Stubborn Forks

[oldandcrotchety]

OK, what have I done wrong or not done at all? I am attempting to replace the forks seals in my '83. I have gone according to the tech article and have gotten to the point where I pull (pound) the bottom forks off, and I can't get them to budge. Everything else that was in the article is done. The oil drained, 10mm cap screws removed from bottom of forks, upper assembly and springs, dust caps and retainer clips...but when i try doing the slide hammer technique it is like hitting solid steel. What exactly is it that is still holding the bottom forks on that I am pounding against? I even tried putting a 2x6 on the front axle bolt and pounding on that with a large hammer, but I'm at the point that I'm afraid I'm going to bend or break something. Is there something that was not listed in the tech article that I don't know about? One other thing, well actually two. One, (assuming I ever get them forks off) the replacement seal says: "oil side" on one side and "air side" on the other. Is the oil side the bottom and air side the top? and two: Do you put the new fork oil in the top of the upper tube last after everything but the top tube caps is done? I can pound a little harder if I won't break anything, but already I am raising the back tire off the floor with each stroke. Any thoughts for this old hillbilly?

[muffinman]

If you have the 10 mm bolt and the upper snap ring removed the fork should come apart not all of them do so easily but they eventually do give.Look at the breakdown on the bike bandit website to make sure you have not missed anything then go at it again.

 

Yes after you put it all back together put the oil in at the top of the fork I think it is a 17 mm hex I own it but dont remember the size.

 

Dont worry about the oil air side issue it will be right if you put the oil in from the top

 

 

Jeff

[oldandcrotchety]

OK, Muffinman, I just went back out and slammed down on them forks with all my might and after about the fourth time they came loose. All at once. Note to anyone doing this: It really is best to remove the dishpan full of old fork oil before repeatedly yanking down on them forks. When they finally let go I slammed them full speed into the pan. I now need to consign these clothes to the rag pile. Nasty black 25 year old fork oil from collar to boot tops. Luckily none in the face, but the pan tilted up and made a large black puddle in the floor. Oh well, at least I got them off and the seals put on. Strange thing, though. Whoever did the seals last time had the three washers at the very bottom of the lower fork, with the cone on top of them. According to the photos, the cone should have been at the very bottom and the three washers next. That's how I put them back. I hope it's right. Now....if I could ask just one more question for now. Does anyone know what size Torx head holds the rod so I can tighten the 10mm bottom fork bolts?

[MiCarl]

According to the parts fiche the order of assembly from bottom to top is:

 

Spindle, Taper (the cone)

Spring, Valve

Washer

Spring, Valve

 

Both springs are the same part.

 

As for tightening the bottom bolt that holds the damping rod in place: If you go ahead and put the spring in you can invert the fork (over a clean rag) and put your weight into the lower fork. The pressure from the spring should keep the damping rod from turning while you tighten the bolt.

[muffinman]

OK, Muffinman, I just went back out and slammed down on them forks with all my might and after about the fourth time they came loose. All at once. Note to anyone doing this: It really is best to remove the dishpan full of old fork oil before repeatedly yanking down on them forks. When they finally let go I slammed them full speed into the pan. I now need to consign these clothes to the rag pile. Nasty black 25 year old fork oil from collar to boot tops. Luckily none in the face, but the pan tilted up and made a large black puddle in the floor. Oh well, at least I got them off and the seals put on. Strange thing, though. Whoever did the seals last time had the three washers at the very bottom of the lower fork, with the cone on top of them. According to the photos, the cone should have been at the very bottom and the three washers next. That's how I put them back. I hope it's right. Now....if I could ask just one more question for now. Does anyone know what size Torx head holds the rod so I can tighten the 10mm bottom fork bolts?

I just use an impact wrench while doing mine I have not removed the forks from the bike on any of the ones I have done so if you have an impact go that route.

Sorry I did not think to tell you to move the oil from under the scoot been there done that myself but hey you will laugh about it later when you think about it.

Jeff

[GeorgeS]

The lower bushing, was what you were working against.

 

Be sure it was not damaged , when removeing the lower forks.

 

It is highly reccomended that the lower and upper bushings be replaced,

as well as the New Seals.

 

Some folks get away with not replaceing the bushings, some don't and the new

set up does not work correct.

 

Oil should be replaced about every 3 or 4 years. I will do mine next winter, that will be three years on my rebuild 2 rideing seasons ago.

Wow, 25 year old oil ???

 

I drained a rear end on a car, that was about 18 years old, the stuff actually smelled Rotten !! It Stunk, kind of like a cow barn.

 

 

Are you putting in Progressive Suspension Springs, also ?

[Rocket]

Now....if I could ask just one more question for now. Does anyone know what size Torx head holds the rod so I can tighten the 10mm bottom fork bolts?

 

15/16 bolt size http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6875 Or as others have previously done, a wooden broom handle, used to hold the dampner rod. I'm not sure, but think a second pair of hands is required.

[funrider]

just did the fork tub seals and new springs, when I took mine apart, the washer were also in the wrong location, they were in the bottom of the the tubs instead of on top, just like yours. When I put it back together I put it back the way the book showed.

[oldandcrotchety]

Aw heck, Jeff, I laughed almost as soon as it happened. It was more of a "what was I thinking?" moment. The answer of course was that I wasn't thinking at all. Happens more and more as I get older. Thanks to all the replies, fellows. I am at the point now where everything is back in place except the springs and spacers. I just need to seat the seals and tighten the bottom fork bolts. Turning the forks upside down was never an option as I only removed the lowers and the uppers remained on the bike. I will see if I can find a bolt with a 15/16 head in my nut and bolt drawer, and if not, I know I have a broom and a son to hold it while I tighten the bolts. If this all works out I will have saved a good amount of money. The last time I had seals put in by a shop it cost me about $150.00. (on my Honda. I'm guessing more for this Venture) So far I've only been out about $12.00 for the seals and $24.00 for a 17mm allen head socket. Still have to go to Ft. Smith and buy the fork oil. I'm assuming that the 13.5 oz is per tube. Thanks again, and if I run into anything else before this is finished, I'll be back to pester again. The sad thing is that I was an auto mechanic back in the late 70s 'til about 1990, but when it comes to motorcycles I am a complete idiot. I have always just paid someone to work on my bikes and stuck to what I already knew, which was cars, but starting with this bike I have started doing everything I can myself. Or if not completely myself then at least with help of you guys that have already done it. Thanks guys!!

[GigaWhiskey]

I found this post quite interesting when it comes to filling the forks with oil. Prolly want to give this a read before you get the fork oil. Yanno, so you get enough.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21901

[oldandcrotchety]

Thanks, Gig, that's a very informative thread. I'll consider myself better educated now. Guess I'll put in the 13.5 ozs and see if it comes to 5.5 inches from top with tubes compressed. Thanks again.