Rottella diesel engine oil

[leo3wheel]

Looks like new Shell ROTELLA T6 5W-40 Full Synthetic Diesel Engine Oil formula still meets or exceeds requirements of specification JASO MA/MA2.

 

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Shell-ROTELLA-T6-5W-40-Full-Synthetic-Diesel-Engine-Oil-1-Gallon-550045347-/610706169?utm_source=bing-ads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=product_feed

[BlueSky]

It seems some are using Rotella in their autos too. If I remember correctly?? the reason auto oils don't have zinc any more is because it is not good for the cats and rotella has zinc which a high revving motorcycle engine needs. Auto engines can get by without zinc now because they all have roller cams that don't have as much friction. In fact if you fill a newly rebuilt flat tappet engine with modern oil, it will wipe out the cam. You have to use special breakin oil to avoid that.

[Prairiehammer]

I just found out by a very well known shop that is very skilled at building race engines that Rottella is good for break in period because of the zinc and phosphorus for a gas engine but for daily use will cause extreme sludge and clog oil ports on a gas engine fyi.

 

The zinc and phosphorus are precisely why Rotella is good for motorcycle engines with transmission lubed by motor oil. The zinc and phosphorus are beneficial for the transmission gear mesh.

[zagger]

Been using Rotella T4 15W-40 for many years. Buy it in 2.5 gallon containers from Farm and Fleet. No idea if it is screwing everything up. Seems to run fine.

zag

[Patch]

I'm not sure that's totally correct. I seem to recall reading a lengthy technical article that included specific information about some of the oil molecules breaking down when subjected to mechanical stress. Modern synthetic oils containing molecules less prone to that happening.

That said, I know over the road diesels get -lots- of miles between oil changes.

 

In passing: 327 318 heads with the mileage you noted were past due. The sludge that was mentioned in both post was common back in the day.

 

Sludge is just a marketing term, "if you use our brand and follow our recommendations you will stop the formation of..."

 

We blame the oil, oil brands blame the other brands; "sludge" is just a nice way of lying with the aim of increasing market share.

 

Oil among other things is a carrier pumped through a harsh and volatile environment. #2 reason for sludge, valve stems, valve guides, valve seals & piston rings. In short blowby. Some blowby is expected but it can be perpetuating. This happens as pressure increases seeking the path of least resistance during that power stroke. The dirty result of combustion is abrasive, which is of course carbon.

 

OK we expect this so we plan for this and develop a PM schedule.

 

When we display neglect we become the cause of the sludge, not the oil! This suggests that we are the #1 reason.

 

If best practice is to not insult the client; then educate him/her within a margin of profit.

 

Crankcases are subject to pulses that cause both highs and low pressures. The pressures can cause a weak crankcase gasket or seal to slow leak when engine is not running, or rapidly when the engine is running and; the low pressure can or will draw in unmetered & unfiltered air into that crankcase.

 

When this happens the oil becomes a liquid grinding compound which increases the ware - on or where tight tolerances have been factored; this increases blowby very quickly and depreciates and reverses the expected caricature of any oil choice.

 

Synthetics are a good choice especially for a long distance rider because it has expected extended life cycle, but, if the rest of the maintenance program sucks.... ..,

Patch

[vzuden]

 

OK we expect this so we plan for this and develop a PM schedule.

 

When we display neglect we become the cause of the sludge, not the oil! This suggests that we are the #1 reason.

Patch

 

Many years ago I was employed at a new car dealership and we had a car traded in that was only a few years old with really low miles on it. It resold quickly at a most likely higher than normal price due to the low miles. It came back in a short time smoking and burning oil. We took the valve cover off and it was completely full of sludge.

We eventually found that the original owner followed a strict oil change interval of every 2,000 miles. The problem was it took her two years or more to accumulate those miles. Not many understand the need to change it by time or miles elapsed whichever comes first

[BlueSky]

At least one engine that I am aware of, a Toyata V6, tended to sludge up with the engine failing due to too small cooling water passages in the heads. This was done to promote clean burning for emissions reasons. But, the oil got too hot, turned to sludge and the engine failed. Toyota denied engine warranty claims for a while even though owners had receipts for their oil changes until they finally realized it was a design problem. Engineers push engine designs trying to achieve lower emissions, better fuel economy, and more hp and sometimes it causes problems.

 

Way back when 1976, I bought a used 74 Ford Stationwagon 400cu in V8 with about 40k miles on it from the chevy dealer. I talked to the second owner who said he bought it with 29k miles and changed the oil every 3k miles. He said the only complaint he had was with the gas mileage, 9mpg. I recurved the distributor centrifugal and vacuum advance and it got 16mpg on a trip. Anyway, it started smoking on startup not too long after i bought it. I thought, no big deal, I'll replace the valve seals and fix it. But, when I removed the valve covers, I found lots of sludge as well as worn out valve guides. I assume the original owner did not bother changing the oil the first 29k miles. After that when I looked at used cars, I tried to look down the oil fill tube to see how clean the head was.

[RandyR]

At least one engine that I am aware of, a Toyata V6, tended to sludge up with the engine failing due to too small cooling water passages in the heads. This was done to promote clean burning for emissions reasons. But, the oil got too hot, turned to sludge and the engine failed. Toyota denied engine warranty claims for a while even though owners had receipts for their oil changes until they finally realized it was a design problem. Engineers push engine designs trying to achieve lower emissions, better fuel economy, and more hp and sometimes it causes problems.

.

 

I wonder if the heads on that Toyota where designed by Yamaha? Several of the early Toyota engines had heads by Yamaha. If I recall correctly.

[BlueSky]

Many years ago I was employed at a new car dealership and we had a car traded in that was only a few years old with really low miles on it. It resold quickly at a most likely higher than normal price due to the low miles. It came back in a short time smoking and burning oil. We took the valve cover off and it was completely full of sludge.

We eventually found that the original owner followed a strict oil change interval of every 2,000 miles. The problem was it took her two years or more to accumulate those miles. Not many understand the need to change it by time or miles elapsed whichever comes first

 

That's hard to believe. I wouldn't believe the oil was changed unless it could be proven. Maybe if the oil was the old Quaker State?

 

If that is true, my truck and car are building up a lot of sludge because I change the oil every 5k miles and sometimes I only drive them 3k miles in a year. 150k and 111k miles on them.

[Patch]

Any body remember the warming butterfly that the Brains at Mopar came up with in 70?

 

Mopar was my first true Love, but that piece of junk warmer they came with on the driver side exhaust manifold put a lot of 383 and 440s in the yards inventory after just one year. When diagnosing the problems it would lead us to find where the losses were coming from which lead us to the rocker settings. That head would be a mountain of crud! This was due to the excessive heat and back pressure caused by the brainfart gadget Mopar shipped with.

 

In my early days Valvoline was top shelf and few of us could believe that it was an oil based and maintenance problem, as we were told to believe.

[djh3]

Any body remember the warming butterfly that the Brains at Mopar came up with in 70?

 

Mopar was my first true Love, but that piece of junk warmer they came with on the driver side exhaust manifold put a lot of 383 and 440s in the yards inventory after just one year. .

 

You talking about the heat riser they had in the manifold to promote warm up? Everybody had them, but MOPAR used to rattle and blow those metal gaskets out. The Cheby ones would freeze up, I dont recall any issues with my Ford. Now the "lean burn" stuff Chrysler came up with...omg

[Patch]

The butterfly would seize closed, they were spring loaded on a solid casting and simply designed to fail. The idea was to flow quickly through the intake manifolds promoting gas vapor, in order to reduce cold wet combustion; which in turn reduces oil, increases friction and cold start cylinder wall scoring!

[videoarizona]

 

Chrysler Cordoba. 318. Lean Burn with the bakelight carb.

 

Fantastic car...shame Chrysler had to saddle it with the great 318 and lousy emissions crap. 18:1 air/fuel ratio???

 

I loved mine except for the engine.[/color]

[BlueSky]

I and my buddies cut out those warm up butterflies. We didn't want the resistance in the exhaust to keep us from winning our drag races.

[Patch]

 

Chrysler Cordoba. 318. Lean Burn with the bakelight carb.

 

Fantastic car...shame Chrysler had to saddle it with the great 318 and lousy emissions crap. 18:1 air/fuel ratio???

 

I loved mine except for the engine.[/color]

 

That's an interesting guess but likely not.

Not the point of this thread but, 14.7:1 is the benchmark which today in modern engines can be achieved with some consistency below WOT..

Take Luvmy40s engine he sees lean I see both rich and maybe some lean (I'm guessing now) around higher rpm maybe 4 - 5000 range leanish. There are ways to prove out the lean/rich bands providing we understand the process of combustion.

 

With a carburated engine 14.7:1 is a fleeting target range we likely all see it at some point but shoot past or stay something below it.

Given the choice I would stay just low of it for a street ride cruiser or touring bike, (liquid or air cooled makes a difference) but out on the H.W. where my rpms tend to steady; I would like to be just as close to it as is possible for both range and performance reason.

 

That to me means to rich on a steady rpm will carbon up my cambers, too lean and I will cook up my chambers and rings!

This is why standard jetting is the best average and over sizing should be lead by a clear goal/target and in small patient increments.

[Patch]

I just found out by a very well known shop that is very skilled at building race engines that Rottella is good for break in period because of the zinc and phosphorus for a gas engine but for daily use will cause extreme sludge and clog oil ports on a gas engine fyi.

 

 

This turned out to be a pretty open sharing of thoughts Tufftom4, thanks for starting it and not objecting to our wondering.

[videoarizona]

That's an interesting guess but likely not.

Not the point of this thread but, 14.7:1 is the benchmark which today in modern engines can be achieved with some consistency below WOT..

Take Luvmy40s engine he sees lean I see both rich and maybe some lean (I'm guessing now) around higher rpm maybe 4 - 5000 range leanish. There are ways to prove out the lean/rich bands providing we understand the process of combustion.

 

With a carburated engine 14.7:1 is a fleeting target range we likely all see it at some point but shoot past or stay something below it.

Given the choice I would stay just low of it for a street ride cruiser or touring bike, (liquid or air cooled makes a difference) but out on the H.W. where my rpms tend to steady; I would like to be just as close to it as is possible for both range and performance reason.

 

That to me means to rich on a steady rpm will carbon up my cambers, too lean and I will cook up my chambers and rings!

This is why standard jetting is the best average and over sizing should be lead by a clear goal/target and in small patient increments.

 

 

Well...my guess was accurate ...sorry. I understand what you are saying with respect to motorcycles but my comment was regarding the Chrysler Lean Burn System.

 

Chrysler was the leader in Lean Burn technology. Much of what they did is in use today...making cars far more environmentally sound. LB technology can bring air/fuel ratios as high as 65:1. Hondas have run 22:1...instead of the optimum 14.6:1. Biodiesels (the new engines)are also up there in lean burn tech.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean-burn

 

Interesting stuff...but 30-40 years ago...it didn't fly. The tech wasn't there...

[Patch]

Well...my guess was accurate ...sorry. I understand what you are saying with respect to motorcycles but my comment was regarding the Chrysler Lean Burn System.

 

Chrysler was the leader in Lean Burn technology. Much of what they did is in use today...making cars far more environmentally sound. LB technology can bring air/fuel ratios as high as 65:1. Hondas have run 22:1...instead of the optimum 14.6:1. Biodiesels (the new engines)are also up there in lean burn tech.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean-burn

 

Interesting stuff...but 30-40 years ago...it didn't fly. The tech wasn't there...

 

Thanks for the link I was actually brushing up last night. Regarding the volumes above which interest me, there seems to be some application specific rules that are being rewritten?

There is quite a bit of information in that link which will take me some time to go through and get my head around, and I'll say this, my kind of reading..

 

One note that I quickly picked up on "Lean-burn gas engines are almost always turbocharged, resulting in high power and torque figures not achievable with stoichiometric engines due to high combustion temperatures."

 

So yes in the above application. I actually wrote last night (wee hours) about increasing fuel for the spooled turbo when hauling up hill, in that conversation the application there is no fuel trim logic to rely on.

 

As much as the combustion pressures are related to a given fuel ratio, we can achieve more through design now because we can model easier and also we can read results as well as double check or confirm them in almost any small shop that wants to go there. Not the case back in the eras we had been discussing.

 

Thanks Videoarizona

[BlueSky]

Lean burn may be one reason Ford is using so many turbocharged small engines in their vehicles now. The 2.7L turbo V6 F150 has the highest mpg ratings of the full size gasoline powered trucks I think.

[saddlebum]

Never a problem with Rotella in any thing I have had. If you want sludge in your motor try Quaker State oil. That stuff is crap.

I have been a Mechanic for over 40 years working on most anything that moves and the only engines I ever saw full of sludge ran Quaker State. Guess there is a reason why engines run quieter on Quaker state I assume it has to be the high varnish content.

[M61A1MECH]

I have been a Mechanic for over 40 years working on most anything that moves and the only engines I ever saw full of sludge ran Quaker State. Guess there is a reason why engines run quieter on Quaker state I assume it has to be the high varnish content.

 

I recall from years ago that Quaker State has a high paraffin content and it was rumored that the paraffin was the source of sludge found in engines using Quaker State.

[saddlebum]

I recall from years ago that Quaker State has a high paraffin content and it was rumored that the paraffin was the source of sludge found in engines using Quaker State.

years ago back in the late eighties, I was fleet maint manager for a fleet of trucks. A rep from Quaker state came to see me about supplying me with bulk oil. When I commented that I was not interested because of the high varnish and paraffin content in the oil. His comment was simply that yes their content was a bit higher than most oils but that he could give me a better price point then who I was using at the time. Naturally I still declined.