Did anyone else have a 2nd gen lose 4th & 5th gear?

[Bruce B]

08 RSV just lost 4th & 5th gear. I've seen the post about the 1st gen's having this problem when a pin falls out of the shift drum.

I was able to get into 4th by down shifting to 2nd and then immediately upshifting into 4th. When I try to go into 5th, it won't go. I do the same thing, I downshift from 4th down to 3rd and immediately upshift past 4th into 5th. I am able to downshift ok, I only have a problem upshifting into 4th and 5th. 1st, 2nd, & 3rd shift normally.

When the clutch is in and I put it in first, it does not try to lunge forward so I don't think it is the clutch. With the clutch cover off, I can see travel when I pull the clutch.

This is an 08 with only 16k on it. The previous owner did the clutch spring upgrade.

 

This is a picture with the clutch cover off:

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/dbtgallery.php?do=view_image&id=28743&gal=gallery

 

I have the clutch out and have a video trying to run through the gears down and up while spinning the back tire.

 

Any ideas?

Edited October 13, 2018 by Bruce B
Add a video link

[Du-Rron]

Any ideas?

 

Something stuck in your shift drum causing not full rotation???

 

[Bruce B]

Something stuck in your shift drum causing not full rotation???

 

Could it be a bent shift fork?

Shifting with my heel is new to me, could I have shifted too hard and bent the shift forks?

That repair must mean removing and splitting the engine. I will have to put the clutch back in and find a shop out here in Western Mass.

[Du-Rron]

Could it be a bent shift fork?

 

STOMPING on it very forcefully will bend a fork and may break an ear off one of the forks. Is there some crunching you can feel while shifting? Take the shift cam retainer and the shift cam off (no case splitting) and rotate by hand and see what you feel. If smooth, look to a bent shift shaft, shifter assembly (cheap, no case splitting).

Edited October 15, 2018 by Du-Rron

[djh3]

Yea there granny are a lot like the race gearbox I worked on. My best intuition says shift drum, or selector. Drum may not be getting full rotation, or cam/dog is not catching. Could transfer over to selector fork//shaft

[Condor]

My thoughts.. With the extra clutch springs there's a tendency to short stroke the throw and it's not making it over the shift pin. You should actually be able to shift up thru the gears without the clutch. And I wonder why the original owner did the double up in the first place on a bike that had that few miles on it??.... If it was a slipping clutch, weak springs may not have been the cause... IMHO

[Bruce B]

STOMPING on it very forcefully will bend a fork and may break an ear off one of the forks. Is there some crunching you can feel while shifting? Take the shift cam retainer and the shift cam off (no case splitting) and rotate by hand and see what you feel. If smooth, look to a bent shift shaft, shifter assembly (cheap, no case splitting).

 

 

I just disengaged the spring and was able to rotate the shift cam through all the gears after I rotated the tire a little to find a spot where it shifted smoothly. I could watch the gears moving back and forth as I rotated the shift drum.

 

I decided to put it all back together and give it another try.

Went for a ride and it shifted through all the gears very smoothly like there was never a problem.

 

The only thing I did was change the oil!

 

I have no idea why it works perfectly now....hmmm I just took the clutch out and put it back together, changed the oil while I was at it and everything is fine.

 

[Du-Rron]

I just disengaged the spring and was able to rotate the shift cam through all the gears after I rotated the tire a little to find a spot where it shifted smoothly. I could watch the gears moving back and forth as I rotated the shift drum.

 

I decided to put it all back together and give it another try.

Went for a ride and it shifted through all the gears very smoothly like there was never a problem.

 

The only thing I did was change the oil!

 

I have no idea why it works perfectly now....hmmm I just took the clutch out and put it back together, changed the oil while I was at it and everything is fine.

 

 

This is good news as it confirms that everything internally is working smoothly and that no case splitting will be required. Look to EXTERNAL things like the shift shaft, shifter, pedal, heim joints, for your problems. Even lubricating those parts may solve your problems.

 

I had a heim joint come unbradded and was replaced under warranty that screwed my shifting up.

https://v4biker.tumblr.com/post/137722185652/ball-joint-loose

 

Also, by you just changing your oil, you may have also solved the problem. It is one of the causes listed in the chart.

[grubsie]

I am the guy that sold that bike to BruceB. I feel badly as I take great care of my babies. I put 10,000 miles on her and never experienced any shifting problems. I am glad that it is working fine now Bruce. I would take Du-Rron's advice and look at the external things he mentioned. Curious, I mentioned to you that it was very close to needing an oil change and gave you a new filter. Had you not taken the bike the day you looked at it, I would have changed it for you. I have only used Mobil 1 V-Twin oil with K&N Filters in it since I bought it as I do with any bike I own. Did you change brands? That could probably be the problem Du-Rron posted a link about.

 

And I wonder why the original owner did the double up in the first place on a bike that had that few miles on it??

 

The clutch wasn't slipping, I put the Barnett spring conversion clutch plate in for future preventative maintenance as I do with any bike I own. I put one in my 2009 Road Star with only 16,000 miles on it also. Like I stated earlier, my bikes are my babies and I do everything to them I can to improve them and make them as trouble free as possible. Replace tires with my preferred brand Avon Cobras regardless of the condition of the tires that were on it when I bought the bike, Change the oil and flush all the fluids as soon as they are in my possession so I have a starting point to work with. Replace parts that are known to fail at some point in the bikes life with improved ones etc long before the problems arise etc.

 

I wish I never sold that bike because of drinking the Kool Aid and buying a 2013 Ultra Classic. I have since bought another 2008 RSV with double the miles on it and am selling the Ultra. I am now in the process of doing all the changes and improvements to this one that I did to the one I sold BruceB. I just love throwing away money because of my stupidity.

[Du-Rron]

I am the guy that sold that bike to BruceB. I feel badly as I take great care of my babies. I put 10,000 miles on her and never experienced any shifting problems. I am glad that it is working fine now Bruce. I would take Du-Rron's advice and look at the external things he mentioned. Curious, I mentioned to you that it was very close to needing an oil change and gave you a new filter. Had you not taken the bike the day you looked at it, I would have changed it for you. I have only used Mobil 1 V-Twin oil with K&N Filters in it since I bought it as I do with any bike I own. Did you change brands? That could probably be the problem Du-Rron posted a link about.

 

 

 

The clutch wasn't slipping, I put the Barnett spring conversion clutch plate in for future preventative maintenance as I do with any bike I own. I put one in my 2009 Road Star with only 16,000 miles on it also. Like I stated earlier, my bikes are my babies and I do everything to them I can to improve them and make them as trouble free as possible. Replace tires with my preferred brand Avon Cobras regardless of the condition of the tires that were on it when I bought the bike, Change the oil and flush all the fluids as soon as they are in my possession so I have a starting point to work with. Replace parts that are known to fail at some point in the bikes life with improved ones etc long before the problems arise etc.

 

I wish I never sold that bike because of drinking the Kool Aid and buying a 2013 Ultra Classic. I have since bought another 2008 RSV with double the miles on it and am selling the Ultra. I am now in the process of doing all the changes and improvements to this one that I did to the one I sold BruceB. I just love throwing away money because of my stupidity.

 

Okie dokie got a few things here...

 

1. I would give up on using Mobil 1 20W-50 V-twin oil as it is no longer JASO rated. What oil would I run you ask? Well I live in Texas in the 7th hottest city in the nation according to msn.com and I still run 10W-40 oil. I have used several brands. Currently I use QUICKSILVER Synthetic that I get at Wal-mart. I am not a stickler about keeping with a brand. What I believe is a top priority is that you run an oil that is SAE 10W-40 at least API SH and must be JASO rated MA. I prefer a synthetic.

 

2. I understand about the clutch slipping thing. Mine slipped when I had 6K miles on it (all of them are bad about that I hear) and that is when I put the skydoc spring upgrade on it.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?99519-Clutch-Upgrade-using-Skydoc_17-Kit

now, no more slip fully loaded.

 

3. About selling the bike. I know. I was thinking about it. This company came out with another motorcycle that sounded like an upgrade but I remain unconvinced. My 2012 Royal Star Venture has a build quality like no other. No j-nuts holding stuff on. An engineer calculated where a hole was to be drilled, welded a nut behind it, and had the mating part bolt hole match fitted to it. Quality done. Cheap no. Chrome plating on it everywhere. Chrome forks, not chrome fork covers. This has to cost an extra penny or two during manufacture. It's big. It towers over most other motorcycles. It's comfortable. This thing flat out fly's down the highway and will pass anything but a gas station. It will carry me, my wife, and a trailer at speeds that I sometimes fear to travel at. And smooth..... only my truck is smoother. No zippy electronics. or ride modes, or proportioned brakes, or hecu pumps means nothing to break and nothing to fix. All the electronics, music, and gps I need are in my phone. AIN'T NO WAY I'M SELLING MY ROYAL STAR VENTURE!!!

[grubsie]

Okie dokie got a few things here...

 

1. I would give up on using Mobil 1 20W-50 V-twin oil as it is no longer JASO rated. What oil would I run you ask? Well I live in Texas in the 7th hottest city in the nation according to msn.com and I still run 10W-40 oil. I have used several brands. Currently I use QUICKSILVER Synthetic that I get at Wal-mart. I am not a stickler about keeping with a brand. What I believe is a top priority is that you run an oil that is SAE 10W-40 at least API SH and must be JASO rated MA. I prefer a synthetic.

 

I checked the Mobil Site and yes , the Jaso rating isn't stated on the page or on the bottles but here's what the page says right in the beginning.

 

[h=3]Full synthetic offering outstanding protection[/h] Mobil 1™ V-Twin 20W-50 synthetic motorcycle oil is formulated to help offer outstanding protection in four-cycle, V-Twin type engines – particularly those that are air-cooled and tend to run hotter than other types of engines.

 

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 engine oil is designed to help provide the proper frictional characteristics necessary for wet-clutch common engine/transmission systems.

 

The unique, synthetic structure of the Mobil 1™ motorcycle oil formulations offers advantages beyond conventional motorcycle oils of similar viscosities.

 

Please reference our Mobil 1™ Product Guide for a quick look at specifications including zinc and phosphorus, as well as manufacturer approvals for Mobil 1 motor oils.

 

 

I posted about missing Jaso rating on the m1 vtwin on another forum and the "Oil Guru" of the group had this to say:

 

 

It just fine,remember its specifically designed for air cooled v-twins.

 

As far as jaso rating goes,it used to be jaso rated AND now its not,why?, who knows.

1i Asked Mobil if its the same formulation when it was JASO rated vs non

and they said there was no change.

 

I used m1 v-twin in 2 diff R*'s i have owned with no clutch slip issues.

 

Friend has an R* he has used m1 v-twin in since he got the bike, it now has over 70k miles and didn't have any oil related

clutch slip issues.

 

My friends R* went approx 50-55k miles before his clutch just started to slip which is a bit above the avg max the oem clutch spring normally go's using non jaso rated m1 v-twin which is an example showing that oil didnt cause premature clutch slippage along with again the same oil not leading to any premature clutch

slip the 2 r*'s i have owned too.

 

As soon as the clutch started to slip in my friends R* at 50-55k miles he installed a yami star perf clutch spring that has approx 20% additional clamping force while then stock weak oem clutch spring had while retaining the original oem fiber clutch plates and steel spacer plates his R* came with & the clutch is still working great with no slippage at 70k+ miles.

 

So you should be good to go with M! v-twin 20w-50 full syn oil.

 

BTW,a few yrs back there was lrg oil test done on motorcycle oils and Amsoil (jaso rated) came in 1st place and M1 v-twin (non Jaso rated) came in a close 2nd place out of a total of 17 motorcycle specific oils tested that were on the market @ the time.

 

Happy motoring.

[Du-Rron]

I checked the Mobil Site and yes , the Jaso rating isn't stated on the page or on the bottles but here's what the page says right in the beginning.

Mobil 1™ V-Twin 20W-50 synthetic motorcycle oil is formulated to help offer outstanding protection in four-cycle, V-Twin type engines – particularly those that are air-cooled and tend to run hotter than other types of engines.

...It just fine,remember its specifically designed for air cooled v-twins.

As far as jaso rating goes,it used to be jaso rated AND now its not,why?, who knows.

 

If JASO rating is not on the website, or on the bottle, or on their product guide for their V-twin 20W-50 oil then I would advise against using it.

The 2nd Gen Yamaha Royal Star Venture is not, never was, ...never will be (see below)... an air-cooled V-twin.

I live in a sweltering hot climate and I stand by recommending SAE 10W-40 oil in our water-cooled thermostat controlled V-4, in at least an API SH rating and of course carrying the JASO rating MA or MA2.

 

(...never will be): The 3rd Gen Venture, WHOOPS, IS an air-cooled V-twin!!! And still those guys that have been previously swilling Mobil 1 in their other bikes will not touch Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin oil in their $27,000 3rd Gen Venture motorcycle because it is not JASO rated. Cannot blame them.

[Bruce B]

Btw, I put in Mobile One Racing 4T, 10W-40

 

Thanks to all of you for your help and comments and especially to you Grubsie for all the mods on this great RSV!

[Graywulf]

Okie dokie got a few things here...

 

1. I would give up on using Mobil 1 20W-50 V-twin oil as it is no longer JASO rated. What oil would I run you ask? Well I live in Texas in the 7th hottest city in the nation according to msn.com and I still run 10W-40 oil. I have used several brands. Currently I use QUICKSILVER Synthetic that I get at Wal-mart. I am not a stickler about keeping with a brand. What I believe is a top priority is that you run an oil that is SAE 10W-40 at least API SH and must be JASO rated MA. I prefer a synthetic.

 

2. I understand about the clutch slipping thing. Mine slipped when I had 6K miles on it (all of them are bad about that I hear) and that is when I put the skydoc spring upgrade on it.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?99519-Clutch-Upgrade-using-Skydoc_17-Kit

now, no more slip fully loaded.

 

3. About selling the bike. I know. I was thinking about it. This company came out with another motorcycle that sounded like an upgrade but I remain unconvinced. My 2012 Royal Star Venture has a build quality like no other. No j-nuts holding stuff on. An engineer calculated where a hole was to be drilled, welded a nut behind it, and had the mating part bolt hole match fitted to it. Quality done. Cheap no. Chrome plating on it everywhere. Chrome forks, not chrome fork covers. This has to cost an extra penny or two during manufacture. It's big. It towers over most other motorcycles. It's comfortable. This thing flat out fly's down the highway and will pass anything but a gas station. It will carry me, my wife, and a trailer at speeds that I sometimes fear to travel at. And smooth..... only my truck is smoother. No zippy electronics. or ride modes, or proportioned brakes, or hecu pumps means nothing to break and nothing to fix. All the electronics, music, and gps I need are in my phone. AIN'T NO WAY I'M SELLING MY ROYAL STAR VENTURE!!!

 

The longer I own this bike {RSV} and put miles on it, the more I am realising just how good they are. I'm buying doodackies to upgrade it, just because. Fitting the LED rear light and a smoke cover later today, because it has the 'clear' lens indicators and will match. I've got it bad lmao!!

I have to accept it don't do bends like, and NZ does have a lot of twisty roads, but the comfort, stability, and feel of it far outweighs the slower road speeds at times. Build quality is excellent, as Yamaha always seems to do with 'flagship' bikes. I am enjoy my Roady 1600 as a daily rider, but every time I go out in the garage Barney is beckoning.