Fork Overhaul

[dna9656]

OK,

I got the fork apart today following the instructions provided on www.Venturers.org. When removing the caps on top of the tubes the preload (the springs pushing up in the fork cap) was pretty WEAK! I haven't done a side by side comparison of the springs yet but it's first on the list for tonight AFTER I change the read brake rotors on the Sebring.

I drained an uneven amount of greenish fork oil from each tube. I found a pair of progressive (TYPE, NOT BRAND NAME OF SPRING) in each tube. I purchased two 16 OZ. of Lucas 15wt. fork oil. The tubes are completely disassembled (almost) so I will be working on them this week.

Edited July 16, 2018 by dna9656

[skydoc_17]

Hey Doug,

First off, I commend you for doing this project on your bike! This is one of the more complicated things that should be done to our Ventures, and many shy away from it. You didn't mention why you decided to rebuild the forks on your bike, but some of the issues would be "bottoming out" during braking, and seal leakage. You also didn't mention if you are going to reuse the old springs. If they are stock, then by all means, replace them. If they are aftermarket, and bottoming out was not a problem for you then I suggest that you place the springs side by side. If one spring is longer than the other by more than an inch, then I would suggest that you replace them. If they are close to the same length, and bottoming out was not the reason for the rebuild, then they should be OK to reuse. There are two methods for measuring the amount of fork oil to install in the forks after rebuild. The first is the "Volume" method, and the second is the "Measurement" method.

Because the lower Aluminum fork tubes are castings, there could be quite a difference in the amount of fluid, (or volume) from the right fork lower to the left. After trying both methods, I personally found the "Measurement" method gave me the best results. Best results meaning smoother action of the forks as they compress, equal compression of the fork tubes as a set, and much less chance of bottoming out during a panic stop. If the fork tubes compress at different rates, (especially during a panic stop) the bike will drift to the right or left depending on which tube has the less resistance. Here is a description of each method. A: Volume Method- You measure out the same amount of fork oil for each fork tube, no matter how much it changes the height of the fork oil from one tube to another. This is the easiest method. B: Measurement Method- You fill each fork tube until you can equally measure the same amount of "air space" from one tube to the other. (Measuring from the top of the fork tube down to contact with the fork oil) This is also where you can adjust the firmness of the movement of the forks. I weigh about 185 lbs. and ride mostly one up these days. I left 7 inches of air space when I did the measurement. (It took me a few tries, removing and adding oil to find the "sweet spot") If you are heavier, add more oil. Lighter, remove some oil. (The same measurement amount in each tube) If the forks are bouncy, ie: too soft (PO GO Sticking) add more oil. If your teeth clunk together every time you go across a set of tracks, ie: to firm remove some oil. The other two areas where adjustments can be made are the preload spacer which is between the top of the spring and the fork tube cap, and the thickness of the fork oil. A small length of 3/4" schedule 40 PVC pipe works great as a preload spacer, and can be trimmed easily to find the "sweet spot" of the fork action. Lastly, by all means don't forget to replace the fork seals! I personally have never had very good luck using aftermarket fork seals, but some have. I'll leave that selection up to you. If you hit the sweet spot on the first try, consider this a Praise Jesus Miracle! It took me an entire weekend of oil level adjustment and preload spacer adjustment to get my bike "just right". Many front fork rebuilds later, I can usually get it pretty close in one long day now. Be patient with yourself, and you will reap the rewards of years of trouble free riding for the effort! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Good luck with this project Doug, You're a Hero in my book!

Earl

[dna9656]

Hey Doug,

First off, I commend you for doing this project on your bike! This is one of the more complicated things that should be done to our Ventures, and many shy away from it. You didn't mention why you decided to rebuild the forks on your bike, but some of the issues would be "bottoming out" during braking, and seal leakage. You also didn't mention if you are going to reuse the old springs. If they are stock, then by all means, replace them. If they are aftermarket, and bottoming out was not a problem for you then I suggest that you place the springs side by side. If one spring is longer than the other by more than an inch, then I would suggest that you replace them. If they are close to the same length, and bottoming out was not the reason for the rebuild, then they should be OK to reuse. There are two methods for measuring the amount of fork oil to install in the forks after rebuild. The first is the "Volume" method, and the second is the "Measurement" method.

Because the lower Aluminum fork tubes are castings, there could be quite a difference in the amount of fluid, (or volume) from the right fork lower to the left. After trying both methods, I personally found the "Measurement" method gave me the best results. Best results meaning smoother action of the forks as they compress, equal compression of the fork tubes as a set, and much less chance of bottoming out during a panic stop. If the fork tubes compress at different rates, (especially during a panic stop) the bike will drift to the right or left depending on which tube has the less resistance. Here is a description of each method. A: Volume Method- You measure out the same amount of fork oil for each fork tube, no matter how much it changes the height of the fork oil from one tube to another. This is the easiest method. B: Measurement Method- You fill each fork tube until you can equally measure the same amount of "air space" from one tube to the other. (Measuring from the top of the fork tube down to contact with the fork oil) This is also where you can adjust the firmness of the movement of the forks. I weigh about 185 lbs. and ride mostly one up these days. I left 7 inches of air space when I did the measurement. (It took me a few tries, removing and adding oil to find the "sweet spot") If you are heavier, add more oil. Lighter, remove some oil. (The same measurement amount in each tube) If the forks are bouncy, ie: too soft (PO GO Sticking) add more oil. If your teeth clunk together every time you go across a set of tracks, ie: to firm remove some oil. The other two areas where adjustments can be made are the preload spacer which is between the top of the spring and the fork tube cap, and the thickness of the fork oil. A small length of 3/4" schedule 40 PVC pipe works great as a preload spacer, and can be trimmed easily to find the "sweet spot" of the fork action. Lastly, by all means don't forget to replace the fork seals! I personally have never had very good luck using aftermarket fork seals, but some have. I'll leave that selection up to you. If you hit the sweet spot on the first try, consider this a Praise Jesus Miracle! It took me an entire weekend of oil level adjustment and preload spacer adjustment to get my bike "just right". Many front fork rebuilds later, I can usually get it pretty close in one long day now. Be patient with yourself, and you will reap the rewards of years of trouble free riding for the effort! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Good luck with this project Doug, You're a Hero in my book!

Earl

 

Holy Smokes Earl! What a post!

Have you ever seen those concrete drains in a asphalt parking lot that have too long 'wings" and a dip in the middle? Kinda like a parenthesis with the curve taken from the top and bottom. As I rode over one at an oblique angle the fork bottomed out; it was worse when the angle got closer to the 90., Absolutely no feel of any oil action (like a shock absorber), so when I pulled the springs I could see they were the progressive style. I haven;t compared them side to side or measured them yet. My eldest son (in his early 30s) got his tonsils remover last week and had bleeding complications this weekend and ended up in surgery to stop it today so I haven't had the opportunity to look at it. It has been a BIG DAY here.

I have no proof of what I'm about to say but I bet they use the distance from the top method on the assembly line as it's faster....easier. I found an appreciable difference in the amount of oil from one tube to the other; due to a seal being bad more so than a poor filling job. I bought all my parts (the 4 Yamaha recommends be replace & those are all I have on hand) from Yamaha, and a set of new progressive springs from the Progressive Spring Company. Are there others you would replace? I'm using the instructions given on the VentureZRider.org site. I would welcome any tip or how to you would like to offer! If you want to come by I always have some cold ones on hand!

[dna9656]

The spring(s) I pulled out of the forks are of the progressive style (I don't know who made them) and they are both the same length---18" the replacement progressive branded and progressive style or type are 20 3/4"long... If they were the same brand and model it seems they shrank a lot! Not hard to figure out why the forks were bottoming out! So with this length difference would I need a spacer with the new springs?

[dna9656]

OK, I got out to the shop today and cleaned up both lower outer tubes, chased the threaded holes with taps, and chased the bolts/screws with a die and wire wheeled the threads. Cleaned the aluminum casting with brake clean and paper towels. Had a stuck copper washer on one side that was fun getting out but I got it!

Now on to the point of confusion. The picture below is what I have on the cylinder ID'ed as "Cylinder Front Fork" Item 12 on the Parts Fitch.

 

Seals and washers on left. This is hanging out the of the tube shown in

the pic o the far left.

Do these 2 bushings at the bottom need to be replaced? I can get the P/N 3JJ-23125-00-00 Metal Slide, I don't know if the WIDE one is the Metal Slide or the NARROW one is but the METAL SLIDE is available. I suspect the one that can slide up and down is the slide! Your input would be appreciated!

I have a video where I ask if these parts need to be replaced. Apparently Photo Bucket no longer supports hosting vids so to not waste the entire evening trying to find a site that hosts vids for free please ask to have me send it to you!

 

 

From the top I have the dust seal (item 8 on the Fitch), (the oil seal clip; item 5, is not in in place), next, the oil seal washer, (item 20 in the Fitch), the oil seal (item 6 on the Fitch), the upper spring (is this washer a wavey washer or a washer that is used with a spring? As you can see I have TWO flat/conventional washers, no wavey washer, nothing like that) washer, the metal slide 1, then (what I call) a bushing; it's hard to see, it's about an inch long and is split and called a seat plate, it looks a lot like a bushing to me.....plates are flat, that's why we eat off of them or use them for clutches.....

The instructions are on www.venturers.org He's working on a XVZ13DS/DSC.

It says this at step 16: You will see the inner fork damper rod (complete cylinder) hanging out

of the bottom of the top tube. If the oil lock piece and three special AHHH DIFFERENT AREA!!!!

washers are still on it, consider yourself good. Otherwise use the magnetic

pickup tool to remove them from the lower tube. Be sure you have all four

pieces. Check the oil lock piece for wear, if its worn, replace it (OEM

price $46 US each). This piece must work or your EAND air suspension won't!!

 

I count TWO washers on mine, where is the THIRD Special washer? I can't find that P/N on any page in the Yamaha Parts Catalog, at Boats.net or Partzilla.com.

Near as I can tell the guy is talking about what must be a discontinued part or one that has changed.

Here's his parts list:

 

• 2 YA26H-23144-00-00 SEAL DUST
  
• 2 YA1NL-23145-00-00 OIL SEAL FORK
  
• 2 YA26H-2319L-00-00 WASHER FORK 1 EACH SIDE
  
• 4 YA26H-2319M-00-00 SPRING WASHER AKA WAVE WASHER****
  
• 2 YA3JJ-23125-00-00 METAL SLIDE FORK BUSHING
  
• 2 YA3JJ-23171-00-00 PISTON, BUSHING
  
• ***This is the one I don't have and no one on the Internet has it. So, has this gone away or is there a new P/N?***
  
• Do I not need this part?
  

Edited July 26, 2018 by dna9656

[skydoc_17]

Hey Doug,

Where to begin! The "Spring Washer" that you are assuming is a wavy washer is in fact a tube with a washer on each end. The "tube" preloads the fork springs, and this is why your current springs are so much shorter than the new Progressive springs. The lower set of bushings are usually good, and don't need to be replaced...usually. ID mic of both the top and bottom bushings will tell the story. The top bushings are the ones that get sloppy. Unfortunately, they are no longer offered from Yamaha for either the MKI or MKII motorcycles. The upper bushings are made from a free machining mild steel called Leadloy. I have had good luck machining them from bushing bronze as well. The bushing bronze makes for a smoother fork action, but doesn't last nearly as long as the mild steel. In your PM, you asked about electroplating the existing worn out bushings, The issue with this would be the upper fork tubes are hard chrome plated. Usually with a bushing/slide mechanism, one surface is hard, (hardly wears at all) and the other surface is sacrificial. (wears the most) With the hard chromed upper fork tubes being hard, and the electroplated inner bushing surfaces being hard as well, you would most likely wear out the upper fork tube in the area where the fork seal rides, causing a leak, and requiring the upper fork tubes to be replaced. That's why the sacrificial surface is usually the cheaper of the two parts. It's just a shame that Yamaha no longer makes these parts for our bikes. To make these bushings, machine a ring OD to the size of the bore in the lower fork tube. (Which requires the measurement of that bore to .0001", to get a "push fit") Then machine the ID of the bushing to the OD of the upper fork tube +.002". (Which would require the measurement of the OD of the upper fork tube as well) Then take a hacksaw and split the ring in two. You also asked about the PVC shim that comes with the Progressive springs. I weigh 185 lbs. and used half of the provided shim in each tube. Other factors are the weight of the fork oil, if you weigh more or less, are riding two up, etc. Like I said earlier, you will be lucky if you get it right the first time. But to answer your question, you will need some shim to preload the springs, or your front end will be too bouncy.

Earl

[dna9656]

Hey Doug,

Where to begin! The "Spring Washer" that you are assuming is a wavy washer is in fact a tube with a washer on each end. The "tube" preloads the fork springs, and this is why your current springs are so much shorter than the new Progressive springs. The lower set of bushings are usually good, and don't need to be replaced...usually. ID mic of both the top and bottom bushings will tell the story. The top bushings are the ones that get sloppy. Unfortunately, they are no longer offered from Yamaha for either the MKI or MKII motorcycles. The upper bushings are made from a free machining mild steel called Leadloy. I have had good luck machining them from bushing bronze as well. The bushing bronze makes for a smoother fork action, but doesn't last nearly as long as the mild steel. In your PM, you asked about electroplating the existing worn out bushings, The issue with this would be the upper fork tubes are hard chrome plated. Usually with a bushing/slide mechanism, one surface is hard, (hardly wears at all) and the other surface is sacrificial. (wears the most) With the hard chromed upper fork tubes being hard, and the electroplated inner bushing surfaces being hard as well, you would most likely wear out the upper fork tube in the area where the fork seal rides, causing a leak, and requiring the upper fork tubes to be replaced. That's why the sacrificial surface is usually the cheaper of the two parts. It's just a shame that Yamaha no longer makes these parts for our bikes. To make these bushings, machine a ring OD to the size of the bore in the lower fork tube. (Which requires the measurement of that bore to .0001", to get a "push fit") Then machine the ID of the bushing to the OD of the upper fork tube +.002". (Which would require the measurement of the OD of the upper fork tube as well) Then take a hacksaw and split the ring in two. You also asked about the PVC shim that comes with the Progressive springs. I weigh 185 lbs. and used half of the provided shim in each tube. Other factors are the weight of the fork oil, if you weigh more or less, are riding two up, etc. Like I said earlier, you will be lucky if you get it right the first time. But to answer your question, you will need some shim to preload the springs, or your front end will be too bouncy.

Earl

 

Well apparently there are no free video hosting sits besides youtube and they said they would get back with me in 3 to 5 days about my pass word.

[dna9656]

Here are some pictures of the lowest bushings. About 1/3 has a brass (sorta) color and the other 2/3s is gray or black (if you chose) in color. the pictures show the different ares. Both sides have the same 1/3 / 2/3 wear.

Now I have plenty of extra forks on the 85 and below parts bike, I also have another 1300 cc bike fork whose condition is unknown but they sure aren't cosmetically as nice as the pair I have on the bike.

 

[Prairiehammer]

The spring(s) I pulled out of the forks are of the progressive style (I don't know who made them) and they are both the same length---18" the replacement progressive branded and progressive style or type are 20 3/4"long... If they were the same brand and model it seems they shrank a lot! Not hard to figure out why the forks were bottoming out! So with this length difference would I need a spacer with the new springs?

 

Doug, the stock Venture springs are somewhat "progressively" wound in appearance. Some folks categorize the stock springs as "dual rate".

The Progressive® Suspension springs for the Venture are longer (thus negating the need for the stock spacer) and heavier gauge wire is used for a higher spring rate.

Pictured is a comparison of stock springs and Progressive® springs as for a MKII Venture. Most have found the preload offered by the use of the stock aluminum plug under the fork tube cap is sufficient (no need to use any of the Progressive® supplied PVC spacer). All of this information is applicable to MKII forks only, the MKI forks have other needs.

 

[dna9656]

Doug, the stock Venture springs are somewhat "progressively" wound in appearance. Some folks categorize the stock springs as "dual rate".

The Progressive® Suspension springs for the Venture are longer (thus negating the need for the stock spacer) and heavier gauge wire is used for a higher spring rate.

Pictured is a comparison of stock springs and Progressive® springs as for a MKII Venture. Most have found the preload offered by the use of the stock aluminum plug under the fork tube cap is sufficient (no need to use any of the Progressive® supplied PVC spacer). All of this information is applicable to MKII forks only, the MKI forks have other needs.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113820

 

So what do you think of the pictures in the above post? Those wider, lower bushings (I have since learned are "PISTONS and can be purchased), I doubt the parts bikes I have would have any in better shape, i do have a 1300 fork of unknown condition. How should I proceed, use these bushings with heavier fork oil? Try to find a (I have a 1200 83.5 fork that was working just fine) better fork? I have R-1 brake master cylinder and calipers....Some one mentioned that you have made bushings in the past....do you still do that? If so we should talk....

Edited July 28, 2018 by dna9656

[Prairiehammer]

Doug, you haven't stated what year/model these forks are from, but since I see the "plate, seat" on the "cylinder" (more commonly called the dampening rod), you must be rebuilding the 1988 forks. The "plate, seat" was used on the 1988-1993 forks. That "plate, seat" is no longer available, so treat it gently. The rubber lip/seal on the "plate, seat" is easily damaged.

 

While we are talking about the "cylinder"/damping rod, I should point out a couple things: Those three washers that are mentioned in an earlier post by you (26H-2319L-00-00 WASHER FORK 1 EACH SIDE, 26H-2319M-00-00 SPRING WASHER AKA WAVE WASHER**** ) are located above the oil lock aka "taper spindle", at the bottom of the cylinder/damping rod. There should be two wave washers (Yamaha calls it "Spring, valve" PN. 26H-2319M-00-00) with a flat washer (PN 26H-2319L-00-00) between them. This stack of washers acts like a valve spring for the oil lock, oil lock acting as a valve for the fork oil. Here are couple pics showing the three washers on the damping rod Please note that second illustration photo shows the oil lock upside down. Your pics of your forks also show the oil lock upside down. The spring, valve/wave washers 26H-2319M-00-00 are still available if you are missing any, but I would look for them still remaining in the lower/outer fork tube. The flat washer, 26H-2319L-00-00, is no longer available.

 

This illustration is of a 1988-1993 fork assembly.

Green items are the three washers (2 wave, 1 flat) that make up the stack acting as a valve spring for the oil lock.

The oil lock is blue.

The "Plate, seat" is red.

The bushings are yellow.

 

Those wider, lower bushings (as you know) are not to be found,

The lower "bushing", part number 3JJ-23171-00-00, (Yamaha calls it a "Piston") is still available from Yamaha and the normal OEM parts outlets, albeit not cheap.

https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/3JJ-23171-00-00

 

The upper "bushing", part number 3JJ-23125-00-00, (Yamaha calls it a "Slide, metal") is also still available from Yamaha, Partzilla, eBay, etc.

https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/3JJ-23125-00-00

 

Some one mentioned that you have made bushings in the past....do you still do that?

 

I've never made bushings. In an earlier post in this thread from Earl, HE mentioned making the bushings. (I don't know why he said the bushings are no longer available.)

Edited July 26, 2018 by Prairiehammer

[dna9656]

To ALL: I'm sorry, I didn't mention the model year of my Bike, It's an '88, XVZ13U.

[dna9656]

Doug, you haven't stated what year/model these forks are from, but since I see the "plate, seat" on the "cylinder" (more commonly called the dampening rod), you must be rebuilding the 1988 forks. The "plate, seat" was used on the 1988-1993 forks. That "plate, seat" is no longer available, so treat it gently. The rubber lip/seal on the "plate, seat" is easily damaged.

 

While we are talking about the "cylinder"/damping rod, I should point out a couple things: Those three washers that are mentioned in an earlier post by you (26H-2319L-00-00 WASHER FORK 1 EACH SIDE, 26H-2319M-00-00 SPRING WASHER AKA WAVE WASHER**** ) are located above the oil lock aka "taper spindle", at the bottom of the cylinder/damping rod. There should be two wave washers (Yamaha calls it "Spring, valve" PN. 26H-2319M-00-00) with a flat washer (PN 26H-2319L-00-00) between them. This stack of washers acts like a valve spring for the oil lock, oil lock acting as a valve for the fork oil. Here are couple pics showing the three washers on the damping rod http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113827http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113828 Please note that second illustration photo shows the oil lock upside down. Your pics of your forks also show the oil lock upside down. The spring, valve/wave washers 26H-2319M-00-00 are still available if you are missing any, but I would look for them still remaining in the lower/outer fork tube. The flat washer, 26H-2319L-00-00, is no longer available.

 

This illustration is of a 1988-1993 fork assembly.

Green items are the three washers (2 wave, 1 flat) that make up the stack acting as a valve spring for the oil lock.

The oil lock is blue.

The "Plate, seat" is red.

The bushings are yellow.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113829

 

 

The lower "bushing", part number 3JJ-23171-00-00, (Yamaha calls it a "Piston") is still available from Yamaha and the normal OEM parts outlets, albeit not cheap.

https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/3JJ-23171-00-00

 

So if that's the BUSHING (piston) what is the Seat, plate?

 

The upper "bushing", part number 3JJ-23125-00-00, (Yamaha calls it a "Slide, metal") is also still available from Yamaha, Partzilla, eBay, etc.

https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/3JJ-23125-00-00

 

 

 

I've never made bushings. In an earlier post in this thread from Earl, HE mentioned making the bushings. (I don't know why he said the bushings are no longer available.)

The seat,plate isn't to be had for love nor money.

I haven't been "IN" the upper tube that the shaft with the oil seal, dust seal and 2 washed pictured. I have only gone as far as the picture shows. The WIDE bushing at the bottom is (I think) the "piston"...I wonder why Yamaha shows the oil lock on (every one I have seen) Upside down? Is this oil lock being upside down why the forks bottomed out?

Edited July 27, 2018 by dna9656

[dna9656]

Doug, you haven't stated what year/model these forks are from, but since I see the "plate, seat" on the "cylinder" (more commonly called the dampening rod), you must be rebuilding the 1988 forks. The "plate, seat" was used on the 1988-1993 forks. That "plate, seat" is no longer available, so treat it gently. The rubber lip/seal on the "plate, seat" is easily damaged.

 

While we are talking about the "cylinder"/damping rod, I should point out a couple things: Those three washers that are mentioned in an earlier post by you (26H-2319L-00-00 WASHER FORK 1 EACH SIDE, 26H-2319M-00-00 SPRING WASHER AKA WAVE WASHER**** ) are located above the oil lock aka "taper spindle", at the bottom of the cylinder/damping rod. There should be two wave washers (Yamaha calls it "Spring, valve" PN. 26H-2319M-00-00) with a flat washer (PN 26H-2319L-00-00) between them. This stack of washers acts like a valve spring for the oil lock, oil lock acting as a valve for the fork oil. Here are couple pics showing the three washers on the damping rod http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113827http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113828 Please note that second illustration photo shows the oil lock upside down. Your pics of your forks also show the oil lock upside down. The spring, valve/wave washers 26H-2319M-00-00 are still available if you are missing any, but I would look for them still remaining in the lower/outer fork tube. The flat washer, 26H-2319L-00-00, is no longer available.

 

This illustration is of a 1988-1993 fork assembly.

Green items are the three washers (2 wave, 1 flat) that make up the stack acting as a valve spring for the oil lock.

The oil lock is blue.

The "Plate, seat" is red. Looks like a top hat....right?

The bushings are yellow.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113829

 

 

The lower "bushing", part number 3JJ-23171-00-00, (Yamaha calls it a "Piston") is still available from Yamaha and the normal OEM parts outlets, albeit not cheap.

https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/3JJ-23171-00-00

 

The upper "bushing", part number 3JJ-23125-00-00, (Yamaha calls it a "Slide, metal") is also still available from Yamaha, Partzilla, eBay, etc.

https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/3JJ-23125-00-00

 

 

 

I've never made bushings. In an earlier post in this thread from Earl, HE mentioned making the bushings. (I don't know why he said the bushings are no longer available.)

 

I'm prolly getting responses between you and Earl confused!!!!

 

Here is what to do next accding to the inst. on the http://www.venturers.org site:

 

You will see the inner fork damper rod (complete cylinder) hanging out

of the bottom of the top tube. If the oil lock piece and three special

see 3 washers are they in the upper tube?

washers are still on it, consider yourself good. Otherwise use the magnetic

pickup tool to remove them from the lower tube. Be sure you have all four

pieces. Check the oil lock piece for wear, if its worn, replace it (OEM

price $46 US each). This piece must work or your EAND air suspension won't!!

 

How does the skinny tube with the "TOP HAT" (Seat, plate) come out of the upper tube?

[Prairiehammer]

With the rod hanging like in the pic I don't

see 3 washers are they in the upper tube?

 

No. As I illustrated, they are supposed to be on the lowest end of the damping rod, but may have fallen off when you separated/removed the lower fork tube from the upper fork tube. The Allen socket cap screw that you removed from the bottom of the lower fork tube, secured the "plate, seat" (top hat piece), the oil lock, and the three washers in place at the end of the damping rod. When you removed the Allen socket head cap screw and slid the lower tube off the upper tube, the aforementioned pieces were now loose and unsecured to the damping rod and may have remained in the lower fork tube. Since the seat plate and oil lock are now on the damping rod in the picture, you must have retrieved them from the lower tube? Or did the oil lock and top hat stay attached to the damping rod? Since you removed the Allen head screw that held all those pieces together, I don't see how the oil lock and top hat could have remained on the damping rod.

 

How does the skinny tube with the "TOP HAT" (Seat, plate) come out of the upper tube?

 

The "skinny tube" is the damping rod (or "cylinder" in Yamaha parlance). The top of the damping rod is fitted with an oil seal. The oil seal creates a friction fit with the interior of the upper tube. Simply pull the damping rod out of the upper tube.

A picture of the "skinny tube"/damping rod/cylinder:

 

Note that there SHOULD be a rebound spring as pictured. It is loose on the damping rod.

[dna9656]

No. As I illustrated, they are supposed to be on the lowest end of the damping rod, (BUT INSIDE THE UPPER TUBE?) but may have fallen off (NOTHING FELL OFF WHEN I REMOVED THE OUTER LOWER) (CAPS TO SEE; NOT TO YELL OR EXCLAIM) when you separated/removed the lower fork tube from the upper fork tube. The Allen socket cap screw that you removed from the bottom of the lower fork tube, secured the "plate, seat" (top hat piece), the oil lock, and the three washers in place at the end of the damping rod. When you removed the Allen socket head cap screw and slid the lower tube off the upper tube, the aforementioned pieces were now loose and unsecured to the damping rod and may have remained in the lower fork tube. Since the seat plate and oil lock are now on the damping rod in the picture, you must have retrieved them from the lower tube? Or did the oil lock and top hat stay attached to the damping rod? Since you removed the Allen head screw that held all those pieces together, I don't see how the oil lock and top hat could have remained on the damping rod.

 

 

 

The "skinny tube" is the damping rod (or "cylinder" in Yamaha parlance). The top of the damping rod is fitted with an oil seal. The oil seal creates a friction fit with the interior of the upper tube. Simply pull the damping rod out of the upper tube.

A picture of the "skinny tube"/damping rod/cylinder:

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113834

Note that there SHOULD be a rebound spring as pictured. It is loose on the damping rod.

 

The only washers I have seen are the ones pictured; besides the little copper washer (seal) used behind the Allen head bolt that holds the lower BOTTOM (outside tube) to the outside UPPER tube. I have not gone beyond the picture(s) I have posted so the dampening rod (the skinny one) has not been removed to see if there are and washed inside the UPPER OUTER TUBE. I have gently pulled on the skinny rod; it sure feels like it has to come out the other end of the upper outer tube that's still clamped in the triple tree.

Edited July 28, 2018 by dna9656

[Prairiehammer]

Just pull the damping rod out of the upper tube. It looks like the damping rod is cocked a bit; wiggle it and pull it out.

 

What is holding the seat plate and oil lock onto the damping rod? Usually those items, along with the two wave washers and the flat washer between the wave washers, just FALL OFF the damping rod.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Prairiehammer

[dna9656]

I just gave 3m pretty good "yanks" on those (they did not come out of the upper....) skinny tubes, I could feel the spring inside working just a little bit but I don't feel confident YANKING any harder, unless further encouraged to do so. I DO think some one that's no M/C mech. (the PO said his mech. wasn't a M/C mech. ... Imagine that!) worked on this bike and reassembled the fork incorrectly.

I ordered the 2 pistons from Partszilla today. They are on eBay cheaper but I had other items to order to so it worked oyt that Partszilla was reasonable.

 

So I noticed that there is a seal (oil) at the bottom of the upper (outer) tube. Does this seal need to come out to get the skinny rod out?

Edited July 28, 2018 by dna9656

[Prairiehammer]

OK, I am not correct in telling you the damping rod will come out the bottom. It will come out the TOP of the inner/upper fork tube. Please excuse me, for I have erred.

 

But after all that, you needn't remove the damping rod to complete the fork rebuild, but it might behoove you to pull (push) it out to examine the oil seal at its top. If that oil seal is bad, then the fork damping will be compromised. Also, you may find the errant wave washers and the flat washer that are supposed to be at the lower end of the damping tube, although I can't imagine anyone was that incompetent.

 

If the oil lock was installed upside down (as in your photos) then damping would be severely compromised.

 

Again, very sorry to mislead you about the direction the damping rod can come out of the upper/inner fork tube. Mea culpa.

[dna9656]

OK, so how does one remove the "piston" from the tube?; pry it enough to fit over the ring below? How does one install the metal slide, metal?

[dna9656]

OK, I am not correct in telling you the damping rod will come out the bottom. It will come out the TOP of the inner/upper fork tube. Please excuse me, for I have erred.

 

OH NO IT WILL NOT! NOT until the "top hat" is removed and it looks like it's welded in place to me. There is no "Obvious" fastening device holding it in place.

But after all that, you needn't remove the damping rod to complete the fork rebuild, but it might behoove you to pull (push) it out to examine the oil seal at its top. If that oil seal is bad, then the fork damping will be compromised. Also, you may find the errant wave washers and the flat washer that are supposed to be at the lower end of the damping tube, although I can't imagine anyone was that incompetent.

 

If the oil lock was installed upside down (as in your photos) then damping would be severely compromised.

 

 

It doesn't look to me like that rod will come out without removing that oils seal at the bottom.

 

Again, very sorry to mislead you about the direction the damping rod can come out of the upper/inner fork tube. Mea culpa.

That's ok, I'm lost too!

Edited July 29, 2018 by dna9656

[dna9656]

Found and ordered 4 Wave or spring washers P/N 26H-2319L-00-00 and 2 of the P/N 26H-2319M-00-00 flat washers. Those washers are just NOT in the assembly.

 

Correction: I reviewed my order and I actually (from 2 different places) ordered 2 of the "L"s and 4 of the "M"s. I put it this way because the P/Ns are the same except for the "L" and "M" letters in the P/Ns.

P/N 26H-2319L-00-00; flat washer, fork, (washers)

P/N 26H-2319M-00-00; Spring valve ("Spring" washers)

Edited July 29, 2018 by dna9656

[Prairiehammer]

Found and ordered 4 Wave or spring washers P/N 26H-2319L-00-00 and 2 of the P/N26H-2319M-00-00 flat washers. Those washers are just NOT in the assembly.

 

26H-2319L-00-00 is the part number for the FLAT washer; 26H-2319M-00-00 is the part number for the WAVE washer! I hope you just mistyped.

 

 

You said that the seat plate would not come off the damping rod. Since the oil lock was installed upside down, I wonder if the three washers have fallen down inside the oil lock where you can't see them. I also wonder, because the oil lock was installed upside down, that the small end of the oil lock has been rammed into the seat plate (top hat), effectively wedging the two together.

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Prairiehammer
Clarification of the drawing

[Patmac6075]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.....that picture is also worth $12 a year!

 

That kind of help is precisely the reason I contribute.

 

My hat goes off to you

[Prairiehammer]

Doug, right here on THIS site is a tutorial for rebuilding the forks with lots of good self explanatory pics:

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?496-Fork-Seal-Replacement