much when you don't have a job with income.

[RandyR]

80% of the cost of everthing we use/buy/consume goes to paper shufflers, money manipulators, influencer/marketing, and political action groups. Maybe 5% on the average goes to stock holders, and most of that 5% is really inflation.

 

Investment banks, brokers, and capitol buyout firms run prices up and down and take 10% everytime a dollar goes thru their system. They sell to each other at inflated prices and take tax writeoffs on everything. And pay themselves big bucks irrespective of the little investor 99% of the time.

 

Every once in a while an individual investor makes a 'killing' in the stock market. Then again, every once in awhile someone wins a big lottery or pulls the handle just right on a Las Vegas slot machine. It always makes the news.

 

Consider this. WWII economy in the USA. A large portion of the (then) traditional workforce was placed in the military and outside of the production effort. Prices and availability were managed (ask grandma about ration stamps), to a large extent housing was managed in city areas with manufacturing. But no one went hungary. Unskilled workers were housed, fed, and TRAINED quickly. New manufacturing facilities were put up in months, not years. Profits were controlled, but there were still millionaires being made. etc etc Everyone pulled together and the war effort gave us common goals (other than who can make the most money).

 

More food for thought. When Mercedes bought into Chrysler (no too many years ago) Chrysler was losing lots of money. Mercedes fired the top 50 managers at Chrysler. The loses exactly equalled the salaries plus perks of the top 50 managers, even when the company was going bankrupt.

Edited February 4, 2019 by RandyR

[Patch]

Hmm, I agree with these posts, but not without argument.

 

One quick note before I forget, Ford did not attend the self entitlement bathing party as a Captain of industry. Say what you want about them but to the best I know they stood on principles of better management.

 

I after reading Casey's post went looking for industry trends and found a report on Harley in regards to diligence and stock value it was an interesting read.

 

Carl, so Canadian flipping the other side of the Looney injecting a broader view. But how does this objective lighting help our fields of seed? We are bombarded by liberal preaching on the need for immigration (to pick a Canadian topic) certainly we all remember the Block do we also remember when these words were spoke (Loosely Translated)

Come on my children make babies? It does not translate well but the meaning was to grow our families so we might be less dependent on immigration!

 

We perhaps need to stay the second largest land mass in the galaxy with the smallest population? Lets build a dome type force field fork the wall chit because the Yanks :)sorry) they will steam right through and the rest of the world will steam up to, or simply land on and show us what and how to grow our nation from a position of strength. I know them seem intense words from a passive Canadian but - if we can't entice and maintain industry then we have no leverage and no place at the table. We will not be able as a country to support our own so, all the more reason to simply stop immigration.

 

A nation without industry is not a nation it is a territory and, just a line in the sand. Industry without people is not a pleasant thought. Industry has the promise of a standard of living. Mexico will benefit and good for them, they somehow beat us at a game we once played very well.,

We have to leverage and in this case, we thought we did our extra bit and we got forked, again: my opinion.

 

Tell me are we just a nation of natural resources that we Canadians are anxious to give away? Have we become so weak that we cannot even reason a deal between provenances for the betterment of this entire nation? How is the nickle belt doing these days, or forestry, pulp and paper, Candu reactors, SNC Lavalin, Bombardier, natural gas, oil patch, has anybody seen the Avro new gen lately, and does that Canada arm still work? Should James Bay be exempt?

Why did we vote out a macro economics prime minister who kept Canada in the lead during the economic disaster - for a flower child/poster boy promising a brighter future to immigrants while he splintered our economy and, all the while assuming we all should think as he, and dress up and flounder while we sit at camp fires and sing a longs ignoring our central governments incompetence?!!!

 

Are we an oil buck/dollar yes or no? Why can't we come together on this?

 

We can not exist as a nation without industry, period! The value of the dollar is based on trade not bullion and not the service industry.

 

I have no patients for self-serving leadership whether that be politicians or Captains of industries.

 

We can not keep turning the other cheek. We are an industrious nation yet, industry is leaving us. We must change our passive thinking and stop the existing.

 

On this I am not alone in my thinking; cheers

Edited February 4, 2019 by Patch

[SpencerPJ]

When it hits their bottom line, their stock price will fall, impact on profits....then and only then will they listen.

 

Na, here in the States, the top level executives will sell off their stock, then announce decline, let stock plummet, let the American Gov't bail them out, buy stock at low end, make false claims to the American people, grow it, 5 years later, repeat.

 

On a side note, I did hear or read the GM is considering taking over Tesla. Probably move them jobs south as well.

[RandyR]

This has been coming for a long time.

 

If any of you are trully interested in how many of the financial investment/regulatory 'leaders' operate/think, you should read the book Megatrends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Naisbitt

 

Megatrends (1982) was on the NY Times bestseller list for 2 years. It outlines the future where masses of money and market manipulation are more important than manufacturing (and science and engineering). Its the bible of the leveraged buyout and consolidation of the financial services industries.

 

I read the book then. It made me scared. We're living it today.

[Chaharly]

Ive pretty much made the decision long ago to NEVER buy a new vehicle. I could make 100k a year and I would still drive late 90s pickups. I spent 1100 bucks on my silverado. Its got a 5.7 and 4x4. This truck has more power than I will ever need and it gets OK mileage for what it is. I couldn't even imagine what the equivalent of my truck would cost now-adays.

[BlueSky]

Ive pretty much made the decision long ago to NEVER buy a new vehicle. I could make 100k a year and I would still drive late 90s pickups. I spent 1100 bucks on my silverado. Its got a 5.7 and 4x4. This truck has more power than I will ever need and it gets OK mileage for what it is. I couldn't even imagine what the equivalent of my truck would cost now-adays.

 

Yep, over your lifetime, you can save a fortune by buying used vehicles and used homes instead of new.

[cowpuc]

Ive pretty much made the decision long ago to NEVER buy a new vehicle. I could make 100k a year and I would still drive late 90s pickups. I spent 1100 bucks on my silverado. Its got a 5.7 and 4x4. This truck has more power than I will ever need and it gets OK mileage for what it is. I couldn't even imagine what the equivalent of my truck would cost now-adays.

 

I am sooo proud of you Cha that I could scream but I gotta tell ya,, if there is one thing life has taught me it's to never say never (I say that in a very positive sense my brother).

A short Puc story..

Ever heard or listened to Dave Ramsey? Well, your ol buddy Puc (and his lovely bride Tip) was Dave Ramsey on steroids wayyy before Dave Ramsey ever came on the scene. We successfully lived a life of paying CASH for everything, included houses (left home when I was 15 with a dollar in my pocket and a shirt on my back and by the time I was 23 I owned my first home free and clear - payed 10 grand cash for it and started putting cash into it to prepare it for marriage and a family), cars, bikes and on and on. Neither my wife or I ever had a credit card of any sort, never been in debt. Tippy also has never worked outside of our home (she home schooled our 4 kids though so she worked wayyyy harder in life than I EVER did), by her AVID couponding and frugalness (taught our kids to shop Goodwill and the like,, pretty interesting really cause right now we have a family member who is well above the 6 digit income and that "child" STILL shops Goodwill on a regular basis and makes HUGE $$ donations to assist others in becoming REAL Americans who are self dependent/reliant) and thru living by the simple principle of living within our means and by the grace of God, I remained the sole "bread winner" throughout our married lives.

Granted,, there were sometimes when we lived in unfinished homes and had to work on our own used cars, bikes and remodel the homes we lived in and, even the kids at very early ages painted walls, hung drywall, learned to do brake jobs and change oil in their own cars,, I guess if a person leans more toward the left politically my wife and I would be considered evil or something,, we were that horrible in our expectance of our offspring to gradually learn to stand on their own two feet..

You probably dont have to read between the lines here to KNOW that I personally uddered your exact words MANY times over about EVER and NEVER buying a new car:beer:. A new bike? Ohhh heck yeah:big-grin-emoticon:,,, I have bought MANY (for cash) but only a few before we were married and started our family and NEVER borrowed for one:Cartoon_397:. All brand new after we married were business related and part of business inventory.

Now,, fast track to these years that Tip and I find us in - I call this "Phase 6".. The mind may always be willing to continue on in entrenched lifes idea's but the body doesnt necessarily always agree with the mind. Being now further down the pipe of Phase 6 of life has taught me somethings about my past ideas.. My house building/oil changing/bike/car/tractor/wash machines/clothes dryer fixing days are pretty thin these days (YOU would have loved Tippies old wash machine Cha - had a Maytag topend and a Whirlpool bottom end - IT WAS BAD TO THE BONE!!) cause my hands/knees/heart/neck/lower back/toes and even teeth all got together and decided to go on an extented vacation and I gotta tell ya,, I really dont think they have any notion of returning to service:fishin:.

With that in mind and with a pocket full of cash from living the life style of living within our means,, think of how luring a new car that gets 60 mpg with a 10 year Warranty and lifetime warranty on the battery (Hybrid BUT, the 12 volt battery for starting the engine is even part of the Hybrid "Pac" which carries a lifetime warranty) for 10 thousand dollars less than a new Touring bike would be:detective:. As hard as it was,,, I/we caved.. But,,, and this is HUGE,, at this point (haven't bumped into the taking it in for warranty work YET - GET AWAY FROM ME MURPHY!! I SWEAR I WILL DRILL A HOLE IN A FENDER AND HANG A GREMLIN BELL ON THIS THING IF I HAVE TO!!) this is one "cave in" that we are 100% enjoying everytime we go anywhere!

My advice,, work hard, stay FAR away from socialist ideas (for more "Puc thought on this - take a second and watch the video below) and getting hooked on anti-American - family destroying - entitlement living of any form (stand on the two feet the Lord gave us, trust Him - not the Guvment), live within your means but dont forget about the future.. Maybe put some $$ aside, even 10 bucks a week if your just starting out, for Phase 6 cause one never really knows when he/she may have to eat a little crow (I have ate my share in life Cha - Crow is really pretty tasty if ya cook it right:missingtooth:) and cave in to lifes demands.. Something to think about I reckon..

Puc

 

Life in nutshell:

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by cowpuc

[Condor]

Dang Puc!! I gotta admit I have bought a few new things in the last 40 years, but you can probably count them on one hand. The last car was a new '79 VDub Rabbit (40-50mpg) for about 6 grand that I wore out traveling on the road before I decided to work for myself and keep all the profits... Ever since, I've lived in a cash world. I haven't made a loan payment in 40 years. I do have a couple of credit cards that I now use for online purchases, but they get paid off every month... so no interest... :-) I do a lot of auctions, and own lots of 'stuff'. My kids call me a hoarder... But it's good stuff. I throw lots of junk away... When I look around in the house it's hard to find anything that I bought new. Maybe one or two items... that's it.. But I can relate to everything you wrote. Even the part about the mind still thinking it's young and the bod telling you it's not.... I like Water World too....

[cowpuc]

Dang Puc!! I gotta admit I have bought a few new things in the last 40 years, but you can probably count them on one hand. The last car was a new '79 VDub Rabbit (40-50mpg) for about 6 grand that I wore out traveling on the road before I decided to work for myself and keep all the profits... Ever since, I've lived in a cash world. I haven't made a loan payment in 40 years. I do have a couple of credit cards that I now use for online purchases, but they get paid off every month... so no interest... :-) I do a lot of auctions, and own lots of 'stuff'. My kids call me a hoarder... But it's good stuff. I throw lots of junk away... When I look around in the house it's hard to find anything that I bought new. Maybe one or two items... that's it.. But I can relate to everything you wrote. Even the part about the mind still thinking it's young and the bod telling you it's not.... I like Water World too....

 

Yeah,, Tip and I been pretty radical about the whole "get a job and stand on your own two feet" thingy.. Matter of fact,, so bad that once while crossing the country on our 1st first gen my oldest daughter, who was 10 at the was meandering thru the tourist trap shops at Wall Drug where she had been listening to music on one of thier headphones at a CD stand when she handed me the headset and said: Listen to this dad,, its all about you!!. Below is the song she was listening to(makes me tear up everytime I hear it) .. Back to the point I was trying to make to Cha though,, Unfortunately, as Chet told Monty Walsh in one of my favorite cowboy movies: NO ONE GETS TO BE A COWBOY FOREVER.

 

[saddlebum]

Ive pretty much made the decision long ago to NEVER buy a new vehicle. I could make 100k a year and I would still drive late 90s pickups. I spent 1100 bucks on my silverado. Its got a 5.7 and 4x4. This truck has more power than I will ever need and it gets OK mileage for what it is. I couldn't even imagine what the equivalent of my truck would cost now-adays.

The way I see it I can usually do a lot of repairs and buy a lot of gas on what I save by not buying a new vehicle. More so since I can do my own work. Engines and transmissions can be swapped rotten chassis are another issue, so When I buy used, body and chassis condition are number one for me.

 

As much as I love my Tundra if I had to replace it I would love to find a mint condition 60's to 80's vehicle that requires little or no diagnostic software to maintain. If it had points I would consider replacing the distributor with a pointless one though like we did back when we built muscle cars in the 60's and 70's.

 

On another note My father used to say that the old Farmer he worked for back in 52 when he emigrated here from Holland always maintained that Canada had all the resources to be self sufficient but if we continued down the path we were going we would be nothing more than a warehouse and exporter of raw materials for the rest of the world and that only the wealthy would benefit.

[Chaharly]

Yeah,, Tip and I been pretty radical about the whole "get a job and stand on your own two feet" thingy.. Matter of fact,, so bad that once while crossing the country on our 1st first gen my oldest daughter, who was 10 at the was meandering thru the tourist trap shops at Wall Drug where she had been listening to music on one of thier headphones at a CD stand when she handed me the headset and said: Listen to this dad,, its all about you!!. Below is the song she was listening to(makes me tear up everytime I hear it) .. Back to the point I was trying to make to Cha though,, Unfortunately, as Chet told Monty Walsh in one of my favorite cowboy movies: NO ONE GETS TO BE A COWBOY FOREVER.

 

 

Don't be too proud of me puc. I unfortunately had to learn the hard way about saving and buying. I remember when I wanted a guitar when I was 15 years old my dad brought me into the bank and set up a 500 dollar loan. Then I wanted a mustang, then college loans and then a bike so pretty much from then up until a couple months from now I've been in debt, although some of it is college debt. I had made a series of financial mistakes that took me into the point of a bankruptcy but since then Ive seen things really turned things around financially. I think I get what you mean by no one gets to be a cowboy forever. Some days I feel like I'll live forever, but I know you're right. I put away some money every week for retirement, so I hope when the time comes I can pick and choose my battles when it comes to what to keep and work on and what to buy. I cant wait to buy that Tenere 700 if its what I hope its gonna be. I'm gonna have to do some test rides on a few different models, but I'll buy it with $$$$$$$.

 

To be honest though. I think what I need is an:grandma:. You're lucky you have Tippy and now she can "grab the bars" and I hope I can find that in a lady some day!

[Patch]

Yeah,, : NO ONE GETS TO BE A COWBOY FOREVER.

 

But we can try!

Something in the song posted, When it hurts hide, yep and when you can;t remember to love it.

 

Your story telling Puc reminds me of this fellow

 

and

 

and this link is to more of his singing stories

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=walter+brennan+it+takes+a+heap+of+living&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLUz9U3MEozKzZW4tFP1zcsNjAts8wustQSy0620s8tLc5M1k8sKsksLrEqzs9LL37E6M8t8PLHPWEpt0lrTl5jdODCoVBIjYvNNa8ks6RSSIaLVwphjwaDFDcXgsuziFWjPDGnJLVIIakoNS8vMU8hs0ShJDE7tVghUSEjNbFAIT9NISezLDMvHQBfAr8GsAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX8Yy9pKjgAhWWn4MKHfOGDdsQri4Ibg

[Chaharly]

The way I see it I can usually do a lot of repairs and buy a lot of gas on what I save by not buying a new vehicle. More so since I can do my own work. Engines and transmissions can be swapped rotten chassis are another issue, so When I buy used, body and chassis condition are number one for me.

 

As much as I love my Tundra if I had to replace it I would love to find a mint condition 60's to 80's vehicle that requires little or no diagnostic software to maintain. If it had points I would consider replacing the distributor with a pointless one though like we did back when we built muscle cars in the 60's and 70's.

 

On another note My father used to say that the old Farmer he worked for back in 52 when he emigrated here from Holland always maintained that Canada had all the resources to be self sufficient but if we continued down the path we were going we would be nothing more than a warehouse and exporter of raw materials for the rest of the world and that only the wealthy would benefit.

 

Has that farmer been proven right??

 

I'd love earlier 80s late 70s vehicles but i just imagine the gas mileage plus I'm pretty spoiled with fuel injection as well lol

[BlueSky]

I really enjoyed my cars back in the 60's and 70's. The last time I pulled the engine out of my 65 Chevelle, it only took one hour from running to hanging free. But, the new cars are superior in almost every way, power, economy, handling, comfort, braking, longevity, everything. Well, my 59 Impala did have that large bench seat with plenty of room for me and my girl friend to get frisky......

[Sailor]

A friends father worked in Ontario for GM for about 30 years before he retired. He had been in management. A few years after he retired Gm decided they needed to make more profits so they cut his pension in half. Came as a real shock to him.

[BlueSky]

A friends father worked in Ontario for GM for about 30 years before he retired. He had been in management. A few years after he retired Gm decided they needed to make more profits so they cut his pension in half. Came as a real shock to him.

 

I'm sure that was a shock! I didn't know companies could do that without going into bankruptcy and the judge deciding it must be done to save the company.

[Sailor]

It was apparently because he was in management he had no contract or protection and they could do whatever they wanted. I know he was not the only one affected.

[saddlebum]

I really enjoyed my cars back in the 60's and 70's. The last time I pulled the engine out of my 65 Chevelle, it only took one hour from running to hanging free. But, the new cars are superior in almost every way, power, economy, handling, comfort, braking, longevity, everything. Well, my 59 Impala did have that large bench seat with plenty of room for me and my girl friend to get frisky......

I have to agree except for the braking and that only because I am firm believer that ABS has no business being used on cars. My main reason for leaning towards the older vehicle is I want something that is simple to maintain (Heck my buddy tells me even the new chain saws require diagnostic software to diag these days)

[BlueSky]

One of those old cars with no electronics might still run if we ever get hit by an electromagnetic bomb. But we will have plenty of other issues to deal with if that ever happens.