Darksiding '18 Venture/Eluder

[Freebird]

I've never really given Darksiding a chance. I did put one on my '05 Royal Star Venture but the recommended size tire fit fine but the overall height was different than the stock motorcycle tire and lowered the bike about an inch. I got it from a friend and it was already mounted on a wheel so I put it on, took one ride around 4 miles, took it back off and went with another motorcycle tire. Had it been the correct height, I would have given it a chance.

 

I had the leveling links on the '05 to raise the rear of the bike an inch. The car tire lowered it an inch so I was right back where I started and wanted the rear of the bike raised again.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is that I would be somewhat willing to try darksiding on the '18 ONLY if there was a tire that does not lower the rear end. Art commented that his speedometer was dead on with his tire so that tells me that it is not as tall as the stock tire. That is an immediate disqualifier for my use. Unless I am thinking backward and the tire size and speedo correlation. I'm thinking that may be the case. I know that in years past, when I put larger tires on my 4X4 trucks, they would cause me to go faster than the speedometer indicated. Since the bike indicates a higher speed than you are actually traveling, maybe a smaller tire would actually add some speedometer correction. Doesn't matter though, I still don't want the rear end lowered.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Freebird

[ChiefGunner]

I've never really given Darksiding a chance. I did put one on my '05 Royal Star Venture but the recommended size tire fit fine but the overall height was different than the stock motorcycle tire and lowered the bike about an inch. I got it from a friend and it was already mounted on a wheel so I put it on, took one ride around 4 miles, took it back off and went with another motorcycle tire. Had it been the correct height, I would have given it a chance.

 

I had the leveling links on the '05 to raise the rear of the bike an inch. The car tire lowered it an inch so I was right back where I started and wanted the rear of the bike raised again.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is that I would be somewhat willing to try darksiding on the '18 ONLY if there was a tire that does not lower the rear end. Art commented that his speedometer was dead on with his tire so that tells me that it is not as tall as the stock tire. That is an immediate disqualifier for my use. Unless I am thinking backward and the tire size and speedo correlation.

 

The closet to stock height is a 205/55r16. From the chart, at 65mph, you are lees than 1mph faster than stock.

[RonK]

I've never really given Darksiding a chance. I did put one on my '05 Royal Star Venture but the recommended size tire fit fine but the overall height was different than the stock motorcycle tire and lowered the bike about an inch. I got it from a friend and it was already mounted on a wheel so I put it on, took one ride around 4 miles, took it back off and went with another motorcycle tire. Had it been the correct height, I would have given it a chance.

 

I had the leveling links on the '05 to raise the rear of the bike an inch. The car tire lowered it an inch so I was right back where I started and wanted the rear of the bike raised again.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is that I would be somewhat willing to try darksiding on the '18 ONLY if there was a tire that does not lower the rear end. Art commented that his speedometer was dead on with his tire so that tells me that it is not as tall as the stock tire. That is an immediate disqualifier for my use. Unless I am thinking backward and the tire size and speedo correlation. I'm thinking that may be the case. I know that in years past, when I put larger tires on my 4X4 trucks, they would cause me to go faster than the speedometer indicated. Since the bike indicates a higher speed than you are actually traveling, maybe a smaller tire would actually add some speedometer correction. Doesn't matter though, I still don't want the rear end lowered.

 

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I think you are talking about several things here that I'll try to organize (at least for my mind). First on tire sizes: An OEM 200/55R16 is 24.66" in diameter. This is the measurement that determines the ride height and wheel RPMs in relation to the engine RPMs. A 195/55R16 is 24.44" in diameter. This would lower the bike slightly about .11" since it's only the radius that touches the ground that matters for speed/rpm/height. The upper part of the diameter (or the unweighted radius under the fender) does not affect the bike height.

 

A 205/55R16 tire is 24.88" in diameter. So will it cause the bike to be different from stock? Yes, it will be .11" higher off the ground. That's about one-tenth of an inch. How will that affect the speedometer? At 65 mph the larger tire's actual speed will be .57 mph faster than the speedo indicated when with the stock tire. That's because the speedo is based on the RPMs of the wheel, but the road speed (or gps calibrated speed) would be a little more since the tire propels the bike farther along with each rotation. There could be a clearance to the fender problem, or not, if the stock clearance was really small to start in that the tire has about a 1/2" wider section width, which would be 1/4" inch on each side.

 

So to sum up, a larger diameter tire makes the bike travel faster than it did based on the speedo. But the larger tire will only correct a speedo that is reading faster than actual speed. The gps is your friend.

 

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[RonK]

The phots are of his '18 SVTC, he has had older versions too

 

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I can't seem to locate the photos of the Venture with a bike tire on it. I can't seem to find it on the Facebook site. Regardless, the photo I saw somewhere was not of an '18 Venture but an earlier year. As each year phase is different, I don't know if the wider sectioned tires will fit on the '18.

 

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[Freebird]

The pictures posted here in this thread are of his '18 Star Venture. I can tell by the mufflers for one thing. Of course, the picture also shows the belt drive on the right side rather than the shaft drive on the left side as the '99 - '13 Royal Star Venture has.

 

If the car tire is actually slightly taller than the stock motorcycle tire, then the little difference it makes on the speedo would be a good thing. So, as you state, what needs to be determined is whether or not the 205/55R16 will fit. These bike's speedometers, as will most Yamahas, actually show you to be going slightly faster than you really are. Yes, I have confirmed that with a GPS. On the '99 - '13 RSV, the speedo reads about 8% high. I haven't actually calculated the speedo no the '18 but I know that it reads at least a little faster than you are actually moving.

 

I admit that .11 inch lower would probably be fine but it would further through the speedometer off, even though very slightly. The larger tire would be better all the way around it if will clear.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Freebird

[RonK]

The pictures posted here in this thread are of his '18 Star Venture. I can tell by the mufflers for one thing. Of course, the picture also shows the belt drive on the right side rather than the shaft drive on the left side as the '99 - '13 Royal Star Venture has.

 

 

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I don't think so. My Eluder doesn't look like that. The pictures of '18 Ventures don't look like that either. It's some other year bike.

 

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[Freebird]

OK...well here is his post on Facebook.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/781935901987573/search/?query=205%2F50%2F16

[cowpuc]

Dont know if this may help but attached is a video of @jakester and I checking out the car tire on his Wing.. I did a BUNCH of followup on this in hopes of doing some dark siding on my Mk1 1st Gen and that ended up showing simply not enough room. Not just the swing arm but the shape of the subframe just wont allow for darksiding.. I have never looked at the Mk2 close enough to see if darksiding is possible there but I have my doubts.. If I recall correctly, the 2nd Gen's have a 15 inch tire on the rear and am thinking the SVTC's have a 16 inch like the older 1st Gens so I am not sure how much comparing those two will help.

If I am right in that,,, perhaps checking out a tire like Bill (jakester) has mounted for actual demintions??

Puc

 

[ChiefGunner]

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I can't seem to locate the photos of the Venture with a bike tire on it. I can't seem to find it on the Facebook site. Regardless, the photo I saw somewhere was not of an '18 Venture but an earlier year. As each year phase is different, I don't know if the wider sectioned tires will fit on the '18.

 

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I spoke to my dealership and their top tech yesterday. The new SVTC has plenty of room WIDTH wise to handle a 205 series tire. I’m still checking on wheel well height to accommodate the taller profile.

[RonK]

I spoke to my dealership and their top tech yesterday. The new SVTC has plenty of room WIDTH wise to handle a 205 series tire. I’m still checking on wheel well height to accommodate the taller profile.

 

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That's what my looking under the fender with a mirror shows if you are talking section width. The tread width is no problem either as it's less than the section width. I can see more than a half inch and since we only need to use a quarter of an inch on each side, there should be no problem. The 205/55 will also slightly improve a speedometer that shows more speed than the bike is actually traveling. I think my speedo is maybe 1.5 mph fast on the dial. My odometer reads about 2.4% over actual distance. I can also live with being one-tenth of an inch taller--although since I usually run about 30# in it, it may not even be the full one-tenth taller since the OEM is being run at factory suggested 41#.

 

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[ChiefGunner]

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That's what my looking under the fender with a mirror shows if you are talking section width. The tread width is no problem either as it's less than the section width. I can see more than a half inch and since we only need to use a quarter of an inch on each side, there should be no problem. The 205/55 will also slightly improve a speedometer that shows more speed than the bike is actually traveling. I think my speedo is maybe 1.5 mph fast on the dial. My odometer reads about 2.4% over actual distance. I can also live with being one-tenth of an inch taller--although since I usually run about 30# in it, it may not even be the full one-tenth taller since the OEM is being run at factory suggested 41#.

 

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Im trying to stick with an MC tire. Looking at a 200/60r16. It has a higher load rating AND speed rating than the OEM.

I know there’s plenty of width room. I’m trying to confirm the 1/2” taller radius needed.

[Freebird]

I'll likely stick with a motorcycle tire also.

[RonK]

Im trying to stick with an MC tire. Looking at a 200/60r16. It has a higher load rating AND speed rating than the OEM.

I know there’s plenty of width room. I’m trying to confirm the 1/2” taller radius needed.

 

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Typically the 60 tire would be about .4" taller in the upper radius. The part that concerns me is when in full suspension compression. Will it bottom out? Hard to test that unless you put one on while you have a passenger and drop off a rounded curb onto the street and listen for the noise. That's why I always want to hear from others who have done it. It's why I value anecdotal reports so much. My RoadStar will bottom out when I have a passenger and with our combined weight of about 550#. I don't worry about it as I rarely ever have that hard of a drop. A pothole would do it, but then a pothole at 60 mph could blow out the whole tire and rim.

 

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[RonK]

OK...well here is his post on Facebook.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/781935901987573/search/?query=205%2F50%2F16

 

 

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I'm not used to Facebook, in fact I can't even figure out how to post on it. But that link you posted gets me to a Facebook site, I click on the Venture area, but I can't find his post. How do I do that?

 

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[RonK]

I'll likely stick with a motorcycle tire also.

 

 

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It's always best if someone uses what makes them comfortable. Although some folks are "deer in the headlights" right off the bat. The Honda service manager where I get all my tires mounted will do my ct but states he'll never ride a bike with them on. (I haven't told him I've gone 150,000 miles so far without a single problem with my ct. on three of my bikes.) Anyway, he said two guys on GoldWings said they put on ct and couldn't make a turn and went off the road. Of course this is preposterous to blame that on a ct. They just screwed up with their riding and wanted an excuse. I can show you all day videos of guys riding the Dragon with cruisers or tourers and scraping hard parts along with going faster than all but full out racing bikes on ct and never slipping or having problem one.

 

But again, this is a sport for fun and part of that is knowing you have what you think is the best for you.

 

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[ChiefGunner]

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It's always best if someone uses what makes them comfortable. Although some folks are "deer in the headlights" right off the bat. The Honda service manager where I get all my tires mounted will do my ct but states he'll never ride a bike with them on. (I haven't told him I've gone 150,000 miles so far without a single problem with my ct. on three of my bikes.) Anyway, he said two guys on GoldWings said they put on ct and couldn't make a turn and went off the road. Of course this is preposterous to blame that on a ct. They just screwed up with their riding and wanted an excuse. I can show you all day videos of guys riding the Dragon with cruisers or tourers and scraping hard parts along with going faster than all but full out racing bikes on ct and never slipping or having problem one.

 

But again, this is a sport for fun and part of that is knowing you have what you think is the best for you.

 

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No argument there Ron. As a matter of fact, the guy who holds the record on the Dragons Tail is a Darksided Goldwing rider. Motorcycle riding is all about the risks the rider is willing to assume. Whether it be “ape hangar” handlebars or “suicide shifters” or tires... it’s a matter of personal taste and what they feel comfortable with. I was willing to give Darkside a try because I couldn’t find ANY instance of catastrophic failure. Unfortunately I did find one, and that was enough for the wife (and I agreed) to NIX the idea. Having said that, a group rally with another forum I went to had an 80 year old guy riding a Darksided 09 Stratoliner and was tearing up the corners out in Maggie Valley. I was behind him and it was impressive to say the least.

For now at least, I’ll stay in the “light”.

[RonK]

No argument there Ron. As a matter of fact, the guy who holds the record on the Dragons Tail is a Darksided Goldwing rider.

 

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You're probably referring to Yellow Wolf. He ran Darkside on his GoldWing 1,000 miles on the Dragon in 24 hours. Not a record that will be broken soon.

 

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[Freebird]

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I'm not used to Facebook, in fact I can't even figure out how to post on it. But that link you posted gets me to a Facebook site, I click on the Venture area, but I can't find his post. How do I do that?

 

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hmmm....don't know. That link takes me directly to the post about the tire on his '18 Star Venture. I just didn't want to argue about it not being a picture of the '18 Star Venture but it is. Maybe you have to be logged in to Facebook for the link to take you to the post. I'm not sure. One way is to go to the star venture facebook page and then there is a search box. I found it by simply putting the text of the post that was copied here ... in fact, I just entered the tire size that is posted and that post came up.

 

Maybe the picture looks different to you because of the mud flap but I actually compared it to my '18 and though I have a hitch on mine and can't get that exact angle, it is definitely a picture of the Star Venture. Like I said before, the mufflers are one clue and the fact that the drive pulley is on the right side is the second clue. I don't know of another large touring bike with the drive on the right side. Some of the Harley Sportsters do. That and the fact that he says it is a picture of the car tire on his 18 Star Venture.

[RonK]

...

 

Maybe the picture looks different to you because of the mud flap but I actually compared it to my '18 and though I have a hitch on mine and can't get that exact angle, it is definitely a picture of the Star Venture. Like I said before, the mufflers are one clue and the fact that the drive pulley is on the right side is the second clue. I don't know of another large touring bike with the drive on the right side. Some of the Harley Sportsters do. That and the fact that he says it is a picture of the car tire on his 18 Star Venture.

 

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I believe that's it. I didn't realize there was a mudflap on it.

 

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[uhfradarwill]

What happens, god forbid, when you get into an accident that's not your fault but you are cited for improper equipment??

[RonK]

What happens, god forbid, when you get into an accident that's not your fault but you are cited for improper equipment??

 

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I've never heard of any insurance company saying they would not insure if a car tire was used. I have read of a dozen riders who have asked. The only requirement for tires would be that they are DOT approved which all those tires are. I suppose you could get a ticket if you had bald tires which would be unsafe and they were what caused the accident. When my mc tire blew out on the freeway into 3 separate pieces and the resulting crash totaled my GoldWing, the adjuster never even looked at it.

 

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[Greek]

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That tire has the exact dimensions as I wanted and hoped it would fit. Have you actually put the tire on yet?

 

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Her ya go...

and YES these are on my 2018 SVTC rides great. this the second bike on which I've gone to the dark side. Love it, better braking, traction, and more sure footed one my one mile of sandy dirt road in S.E. GA I also used Dyna Beads to balance the tire... Love these.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Greek

[Greek]

Well, despite my vocal opposition to “Darksiding”; after watching closely from the rear and 80 y/o guy tear up the corners in Maggie Valley on a “Darksided” 09 Stratoliner I was really impressed. Did the research for a tire and found one but can’t find ANY MC or tire shop near me who will put it on the rim. 🤨

I’m over 13k miles and due for a rear tire but DO NOT want to pay $300+ for a tire.

if I have to stick with a MC tire I’ve found a much larger selection available if I’m will to go with 200/60r16 instead of the stock 200/55r16.

Any comments of suggestions??

 

 

https://www.tires-easy.com/205-55-16/achilles-tires/atr-sport/tirecode/MAA205516W

 

This what I went with

 

[Greek]

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Thanks for the info. Is his Venture an '18? He speaks of changing every year. Older Ventures may not have the same clearance.

 

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Look closely at his photos, earlier version of the Venture was shaft drive, his photos show the right side belt drive

[RonK]

https://www.tires-easy.com/205-55-16/achilles-tires/atr-sport/tirecode/MAA205516W

 

This what I went with

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114672

 

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This is great news. There are at least two bikes now that have done this size so I don't expect not to use the 205 when I replace my OEM. Do you realize you paid $300. less than a new OEM from a dealer? In addition, I suspect the tire will outperform the mc tire in all aspects.

 

(By the way, was it easier to get the wheel off with your bike laying on its side?)

 

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