Audio upgrade

[Freebird]

I will simply add that you have to be careful when replacing the speakers. The Hertz models that were mentioned may work in the front but likely would NOT fit in the rear. I bought 2 sets of Alpines once for the '99 and they were OK in the front but due to the size of the magnets, would not fit in the rear pods. You are really restricted on what will work in the rear.

 

The earbuds are the absolute the best choice if it is good quality sound that you are after. The Edsets mentioned have a jack on the module that you can plug them right into and not use the helmet speakers at all. They simply replace the helmet speakers so your cb and intercom still work as they always did. They are a bit of a pain to put in and then put your helmet on over them every time you stop but you will get great sound.

[YamahaLarry]

I will simply add that you have to be careful when replacing the speakers. The Hertz models that were mentioned may work in the front but likely would NOT fit in the rear. I bought 2 sets of Alpines once for the '99 and they were OK in the front but due to the size of the magnets, would not fit in the rear pods. You are really restricted on what will work in the rear.

 

Good info. I have had those apart once during the painting of the 99 a few years ago and didn't recall the space being so limited. For some reason I was only concerned with the space under the hood. Glad you brought this to my attention because the Kicker magnets seem to look fairly large in the pics online.

[Shadowhawk]

That's good to know about the limited space in for the rear speakers.

 

I'm sure a lot of you are wondering "why in the world even worry about trying to make a stereo system with 4" speakers sound good?" Well why not. If anything this is a learning experience. Learning the limitations of something and working around those limitations is one of the best teachers a person can have. It makes a person think outside the box and think of doing things other people haven't tried or didn't think of. I mean what's the worse that can happen? I come out with a system that sounds a little better and I learned something new.

 

In my search I found an amp that might work. I will have to take some measurements inside the fairing to see if it would fit. I think this should power anything I decide that I want to use, or can use as far as speakers go.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JEC0YFQ/?coliid=I2ERZOE7SJINMR&colid=2KZPGHQBVX0S6&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

 

I think the Hertz speakers are probably way more expensive than I should even consider but it's a possibility to think about. In the end I probably won't use them but you never know.

[videoarizona]

Forgive me, but I looked into the little amp you linked to. One person mentioned it got hot fast and needs direct air flow....and it's not waterproof?

If this is the case, where are you going to mount it?

 

Also, since it's a class D amp, you will be drawing some power. If you know someone who has the ability, or if you have the ability to take a current measurement while unit is on and cranking, you might save yourself some grief later on...knowing how much current the unit draws at a good volume. We don't have much to spare with our scoots.

 

Other than above, it looks like a good unit and small!

david

 

PS. I too like to push the envelope and learn. Thinking outside of the box can yield some interesting results!

Edited September 27, 2018 by videoarizona
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[YamahaLarry]

Forgive me, but I looked into the little amp you linked to. One person mentioned it got hot fast and needs direct air flow....and it's not waterproof?

If this is the case, where are you going to mount it?

 

Also, since it's a class D amp, you will be drawing some power. If you know someone who has the ability, or if you have the ability to take a current measurement while unit is on and cranking, you might save yourself some grief later on...knowing how much current the unit draws at a good volume. We don't have much to spare with our scoots.

 

Other than above, it looks like a good unit and small!

david

 

Overheating is a concern I have in using the Clairion amp. Not concerned a lot with power draw on the battery or charging system. I think since changing to all LED running/head lights I have gained some to spare.

[videoarizona]

Overheating is a concern I have in using the Clairion amp. Not concerned a lot with power draw on the battery or charging system. I think since changing to all LED running/head lights I have gained some to spare.

 

 

Please let us know how it works. I had given up last year on finding an amp that would work for my 05. Didn't want to melt the inner plastic fairing where I have located my extra stuff!

[Shadowhawk]

Ya know I just realized something. Here I am trying to plan an upgrade to an audio system and I am putting the cart before the horse. I guess I should start from the ground and work my way up instead of looking at speakers, amps and such first. I mean its easy to look at a speaker or amp and say "OOOoo that looks good" But then if I ran the sound system my battery would go dead in a matter of minutes and all the wiring on the bike would melt. So I will do just that. Lets see what I have and what I can work with.

 

To start from square one I should probably get some numbers. Like the charging system.

 

What are the numbers I can work with power wise?

 

How many spare amps or volts do I have to work with so I will not overload the system by getting an amp that draws too much.

 

What are the specifications of the stock sound system?

 

I just recently changed my stock headlights out for LED, does that give me a little more fudge factor power wise or is that negligible?

 

Sorry for the dumb questions. Like I have said before, when it comes to wires and electricity I am damn near retarded. All I know is red is hot and black is ground, getting shocked hurts and electricity makes really bright lights and welding rods melt.

[bongobobny]

OK, for what it's worth when I changed over to the Kenwood speakers the system sounded a lot better, but on the highway, I have to run it full blast to hear it clearly using the speakers. The magnets are pretty big, probably the size of those Hertz you are looking at, and there was no issue with the rear speakers fitting. My investment was around $100 for all four speakers.

 

I did buy a couple of power amps but never got around to installing them, their cost was around $25 each from what I remember but that was a few years ago. They are still sitting on the shelf. More power would be a definite plus but once again I wonder if it would be really worth it due to the fact that 4-inch speakers will NEVER sound as good as 5 1/2-inch speakers no matter how much power you ram into them! I can see where a 4 channel amp would save on space but at the time I never considered them due to the difference in price between them and two 2 channel ones.

 

As far as extra power from the Venture electrical system, well consider this. Ther accessory plug uses a 5 amp fuse which at 12 volts equates to 60 watts. Allowing for a certain amount of inefficiency of electronic circuitry let's say it can handle an additional 50 watts of audio power. So, how can we gain some extra power?? Switching to LED lights will save some, but with certain complications. With the turn signals unless you like rapid fire indicators you need to install resistors on the LED bulbs and guess what? Those resistors eat electrical power! So to avoid this, you need to modify your flasher to slow down the flash rate. This is actually a fairly simple mod and is documented here on the site, it requires a resistor and a little soldering. But let's forget about the turn signals and brake light because they do not run continuously, just when you are turning and stopping. So, with just the running lights you may be able to save another 10 to 20 watts. Now, if you want to save a whole bunch more watts, switch your headlight over to LED! Now, unfortunately, to do that you can't just plug in a LED bulb, you need to change the whole headlight assembly in order for your headlight to work the way it should! This gets a little complicated and expensive to do because the stock headlight assembly is not very conventional and some cutting of metal and fabricating is required. Ultimately what you will gain are a better and brighter headlight and huge electrical power savings, probably enough to power your amp!

 

You can convert to a higher output stator which will give you more overall electrical capacity but high output stators don't last as long as the regular stator because more power equates to more heat which is the ultimate demise of your stator. Switching to an AGM battery will help improve the overall capacity of your electrical system as AGM's have more CCH's but of course, you need to increase your charging system to keep up if your load on the system increases. You can only take out what you put back in!

 

I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to point out what can be done and point out that anything you do will hit you in the pocketbook!

 

Yamaha Larry, just like David I would like to know how things work out if you do decide to pursue your plans with a power amp. Like David, I too am concerned about heat dissipation inside the fairing and wonder if a 12-volt muffin fan would help alleviate some of the heat. Of course, there should be some kind of ductwork to get the hot air out of the enclosed fairing...

[bongobobny]

PS I missed the last part about you already switching your headlight, so as I mentioned that is actually a huge power saving...

[Shadowhawk]

Thanks for explaining all of this. It definitely makes me consider what needs to be done. I had my stator go out on my 06 vstar 650 once and that wasn't a fun fix. I can't imagine what it would be like on this bike. I like to keep certain things stock and that's one of them, considering the OEM part is much better than aftermarket "high performance" part. Sometimes bigger is not better. I am starting to think that is a general rule when it comes to this sound system. It sounds like me switching to LED headlights was a big help though. It has freed myself up a little if I decide to upgrade.

 

I am eventually going to switch to an LED brake light. This one is pretty spendy but it looks like it's much better quality than the chinese part. Plus the LED's have a better spacing than the others.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Dynamics-Genesis-II-LED-Taillight-for-Yamaha-V-Star-Royal-Star-Venture/141574762626?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Db7cce60f0136433f8df75abb1844defb%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D11%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D232804272998%26itm%3D141574762626&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab17e65e7-c2b5-11e8-864a-74dbd180c78d%7Cparentrq%3A1d9573971660aa66b3d25b0ffffe29bd%7Ciid%3A1

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tail-Light-Smoke-Lens-for-Yamaha-1999-2003-Road-Star-1996-2008-Royal-Star/123175818179?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Db7cce60f0136433f8df75abb1844defb%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D232804272998%26itm%3D123175818179&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab17e65e7-c2b5-11e8-864a-74dbd180c78d%7Cparentrq%3A1d9573971660aa66b3d25b0ffffe29bd%7Ciid%3A1

 

I want to eventually go full LED for the turn signals. Not sure if I will just deal with the high flash rate or not. I guess it's all about personal preference. But then again in that department I am not dealing with that much wattage. If I am to the point where my turn signals affect my sound system then I am pushing my luck and the limits too far.

 

On a side note: I know this discussion of getting the most out of a 4" speaker sounds silly but if anything, others that might have the same questions can get answers. I mean look at the discussion we have had. There are not very many posts that have multiple pages in the forums. The best thing is that the conversation is current. There are posts and questions that have been made in the past but those are from several years ago. Things have changed, newer and better things have been made since then. Technology moves so fast nowadays that a lot can change in a matter of a year or so. It's good to rehash certain topics just for the mere fact that because technology has gotten better, it can possibly open up a whole new world that people haven't even thought about a couple years ago.

 

Also look at the amount of content we have covered. Everything from headsets to full on sound systems and now LED conversions to get as much out of the charging system as possible. I have learned a lot and this has given me a lot to think about. When I bought this bike a month ago, upgrading the sound system was the last thing on my mind. I was actually happy to even have one just for the mere fact is that it is a unique and premium item to have on a motorcycle. Even if I decide to not even upgrade, I have had fun discussing it and I hope the discussion keeps going.

 

Ok back on track....

 

I went out and looked at the rear speakers and how I would get to them. At first glance I am totally baffled as to how to even get to them. How do you open things up to get to them to change them out? Is it just those 4 little allenhead screws or is there a lot more to it? Also there is a little black rubber space in the middle of the backrest between those screws below the padding. What's that for? It looks like a space for some kind of aftermarket addon or something.

[bongobobny]

The armrests are "glued on" so it takes a little persuasion to break them free. Sorry, I did my conversion a couple of years ago and I'm 71 so I'm getting a little senile so I can't help you out much more...

[videoarizona]

JC,

 

The Custom Dynamics LED is exactly what I got. It's already red LEDs so you don't need the lens...just use the red lens that came with the bike. With a red lens, red LEDS work just fine! Mine is so much brighter than stock.

 

IE, pull off the lens, take out the bulb, plug in the LED panel, place panel into frame, put lens back on, screw down. Done.

[Shadowhawk]

JC,

 

The Custom Dynamics LED is exactly what I got. It's already red LEDs so you don't need the lens...just use the red lens that came with the bike. With a red lens, red LEDS work just fine! Mine is so much brighter than stock.

 

IE, pull off the lens, take out the bulb, plug in the LED panel, place panel into frame, put lens back on, screw down. Done.

 

 

 

I decided to go with the smoked lense because I got the smoked lenses for all the turn signals. Just making everything match. The smoked turn signals look pretty sharp.

[Shadowhawk]

The armrests are "glued on" so it takes a little persuasion to break them free. Sorry, I did my conversion a couple of years ago and I'm 71 so I'm getting a little senile so I can't help you out much more...

 

 

So let me get this right. They installed a set of speakers into something that's glued together and the only way to get to them is to break it? Ugh.... that sounds like a bad design.

[Freebird]

It's not as bad as it sounds. I have peeled off the rubber and put it back on using the same tape at least twice with no issues.

[Graywulf]

I decided to go with the smoked lense because I got the smoked lenses for all the turn signals. Just making everything match. The smoked turn signals look pretty sharp.

 

Yep did the same, ordered the LED tail and smoked cover as Barney already has smoked indicator covers. Going to fit a pass light bar, then grab either an LED H4 bulb, or LED conversion kit head/pass lamps. Liking the look of those Hertz speakers, considering the clarion speakers look like 'doped paper' through the fine mesh, I can't see any issues with a modern 'synthetic cone and rubber surround' speaker.

I think the biggest improvement in recent years is the D class amps, low heat and power consumption compared to standard transistor amps.

[bongobobny]

So let me get this right. They installed a set of speakers into something that's glued together and the only way to get to them is to break it? Ugh.... that sounds like a bad design.

No, you don't break anything, they are stuck together with two-sided tape. Like Don, I stuck them back together using the same tape...

[Shadowhawk]

Oh so it's not the case itself that comes apart but the black rubber that's on top of the armrest that comes off and you access the speaker from the top?

[Freebird]

No, the case itself does come apart but you have to remove the pads to get to some of the screws that hold it together.

[Rafterd]

Well, you have touched upon a long and basically unsolved dilemma. There have been many efforts here to improve the sound. Speakers, Amps, Bass Blockers, rear baffles, etc. None have been really satisfying. The simple truth is that the 4" speakers just won't produce the performance needed for a motorcycle. That's why many of us use helmet headsets or earbuds. I personally found that the Edsets work best. They have about the best helmet speakers but I don't use them. They also have a headphone jack integrated into the module and I plug a set of earbuds into them and then put my helmet over them.

 

To answer your question though. Opinions vary but the most popular speaker choice seems to be the Polk DB401 models. Now I think that one has been discontinued and replace by the DB402 but they are still available.

 

There are others that will work and some have better specs but you have to be wary of the size of the magnets, especially for the rear. There is limited space for them. I don't know if the 402s have the same size magnets as the 401.

 

Hello Freebird, I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but which Edsets do you use? I noticed there were a couple of different ones. I’ve always used J&M, they’re OK, but looking for something better.

thanks

[Freebird]

I have the ones for the 3/4 or open face helmet. Mine have the plugin RCA type mic. I think I bought them before the Thunderspeakers were available so can't say how good they are. I removed the speakers anyway because we use earbuds.

 

http://www.edsets.com/3g-headset-for-3-4-open-face-helmets.php