Still no fire....driving me crazy

[Captaineasy520]

Hello from Arizona,

I closed my last post stating I had fire to all four cylinders and was dancing a little jig. Well the dance is over the spark lasted about one turn of the starter, so at this point I'm rechecking Bongobob's and Puc's amoung others who offered up some great info.

I'll tell you what I've done and maybe someone can guide me thru this no fire nightmare. From the beginning:

Puc sent me a TCI, plug wires, caps, up grade for the fuse box. I installed everything plus a new stator, new battery, regulator/rectifier, no for all that I have checked out.

Primary coil test at the coils: 1= 2.5, 2= 2.5, 3= 2.5, 4= 2.5

Secondary test at the coils; 1=13.64, 2=13.46, 3=13.76, 4=13.58

Test at the TCI plugs: for the ignition side I got an average of 2.6

On the pickup side in order: 112.6, 115.4, 113.9, 112.9

I checked the red/white power lead into each coil with the battery reading an average of 12.30volts and a drop when engaging the starter to 10.36volts.

I checked the regulator and it had no power at the brown wires while starter was engaged.

So that's where I stand and I still have no spark to the plugs. I did have a short burst from the nr.1 plug only and a little end spark as I released the starter. All of these test we're done with the plugs removed from the block but still attached to the plug wires. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated..

Bobgobob, Puc, guys where do I go from here. I don't have a spare TCI, Puc and I were both pretty sure the one he sent me was in working shape and as far as I know at this minute it is still good. Thanks everyone for your help.

[YamahaLarry]

... All of these test we're done with the plugs removed from the block but still attached to the plug wires.

 

I know this is a really dumb question I am about to ask, but plugs are also grounded, right? I know it's an elementary question, but wasn't stated in your post, or at least not this one.

 

If you come back at me with sarcasm, it is perhaps warranted.

[Captaineasy520]

Yes, I grounded all four plugs to the heads...lol...geeze, I had to think about for a min..

[Flyinfool]

OK, a few more things to check.

Silly question but has to be asked, are you sure the kill switch in in the run position?

Have you tried starting with the side stand up and the clutch pulled in?

Is the engine turning over fine just no spark?

When you got the 10.36 volt reading while cranking, was that with the spark plugs in or out?

What is the voltage across the battery terminals while cranking?

 

These are the easy things to do before it is time to start getting into the wires.

[YamahaLarry]

Yes, I grounded all four plugs to the heads...lol...geeze, I had to think about for a min..

 

 

[videoarizona]

Sounds like kill switch or start switch intermittant. Spray cleaner and move switches. Then try to start while turning kill switch on/off. See if it fires...

[Captaineasy520]

Thanks to Flyinfool, Yamahalarry and another friend who is a fellow Arizona desert dweller, Videoarizona. I took all of your collective suggestions and tried them out. Here's what I came up with.

The plugs are out of the heads and I have each one grounded to the same. The voltage across the battery terminals is 12.86volts and drops to 12.06 while cranking and the longer I crank the lower the voltage goes. The starter turns even and strong Whit out the plugs screwed into the heads.

I sprayed a good amount of cleaner into both the starter and kill switch and then proceeded to do the same while cranking both while engaging the starter and kill switch..at first I began to get a very brief and faint spark at all four plugs, then, repeating the process I had nothing at all.

I also tried rasing the stand and engaging the clutch with a end result of no change...should I consider changing the retifier while I'm at it.

At this point I'm open to any and all suggestions. Thanks again gentlemen for all your help..

[Captaineasy520]

Thanks to Flyinfool, Yamahalarry and another friend who is a fellow Arizona desert dweller, Videoarizona. I took all of your collective suggestions and tried them out. Here's what I came up with.

The plugs are out of the heads and I have each one grounded to the same. The voltage across the battery terminals is 12.86volts and drops to 12.06 while cranking and the longer I crank the lower the voltage goes. The starter turns even and strong Whit out the plugs screwed into the heads.

I sprayed a good amount of cleaner into both the starter and kill switch and then proceeded to do the same while cranking both while engaging the starter and kill switch..at first I began to get a very brief and faint spark at all four plugs, then, repeating the process I had nothing at all.

I also tried rasing the stand and engaging the clutch with a end result of no change...should I consider changing the retifier while I'm at it.

At this point I'm open to any and all suggestions. Thanks again gentlemen for all your help..

 

Always be proud of who you are, live in peace with your personal history as it is just right for you.

Never look back, never regret, and never ever forget the wonders of God, the love of your true brothers, and leave a soft kiss of understanding on their brow before the day comes to morn you.

J.C.Davis 09/06/2018

[Marcarl]

Poor connection somewhere. Give all connections a tug to see if the wire comes out of the crimped end. I know we don't like doing that very much and are usually very careful no to, but hey, if you can pull it out it needs fixing anyways.

[Flyinfool]

The fact that the battery voltage stays above 12V and the voltage at the coils is down to 10 indicates a bad connection somewhere. Start at the battery terminal and also the other end of the grond wire where it connects to the block.

[WildBill1]

Main ground remove clean reattach check all coil connections remove clean.

[Captaineasy520]

So I guess I'm coming to the conclusion that the TCI, for all practical purposes is good at this point. If w ree have juice at the coils via the ignitor them the TCI is doing it's job.

One thing that bothers me is I think I read somewhere that the regulator receives a signal from the stator that is time fired thru the brown wires of the rectifier and finally thru the plugs. Don't hold me to this idea cause it just kinda flowed out my mouth before i could pinch my lips closed. Also, where are the three major grounds located on the bike, I've just heard about them but never seen them. Any ideas???

[rbig1]

well in front of the battery cover if you reach in on the left side there is a red wire that had rotted apart on mine. I believe its hooked to main fuse. I had to reach in there when the bike would die while riding home. Not a fun thing. its buy the head steering area

[YamahaLarry]

I am leaning to others suggestions in that most probable cause is a bad connection or maybe even a bad or burned wire someplace.

 

I hate electrical issues.

 

Had an issue on a VStar years ago. Sometimes it would start up, and others it would crank over fine but not fire. or at least not fire enough to start engine. But you could turn on the switch and roll start it with no problem. Had me very puzzled why it would do this. I checked all the wiring connections I could think of, checked ohms on coils and stator, and like you, watched voltage during turning over the engine. This went on for a couple months or so. Then one night I came across a test to do to check the coil pickup at the stator. Sure enough, that was the problem. I still don't understand why it would roll start other than maybe just the small voltage drop, even though it was minute, was just enough for a bad pickup to show it's ugly head.

 

Unfortunately, you can't but the coil pickup for the VStar without purchasing a new stator. So got a new one, wrestled for hours trying to get those phillips head screws loose that hold the stator inside the cover. Factory had red locktite on threads. Took heat and a lot of patience.

 

Anyhow, got it installed and problem solved.

 

Not saying this is your issue, but it does sounds eerie similar. I am not sure of what test you could do to check the pickup coils, but I am sure some of the gear heads on here have the answer.

[snyper316]

 

I hate electrical issues.

 

Unfortunately, you can't buy the coil pickup for the VStar without purchasing a new stator. So got a new one, wrestled for hours trying to get those phillips head screws loose that hold the stator inside the cover. Factory had red locktite on threads. Took heat and a lot of patience.

 

Anyhow, got it installed and problem solved.

 

Not saying this is your issue, but it does sounds eerie similar. I am not sure of what test you could do to check the pickup coils, but I am sure some of the gear heads on here have the answer.

 

Unfortunately the statement here don't hold true for our Ventures.. Not sure why the Pickup coils aren't included. When I have asked about them I get told they come with the Stator. I haven't been able to find a new set, So if anyone does know it would be nice to know the source for a just in case moment. I don't think the pickups fire thru the regulator tho. I could be wrong I just ran new wires back to the plug from my TCI Just to try and rule that out as my wires were kinda hacked. This winter I may just go ahead rewire the TCI to the coils because those were bad. I went thru and replaced the wires from the main wire harness to the coils but it still looks ugly to me. I like things clean tho, stupid OCD because she runs just fine!

[bongobobny]

OK, the 12 volts to the coil does NOT come from the TCI!! The TCI supplies a ground to the other side of the coil when it's time to spark that coil...

 

I am ass-u-me'ing that you stated you see 12 volts at the coils with ignition on, and when the starter motor is turning you are seeing it drop down to about 10 volts which should be somewhat normal. To clear up Jeff is the battery also dropping down some when the starter motor is turning over? I would expect a fully charged battery to drop down to maybe 11.5 volts when the starter motor is turning over but then recover to around 12.5 volts or more when you stop turning over the starter motor...

 

Once again with emphasis, the Stator and the R/R have absolutely NOTHING to do with the ignition circuit...

[steamer]

"Deja vu all over again" where have I seen this problem before....oh yea, It was me about 2 months ago. Only had power to the coils for a split second then nothing. Kind of like someone turning a switch on an off. Never did figure it out, kind of fixed itself. I hope you find a source to your problem. I never did. What I can tell you is as Bongbob said, it has nothing to do with the charging system. Had that go bad several weeks after the ignition problem. If you have good voltage at the battery you need to look at the ignition system and all the safety switches and all the connectors. I still think the problem I had had to do with a bad switch.

[WildBill1]

You know if you've checked the main grounds and got good contacts there your ignition switch could just be the culprit. I've heard of several members here having them changed out. Not a big deal to change out less than a hour job.

[bikenut]

pickup coils do not come with the stator

on my 1986 venture the parts is

Pick-Up Assembly

26H-81670-10-00

 

 

Hope this helps

Does sound like the Pick-up coils are bad

Good luck

[Sailor]

A friend had a similar problem. Turned out to be the kill switch on the kick stand.

[Flyinfool]

There is no test for the TCI. You have to eliminate everything else and then it must be the TCI. The only thing close to a test is to either try your TCI in a known good running bike or if you can borrow a known good TCI to try on your bike.

[Patch]

I am not instep with my 2 classmates I respect very much.

 

I think the answers are in the thread I suggested last time we discussed this. Then with that understanding the group can adapt to your situation.

 

I want to stress that I expect house voltage at the coils, always, and never more important then when 1: firing up 2 in the red line areas. Carl is in my opinion is on to one of perhaps many issues. You are bleeding current. This is an easy bypass.

 

Next you should check TCI switching. This is a path to ground therefore a test can be tinkered.

 

All the best

[Patch]

Sorry this took me a while to check up on..

 

I closed my last post stating I had fire to all four cylinders and was dancing a little jig. Well the dance is over the spark lasted about one turn of the starter, so at this point I'm rechecking Bongobob's and Puc's amoung others who offered up some great info.

I'll tell you what I've done and maybe someone can guide me thru this no fire nightmare. From the beginning:

Puc sent me a TCI, plug wires, caps, up grade for the fuse box. I installed everything plus a new stator, new battery, regulator/rectifier, no for all that I have checked out.

 

 

•Primary coil test at the coils: 1= 2.5, 2= 2.5, 3= 2.5, 4= 2.5 --- These test good

•Secondary test at the coils; 1=13.64, 2=13.46, 3=13.76, 4=13.58 --- These test good

•Test at the TCI plugs: for the ignition side I got an average of 2.6 ----- ? pickup coil generated

•On the pickup side in order: 112.6, 115.4, 113.9, 112.9 ------------ These test good

•I checked the red/white power lead into each coil with the battery reading an average of 12.30volts and a drop when engaging the starter to 10.36volts. ------- Disconnect head light for testing. Read only after you turn the switch to on, there is a sleep mode when crank isn’t rotating.

•I checked the regulator and it had no power at the brown wires while starter was engaged. And Only when starter was engaged?

 

•What we don’t see and perhaps was dealt with elsewhere: Emergency cut off/tip over switch. P 7-17 under inspection

•Side stand switch & relay'(s) P 7-18 &19 Both relays (stand and fuel) must be tested there are 2 test per.

 

•If these checkout we can proceed from there and if you like we’ll walk you through the bridge test for TCI switching.

 

So that's where I stand and I still have no spark to the plugs. I did have a short burst from the nr.1 plug only and a little end spark as I released the starter. All of these test we're done with the plugs removed from the block but still attached to the plug wires. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated..

Bobgobob, Puc, guys where do I go from here. I don't have a spare TCI, Puc and I were both pretty sure the one he sent me was in working shape and as far as I know at this minute it is still good. Thanks everyone for your help.

[videoarizona]

I think it's time to take the kill switch apart on the handlebar. I just don't see anything else causing these kind of problems that you haven't checked. If you've got 12 volts to the coils, and you can see the drop to ground which should fire the coils, the problem must be before that...but that doesn't make sense either.

 

I'm going with the switches....time to take them apart. Be aware of little pieces in there...take your time and take pics for your reference. Can't find the posting that ha the pictures and write up but I know both switches are covered here somewhere...

[WildBill1]

Ignition Switch......