Lifter Cam Issue on my SVTC

[StarVentureRider]

I started noticing more top end clatter checked valve clearance found front cylinder lifters not pumped up. pulled lifters found intake lifter scored along with cam lobe.

Intake lifter not turning in bore. yamaha replaced cams and lifters noise was still there. Is back apart and by the pattern on lifters the same lifter is not turning.

The bike has 6600 miles I have a small Yamaha dealership but do not sell bikes anymore. Have been working on bikes for 30 years

[ChiefGunner]

I started noticing more top end clatter checked valve clearance found front cylinder lifters not pumped up. pulled lifters found intake lifter scored along with cam lobe.

Intake lifter not turning in bore. yamaha replaced cams and lifters noise was still there. Is back apart and by the pattern on lifters the same lifter is not turning.

The bike has 6600 miles I have a small Yamaha dealership but do not sell bikes anymore. Have been working on bikes for 30 years

Hi Chuck, I had that happen to mine back at around 7500 miles or so. Yamaha dealership apparently fixed mine right the first time as I now have over 15k miles on it with no further issues. However I did upgrade the oil to a full synthetic with Esther since then. Running YamaLube 20w-50 but some very sound science as well as oil reports make a great case for need of ZDDP due to the use of a flat tappet/cam setup on this bike and that it is acting against 2 valve springs not one. I have an oil change coming up in less than 1k miles and will be upgrading to Redline Motorcycle Oul 10w-40. Not cheap but had great ZDDP numbers as well as being an actual Goup V oil with esther.

 

Im surprised at your post. Just for clarification, are you saying they had to tear into your bike twice? Go through the threads here on the Venture.. I posted pics of my damaged lifter and cam. Let me know if that’s what you saw. Mine occurred in the rear cylinder.

[ventureplumber18]

I started noticing more top end clatter checked valve clearance found front cylinder lifters not pumped up. pulled lifters found intake lifter scored along with cam lobe.

Intake lifter not turning in bore. yamaha replaced cams and lifters noise was still there. Is back apart and by the pattern on lifters the same lifter is not turning.

The bike has 6600 miles I have a small Yamaha dealership but do not sell bikes anymore. Have been working on bikes for 30 years

My cam wore a hole in my lifter at 3200 miles.I posted this a few months back in late july.Yamaha replaced it all .runs great still does not sound that good.MECHANIC SAID EVERYTHING ELSE LOOKED PERFECT.I think these motor do not sound good.it just is what it is,in my opinion.Stand by the exhaust to grt the good sound,not by the motor.

[StarVentureRider]

Hi Chuck, I had that happen to mine back at around 7500 miles or so. Yamaha dealership apparently fixed mine right the first time as I now have over 15k miles on it with no further issues. However I did upgrade the oil to a full synthetic with Esther since then. Running YamaLube 20w-50 but some very sound science as well as oil reports make a great case for need of ZDDP due to the use of a flat tappet/cam setup on this bike and that it is acting against 2 valve springs not one. I have an oil change coming up in less than 1k miles and will be upgrading to Redline Motorcycle Oul 10w-40. Not cheap but had great ZDDP numbers as well as being an actual Goup V oil with esther.

 

Im surprised at your post. Just for clarification, are you saying they had to tear into your bike twice? Go through the threads here on the Venture.. I posted pics of my damaged lifter and cam. Let me know if that’s what you saw. Mine occurred in the rear cylinder.

 

my lifter was not near as bad as yours, mine was scored a little on bottom from not rotating in lifter bore. cams and lifters were put in set valves to 0 clearance , ran engine

and still had more top end noise than i thought should be there. I rode down the road at about 20mph at about 2000 rpm and just seems to have more chatter on top than

another venture I rode. so Idecided to double check what was just done and found front cylinder intake lifter not rotating.yamaha has not gotten back to me for an idea of

what to do next

[RRien07]

my lifter was not near as bad as yours, mine was scored a little on bottom from not rotating in lifter bore. cams and lifters were put in set valves to 0 clearance , ran engine

and still had more top end noise than i thought should be there. I rode down the road at about 20mph at about 2000 rpm and just seems to have more chatter on top than

another venture I rode. so Idecided to double check what was just done and found front cylinder intake lifter not rotating.yamaha has not gotten back to me for an idea of

what to do next

 

Mine had 4.600 on it, exhaust valve had a big hole in it, intakes showed ware.

Brings we’re stuck in open exhaust.

Mall parts where sent back to Yamaha.

 

I think i see a treand with this bike.

I for one am not happy with it and will be looking at my options to dump this Junk as quickly as I can.

I have only taken it on one long ride, if it can’t take the desert heat they should cool it better.

Just knowing I am not alone in this makes me feel a little better.

[cowpuc]

Mine had 4.600 on it, exhaust valve had a big hole in it, intakesdoe showed ware.

Brings we’re stuck in open exhaust.

Mall parts where sent back to Yamaha.

 

I think i see a treand with this bike.

I for one am not happy with it and will be looking at my options to dump this Junk as quickly as can.

I have only taken it on one long ride, if it can’t take the desert heat they should cool it better.

Just knowing I am not alone in this makes me feel a little better.

 

With prices in the tank on new left overs (effecting resale value) and gobs of left overs out there to be had it might be in your favor to hold on until the 2020's are released to see if Mom Yam does in fact make the design change that is being chatted about = roller lifters. If that does happen there is a really good chance that the updated parts will interchange into your bike..

 

Quick question for you RR.. What is a "Bring"?

[RRien07]

With prices in the tank on new left overs (effecting resale value) and gobs of left overs out there to be had it might be in your favor to hold on until the 2020's are released to see if Mom Yam does in fact make the design change that is being chatted about = roller lifters. If that does happen there is a really good chance that the updated parts will interchange into your bike..

 

Quick question for you RR.. What is a "Bring"?

 

Forgive me, I type with my thumbs on an iPhone with that stupid Autocorrect. My exhaust Springs where stuck open.

 

Yes, you are correct in your statement about slow sells, I found the exact same bike reduced 5K still on the showroom floor.

I do still love the bike, the ride and handling is really nice. I really like the over all look and layout of everything as well. I just don’t know if I can trust this engine for the long haul. That is why I will be letting it go before my warranty is up.

I called Yamaha Customer support yesterday and asked if they where aware of any recalls on it yet, reading all of the different forums you can see that there is an issue out there with this engine, yet they keep covering it with the same parts, not a redesign of the head, or anything else that my shop could see. So what’s to keep it from happening again in 5K or even in 50k?

i just not willing to take on that experience and nothing from Yamaha says the will continue to cover the issue once the warranty period is over.

[cowpuc]

Forgive me, I type with my thumbs on an iPhone with that stupid Autocorrect. My exhaust Springs where stuck open.

 

Yes, you are correct in your statement about slow sells, I found the exact same bike reduced 5K still on the showroom floor.

I do still love the bike, the ride and handling is really nice. I really like the over all look and layout of everything as well. I just don’t know if I can trust this engine for the long haul. That is why I will be letting it go before my warranty is up.

I called Yamaha Customer support yesterday and asked if they where aware of any recalls on it yet, reading all of the different forums you can see that there is an issue out there with this engine, yet they keep covering it with the same parts, not a redesign of the head, or anything else that my shop could see. So what’s to keep it from happening again in 5K or even in 50k?

i just not willing to take on that experience and nothing from Yamaha says the will continue to cover the issue once the warranty period is over.

 

On the other hand, Yamaha really is a stand up company.. Matter of fact, they are #1 in customer satisfaction as far as motorcycles go (according to the internet poll voices). I know when we rode the bikes out at Sturgis a couple years ago and got to see an actual engine cutaway (see vid), I did notice they had chosen to go metal to metal on the lifter/cam interface and actually questioned the techs there about it. I found it interesting cause king of v-twins Harley has been using roller lifters for many years due to issues with early model bikes with the design Yamaha had chosen. The factory techs at Sturgis had no real definitive answer as to how Yamaha had over come the issues that HD had seen that caused them to go rollers but they did say that Yamaha did figure it out..

In talking with guys in the backroom at our local dealership now I am told that Yamaha is fully aware of the ongoing issues that riders of the '18 are experiencing. My advice would be to follow your manual in oil selection/maintenance schedule and dont get to caught up in making changes by Internet advice. Use the oils that Yamaha suggests, give them no room to wiggle during your Warranty service time that way if you have problems on the road you wont be at a dealerships descretion of how it all will be handled. I also know from yakkin with those same guys that Yamaha is also a ways behind in updating their Info system to work as advertised. That was/is one of the big sell points for the scoot. All that combined tells me (just another IMHO though) that something big in updates is coming on the stage two, 2020, SVTC/Eluder..

I got a gut feeling to off a used one now would cost big bucks as new left over T.C. SVTC's can be had for under 20.. May as just ride it and give Mom Yam a chance to get her bearings (roller bearings) and have a chance to make the necessary changes.. My

[Patch]

Forgive me, I type with my thumbs on an iPhone with that stupid Autocorrect. My exhaust Springs where stuck open.

 

 

Not trying to claim I know what is going on but,,, the above suggests valve stem guides???

The other curious read is lifter not rotating/turning..

 

One thing I can think of that may cause both is stiction So the question is why?

 

Now I know there are friction modifiers but again warranty may prevent there use,, look into the fine print..

Still even if it were this simple a problem why would they design so tight a tolerance?

 

For the record if I were facing these problems I would likely use a modifier.

[BlueSky]

Man, I hate to hear about this problem. Lots of riders like V-twins. Hope they come up with a permanent recall on this problem.

[RRien07]

Not trying to claim I know what is going on but,,, the above suggests valve stem guides???

The other curious read is lifter not rotating/turning..

 

One thing I can think of that may cause both is stiction So the question is why?

 

Now I know there are friction modifiers but again warranty may prevent there use,, look into the fine print..

Still even if it were this simple a problem why would they design so tight a tolerance?

 

For the record if I were facing these problems I would likely use a modifier.

 

There where a number of items that failed on my bike, I will try to post them later on this weekend. Over a grand in parts alone and over 13 hours by the mechanic.

i was coming home from LA sitting in LA Traffic 🤮 when I started to hear something different about the motor, a load ticking sound, like the valves where knocking, from there I noticed that my exceleration was considerably slower. I continue west until I noticed that my fuel was really going down fast. I pulled off the freeway and then the bike died at the signal light. Pushing that bike up hill a 1/4 mile was not much fun.

Oh and Yamaha Tow is absurd. $50. Good luck getting a flat tow for that amount of money.

I used my AAA Plus to tow it to my local shop who once again had it for three weeks.

This bike spends more time in the shop then it does on the highway, reminds me of my ex-wife and her time in the mall, an other horror story and not going there.

This has just been my experience, still love the ride and I have been on it everyday since I got it back.

So far I have not had any issues, keeping my fingers crossed.

 

As for your suggestion on after market mods, no thanks, when I spend this kind of money I expect it to work, it is not, they fix it, it breaks, they fix it again. I just wonÂ’t be purchasing this bike again. I will hang on to it for a little while longer, but for me I think I will go with something that is more dependable. I know that there is a bike out there that works as designed, and with limited issues, this bike just is not it, as least not now. The funny thing is that I was a part of a survey on the bike, they wanted to know what made me make the choice to buy it. If they asked again today, I would not have given the same answers. Yamaha has really failed for me on this bike.

Heres the strange part, you would think that they would be able to see that this issue is not a random issue, I see it by all the post out here. Such a disappointment.

Those of you who have not had the issues, I wish you all the best, but if you start to hear a ticking in the head, or smell gas out your exhaust, shut it down, tow it in, thatÂ’s what started mine. My problem happened in less then 30 miles after hearing that sound. Hope that this information will help other.

[RRien07]

On the other hand, Yamaha really is a stand up company.. Matter of fact, they are #1 in customer satisfaction as far as motorcycles go (according to the internet poll voices). I know when we rode the bikes out at Sturgis a couple years ago and got to see an actual engine cutaway (see vid), I did notice they had chosen to go metal to metal on the lifter/cam interface and actually questioned the techs there about it. I found it interesting cause king of v-twins Harley has been using roller lifters for many years due to issues with early model bikes with the design Yamaha had chosen. The factory techs at Sturgis had no real definitive answer as to how Yamaha had overcome the issues that HD had seen that caused them to go rollers but they did say that Yamaha did figure it out..

In talking with guys in the backroom at our local dealership now I am told that Yamaha is fully aware of the ongoing issues that riders of the '18 are experiencing. My advice would be to follow your manual in oil selection/maintenance schedule and don't get too caught up in making changes by Internet advice. Use the oils that Yamaha suggests, give them no room to wiggle during your Warranty service time that way if you have problems on the road you won't be at a dealerships description of how it all will be handled. I also know from yakkin with those same guys that Yamaha is also a ways behind in updating their Info system to work as advertised. That was/is one of the big sell points for the scoot. All that combined tells me (just another IMHO though) that something big in updates is coming on the stage two, 2020, SVTC/Eluder..

I got a gut feeling to off a used one now would cost big bucks as new left over T.C. SVTC's can be had for under 20.. May as just ride it and give Mom Yam a chance to get her bearings (roller bearings) and have a chance to make the necessary changes.. My

 

Agreed, Yamaha has always outperformed for me with all of my past purchases, in fact, my VStar 1100 is still running strong. I also am hoping that they will come out with a recall on this and other issues. I too believe that if they did that it would help them in their slow and sluggish sales of the bikes.

But will they do it? or will they just scrap it and cut their losses, I for one hope that they come up with a fix.

 

I will be heading to the MC Convention when the Yamaha Rep's and designer is back in town, I actually got to meet the lead designer of the bike at the convention a few years back.

[Patch]

To be clear I am on record as saying that I would only recommend factory recommended parts, service and lubes, at least while under warranty.

In your shoes I would be disappointed as well!

[cowpuc]

To be clear I am on record as saying that I would only recommend factory recommended parts, service and lubes, at least while under warranty.

In your shoes I would be disappointed as well!

 

I'm with ya Patch, while some dealerships are VERY laid back and stand behind the customer 100% when it comes to getting warranties honored,, there is always the chance of bumping into a not so user friendly dealer if your out CTFW across America and have one of those ahhhhh ohhh moments.. Our new car, that we paid cash for so we dont have the luxury of having a Credit joint standing behind any claims, has a 10 year, 100k full warranty on it - I follow the OEM owners manual spec stuff to a "T" and keep receipts in the glove box showing exactly what oil/filter I have been using. I even use recommended brand of oil (they spec Quaker 0-20 full synthetic = I buy at Menards when on sale and rebate discount so 3 bucks a quart- got 80,000 worth of oil supply built up at this time ).. It's just simply not worth the risk doing experiments with oils and such when dealing with warranty honoring IMHO. To easy for some dealership to say SORRY - YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE BY THE BOOK! I know that many people think the dealerships/factory cannot legally not honor a warranty as long as you use a compatible/comparible product BUT,, I have seen wayyy to much of large corporations doing exactly that and saying see us in court where they KNOW they will wayy better Lawyers (they have a full time staff or Attorneys where you or I end up with bottom feeders) and know they will either win or just pay a small fine to support the legal industry.. Just not worth the hassle.

Dont know if you remember this one or not but years ago when Polaris first introed the Victory, those first year bikes had MAJOR tranny issues. Polaris did finally make the design changes necessary (they outsourced the new design, cost em big but they got a good product for the $$$) after the first in house attempt was such a failure BUT, instead of standing behind the product they chose to blow off the intial buyers problems and lots of folks were stuck with junk that they paid big money for and watched the bikes become worthless even with full warranties still on em = a nightmare:doh:.. Here's a Wiki report on that disaster= it does happen:

 

""The 1999 and 2000 Victory models experienced serious transmission problems, even with bikes with considerably less than 10,000 miles. This has been corrected with minor revisions in 2001 and a complete redesign in 2002. But, according to Wikipedia, Polaris was aware of the problem with the false neutral transmission from the beginning, and yet – Polaris did not correct the transmissions in the 1999 and 2000 models and to date has not supported the owners of those bikes by replacing an apparently faulty design."""

[Patch]

Yep and remember the Vega?? The best of them had 289's lol

 

Amsoil use to promise that they would stand behind any warranty issue if their product was blamed for engine failure/ware... Not sure if they still do but it was once a bill part of their promise.

 

What I don't get is reading that the exhaust valves stay open ,which means the springs stay compressed! I know you mentioned they are using single coils,,, and, for low rpm machines that isn't a negative as the benefits are not hard to realize... But if as was said the lifters are wearing, well then so to must the cam lobs so, it is easy to come up with the question as to where is that resistance coming from? If the valves are sticking then what else can stop a valve spring from returning to valve to seat,,, outside of the guide seizing to the stem? Unless the exhaust valve material is defective and they are expanding past design expectations?? No better time for that to happen then in traffic and likely the rear jug??

 

So yes as was mentioned if the rider smells a strong gas odor then certainly this poses a risk even a potential for fire within the exhaust system. Here's what I think could happen; there being 2 cams with a fuel injection system monitoring crank rotation and position then the injector continues to time in/on even tho there is no compression and, the plug even tho wet will still fire and, may light the fuel which will burn slow do to no compression, then be pump out on the exhaust stroke and into the pipes...

 

I would like to read thru the shop manual to get a better idea of her design...hmmm

Very disappointing so looking forward to Yam's silver lining..

[cowpuc]

Yep and remember the Vega?? The best of them had 289's lol

 

Amsoil use to promise that they would stand behind any warranty issue if their product was blamed for engine failure/ware... Not sure if they still do but it was once a bill part of their promise.

 

What I don't get is reading that the exhaust valves stay open ,which means the springs stay compressed! I know you mentioned they are using single coils,,, and, for low rpm machines that isn't a negative as the benefits are not hard to realize... But if as was said the lifters are wearing, well then so to must the cam lobs so, it is easy to come up with the question as to where is that resistance coming from? If the valves are sticking then what else can stop a valve spring from returning to valve to seat,,, outside of the guide seizing to the stem? Unless the exhaust valve material is defective and they are expanding past design expectations?? No better time for that to happen then in traffic and likely the rear jug??

 

So yes as was mentioned if the rider smells a strong gas odor then certainly this poses a risk even a potential for fire within the exhaust system. Here's what I think could happen; there being 2 cams with a fuel injection system monitoring crank rotation and position then the injector continues to time in/on even tho there is no compression and, the plug even tho wet will still fire and, may light the fuel which will burn slow do to no compression, then be pump out on the exhaust stroke and into the pipes...

 

I would like to read thru the shop manual to get a better idea of her design...hmmm

Very disappointing so looking forward to Yam's silver lining..

 

There pushrod motors and each push rod is opening 2 valves. I wonder if Mom Yam opted for tighter tolerances on the lifters to compensate for opting out of the more expensive roller design and is having issues with the lifters being tight in the towers they ride in. I have heard rumors that part of the failure problems is galling between the cam lob and lifter bottom which, in my guesstimation from playing with old HD's (before HD went roller) is a sign of lack of rotation of the lifter to maintain the convex of the lifter bottom as it operates on the face of the cam lobe. If this is what is happening, IMHO, getting hot is not gonna be its friend and galling across those surfaces can easily translate to lifter siezure which in turn could hold the valves open. A good indicator of this happening, again = IMHO, would be to take a peek at the snagged valves and see if its both of them that are being operated by a single pushrod that are staying open or if its just one. If its one valve then it definitely is valve stem/guide/seat/keeper/spring related somehow.. If both valves then it is entirely possible that the whole matter is still lifter related..

[Patch]

There pushrod motors and each push rod is opening 2 valves. I wonder if Mom Yam opted for tighter tolerances on the lifters to compensate for opting out of the more expensive roller design and is having issues with the lifters being tight in the towers they ride in. I have heard rumors that part of the failure problems is galling between the cam lob and lifter bottom which, in my guesstimation from playing with old HD's (before HD went roller) is a sign of lack of rotation of the lifter to maintain the convex of the lifter bottom as it operates on the face of the cam lobe. If this is what is happening, IMHO, getting hot is not gonna be its friend and galling across those surfaces can easily translate to lifter siezure which in turn could hold the valves open. A good indicator of this happening, again = IMHO, would be to take a peek at the snagged valves and see if its both of them that are being operated by a single pushrod that are staying open or if its just one. If its one valve then it definitely is valve stem/guide/seat/keeper/spring related somehow.. If both valves then it is entirely possible that the whole matter is still lifter related..

 

Holly Puc we agree!

[cowpuc]

Holly Puc we agree!

 

now THAT is a rarety,, two lop eared back yard gear head varmints in agreement

 

Something else, dont know how much you been following all this unfold since the release of this new one but a good while back there was another varmint on here (hasnt been on in a while) who was promoting using oils with special additives to compensate for wear between the lobe and valve face surfaces. There is another person on youtube suggesting the same (I will see if I can find his vid and post it here) and I can see the rationale behind the idea. The only thing is, IMHO, using such additives to compensate for one issue like this may be the answer for this specific issue but there is sooooo much more happening inside of an engine like this (everything from ring land lube to valve guide lube and even clutch plate surfaces if the engine shares oil with the tranny) that introducing modifiers into environments that are not user friendly to those modifiers could be disatorous. That scenario is why I still think sticking with OEM specs and following the manual is probably the better alternative.

[cowpuc]

Here is the youtube video I was referring to = IMHO = not a good plan, especially on a $30000 scoot that is still under warranty.. I TOTALLY get the "lets fix it ourselves" philosophy (been a way of life for varmints like you and I Patch) but not necessarily so when dealing with a new bike under full warranty for most people,, especially if you tend to be money concious,,, if your loaded like a Jay Leno = who cares ...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3-xwPNaZhw&feature=youtu.be

[cowpuc]

Yep and remember the Vega?? The best of them had 289's lol

 

Amsoil use to promise that they would stand behind any warranty issue if their product was blamed for engine failure/ware... Not sure if they still do but it was once a bill part of their promise.

 

What I don't get is reading that the exhaust valves stay open ,which means the springs stay compressed! I know you mentioned they are using single coils,,, and, for low rpm machines that isn't a negative as the benefits are not hard to realize... But if as was said the lifters are wearing, well then so to must the cam lobs so, it is easy to come up with the question as to where is that resistance coming from? If the valves are sticking then what else can stop a valve spring from returning to valve to seat,,, outside of the guide seizing to the stem? Unless the exhaust valve material is defective and they are expanding past design expectations?? No better time for that to happen then in traffic and likely the rear jug??

 

So yes as was mentioned if the rider smells a strong gas odor then certainly this poses a risk even a potential for fire within the exhaust system. Here's what I think could happen; there being 2 cams with a fuel injection system monitoring crank rotation and position then the injector continues to time in/on even tho there is no compression and, the plug even tho wet will still fire and, may light the fuel which will burn slow do to no compression, then be pump out on the exhaust stroke and into the pipes...

 

I would like to read thru the shop manual to get a better idea of her design...hmmm

Very disappointing so looking forward to Yam's silver lining..

 

Oh yea,, I remember the Vega's real well!! Had a good buddy who bought a brand new one.. I use to tell him I could actually see the engine change in demensions while it warmed up and cooled off :rotf:

What a pile of,,, well, you brought it to the round table of discussion here so you obviously know exactly what kind of pile it was:guitarist 2:

We do agree on something else Patch,, those Vega's did run REALLY well with a small block Ford planted in them though

[khaledusa]

I have a new star venture TC only with 1200 miles 2018 I took it to the dealer. I had a little knock on the engine. it's still under warranty. of the 5 years. They tell me that carbon in the valves. I had to adjust but that did not solve anything. then now they inform me that it may be the camshaft. that they are going to try to see that yamaha recognizes the repair. There should be consumer protection where someone has gone through this