Swing arm/differential joint seal

[dna9656]

As there is no gasket in the parts book for the swing arm/differential joint, I was wondering if anyone on the forum uses some sort of form-a-gasket type stuff on the swing arm/final drive gear?

Edited September 14, 2018 by dna9656

[Prairiehammer]

As there is no gasket in the parts book for the swing arm/differential joint, I was wondering if anyone on the forum uses some sort of form-a-gasket type stuff on the swing arm/differential joint?

 

There is no oil within the swing arm.

The final drive has its own oil seal.

The transmission output has its own oil seal.

There is no need for any sealer or gasket at that point; swing arm/final drive. (I wish people would not call the final drive a "differential". It is NOT a "differential".

[Bob K.]

The service manual says to put sealant between the two halves. I never have. I haven't seen any ill effects--water intrusion, etc.--because the surfaces are pretty tight. This time, I put a little grease on each surface...just because.

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Bob K.

[dna9656]

The service manual says to put sealant between the two halves. I never have. I haven't seen any ill effects--water intrusion, etc.--because the surfaces are pretty tight. This time, I put a little grease on each surface...just because.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114409

 

Your excellent graphic come from the '83 to '85 service manual correct? The '86 and up (the 1300s) have a different set up in the swing arm; but I believe the 2 bikes use the same final drive gear.

Edited September 14, 2018 by dna9656

[dna9656]

There is no oil within the swing arm.

The final drive has its own oil seal.

The transmission output has its own oil seal.

There is no need for any sealer or gasket at that point; swing arm/final drive. (I wish people would not call the final drive a "differential". It is NOT a "differential".

 

I stand corrected.

I wish people wouldn't refer me to the parts Fitch or service manual when(in my orig. post) I cited either publication to show I looked it up and I have a question; in an effort to avoid references (that I all ready looked into) and wasted time. I fully appreciate any response to my questions but all i ask is please don't refer me to a source I have previously indicated in my post.

[dna9656]

I haven't got the Relay Arm/Arm 1 assembly (to lube the joints) off yet, I thought this model came with zirk grease fittings?

Shafts 1 & 2 are being hard to get out... anyone got any tips besides an overnight soak in penetrating oil?

Are they easier to remove once the assembly is off/out of the bike?

The book says to replace the bushings in the Relay Arm/Arm 1 assembly, Only one bushing is available (P/N 90381-18068-00, $10.60 @ Partzilla and it calls for 4 of them) does this bushing go bad? What about the (P/N 90381-20069-00) bushing?

Are there any suitable substitutes?

Does anyone know anything about the bearings used in Swing Arm (P/N 93332-00051-00 $30.62) If you run the P/N at Amazon you get "Bearing, tapered #32 " I don't know what that means...There has to be a better place to buy that bearing....

Edited September 14, 2018 by dna9656

[Bob K.]

Your excellent graphic come from the '83 to '85 service manual correct? The '86 and up (the 1300s) have a different set up in the swing arm; but I believe the 2 bikes use the same final drive gear.

Sorry. It's from the '86 - '93 service manual.

[dna9656]

Sorry. It's from the '86 - '93 service manual.

 

I believe the text is referring to the case haves that house the universal joint, and to set the drive shaft in place on the "middle case side"; The area your diagram refers to is forward of the area I am speaking of; where the swing arm and final gear drive come together and held tightly in place by 4 studs, nuts and washers.

After I made the original post I got to thinking about your diagram so I re-thought my statement and edited it.

Edited September 14, 2018 by dna9656

[Prairiehammer]

I haven't got the Relay Arm/Arm 1 assembly (to lube the joints) off yet, I thought this model came with zirk grease fittings?

Which model are you working on? The 1988 XVZ13DU? At any rate, the grease Zerks were not installed on the relay arms by the factory until 1990.

 

Shafts 1 & 2 are being hard to get out... anyone got any tips besides an overnight soak in penetrating oil?

Are they easier to remove once the assembly is off/out of the bike?

Yes, it will be easier to remove those shafts after the relay arm assembly is on the bench. Some have resorted to heat and a lot of CAREFUL pounding to remove the shaft(s).

 

The book says to replace the bushings in the Relay Arm/Arm 1 assembly, Only one bushing is available (P/N 90381-18068-00, $10.60 @ Partzilla and it calls for 4 of them) does this bushing go bad? What about the (P/N 90381-20069-00) bushing?

Are there any suitable substitutes?

Actually, EIGHT of the 90381-18068-00 bushings are required if you replace all of them. (There are two bushings at each of the four pivot points on the "Big U" relay arm. You may have to check other suppliers in addition to Partzilla, to obtain enough bushings. Run the part number through an eBay search and you will find more suppliers and bushings. And yes, they do wear out, especially the relay arms without the grease zerks (1988-1989). I know of no substitutes for either of the bushings.

 

Does anyone know anything about the bearings used in Swing Arm (P/N 93332-00051-00 $30.62) If you run the P/N at Amazon you get "Bearing, tapered #32 " I don't know what that means...There has to be a better place to buy that bearing....

I have never heard of the swing arm bearings going bad, but if you need to replace them, 93332-00051-00 is commonly available (at a more reasonable price) as 30204JR from Koyo and others. BTW, the previous incarnation of the swing arm bearings was Yamaha PN 93332-00050-00 (93332-00051-00 superceded it). The non Yamaha equivalent for 93332-00050-00 is HR30204J originally supplied by NSK. It too is commonly available, mostly used as an automotive wheel bearing. The difference between the two bearings is that the 93332-00051-00/30204JR is called "HiCap" (High Capacity?).

Edited September 15, 2018 by Prairiehammer

[Bob K.]

I believe the text is referring to the case haves that house the universal joint, and to set the drive shaft in place on the "middle case side"; The area your diagram refers to is forward of the area I am speaking of; where the swing arm and final gear drive come together and held tightly in place by 4 studs, nuts and washers.

I noticed the same language in 2 separate spots in the '86 - '93 service manual. It shows up once in the swing arm maintenance section.

 

It also shows up in the shaft drive maintenance section.

 

In both instances, the next step is installing the final gear assembly and tightening the 4 nuts (final gear case). That's the only time I can find parts in the swing arm or the final gear assembly referred to as a "case" in order to get the "case halves" reference. Does the '83 - '85 say something different? I'll make a note in my manual if I've interpreted these sections incorrectly.

[dna9656]

Which model are you working on? The 1988 XVZ13DU? At any rate, the grease Zerks were not installed on the relay arms by the factory until 1990.

 

I have an '88 XVZ13U.

 

 

Yes, it will be easier to remove those shafts after the relay arm assembly is on the bench. Some have resorted to heat and a lot of CAREFUL pounding to remove the shaft(s).

 

 

Actually, EIGHT of the 90381-18068-00 bushings are required if you replace all of them. (There are two bushings at each of the four pivot points on the "Big U" relay arm. You may have to check other suppliers in addition to Partzilla, to obtain enough bushings. Run the part number through an eBay search and you will find more suppliers and bushings. And yes, they do wear out, especially the relay arms without the grease zerks (1988-1989). I know of no substitutes for either of the bushings.

 

 

I have never heard of the swing arm bearings going bad, but if you need to replace them, 93332-00051-00 is commonly available (at a more reasonable price) as 3024JR from Koyo and others. BTW, the previous incarnation of the swing arm bearings was Yamaha PN 93332-00050-00 (93332-00051-00 superceded it). The non Yamaha equivalent for 93332-00050-00 is HR30204J originally supplied by NSK. It too is commonly available, mostly used as an automotive wheel bearing. The difference between the two bearings is that the 93332-00051-00/3024JR is called "HiCap" (High Capacity?).

 

Thanks Kevin! As always you're wealth of knowledge!

[dna9656]

I noticed the same language in 2 separate spots in the '86 - '93 service manual. It shows up once in the swing arm maintenance section.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114424

 

It also shows up in the shaft drive maintenance section.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114425

 

In both instances, the next step is installing the final gear assembly and tightening the 4 nuts (final gear case). That's the only time I can find parts in the swing arm or the final gear assembly referred to as a "case" in order to get the "case halves" reference. Does the '83 - '85 say something different? I'll make a note in my manual if I've interpreted these sections incorrectly.

 

 

Well I must confess I did not do a word search on the manual, I can only talk about the page that's in front of me. Few of the on line (free) manuals are searchable, they have no pictures or page numbers, they are just an image.

I'm taking the arm and arm 1 down to disassemble for greasing, THEN I'll be putting it all together!

I sure appreciate Kevin's and your help (and everybody else!) viewpoint(s) on this, it makes me think things through! Is that why my head hurts?

[dna9656]

I noticed the same language in 2 separate spots in the '86 - '93 service manual. It shows up once in the swing arm maintenance section.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114424

 

It also shows up in the shaft drive maintenance section.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114425

 

In both instances, the next step is installing the final gear assembly and tightening the 4 nuts (final gear case). That's the only time I can find parts in the swing arm or the final gear assembly referred to as a "case" in order to get the "case halves" reference. Does the '83 - '85 say something different? I'll make a note in my manual if I've interpreted these sections incorrectly.

 

When I worked on Lockheed aircraft, my crew chief told me that engineering students wrote the service manuals for Lockheed (note: NOT English majors or experienced tech writers but STUDENTS) and therefore might "read" a little weird....Who writes for Yamaha?

Edited September 15, 2018 by dna9656

[Prairiehammer]

I made a typo when I wrote the number for the 93332-00051-00 generic equivalent. The correct bearing number is 30204JR, not 3024JR. I have edited and corrected my post in regards.

 

[dna9656]

Well now that we're here in the Swing Arm, Final Drive Gear, Arm/Arm1 forward and to each side of the rear wheel area....

I got the Swing Arm, Arm 1 and the Relay Arm off the bike. I'm going to have to media blast it for paint as it hasn't much paint on it.

Now to my concern, there is an arm of some name that links the shock to the Relay/Arm 1 assembly, I can't find it in the parts book so i cannot learn of it's proper nomenclature but in any event, apparently you have to remove the exhaust collector to get the bolt/pic out, well, screw that, I know better than to screw with used exhaust parts... So I did the best I could to lube that pin, I will pull the bearings out of the Swing Arm and media blast the Swing, Relay and Arm 1, prime and paint them and re-install the bearings/bushings unless i can pick them up new for very little (the bearing now in place don't seem to be bad) cost, there are oils seals as well....

Anyway that's what I got done this evening!

So having removed the bearings in the Swing Arm... They are not pressed in but the races are... The bearings had what looked like enough grease for shipping purposes and that's all. Obviously they are not sealed bearings, only one side is a blind hole and the other (because of the drive shaft) is not. IMHO the should be sealed, a least the one on the drive shaft side should be.

Edited September 15, 2018 by dna9656

[dna9656]

I made a typo when I wrote the number for the 93332-00051-00 generic equivalent. The correct bearing number is 30204JR, not 3024JR. I have edited and corrected my post in regards.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114429

 

You're a gem!

[Bob K.]

When I worked on Lockheed aircraft, my crew chief told me that engineering students wrote the service manuals for Lockheed (note: NOT English majors or experienced tech writers but STUDENTS) and therefore might "read" a little weird....Who writes for Yamaha?

Exactly!

[dna9656]

I made a typo when I wrote the number for the 93332-00051-00 generic equivalent. The correct bearing number is 30204JR, not 3024JR. I have edited and corrected my post in regards.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114429

 

Do you have any idea what the P/N might be on a sealed bearing for this application?

[Prairiehammer]

Do you have any idea what the P/N might be on a sealed bearing for this application?

 

I do not.

 

Sealed tapered roller bearings are relatively uncommon and doing a cursory search revealed no sealed bearing equivalent. There may well be one out there.

 

Personally, I see no need for a sealed bearing at the swing arm pivot. The bearing should be packed full of grease and there is a fairly robust cover and a convoluted path for dust and moisture to migrate.

 

Keep in mind that the swing arm has a VERY short travel and and virtually no rotational speed. Unlike a wheel bearing, for instance. Even tapered roller wheel bearings, subjected to much greater load, much higher rotational speed and wetter conditions are not commonly sealed.

 

Pack with grease, assemble and call it good.

[dna9656]

I do not.

 

Sealed tapered roller bearings are relatively uncommon and doing a cursory search revealed no sealed bearing equivalent. There may well be one out there.

 

Personally, I see no need for a sealed bearing at the swing arm pivot. The bearing should be packed full of grease and there is a fairly robust cover and a convoluted path for dust and moisture to migrate.

 

Keep in mind that the swing arm has a VERY short travel and and virtually no rotational speed. Unlike a wheel bearing, for instance. Even tapered roller wheel bearings, subjected to much greater load, much higher rotational speed and wetter conditions are not commonly sealed.

 

Pack with grease, assemble and call it good.

 

Well my reason for asking about a sealed bearing is that if I could install those I wouldn't have to concern myself with those bearings for a good long while... That's all, just laziness!

After I media blast and paint the swing arm I will repack and and re-install those bearings.

I have a HF blaster here at the house, I just have to dig it out of the mess in the garage, move the Sebring and Avalanche out to the street, and blast it on the concrete in front of the shop, with a piece of plywood between the work and the concrete of course!

I'll pick up some epoxy spray bombs (spray can paint) if my buddy can't powder coat the Swing Arm for me....I figure to coats of primer and 2 of top coat ought to do the job.

[dna9656]

Anyone got a swing arm this clean?

 

 

Off to get some self etching epoxy primer and some silver paint hopefully in epoxy as well.

Edited September 18, 2018 by dna9656