Testing the Dunlop Elite 4 and Lucas Red N Tacky grease on the Venture drive pins!

[cowpuc]

I am getting ready for the open road and got talked into trying the new Dunlop Elite 4 to see if we could make it full course with out having to swap out tires 2 or 3 times. It all sounded like a plan until, among other things, I remembered how every time I swapped out a rear tire the drive pins and gear set in Tweeks rear end were well ready for greasing = all of a sudden it dawned on me that I may be setting myself up for a crisis if Dunlops claim of 6 journeys back and forth from coast to coast were valid!! I know all about the Moly thread, have tried many many different forms of grease (had a friend who worked in oil/lube distribution - gots LOTS of that stuff in a wide variety given to me to try thru the years) but nothing seemed to worked. This series of video focuses on another theory I have about what causes the grease to run off the gears and pins.. I have a hunch that it has more to do with heat than what I had suspected so I dug around and found some Lucas grease that is solid all the way to +500 degrees so that is what I set my sights on and am employing in the testing.

I was also surprised to see that @Geobob had brought up the dry pin thread this evening.. I am posting these video's out of sync so he can see what the drive pin thing is all about and also see the type of grease I am trying this time around.. I hope this helps somehow Geo!!!! Here ya go!!

 

 

[Condor]

This report will be interesting Puc. I don't chew up the miles like you do, but a few folks do. My E3's on the 99rsv have about 5,000 on them and they still look great, so I'll probably never wear them out.

 

Now.... If you go to Leatherby's and don't call me I'm gonna be ticked.... :-)

 

http://www.cast-aways.com/CONDORPICS/Sam-Side.jpg

[Du-Rron]

I know all about the Moly thread...

 

Keep in mind that if you use moly grease... that contains a lot of moly... like Honda Moly... that the moly will continue to lubricate once the oil carrier in the moly grease has evaporated/washed/flung off. You got waaayyyyy more time in the saddle than I do so I am assuming you may have forgotten more about this moly grease thing than I ever knew.

 

 

I didn't look real hard but I swear your diff gear is wore clean out (shown @ 0:26 ). Pointy teeth instead of square teeth.

[SpencerPJ]

I've been using that Lucas Grease on my Yukon for many years. I do like it, but must say, I keep it OUT of my grease gun, warm garage, and it gets runny / drippy. I have to keep it in a baggie. I like Lucas products so please keep us updated with your findings.

[Marcarl]

My question would be: how are you going to know if this stuff works or not?

I used Lucas X-Tra heavy duty wheel bearing grease and found it to work famously. I had thought that when I took a look at tire change time that I would see some gobs of grease stuck to the splines, but no, no gobs, but the splines were still 'wet' with lubricant. I was a little disappointed until I realized that it doesn't take gobs and gobs to keep things lubricated, all we need is a layer, however thin that might be, and that I had, as opposed to previous times when things went dry and got rusty and worn out.

[cowpuc]

Keep in mind that if you use moly grease... that contains a lot of moly... like Honda Moly... that the moly will continue to lubricate once the oil carrier in the moly grease has evaporated/washed/flung off. You got waaayyyyy more time in the saddle than I do so I am assuming you may have forgotten more about this moly grease thing than I ever knew.

 

 

I didn't look real hard but I swear your diff gear is wore clean out (shown @ 0:26 ). Pointy teeth instead of square teeth.

 

Just like me,,, that's just a filament of your illumination Duey .. I do have a fair amount of wear on the gear set = 20 thousandths of lash between the gears but far from pointed.. THANK YOU for pointing out the need to keep an eye on that wear though!!

 

I've been using that Lucas Grease on my Yukon for many years. I do like it, but must say, I keep it OUT of my grease gun, warm garage, and it gets runny / drippy. I have to keep it in a baggie. I like Lucas products so please keep us updated with your findings.

 

WOWZY,, now your scaring me Spence.. The reason I went with the high temp stuff was it is suppose to stay "grease" and not go fluid until 540 degrees farenheight.. My theory is that the reason the pins go dry and the grease from both them and the carrier gears is because it gets hot, turns fluid and then runs down the wall of the pig (as pointed out in the video). I know a lot has been mentioned thru the years of the grease being "tossed" and I always bought that theory BUT have always wondered how the pins were able to throw the grease when they are captured in their guides - never made sense to my pea brain. That is why I searched for (and found this Lucas stuff) a good high temp grease...

You know what I am gonna do,,, I am gonna take some of this Lucas and put it in a cap, let it lay in the sunshine outside and see if it turns runny.. If it does I will be making a call to Lucas cause what you are saying is typical to my experience with "normal" greases I have had in my garage too but, IMHO, this high temp stuff should NEVER do that!!

 

My question would be: how are you going to know if this stuff works or not?

I used Lucas X-Tra heavy duty wheel bearing grease and found it to work famously. I had thought that when I took a look at tire change time that I would see some gobs of grease stuck to the splines, but no, no gobs, but the splines were still 'wet' with lubricant. I was a little disappointed until I realized that it doesn't take gobs and gobs to keep things lubricated, all we need is a layer, however thin that might be, and that I had, as opposed to previous times when things went dry and got rusty and worn out.

 

One of the great things about these MK1 1st Gens is its only about a 20 minute job to pull the rear wheel to check things... I was planning to pull the wheel at 6k mile intervals just to take a peek Carl.. One of the little things I learned in life is to be careful about how much to trust claims written about any products... That is why I referred to this thread in its title as a "test" = a science experiment that I plan on keeping a very close eye on

 

 

[SpencerPJ]

 

WOWZY,, now your scaring me Spence.. The reason I went with the high temp stuff was it is suppose to stay "grease" and not go fluid until 540 degrees farenheight.. My theory is that the reason the pins go dry and the grease from both them and the carrier gears is because it gets hot, turns fluid and then runs down the wall of the pig (as pointed out in the video). I know a lot has been mentioned thru the years of the grease being "tossed" and I always bought that theory BUT have always wondered how the pins were able to throw the grease when they are captured in their guides - never made sense to my pea brain. That is why I searched for (and found this Lucas stuff) a good high temp grease...

You know what I am gonna do,,, I am gonna take some of this Lucas and put it in a cap, let it lay in the sunshine outside and see if it turns runny.. If it does I will be making a call to Lucas cause what you are saying is typical to my experience with "normal" greases I have had in my garage too but, IMHO, this high temp stuff should NEVER do that!!

 

Here is what my tube does. I opened this about 3 weeks ago, greased my Yukon, then I always store it in a cabinet in a baggie because it would drip out of my gun. Been in the 90s in my garage several times, never over 100 (attached). After maybe 6 months, I will have maybe 1 oz liquid in bottom of baggie.

 

I have never had any drippy coming from any of my grease boots on the Yukon, and because it is generally well liked, I continue to use it with no problems.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by SpencerPJ

[leroy]

Puc,

 

Very interesting experiment. I can't wait to hear of your results.

 

I am curious, what tire have you been running to get only 5,000 miles out of? Do you pull a trailer?

 

Most of my riding is heavily loaded high speed highway Texas heat no trailer. The worst tire mileage I have had on either my heavily loaded VTX or loaded up RSV is 6000 on the OEM RSV Bridgestone tire. The VTX was 8,000 on OEM Dunlop 404.

 

My RSV is a 2012 model bought new in 2015 so it was an old tire to start with. When I replaced it, it still had life in it but I was in Lincoln, Nebraska in the summer and knew it would not last back to Dallas. One blow out in my lifetime is enough.

 

Keep us posted.

[Sylvester]

I use red tacky hi temp grease around my farm and it is a quality lubricant. I don't use Lucas but most all lubricant companys produce it. In heavy earth moving equipment it is superior. That being said, this spring I put new tires on my 2nd gen and found I misplaced my Honda moly or used it up. I resorted to a quick fix and put the red sticky stuff in place of moly. Puc will know long before I will how it has performed, but I have confidence in it.

 

[videoarizona]

Puc,

 

Very interesting experiment. I can't wait to hear of your results.

 

I am curious, what tire have you been running to get only 5,000 miles out of? Do you pull a trailer?

 

Most of my riding is heavily loaded high speed highway Texas heat no trailer. The worst tire mileage I have had on either my heavily loaded VTX or loaded up RSV is 6000 on the OEM RSV Bridgestone tire. The VTX was 8,000 on OEM Dunlop 404.

 

My RSV is a 2012 model bought new in 2015 so it was an old tire to start with. When I replaced it, it still had life in it but I was in Lincoln, Nebraska in the summer and knew it would not last back to Dallas. One blow out in my lifetime is enough.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Puc and I have been running Shinko 230's on our 1st gens. Great tire but won't last long at 80 plus mph across the 100 plus degree temp roads fully loaded. The heat gets all tires. I have about 5K on mine, but most of my trips to Phoenix and back to Tucson are not heavily loaded and I stick around 75mph. I also don't ride much in the heat anymore...old bod can't handle it like it used to! My rear still looks about 1/2 gone. Figure I might get another 4K out of it. Front looks new. @cowpuc will chime in and tell you his riding style and wear on various tires over the years.

[leroy]

Puc and I have been running Shinko 230's on our 1st gens. Great tire but won't last long at 80 plus mph across the 100 plus degree temp roads fully loaded. The heat gets all tires. I have about 5K on mine, but most of my trips to Phoenix and back to Tucson are not heavily loaded and I stick around 75mph. I also don't ride much in the heat anymore...old bod can't handle it like it used to! My rear still looks about 1/2 gone. Figure I might get another 4K out of it. Front looks new. @cowpuc will chime in and tell you his riding style and wear on various tires over the years.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I have a lot of experience on tires for my VTX, 134,000 miles, but still learning on the RSV, 27,000 miles.

 

Presently I have Elite 3 on front and a almost new Commander II on rear. The rear Elite 3 that I replaced in November had 14,000 on it. I had great luck with the Commander II on the VTX. This is my first experience with Elite 3. I have about 19K on the front Elite 3 with 3/32nds left but replacing Tuesday to get trip ready.

 

I carry 40 psi in front and rear.

 

I have heard several guys like the Avons. I have never tried them.

[videoarizona]

On my 2nd Gen, I was running Shinko 777HD's front and rear. 38 front 42 rear. Loved that tire. Had around 3K miles on it when I got a nail in East CHicago on my road trip. Sad to see it gone....because I think the mileage would have been there. It looked brand new and I was carrying quite the load for the last 2K miles.

Have a Shinko 230 on the rear of the RSV now...I'll leave it on till it's gone. Really like the "feel" of the Shinkos. Very comfortable ride...At least for me...

[cowpuc]

Puc,

 

Very interesting experiment. I can't wait to hear of your results.

 

I am curious, what tire have you been running to get only 5,000 miles out of? Do you pull a trailer?

 

Most of my riding is heavily loaded high speed highway Texas heat no trailer. The worst tire mileage I have had on either my heavily loaded VTX or loaded up RSV is 6000 on the OEM RSV Bridgestone tire. The VTX was 8,000 on OEM Dunlop 404.

 

My RSV is a 2012 model bought new in 2015 so it was an old tire to start with. When I replaced it, it still had life in it but I was in Lincoln, Nebraska in the summer and knew it would not last back to Dallas. One blow out in my lifetime is enough.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Puc and I have been running Shinko 230's on our 1st gens. Great tire but won't last long at 80 plus mph across the 100 plus degree temp roads fully loaded. The heat gets all tires. I have about 5K on mine, but most of my trips to Phoenix and back to Tucson are not heavily loaded and I stick around 75mph. I also don't ride much in the heat anymore...old bod can't handle it like it used to! My rear still looks about 1/2 gone. Figure I might get another 4K out of it. Front looks new. cowpuc will chime in and tell you his riding style and wear on various tires over the years.

videoarizona is 100% correct leroy , under his mentoring - I have been running the Shinko Tourmasters successfully now on numerous incursions behind enemy lines and they have, knock on the top of my wooden noggin, brought me home safely each time.. EXCELLENT low cost tire with a real good feel to them in everything from high speed pursuits thru the canyons to slow speed twisties covered with tar snakes.. The rear I just took off from Tweeksis to mount up this new Dunny on it had just under 6k hard miles on it.. Nothing in the high temps of where this Dunlop is headed and where most of my other tire experiences have been.. As mentioned by Vaz, I too have found the intense heat of the western deserts I LOVE to ride to wreak havoc on tires (and other things,, its a strange place where a gallon jug of water can be more precious then the same amount of weight in gold = really,,, thats true). Had the Shink I just pulled seen the desert it would have been fortunate to have made 5k with my ride style.

I tend to full pack, tent and all that, ride 2 up, NEVER pull a trailer (cause I do a fair amount of off road site seeing) and am governed by the Guvna herself (Tippy) at 100 mph when she is on the back so that is pretty much where we hang out once the cities disappear and the horizon's reveal the vast openess of the far west that we love.. I also wickin it up in the twisties and have a natural bad habit to always wick it up when coming out of corners. I also run heavy in traffic and, generally speaking, insist on taking control of my destiny in traffic by insisting that I am always going a little faster than those around me = may sound nuts but I have found a sense of safety when I am watching the cars disappear in my mirrors. When I am around semi's I dont play games with em, if I am in a bottleneck where the cagers are piling up and there is Semi involved I back off and wait for an opening and as soon as it appears its what I call "bye bye time" (Tip has heard me utter those words dozens of times). When bye bye time happens, the Guvna takes charge in speed control and, at times, that lasts until we find our lonely little pocket of freedom spaced carefully between the bottlenecks behind and in front of us... Yes,, I am hard on tires. I DO NOT do the burn out thing though like is so popular these days - I respect my tires more than that. My tire wear is 100 percent earned the hard way.

Tires that come to mind that I have ran and associated mileage of them (all cross country comparisons with comparable desert heat time) - packed heavy, riding 2 up and hitting speeds in the triple digits at times, all hand mounted and balanced by yours truly, all worn to bald with an even wear - expect for the Metzlers,, they delaminated at last 20% of tire!!:

Dunny Elite 2's (probably one of my favs) = 6500 miles, great all around tire!! Noisy when half worn and gets even louder if hitting the twisties - so much so that you can actually feel the outer sharp edges of the tread vibrating the bars in the tight stuff like the dragon = strange..

Mich Commander 2 = good desert tire, terrible on twisties and in rain or on cold pavement, good high mileage @8000 miles BUT to expensive up front when compared to Shinkos. Also cost me a ton of cash and inconvience because it didnt quite make it back from the coast on a 1 1/2 month outing (normally would have swapped tires at my daughters in Sacramento but this tire was looking like it would make the full trip - it didnt so then I was stuck going to a steale,, I mean dealership). That tire was 230 bucks and I have been buying current, up to date Shinko Tour Masters for $65 shipped and they will do 4500, maybe 5k in the desert - see my point?

Full Bore = AMAZING cheap tire that was all I could find in the bargin barrel one year out on the West Coast!! Tire did SUPERB for what it was, handled the heat excellent, got 4500 miles out of it and, get this,, it was like 53 bucks shipped to my daughters!!!! I absolutely would not hesitate for a second to run Full Bores full time!!

Dunny 404 = RIP OFF!! Just over 3k miles!! I call them the "tire that will disappear"!!!! Story,,,,, headed for the coast,, got dinking around ghost townin in Utah (flaw in my charactor) and Tip and I discovered the 404 I had mounted new just before we left was almost bald when we pulled into Moab. We found 1,, thats right,,, ONE tire that matched the size/weight reguirements for Tweeks in all of Moab and,, guess what it was? Yep,, another 404 AND the guy wanted 235 bucks for it!! I looked at him and told him I couldnt do that,, I couldnt pay 230 bucks for the same tire that I had just paid 85 dollars for 2 weeks earlier and then found out it was junk.. I asked where the nearest Yamaha shop was and he said "FairField" (or something like that).. We plotted a course thru the mountains to FairField, tented a couple nights wayyyy up in those gorgeous mountains (talk about COLD) at a couple back packing or skier trail heads, when we finally found out way out our kids in California had called the cops to go look for us before we finally landed in FairField with THE CORDS SHOWING!!!!

Metzler = it was heading toward being my highest mileage tire EVER when,, at 7500 miles on the tire on the way back to Sacramento from a place called "The Dalles" where we had attended a VR Rally called "Venture West" and had also drifted up to Mount St. Helens with another member here ( CMCOFFEY - you still around Coff? Aint heard from ya for a spell = hope all is ok?) on that Metz. Coff watched me check that tire for pressure and condition (think I checked Exodus's - Coff's bike - too) before we left The Dalles in Oregon.. Time we got back to Sac the tire was IN PIECES (I have pics of it somewhere). It literally came unglued = DEADLY!! Funny thing was,,, I was actually warned about Metzler tires by a very good friend of mine and fellow member here about this earlier in the trip... You may know him = Squidly? Apparently he and his precious wife Lonna had also had a similar encounter with Metzler only theirs blew (if I recall correctly) from delamination and almost ended in trajity.. Swore off Metz's after all that.

Avon - good tire,, 7k miles, had a strange random tread pattern that I didnt care for in twisties and also in sound.. At half wear on the tread I could feel the variations in the tread as a buzz in my bars..

Kenda - 4500 mile tire, could never get em to stay balanced - especially at speeds over 90. Good deal if you dont over ride the tire. Noisy when half gone. Actually seemed like a really good rain tire (we got hit hard out east one time running Kenda's). Good tire for tire beads IMHO as long as you stay under 80.

Shinko 230 Tour Masters (THANKS videoarizona !!) - Awesome tire!! Cheap,, decent mileage, CHEAP ,, will run from Mid West to West Coast absolutely no problem and can plan ahead and have the swap on sitting at the kids waiting for me.. This is an honest 4500 mile low, 5k high tire when heading that way for us!! It handles the heat REAL WELL, handles the rain REAL WELL, handles the twisties with total dignity and has definitely landed on my list of all time favorites - by the way,, did I say they are cheap?? I havent looked recently but I betcha I can buy one right now for under 80 bucks shipped and have it here in 2 days OR LESS!! Took me almost 3 weeks to FINALLY get a good E-4:doh: to start this crazy testing journey I am on!! Something else that I noticed just recently when mounting this new E-4 (and this is actually in one of my video's in this video series) is WOWZY is it hard to spoon on!!! With the Shinko's,,, lay em in the sun for and hour and I literally can almost pop the starting bead onto the rim without laying a spoon on it!! This E-4 took me over 2,, thats right,, TWO hours to spoon on!! IMHO,, this E-4 is designed to require a Dealership (or someone with a tire machine) to install it.. To many (almost everyone I am sure cause I know,, I am strange) varmints this is normal cause I know they carry tow cards in their pockets but to the few side of the road tire swappers there are left out there CTFW,, I can tell ya,,, IMHO - this is E-4 is NOT the answer.. Seriously,,, Give me a Shink, a set of spoons and this nifty little Bead Buster that VanRiver sent my way (THANK AGAIN RIV!!) and in under an hour I will be back to CTFW - start to finish!!

Dunny E-4,,,,, no clue,,,, still in testing but,, it does have a strike against it already in its difficulty to swap out by hand.. I do have that Dunlop (and others) are shootin straight on their claim to 6x back and forth across the country on it or,, lets just say +20k of riding that includes a fair amount of hot tarmac time fully loaded, 2 up at speeds controlled by the Guvna.. What da heck what day hey,, I would actually be impressed if it just makes one good complete full circle of a summer tour for us!!!! We shall see!!

Edited July 7, 2018 by cowpuc

[Du-Rron]

PUC... I have flat out asked this before but never got an answer.

 

 

Have you tried the Shinko 777 HD Series Tires? They are more heavy duty then the 230 series.

[cowpuc]

PUC... I have flat out asked this before but never got an answer.

 

 

Have you tried the Shinko 777 HD Series Tires? They are more heavy duty then the 230 series.

 

Duey,, my bad,, I even think I remember reading you asking about that - I truly apologize for over lookingy this!! I have never tried the 777. I think I do remember looking them up once to price check them compared to the 230 and noticed that the heavy dutiness was more in weight capacity or something... Nothing leading me to see that they were a super high mileage tire like this

E-4 is suppose to be.. That said, they were more pricey than the 230's if I recall and the uptake on the price just didnt balance with the fact that I still would have to swap tires out on the west coast (the only advantage possible at this point with going to a more expensive tire would be if the more expensive tire can make the full circle out and back - the Commander 2's taught me how close but not quite completing the trip REALLY creates an issue because all of a sudden I am dependent on road side Dealerships and everyone knows how that story ends )..

Have you tried the 777's in high temps such as seen in Needles California, Death Valley, Area 51 riding loaded and two up? If so I would LOVE to hear your take on them and would be more than willing to give em a shot if you think +20k in such conditions is a possibility brother!!!!!!!

 

Another tire that I missed in my assessment (forgive me you bunch of lop eared varmints,, my pea brain aint quite a quick as it used to be ) was the Conti Tour!! They proved worthy with a 7k wear on the rear and almost 15k on the front!!! I actually ended up having to swap out the front due to cupping instead of actual wear out too!! The problem I had with the Continenal Tour on the front, I think, stemmed from it being a high PSI tire to get is load rating up.. As I recall, 50 pounds of air to create top performance.. Besides the cupping that I think the high psi had something to do with, the tire also rode funny = it had a hard feel to it of course.. I never really cared for the cornering aspect of the Continentals,, IMHO, the much cheaper Shinko's reign supreme in handling and are a LOT cheaper and,, as with all of them,, the Continentals could never go full circle (rear tire) and still required a swap out...

Again,, Sorry @Du-Ron for over looking your pertinent question my friend!!

Your ol forgetful buddy = Puc:thumbsup:

[Du-Rron]

Duey,,

 

I moved all this stuff over here.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?137287-Shinko-777-Stuff

 

since we kinda started a new subject.

[frankd]

Cowpuc,

 

I've looked but can't find your test report for the Elite 4's. How'd it do?