Blind in right eye affecting shooting

[Freebird]

I haven't done a lot of shooting over the past few years. I don't know how often I'll actually concealed carry but finally decided to take the training and get my permit. So I took the classroom part of the course online last week. I will finish up tomorrow with the 2 hours of required range training. I've been practicing here at the house a bit and have discovered that my shooting skills aren't what they once were. I think that a bit part of it is the fact that I went blind in my right (dominant) eye about 6 or 7 years ago.

 

I had hoped to take the class with my Sig 9mm but upon disassembling it on Monday to give it a good cleaning, I discovered that the guide rod is missing so I can't put it back together until I get one. That's another story but my research revealed that they use a two piece guide rod where the actual rod screws into another moon shaped piece and can drop out when they unscrew. I have no idea how long it has been missing. Ordered a new one piece rod but it likely won't be here by tomorrow.

 

So, I've been practicing with the Kimber Ultra Carry II .45. I used to be a decent shot but am having a terrible time now putting the shots in the bullseye. My grouping is pretty tight. The test is only at 21 ft. so that is what I'm practicing. At that short distance, I often put shoot tight enough that there is just one large hole in the target. BUT....that grouping is consistently about 2" - 3" to the left of the bullseye. I know it's not the gun because I was doing the same thing with the Sig and also the Ruger GP100 .357 revolver. It's ME.

 

I, just a few minutes ago, decided to try shooting left handed and I actually did put them in the bullseye. I really don't want to shoot left handed though. I prefer the gun to be on my right side to access with my dominant hand.

 

I'll work through it. Will take some time though.

[Flyinfool]

I have a similar issue. I am right handed and fairly left eye dominant. I also have the same issue with my groups always being to the left and high. I have had professional trainers watch me shoot, including with slow mo video and they could not find anything wrong in what I am doing. All of these pros said that it does not matter if you do a back flip as you squeeze the trigger as long as you do the exact same back flip every time. If you are shooting tight groups that it is not likely an issue with your technique. The simple answer was for those guns that have adjustable sights simply adjust them to be on target. Some of my guns I was able to modify the non adjustable sights to bring them on target. The other I just have to know the gun and where it shoots and mentally compensate. The other advantage of have weird sights is that no one else wants to use my guns cuz they can't hit nuttin.

 

Ya it took me quite a while to learn to subconsciously compensate, especially if I am shooting some one else gun.

 

Go buy more ammo............................

[tufftom4]

My eyesight is going south also I used to be an expert marksmen in the marine corp now I can't even see the target at 500 yards so that is why I put lasers on all my weapons except the shotgun.

[zagger]

Pretty tough. I'm blind in my left eye, but I'm right-handed and shoot with my right hand - so I'm pretty much unaffected.

I have to guess that you are becoming a left-handed shooter.

 

I've got a concealed carry permit (as does my daughter) but living in a very quiet neighborhood, the guns usually stay in my desk drawer. Loaded but not in my pocket. I like the laser pointer options since you can actually see where the gun is pointed even if the lighting or the sights don't allow a clear view.

zag

Edited July 11, 2018 by zagger

[Argo]

Freebird,

 

As I do not have your issue I cannot give first hand knowledge, but I am familiar with individuals that are cross eye dominate.

Most are trap shooters and there are a couple of ways that they deal with that issue.

One is to do as you have tried and that is to shoot left handed.

The other that some have done is that they have a second sight rib mounted to the left of the barrel.

That probably wouldn't be an option in your case with a pistol.

 

My first suggestion would be to look at "red dot" or laser sighting systems.

One that is highly recommended is the the line from Crimson Trace Grip Sights.

These are very compact as the are located entirely in the pistol grip.

There are also others that can be mounted under the barrel, on the frame or trigger guard.

 

Possibly the main reason you are hitting left of your aiming point is that you haven't "adjusted" your shooting stance to compensate.

By that I mean you probably have maintained the same basic stance and body position that you have become accustomed to in the past.

This could mean that you may be holding your head the same and positioning the gun in line with your left eye and the target.

This is all well and good for a sight picture, but muscle memory takes over when the trigger is pulled and the shot breaks.

To compensate shooting right handed, assume your normal stance and body position without trying to get a perfect sight picture.

Rotate your head slightly to the right and tilt to the right to get your left eye in line with the sights and the target, then get a good sight picture and break the shot.

 

Let us know if this helps any.

Other than these suggestions, the only thing I can add is to try different techniques until you find one that works for you.

Then practice, practice, practice until it becomes second nature.

 

Regards,

 

Argo

[BlueSky]

Just adjust the way you align the sights when you shoot and that should take care of it.

[luvmy40]

I'd run that gun from a rest or have someone else who is a reasonably good marksman shoot it before drifting the sights. Odds are, you are pushing the gun with your strong hand on the trigger pull. It's a very common thing with striker fired pistols but I've seen more than a few who have the same issue with single action pistols as well.

 

Check out pistol-training.com and pistol-forum.com for some great drills and a whole bunch of great folks who are every bit as helpful as the family here is.

Edited July 11, 2018 by luvmy40
spelling

[cowpuc]

All the very very best wishes on passing your Concealed Carry test brother!!!!! :thumbsup:Get er done my friend!!!:thumbsup:

 

Many many years ago my Dad was a police officer and somehow he learned about "natural point of aim" (what he always called it) and taught it to me when I was just a kid.. I discovered thru his encouragement that, for home protection, Dads old school philosophy/theory was actually the route that I wanted to follow.. What it comes down to is that instead of becoming dependent on the accuracy of your sites and lining them up with the target,,, you purchase a weapon for home use that "fits" you and comes to a natural point of aim = what ever it is you point at.. As a kid,, he would have me form a pistol with my pointer and thumb and point it at a wall = then look down my finger and sure enough - when I "pointed" at an object on the wall with my pointer finger and looked down my finger like looking down the barrel of a gun, I would 100% of the time be right on target!!

Later,,, having spent many many hours owning and playing with handguns,, while attending one of our AWESOME Michigan gun shows of the era I discovered that the Beretta 92F was the ONLY handgun that, in stock form,, would come to a natural point of aim for me..

Now this is just a matter of my personal opinion Don,, but if I were you I truly think I would grab one of those little "bullet" bore sighters (cheap,, I think you can get a 9mm now for under 5 bucks) in the caliber of handgun you want to conceal carry. Then I would hit the gun shows and gun shops and, after asking permission to drop the laser into the chamber, do so and do a BUNCH of "natural point of aims" until I found that special weapon that came to as close to spot on without having to depend on sites of any sort - especially in close quarters = thought being that you may not want indecision at that time of need,,, Dad's thought was always just to be able to point and shoot,,, sort of quick draw Magraw kind of philosophy when it comes to protecting you and your loved ones life.. That way,, if the bad thing should happen where you really need to use your concealed carry weapon,, even your natural instincts will be working in your favor!!!

Another thing that I am still finding out about something my Dad taught me about shooting is that practice makes perfect.. Not much different than slow riding a full blown touring bike in all her glory I spose. I been shootin my little freebie pellet pistol a LOT here during the day and have noticed a considerable improvement in my "Shoot n Scoot Pistol Golf" scores while out playing with the local lop eared gun totin varmints.. Even tagging numerous 75 yard "drives" on the 5" self healing ground target with my favored .45!!!!!!!!! LOTS OF FUN!!!!! IMHO,, contributable to hours of cheap play with a bb gun,, just like bikin,, skills anyone anywhere can develop - all it takes is LOTS of practice and,, of course,, as mentioned,, LOTS of ammo (by the way - you can still get 22 caliber pellets = 500 of them for under 5 bucks (I just ordered another 500 rounds for my .45 = 120 bucks)!!!

 

I know,, to much opinion,, I'll shut up

Best of luck on your test brother!!!

Puc

[luvmy40]

BTW Don, there's a gun show at the Berea fair grounds this weekend. I'll be set up there.

[Freebird]

I'd run that gun from a rest or have someone else who is a reasonably good marksman shoot it before drifting the sights. Odds are, you are pushing the gun with your strong hand on the trigger pull. It's a very common thing with striker fired pistols but I've seen more than a few who have the same issue with single action pistols as well.

 

Check out pistol-training.com and pistol-forum.com for some great drills and a whole bunch of great folks who are every bit as helpful as the family here is.

 

I would bet that you are correct. Shooting left handed I do fine but that is likely because my right hand is still dominated and as you say, I am probably pushing more with it than I do with my left hand when shooting from that side. I think that I just need more practice. It's been a long time since I've done a lot of shooting.

 

BTW Don, there's a gun show at the Berea fair grounds this weekend. I'll be set up there.

 

Will try to make it. Will look for you if I do.

[Venturous Randy]

A couple years ago I did the permit class and took a 9mm I had never shot before, which was actually the first time I had shot a pistol in probably 30+ years or more. I scored 99 and the one shot I missed slightly was my second shot and I pulled the trigger before I was completely ready. I was concerned about only having vision in my left eye, but since I was shooting two handed, it did not seem to bother me too much.

Loosing the vision in my right eye, which was due to long term diabetes and picking up an 800 motorcycle in the middle of nowhere, was pretty traumatic. It started with a vitreous hemorrhage that led into a detached retina and then more vessel problems. This is one of the reasons that I got off Ventures and got a couple of Miatas.

Randy

Edited July 13, 2018 by Venturous Randy

[Freebird]

Well, my qualification was at 2:00 today. Classroom requirement was already completed and state law requires 2 hours of range training and the proficiency test. I got there around 10 till 2 and the instructor said that we had to be there for two hours to satisfy the state requirement. He told me what was required and it is really pretty easy. At 21 ft., 21 consecutive shots within a 9" group. If one shot is outside the 9", you have to start over.

 

We stapled up a target, I put my first 21 shots well within the 9", I was qualified. Most shots were within about a 3" group but I had a couple that were maybe 4" or so out. That was about 2:10. So we spent the next hour and fifty minutes just target shooting and having a good time. Did a few exercises that I really enjoyed. I took the test with the .45 Kimber Ultra Carry but I also too the Sig 9mm and the Ruger GP100 Match .357. The guide rod didn't get here for the Sig but I had managed to put it back together with the spring and no guide rod. It shot fine. New guide rod should be here Saturday and I'll put it in then because the Sig will likely be my carry gun if and when I actually carry.

 

He had some steel targets out about 75 or so yards. They were probably 18" in diameter. I had no problem ringing them with the .357. Didn't try with the 3" barrel Sig or Kimber. I think I could have done ok with them though.

 

Anyway, it's all done and now I just take the certificate to the Sheriff's office tomorrow and apply for the permit. Not sure but I think it takes two or three weeks before I will get it in the mail.

[Kretz]

Well, my qualification was at 2:00 today. Classroom requirement was already completed and state law requires 2 hours of range training and the proficiency test. I got there around 10 till 2 and the instructor said that we had to be there for two hours to satisfy the state requirement. He told me what was required and it is really pretty easy. At 21 ft., 21 consecutive shots within a 9" group. If one shot is outside the 9", you have to start over.

 

We stapled up a target, I put my first 21 shots well within the 9", I was qualified. Most shots were within about a 3" group but I had a couple that were maybe 4" or so out. That was about 2:10. So we spent the next hour and fifty minutes just target shooting and having a good time. Did a few exercises that I really enjoyed. I took the test with the .45 Kimber Ultra Carry but I also too the Sig 9mm and the Ruger GP100 Match .357. The guide rod didn't get here for the Sig but I had managed to put it back together with the spring and no guide rod. It shot fine. New guide rod should be here Saturday and I'll put it in then because the Sig will likely be my carry gun if and when I actually carry.

 

He had some steel targets out about 75 or so yards. They were probably 18" in diameter. I had no problem ringing them with the .357. Didn't try with the 3" barrel Sig or Kimber. I think I could have done ok with them though.

 

Anyway, it's all done and now I just take the certificate to the Sheriff's office tomorrow and apply for the permit. Not sure but I think it takes two or three weeks before I will get it in the mail.

 

:happy65:Congratulations Don! See, all that worry & it was easy in the end! LOL.

Let's just hope you never have reason to use it!

[Freebird]

Well, that was easy enough. Took my certificate to the Sheriff's office this morning. I had been told that it could take a couple of weeks or longer before your permit actually arrived. They did the background check and made my card while I sat there. Took about 15 minutes total and walked out with it. So, I've good for 5 years now and then it's just a matter of going down and renewing it.

[saddlebum]

Being Canadian and only allowed for the most part to own hunting or sporting rifles, or hand guns for target shooting, which require special permits to transport from one spot to another and not familiar with gun carrying laws such as you have south of the border. I am curious. So now an individual who has a permit to carry is forced into a situation were he was forced to to use it in a lethal manner to protect himself and/or loved ones. Were does he stand in a court of law? Is he charged on the spot? Is it self defense unless proven otherwise? or is it manslaughter until self defense is proven? Not judging just as I admit to having mixed feelings on the subject both for and against, and not because of the firearm itself but rather the complexity and unpredictable nature of human beings in general, but just curious as I stated.

 

PS also not trying to start a debate here, so @Freebird feel free to delete post if it looks like it could.

Edited July 13, 2018 by saddlebum

[Freebird]

It's a fair question and one that every individual here needs to carefully consider before carrying. There should be no gray areas but, as with most things, there always are. It would take an awful lot for me to ever pull a firearm on anybody but if me or my family or for that matter, people in a situation where a crazy shooter is opening up on innocent people, then yes, I would do so. I would do so knowing full well that I will face an investigation and possible legal issues. You have to decide what is important to you. To be honest, I will probably very seldom carry.

 

I would never even consider using it to prevent somebody from stealing my car, motorcycle, etc. I think that anybody who would steal what I have worked hard for is a despicable human being but it would not be worth me possibly taking a life over.

[RandyR]

The laws are not consistent from state to state, and even within the same state from local jurisdiction (city/county) to the next jurisdiction. I say this to let you know that there is no uniform answer which applies accross the USA.

 

But, I'm with Don in his response. I seldom carry, even though I feel competent to do so.

Edited July 13, 2018 by RandyR

[Flyinfool]

As Freebird mentioned it is a difficult moral area for the permit holder to decide for themselves. Legally the CC permit does not change any other laws. Part of the "training class" is to teach you what the laws are. All the permit does is to give you the right to have the firearm on your person and concealed, that is all it does. Every state has different rules regarding the carry of weapons. If you are going to travel with your gun (any gun, not just hand guns) you had better be sure about all of the laws of each state that you will travel thru or could find yourself spending a lot of money on lawyers and still spending some time in lockup.

 

Should you have to use that weapon, the first thing they will look at is can you be legally in possession of that weapon, if not you will go to jail weather it was self defense or not. There a some people in prison for a very long time that claimed it was self defense but the courts called it murder and/or manslaughter. In any event, if you use your weapon on another person you should expect to need an attorney quick, with a good chance it will end up in court. The USA legal system says you are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But that court of law can cost you a LOT of money. It is only the very most cut and dried cases of obvious self defense that never go to court.

 

I only carry in very rare and specific places. I live in WI and the only reason that I got my CC permit was because I hunt and spend a lot of time in the woods of Michigan (and Wisconsin). The woos that I frequent have bears, packs of coyote and packs of wolves. Michigan law says that for me, a non resident, to be in possession of a handgun, I must have a CC issued by my home state. While I also have never need that handgun in the woods, I have been close enough to dangerous animals that I have had it out and in my hand and ready to go. Michigan also has a problem with feral pigs and actually has a law that says if you see a feral pig and are in possession of a firearm, you MUST (or at least try to) shoot the pig. I do like pork. So I will always have a handgun with me while out in the woods during the non hunting seasons.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Flyinfool

[zagger]

Were does he stand in a court of law? Is he charged on the spot? Is it self defense unless proven otherwise? or is it manslaughter until self defense is proven? Not judging just as I admit to having mixed feelings on the subject both for and against, and not because of the firearm itself but rather the complexity and unpredictable nature of human beings in general, but just curious as I stated.

 

I live in Wisconsin and have a CCW permit.

Wisconsin law: "Does having a CCW license give me a greater right to defend myself or others than anyone else? No. A CCW license does not give anyone any new or additional rights to exercise selfdefense or defense of others as provided for by law."

 

A CCW permit just allows a person to legally carry a concealed weapon. Using it brings on pretty much the same legal nightmare that would be faced if you didn't have a permit. But, I guess, if the situation is life or death then the legal mess is the preferred choice.

zag

[cowpuc]

Being Canadian and only allowed for the most part to own hunting or sporting rifles, or hand guns for target shooting, which require special permits to transport from one spot to another and not familiar with gun carrying laws such as you have south of the border. I am curious. So now an individual who has a permit to carry is forced into a situation were he was forced to to use it in a lethal manner to protect himself and/or loved ones. Were does he stand in a court of law? Is he charged on the spot? Is it self defense unless proven otherwise? or is it manslaughter until self defense is proven? Not judging just as I admit to having mixed feelings on the subject both for and against, and not because of the firearm itself but rather the complexity and unpredictable nature of human beings in general, but just curious as I stated.

 

PS also not trying to start a debate here, so Freebird feel free to delete post if it looks like it could.

 

Hey Bum,, IMHO:

 

There are some vast differences between Canada and the USA and a huge difference relevant to answering some of the questions posed in this discussion is that we, the U.S. are a Constitutional Republic and the 2nd Amendment of our beloved Constitution specifically gives the citizens of our country the right to keep and bear arms. It should be noted that this 2nd Amendment right has NOTHING to do with sporting activities such as hunting or target shooting as a prerequisite to keeping and bearing,, that is NOT why our forefathers wrote it (The 2nd) into that document that governs our land. It is my understanding that Canada, as well as the other countries under the govern of the British Commenwealth, have neither of these rights written in such a document - is this correct to your understanding too?

Here in America,, many States still accept the rule of Law spelled out in the 2nd Amendment of the right to Bear and, even "open carry" is actually quite common.. An example,, here in Michigan we tend to follow the U.S. Constitution in that way,, we are an open carry state and I have worked in shops where seeing a shooter on a fellow employees side was a common site . Also, on one of our cross country rides not long ago, Tip and I stopped at Walmart in a Nevada town and were surrounded by folks carrying side arms on their hips right in the store - it was GREAT to see folks taking advantage of their right to keep and bear IMHO. Sadly,, there has been and continues to be a movement by people who do not agree with our Constitutional Republic way of life who are constantly trying to change it to be more like other countries that do not share in the freedoms spelled out in our Constitution. This slippery slope of attempting to change the law of our land does create some real confusion even for "we the people" here in the U.S. so the hint of some confusion on your part, IMHO, is understandable my friend.

I know,, I got long winded again but I KNOW you know me well and, will forgive me of such.. A final note,,, the CC laws across the board here are actually an extension of those rights protected by our 2nd Amendment and that extension simply gives the holder there of the right to hide the weapon under a jacket (conceal) or inside a car (concealed from site) in their pursuit of bearing arms any time they choose to. The CC laws are considered by many to be a positive thing in this way for "we the people" but there is, as always, a concern that the CC procurement methodology could lead to an easy "list" of folks who would be visited should the 2nd Amendment be aborted and our citizens be required to give up their weapons. Sounds crazy but I have actually heard of folks choosing to actively refuse to obtain such licensure just for that fear.... Its a crazy, changing world brother!!!!!!!!

[saddlebum]

Hey Puc I fully understand the part about the the right to bear arms. My curiosity revolves around an individual who has a permit to carry and is forced into a situation were he was forced to to use it in a lethal manner to protect himself and/or loved ones and where he would stand in a court of law? Is he charged on the spot? Is it self defense unless proven otherwise? or is it manslaughter until self defense is proven? This is the part that confuses me.

[Flyinfool]

The short answer is, It is self defense until proven otherwise. In the USA we are supposedly innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

[BlueSky]

In NC, there is a "stand your ground" law that doesn't require you to retreat from a confrontation. It also allows you to show your weapon to defuse a situation, something I would never do because if the other person has a weapon they might kill you and call it self defense. We also have a "castle" law. If an uninvited person is found to be in your home, you have the legal right to kill them. Before that law, they had to be a threat before shooting them. The key words are "in your home". You can't shoot them in the yard unless they are attacking. Carrying a gun is a responsibility that can get you jailed. But, like the saying goes, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by pallbearers.

[Freebird]

Ohio is also an "open carry" state. You rarely see people around here doing that though. It is something that I don't care to do for several reasons. I agree with Cowpuc that many don't get the CCW permit for the reason that should the 2nd amendment ever be abolished, the government has a starting list of people to visit. I have been shooting since I was probably 10 years old. It was very common in Texas. I would go visit either of my grandfathers and they would hand me a .22 rifle or a shotgun along with a box of ammo and say "go practice". Those were fun times.

 

I have been a lifetime NRA member for over 30 years. I have thought about the CCW permit for a long time but had never gotten one due primarily to the reasons stated above. I actually brought this up with my instructor and his response was that he had very few firearms that he had bought new. Most were bought used for the very reason that they are not registered to him and if that day were to ever come, nobody would know that he has them. I can tell you that most firearm owners in the USA have at least one or more that are not registered to them. That is not illegal in most states.

 

Though there are many here who would like to see the 2nd amendment abolished, it is not likely to happen anytime soon. It is a big deal to change our constitution and those who would like to abolish the amendment are a long way from ever getting the necessary majority of elected officials or, alternatively, the number of states required to repeal it.

 

If that ever were to happen, it would be generations before they would ever find and confiscate the millions of unregistered firearms in the hands of the people who would absolutely never give them up voluntarily.

[RDawson]

Hey Puc I fully understand the part about the the right to bear arms. My curiosity revolves around an individual who has a permit to carry and is forced into a situation were he was forced to to use it in a lethal manner to protect himself and/or loved ones and where he would stand in a court of law? Is he charged on the spot? Is it self defense unless proven otherwise? or is it manslaughter until self defense is proven? This is the part that confuses me.

 

A lot of good answers here. I wish there was one flat answer but it's going to boil down to the opinion of the officers investigating the call. Like many said there may be legal costs and headaches if you are forced to shoot, but that beats the alternative. While I have the CCW I rarely carry as I live in an area that I just don't feel the need. I think the fact that most houses here have guns makes people think twice about doing something stupid. I do know of a few cases where shooters were not charged with anything because it was pretty clear they shot in self defense. I have many people in my family from law enforcement and I work around many more regularly, most all officers I know fully support CCW because they realize better than most how slow a response time can sometimes be if they're tied up on another call. That's even assuming you have time to call them. A lot of times we only have two deputies patrolling our whole county at a time, they may 20 minutes away from a call or more. To me everyone needs to be equipped to safeguard their family and let the police do their job when they arrive. I am very thankful that I don't feel that I need to worry about it much here but fully realize many live in areas that needing a weapon is a reality every day.