Second gear?

[snyper316]

I know my 83 may end up with issue but, I noticed last night when I replaced the clutch seal that my gear box has 4 bolts and all 4 had punch marks on the bolts. So here is my question why would they be like that as its not to help hold the bolts in place as it is on the heads. So could this possibly mean my washer has been repaired? @cowpuc could you check tweaks gear box and see if there is pinch marks on her bolts? There behind the cover? Someone told me once this us how you could tell. Want to see for sure it would be nice to know. One other thing it seems like the hotter temps when I stop at a light for a few that sometimes the bike idles funny and sluggish sort of. But while cruising down the road she does just fine.

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

[cowpuc]

I know my 83 may end up with issue but, I noticed last night when I replaced the clutch seal that my gear box has 4 bolts and all 4 had punch marks on the bolts. So here is my question why would they be like that as its not to help hold the bolts in place as it is on the heads. So could this possibly mean my washer has been repaired? cowpuc could you check tweaks gear box and see if there is pinch marks on her bolts? There behind the cover? Someone told me once this us how you could tell. Want to see for sure it would be nice to know. One other thing it seems like the hotter temps when I stop at a light for a few that sometimes the bike idles funny and sluggish sort of. But while cruising down the road she does just fine.

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

 

Be glad to Snype,, which 4 bolts are you talking about brother?? I know for fact that Tweeksis's tranny had its 2nd gear failure proned shim fixed in "back yard mechanic" fashion by "Dennis" (the previous owner to Carbon One who I got her from) because he kept VERY good maintenance/repair notes on her and I have those notes.. It was NOT a dealership repair so I highly doubt what I find is going to make a difference in what your trying to find out here cause back yard fixin usually dont follow Dealership protocol.. Therefore,, and because I am farrrrrr from any form of a "guru" with these bikes,, it may not be a bad idea to summon's up the 1st Gen guru's like @bongobobny or @Prairiehammer and run this by those guys.. Perhaps even @Marcarl would know this one..

I will still be happy to help if I can though and take a peek but I really need a pic or more info cause, for the life of me,, I cant picture the 4 bolts your speaking of...

I am a bone head Snype = Help me help you brother!!

Puc

[cowpuc]

Oh yea,, concerning the idling funny when Tinker is warm... When this happens do you notice anything strange happening with your Volt meter? Only reason I ask is that, IMHO, even though the Regulator has heat sinks - it still gets very hot and this can cause some strange low voltage situations and low voltage can cause low rpm blubbering and other things... Watch the meter next time it happens and see if you see something happening there Snype..

[Prairiehammer]

I know my 83 may end up with issue but, I noticed last night when I replaced the clutch seal that my gear box has 4 bolts and all 4 had punch marks on the bolts. So here is my question why would they be like that as its not to help hold the bolts in place as it is on the heads. So could this possibly mean my washer has been repaired?

 

I am not sure what four bolts you are talking about, but I suspect you are talking about the four flat head screws with the Torx socket head under the middle gear cover that retain the middle gear retainer plate?

 

If those bolts/screws are what you are wondering about, the "punch" marks on them are in fact staking the bolt/screw heads. The punch marks are made at the factory and do not indicate a repaired thrust washer. There was no dealer applied mark to indicate a repaired second gear. Replacing a worn thrust washer was not a warranty item. Furthermore, a repaired second gear procedure includes replacing the thrust washer and new spec second gear/dog.

 

The "punch mark" that is so often talked about was to indicate that the stator cooling kit had been retrofitted. The single punch mark in that case was supposed to be applied by the dealer onto a smooth blank boss on the crankcase near the middle gear cover.

 

M84-025 Stator Cooling Kit Installation.pdf

[snyper316]

I am not sure what four bolts you are talking about, but I suspect you are talking about the four flat head screws with the Torx socket head under the middle gear cover that retain the middle gear retainer plate?

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113477http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113478

 

If those bolts/screws are what you are wondering about, the "punch" marks on them are in fact staking the bolt/screw heads. The punch marks are made at the factory and do not indicate a repaired thrust washer. There was no dealer applied mark to indicate a repaired second gear. Replacing a worn thrust washer was not a warranty item. Furthermore, a repaired second gear procedure includes replacing the thrust washer and new spec second gear/dog.

 

The "punch mark" that is so often talked about was to indicate that the stator cooling kit had been retrofitted. The single punch mark in that case was supposed to be applied by the dealer onto a smooth blank boss on the crankcase near the middle gear cover.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113479http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113480

 

 

:bang head: well it would be nice to know if it has been, instead of one day not having it.

[snyper316]

Ok I know this question has been answered now, with pictures, @Prairiehammer did you go tear a bike apart to post them photos. Also looks like you gots a good oil leak there Prairie..

 

[snyper316]

Oh yea,, concerning the idling funny when Tinker is warm... When this happens do you notice anything strange happening with your Volt meter? Only reason I ask is that, IMHO, even though the Regulator has heat sinks - it still gets very hot and this can cause some strange low voltage situations and low voltage can cause low rpm blubbering and other things... Watch the meter next time it happens and see if you see something happening there Snype..

Okay cowpuc to answer your question it may drop down some I'm not really for certain on that, but I will keep an eye on . What would that mean, does it mean I'll have to replace my regulator?

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

Edited July 5, 2018 by snyper316
Who is Cal Park?

[Prairiehammer]

Prairiehammer did you go tear a bike apart to post them photos.

 

YEP. Just for you.

And it is only 100° here, 121° in the shop.

No sacrifice too large for a fellow VentureRider.

[Marcarl]

On the second gear issue if you look at the picture, the second one is probably the best, you'll see a large nut with the 4 bolts around the outside that you said had punch marks. In the middle of the nut there is a shaft with a shaft inside of it, well at least that what it looks like. On the center shaft then you'll be able to locate 2 half moon washers that are sitting in a groove on the shaft. Yep! those are the culprits. The half moons are there to hold a spring onto the shaft and that spring is not a wuss. So the whole kit and kabudal has to come apart to get at those 2 half moon washers,,, but in your case all is not necessarily lost. Look closely at the one you have on your bike and see if the half moons have been worn by the shaft, if yes, then you will have some work to remedy that issue, if there is no wear, then I would suggest that they have already been renewed. The original washers were made from too soft metal and so wore down, which allowed the shaft to slightly move inwards, which allowed the second gear dogs to slide out of position. The replacement washers are of harder steel and so can stand up to the job at hand.

[Flyinfool]

Also, if yours is going to go out it is not something that happens suddenly. It will start by occasionally popping out of 2nd gear under very hard acceleration, as the washer continues to wear over time it will take less and less hard of acceleration to pop it out. This happens very gradually over a lot of time. So it is not like you are riding along and 2nd goes away suddenly.

And even when it does go out, @cowpuc has put on around a million miles with no 2nd gear.

[snyper316]

YEP. Just for you.

And it is only 100° here, 121° in the shop.

No sacrifice too large for a fellow VentureRider.

It was about the same here.

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

[cowpuc]

Okay Cal Park to answer your question it may drop down some I'm not really for certain on that, but I will keep an eye on . What would that mean, does it mean I'll have to replace my regulator?

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

 

Could be,, could also be as insignificant as grub needing to be cleaned out of the regulator terminal or the stator terminal or even a dirty battery connection...

 

Also, if yours is going to go out it is not something that happens suddenly. It will start by occasionally popping out of 2nd gear under very hard acceleration, as the washer continues to wear over time it will take less and less hard of acceleration to pop it out. This happens very gradually over a lot of time. So it is not like you are riding along and 2nd goes away suddenly.

And even when it does go out, cowpuc has put on around a million miles with no 2nd gear.

 

!! By the way Fool,,, did I tell you about my newest book to hit the book stands this Fall?? It's titled - "Short Shifting - A Guide To Motorcycle Touring Bliss On A Budget!!"

[snyper316]

Could be,, could also be as insignificant as grub needing to be cleaned out of the regulator terminal or the stator terminal or even a dirty battery connection...

 

 

 

!! By the way Fool,,, did I tell you about my newest book to hit the book stands this Fall?? It's titled - "Short Shifting - A Guide To Motorcycle Touring Bliss On A Budget!!"

Sign me up for one O and guys check this out. No fresh oil no more [emoji18]

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

[cowpuc]

Ok I know this question has been answered now, with pictures, Prairiehammer did you go tear a bike apart to post them photos. Also looks like you gots a good oil leak there Prairie..

 

 

 

by the way Snype = AWESOME VIDEO!!!(and so does Tinker IMHO!!)

THANKS FOR POSTING IT UP!!!

[gaj1917]

Snyper, 2nd gear started to disappear on my '84 a few years ago at around 80,000 km (50,000 miles). As pointed out previously, it happens gradually. I drove for another 5,000+ km, nursing 2nd gear, and experimenting with skipping it altogether. I decided to do the repair over the winter months. Not a small undertaking, but educational. And, it's a great opportunity to have a look at a whole bunch of other stuff that might need fixin' when that engine and other parts are out on a table. Here's a link that details my experiences, for what they're worth. Couldn't have done it without info I found here on the forum.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?120493-Second-gear-repair-redux&highlight=redux

[snyper316]

I kind of worded that all wrong about the second gear issue I didn't mean it goes out completely at one time I was just hoping and praying maybe that steak or punch marks meant something.

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

[snyper316]

Hey @cowpuc to answer your question in regards to voltage drop when its good and warm my voltage runs about 13.6 - 13.8. When I first started in the morning my voltage starts at 12.6 when I start the bike it runs 14.6 and a little above sometimes but at idle it runs 13.5 to 13.8. No I have another question for you puc being as you do a bunch of cruise around the countryside and put on a bunch of miles how often do you change your spark plugs?

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.