Poor Man's Brake lamp and turn signal upgrade

[KiteSquid]

Several threads here got me thinking about LEDs and our bikes.

 

After looking a the price of LED boards for the 2nd generation RSV, I was in shock, they are IMHO EXPENSIVE, but probably worth it.

 

Not wanting to spend the dollars on lamps with unadvertised light output and being a reasonably frugal guy, I looked for an alternative.

 

I did some research and found the following lamps are installed in our bikes from the factory.

 

cp = Candle Power.

 

Brake/Tail: 1157 with a Ba15d base: 32/3cp

 

Rear Turn: 7507A with a PY21W base: 22.2cp

 

Front Turn/Running: (Unknown bulb) with an unknown base (Still researching): 24/2.2 cp

 

So a quick look in Sylvania Automotive Lamp Catalog I found the following bulbs with SIMILAR bases

 

2357LL with a Ba15d base: 40/3cp (the LL stands for Long Life. On close inspection it is actually a Krypton bulb.)

 

2357A with Ba15d base: 30/2.2cp (the A is for Amber coating on the bulb)

 

So I put a 2357LL in my Brake/Tail lamp housing. It was a 25% improvement in light output on the brake light, from 32cp to 40cp!!!!! No improvement on the running light, 3cp to 3cp. BUT it is a longer life bulb. Rated life is 2,000 hours on the brake light and 10,000 hours on the running light.

 

I then put 2357A bulbs in all of the turn signal housings, but I had to remove one of the indexing pins from them. IIRC the front and rear required different pin removal so CHECK it before you do it!!! I used a pair of small diagonal cutting pliers and cleaned it up with a file.

 

If my math is correct I had a 35% increase in light output on the turn signals and a 36% increase in light output on the front running lights.

 

Total cost: $9.40 (minus 10% as my local auto parts store gives a military discount) plus sales tax. WOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!! this is for two packages of two 2357A bulbs and one package of two 2357 bulbs, so I have a spare brake/tail lamp. I will try to give it to one of my H-D riding friends.

 

 

So the upgrade cost me less than $10 which is quite a few dollars less than even one LED board and as an added plus they available at all auto parts stores so I did not have to pay for shipping and wait for the brown truck to arrive. Almost instant gratification.

 

I have not seen where the LED boards list the light output (if you know this, please point it out), so I cannot compare the output levels with my inexpensive bulbs until I park next to someone with the LEDs in their bike.

 

The LEDs have a longer life span.

 

The LEDs also have a sharper on and off curve, which should make you more visible when using your brakes or turn signals.

 

The LEDs require you put in a load resistor so your turn signals flash at the normal rate (there goes the power savings), or you must find an electronic flasher unit, at an additional cost, which I have not yet found but they must be made by somebody.

 

 

With the money I did not spend on the LED boards, I will put that to my first set of replacement tires.........or buy several tanks of gas.

 

 

Your comments are requested.

 

 

UPDATE #1:

 

I found two other bulbs that will work as tail lights, but not in the turn signals without changing the lenses as they are not offered in amber.

 

The first is the 3496. It offers 43 CP on high and 3 CP on low. On high it yields a 31.25% increase over stock 1157 at 32 CP verses a 25% increase for the 2357LL at 40 CP but at a cost... they only have a rated live of 600 hours on the bright filament and 5,000 hours on the low, verses the 2357LL with 2,000 on the bright filament and 10,000 on the low.... also locally they are priced at $3.59 per bulb while the 2357LL are priced at $3.44 for two bulbs.... To me, the increased output of 3 CP over the 2357LL is not worth the shorter service life.

 

 

The second bulb is the H1157 offered by Candlepower (Which is owned by Daniel Stern) (the H is for Halogen)and probably made by Narva. It has a 107 CP bright filament, and a 25 CP low filament!!!!!! But don't run off an buy them yet!!!!!

 

Compared to the 1157 or 2357LL bulb the bright filament is 234% and 168% brighter respectively, but all that light comes at a cost. Only 400 hours service life and all the heat it produces MIGHT melt your tail light housing. Sorry, but I'm not going to test it on my bike!!!!!! OH and now for the bad news, they are priced at $10.35 plus shipping.... each....

 

The big draw back IMHO is the MUCH brighter running light. It puts out a whopping 25 CP which could be confused for a brake light by some drivers.... this running light is 733% brighter than all the other lamps!!!!!!

 

Like I said, I will not be trying this lamp, but if you do, please provide some feedback!!!!!

 

 

UPDATE #2:

 

I have put the 3496 bulbs in the brake and turn signals on the rear and they are working fine!!!!!!!!! To bad the 3496 does not come in amber..... or I would use them in the front of this bike.

 

 

UPDATE #3

 

I installed a 15" LED stop light under my trunk. I got it from Innovative Light in the factory seconds section HERE for under $8.... plus shipping. I got the slimline in red with retroreflective accents..... not in stock as of this posting but you can check them from time to time.

 

 

UPDATE #4

 

This breaks the Poor mans tip but I replaced the stop/tail light with the Street Magic 100 LED Genesis II LED Tail Light from Custom Dynamics HERE and I am impressed!!!!! quick on and off time, wide viewing angle and it is BRIGHT, but it does break the bank........at $90 when I got it.....

Edited December 10, 2010 by KiteSquid
Add info for the 3496 and H1157 bulbs.

[Dano]

Informative article, Kite. I am going to try some LEDs we use in the sign business on my bike (free) and will have to look at the resistor thingy. Don't know if I'll have to use it as these work directly off of 12 volt power supply, instantaneously. Will let you know, but it'll be a while for I get a chance to try. WIll look at the bulbs you used, though.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Hey Kite...I can just about GARR-UN-TEE that the LEDS are brighter...the secret is :

 

Optics.

 

When you pull the lenses off the 2nd gen Ventures, you will notice there is very little reflectivity to the interior, especially the brake/tail housing. Most other bikes, and I know my Harley is like this, have a reflector in there to focus most of the light rearward. The Venture lacks this, and so a lot of the light is just wasted.

 

Lots of other bikes and all cars on the road dont have this issue, because the manufacturer puts in a reflective parabolic coating under the bulb...Yamaha did not.

 

The LED modules use optically pre-focused LED elements, that put most of the light where it will do the most good, in the following driver's eyes.

 

So, even though you raise the candle power, you dont increase the brake light output to the rear by very much..and the running light, by none at all apparently.

 

My backside is worth the expense of the LED's!

 

 

 

[a1bummer]

I believe this site give the info your looking for.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/mini-wedge.html

 

Lumen to Candle power

Divide the number of lumens you have produced, or are capable of producing, by 12.57 and you get the candlepower equivalent of that light source.

According to this sight anyway.

http://www.theledlight.com/lumens.html

[KiteSquid]

GREAT, thanks for the conversion factor.

 

Clikcing around that page I find 1157 and 1156 output to be Single LED Luminous Intentsdy 5300 Millicandelas (mcd) over a 35 degree pattern.

 

5300 x 30 is 159000 mcd or 46.238 lumens or 3.678440731901352426412092283214 cp, so even the factory bulb have a higher light output than the 30 LED bulbs, if my math is correct. HOWEVER, like I stated in my first post, I do leave a side by side comparrison is in order.

 

 

However I still cannot find the Lumen or CP listed for the boards that replace the 1157 tail lamp bulb.

 

Or if the board sellers would list the model number of the LEDs used, we could go to the LED manufactures data sheets to calculate the amount of light output.

 

 

As an example, but there are other sources for LED boards for the RSV, these I found easily. Please feel free to post other examples to include shipping and light output (if you can find it)

 

SO if I choose the Right angle 1157/1156 replacement bulbs from Super Bright LEDs HERE for the front and rear of my bike, that would be $9.95 x 4 = $39.80 plus four tail light load resisters at $4.95 each for $19.80 plus shipping $5 (estimated by their web site) for a subtotal for $64.60

 

And then go to Custom Dynamics HERE and purchase their brake/tail light/license plate light board for $59.95 plus $8.25 shipping, for a subtotal of $68.20

 

with a total of $132.80 invested in lights and the time to install the load resisters so my tun signals will flash at an acceptable rate, that I don't know how bright they actually are, or the pattern of light output, I can convert my RSV to LED auxiliary light.

 

Or I can follow the model in my first post for $10 and have a known light output.

 

It is a difficult decision for me. but my my example of using bulbs vice LEDs is more of a poor mans modification.

 

Just an example, use it if you want.

[a1bummer]

I don't much like the prices much either. Especially when I don't know if I will be happy with the end product. I'm one of those who like to see things with his own eyes and touch things before I fork out my cash. I've been using any info on the net to get an idea if it would be better If I made my lights myself. So far in my spare time, I'm just working on a couple simple prototypes for the auxiliary lights with the wedge type bulbs and turn signals for my 84. The right signal will blink from left to right and the left blink from right to left. I have a working prototype for the turn signals. But it only has 10 LEDs that blink in sequence. I want to go to with about 30-40 ultrabright LEDs. By using capacitors and transistors I get very low power draw and brightly lit LEDs. I'll keep ya guys posted

[KiteSquid]

I too would like to tinker with my own LED boards, but I have way too many irons in the fire right now.....

 

Please keep us posted!!! If you can design a kit for us that would bring the cost of LED lighting down to reasonabal levels, I would get them!!!!!

[a1bummer]

That was a thought that went through my wee little brain. I see some of the prices of the accessories for bikes and can't help but wonder... Why can't I just make it myself? The cost of the tools needed could be recovered if I mass produced and sold what I made at cheaper prices than what you find on eBay. Then there's simply making blueprints and letting someone with all the tools and space do the work for me. At least that's what my plan is so far with some mod parts I've come up with for a remote controlled truck I have.

[Double D]

KiteSquid, Where did you buy your bulbs? AutoZone and Advanced auto do not list them.

[KiteSquid]

right off the peg at my local Advance auto parts store.

 

Try searching for 2357 as the 2357LL should come up in the search.

 

OR click HERE to go to Advance auto parts web sit of the 2357LL bulb BTW the Parts America site is also for Checker, Schucks, Kragen and Murray's Auto Parts chains. apparently they are all one big company....

 

OR click HERE for Auto Zone's web site for the 2357LL bulb Punch in your zip for local availability.

 

 

Punch in 2357A into their respective sites for the Amber bulb.....etc.

 

 

here is a photo of the 2357A from the Parts Americal web site... (NOT to scale!!!!!!)

http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/img/syl/4613538055_bulb.jpg

 

IF anyone else tries out these bulbs, PLEASE provide some feedback here.... good or bad!!!!!!

Edited May 16, 2008 by KiteSquid

[Double D]

Thanks, not sure why it would not come up when I did the search for the 2357LL. Another question, I am replacing my clear lens on the rear to red to match the Harley lights that I have. Is the 2357 the same bulb execpt that it is clear?

Edited May 12, 2008 by Double D

[KiteSquid]

2357 is Clear

 

2357LL is the same bulb but in a Krypton confrguation. It puts out white light, but it should last a lot longer. BUY the 2357LL over the 2357, the small price increase is worth the longer service life!

 

 

2357A is the Amber (yellow) coated 2357. It puts out less overall light as the amber coating filters out some of the light, so it looks yellow for the turnsignals behind the clear lenses.

 

 

I would recomend you put in 2357LL bulbs under all your colored lenses.

Edited May 16, 2008 by KiteSquid

[KiteSquid]

If you have been following this thread, I have updated the first post with information on the 3496 and H1157 bubls.

 

Thanks for reading and PLEASE provide feedback!!!!!

[MAINEAC]

The LEDs require you put in a load resistor so your turn signals flash at the normal rate (there goes the power savings), or you must find an electronic flasher unit, at an additional cost, which I have not yet found but they must be made by somebody.

 

You only lose the power savings while your turn signals are flashing... At all other times there is a power savings... I don't know about you but my turn signals are flashing a small percent of the time I'm riding.

[KiteSquid]

Yes Sir, you are correct!!!!!!

 

 

I was just listing options load resistors. I don't like using load resistors as they put off quite a bit of heat so you need to be careful where you mount them.

 

I don't know why Yamaha did not install electronic flashers in the first place. If I were to speculate, I would have to say the primary reason is probably unit cost, a secondary reason could be to minimize the number of unique parts they have to purchase and warehouse for repairs.

 

Yamaha did a good job at keeping the price of the 2nd gen RSV at a reasonable level (except, IMHO, for the 2009 model year due to the installation of the 6 disc CD changer..)

[doug radford]

hey guys ,sence you guys were talking about lights i just put a set of aftermarket passing lights and turn signals on my 06 rsv,so remembering i had a extra set of turn signals that had duel element bulbs i just replaced the rear ones with the front ones and ran the extra wire to the running light side of the taillight,i already have the led light thats under the trunk but this just adds a little more,i don't think you can get to much light in the rear-thanks for the tons of imfo i pick up on here this is my first rsv and i've learned alot reading this forum

[Yammer Dan]

Good Info in this one!!

[vtwinr]

I did a "Poor Man's" LED accessory brake light on my present VT1100C2 at the sissy bar and it sure didn't cost me much. I bought one LED auto cluster bulb at Walmart, carefully split up the LED's separately, wired them into a piece of dielectric, chromed faced plastic sheet in a "V" configuration, set a piece of fluorescent ceiling light diffuse panel over them, and finally covered this with a dress insert of arched, Toastmaster toaster (!!!) chromed steel side panel. Works great:

 

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/hlaltimus/SissyBarLEDlight002.jpg

[doug radford]

thats a good job on that,looks great

[Uturn]

This is good info on the lighting options. I see the 1157LL is clear and if you used in the newer turn signal, would need changing the lenses to color ones. I used to buy paint at the parts store in red or amber. Haven't checked, but don't they sell this any longer? Thanks for the research.

 

MIKE aka Uturn

 

[skydoc_17]

I changed all turn signal bulbs to LED's and added LED strips to a few other places on the rear of my 87' VR. I have a set of pics in "My Albums" that show the placement of the load resistors for the turn signals. I have attached a pic of the results and more pics and a description of the install are in my profile. I didn't use a circut board and with careful shopping I did the entire light swap for about $50.00 give or take a few $$. I am actually adding another "running light" LED strip and an LED "brake light" strip this weekend and will add the lighting pics to "my albums" when completed.

I didn't spend a lot of time calculating candle power but used the "by eye" method. If I plugged in the LED and it was brighter, I used it. I would like to add that the use of the LED's decreased the power consumption from the battery HUGELY! Actavation of the brake lights barely shows on my amp gage now as apposed to the MAJOR DRAW the old 1157 bulbs put on the charging system.

Just My Thoughts,

Earl

[Cousin Dave]

I might be a bit late to this thread but I installed a LED turn,run,brake convrsion kit on my RSV. I belieive it looks brighter, although it might be the result of being focased better as stated earlier in this thread. The bulbs though brighter probably use more power, which is a commodity on the all Yammies not to mention running hotter.

The kit I used was about $70 delivered to Ontario Canada. Took about 2 hours to install. I also put a couple of lt pods(Walmart) $20 In the signal cct and found a third brake lt. in the wrecking yard for $10 added a .10 cent resistor on it and double fed it from the signal and brake cct's for more light. The hardest part of this Mod is installing the lamps eg. making brackets etc. I would be happy to share my installation including the wiring as best as I can for anyone interested and provide pics etc.

This is the kit I used an a link for a video of the lights. It looks a bit orange but in reallity it is red. Th day light video is poor but again it's a crappy camera.

This is just my install and not meant to bash anyone of us. Espeacially the fine upstanding bikers in our group

Cousin Dave

 

http://www.electricalconnection.com/other-lighting/tsk-star&sport.htm

 

[ame=http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/cc276/hotx2/Venture/?action=view&current=Bikelights018.flv]Venture :: Run Turn Signal Lts video by hotx2 - Photobucket[/ame]

 

[ame=http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/cc276/hotx2/Venture/?action=view&current=RrLtsDaylite001.flv]Venture :: RrLtsDaylite001.flv video by hotx2 - Photobucket[/ame]

[a1bummer]

This is the progress i've made on my lights so far. In case you may not have seen it elsewhere on the site.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32159

[KiteSquid]

Most of LED kits are kinda expensive, or at least the ones I'v seen....

 

can you do the brake lamp and all turn signals/running lamps in bright LEDs for under $20????

[a1bummer]

I wish! But I can build what I want for less than those ready made setups cost. I also know that these will be unique.