Harley moving some production to Europe

[XV1100SE]

Try not to make this political...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/business/harley-davidson-us-eu-tariffs.html

 

Just the facts as reported by the New York Times

 

If that link doesn't work anymore....try https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/harley-davidson-tariff-1.4720531

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/25/news/companies/harley-davidson-motorcycles-tariffs-trump/index.html

Edited June 26, 2018 by XV1100SE

[RandyR]

The article says "Out of US" not "to Europe".

 

Actually, Harley has -already- ramped up production in India for the non-US market.

[SpencerPJ]

Try not to make this political...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/business/harley-davidson-us-eu-tariffs.html

 

Just the facts as reported by the New York Times

 

You made it political implying that the New York Times publishes facts,

 

 

I think it's a terrible move on their part, But But, if Harley is not about 'Made in the USA' any longer, who will buy them? Sorry, just not a Harley fan.

[s.tyler58]

You made it political implying that the New York Times publishes facts,

 

 

I think it's a terrible move on their part, But But, if Harley is not about 'Made in the USA' any longer, who will buy them? Sorry, just not a Harley fan.

Count me in the non-fan column!

 

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[DanielM]

You made it political implying that the New York Times publishes facts,

 

 

I think it's a terrible move on their part, But But, if Harley is not about 'Made in the USA' any longer, who will buy them? Sorry, just not a Harley fan.

According to harley, they estimate an average $2,200 increase in final cost for bikes they sell in the EU which it makes it even more difficult for them compete.

 

They are already struggling and looking for ways to reduce costs. This might be a tipping point for them, and also could provide some public relations cover for a move they might very have been planning to make anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

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[MiCarl]

According to harley, they estimate an average $2,200 increase in final cost for bikes they sell in the EU which it makes it even more difficult for them compete.

 

They are already struggling and looking for ways to reduce costs. This might be a tipping point for them, and also could provide some public relations cover for a move they might very have been planning to make anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

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That's an excellent point. When I first saw the article I thought "Wow, that was fast". On the other hand if all they needed to do was the press release.........

[BlueSky]

From what I heard on tv, they are moving the manufacturing to Brazil and Thailand I think, not the EU.

[DanielM]

From what I heard on tv, they are moving the manufacturing to Brazil and Thailand I think, not the EU.

Yep, where it is cheaper to manufacture and no trade war tariffs.

 

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[djh3]

Wouldnt be the first time they manufactured parts off shore. Anyone remember the AMF days?

[XV1100SE]

For years the Japanese (Honda, Toyota) have built factories where they sell their vehicles. The Toyota plant I work at in Cambridge/Woodstock Ontario makes about 600,000 vehicles per year. We press our own steel, have plastics shops in each plant, paint shops... majority of the parts are sourced "locally" in Canada and the U.S. Last year we were the 2nd highest producer of Toyota vehicles globally and 1st two years ago. There are plants in Texas, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi. Our plant has over 8,000 team members, with thousands of team members at the plants in the U.S.. Add to that the number of people employed at suppliers...

 

If Harley sells bikes in Europe in enough volume to build a factory there, so be it. Support the economy of where they sell bikes. This is a concept the auto manufacturers have done for decades.

 

True companies have moved production to where labour is cheap to be competitive and profitable. How else do they pay their CEO's millions of dollars? I don't blame the companies for being capitalists. But I do miss seeing "Made in Canada or USA" on products. Even souvenirs are made in China and other places. That doesn't feel right though. Canadian maple syrup bottled in China and sold as a Canadian souvenir? Say it aint so !

[Sailor]

According to news reports Harley expects the tariffs to add $100,000,000.00/year to their costs and that is why they are moving out of the US. They are also closing their factory in Kansas. Mid Continent Nail laid off 60 workers and expects to be out of business by labour day with all 500 workers laid off. Tariffs on steel from Mexico has driven up their prices to where they have lost 70% of their business. The tax Foundation predicts job losses of 48,585 (I don't know how they can be so exact) and up to 250,000 if tariffs are increased on China. On the other hand 4,700 jobs have been re started in industries.

[BlueSky]

And at the same time a UK company is restarting a steel plant in SC that will employ hundreds of workers.

[DanielM]

I can't think of any way to continue this conversation without politics.

 

 

 

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[BratmanXj]

But I do miss seeing "Made in Canada or USA" on products. Even souvenirs are made in China and other places. That doesn't feel right though. Canadian maple syrup bottled in China and sold as a Canadian souvenir? Say it aint so !

 

Irony...Ordered a Southern Ontario Motorcycle Visitors Guide a few years back from the bureau of tourism and it came with a Canada logo'd kick-stand pad with Made In the USA stamped on the back.

[CaseyJ955]

Wherever they do begin assembly of bikes I can just about guarantee a great many of the parts are going to come right out of China, more than now. Tariffs are a probably small factor but we have seen this empire beginning to crumble for a number of years now. I suppose tariffs are a convenient scapegoat. Rather than political, IMHO, this is simply free enterprise at work.

[DanielM]

Wherever they do begin assembly of bikes I can just about guarantee a great many of the parts are going to come right out of China, more than now. Tariffs are a probably small factor but we have seen this empire beginning to crumble for a number of years now. I suppose tariffs are a convenient scapegoat. Rather than political, IMHO, this is simply free enterprise at work.

I argue that an average customer increase of $2,200 per bike is one of the variables in Harley's calculus deciding how much production to move which production to move and where to move it to. Where it gets muddy is that it's just one factor in an already struggling companies calculus.

 

But to say that a $2,200 average increase has no impact just doesn't make any sense.

 

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[BlueSky]

Just saw something in the news that Harley had planned to manufacture in Thailand several months ago. So, like someone said, this is just a cover for them.

[RandyR]

Harley-Davidson manufactures its motorcycles at factories in York, Pennsylvania; Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Kansas City, Missouri (closing); Manaus, Brazil; and Bawal, India. Construction of a new plant in Thailand is scheduled to begin in late 2018[5]

 

taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson

[DanielM]

Just saw something in the news that Harley had planned to manufacture in Thailand several months ago. So, like someone said, this is just a cover for them.

Do you think that increase has no impact to Harley's decision making process or their ability to make a profit?

 

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[Kretz]

Unlikely that HD will build a plant in the EU. Way too much red tape, Gov't interference, safety rules & regulations (when compared to other locations) Much simpler to build elsewhere without those restrictions & simply import to the EU.

BUT a LOT of the success & kudos given to HD bikes is due to their marketing arm & the "Made in America" pedigree & image. If that is taken away or reduced will they still be as successful & still have the same appeal? HD have for a long time been trading "old technology" on their made in the USA image, lose that image & they risk becoming "just another imported motorcycle".

I have heard (but don't know how true it is) that many HD bikes have been for some time merely assembled in America, with parts being shipped from all over the world.

[cowpuc]

Wherever they do begin assembly of bikes I can just about guarantee a great many of the parts are going to come right out of China, more than now. Tariffs are a probably small factor but we have seen this empire beginning to crumble for a number of years now. I suppose tariffs are a convenient scapegoat. Rather than political, IMHO, this is simply free enterprise at work.

 

:sign yeah that:

 

I know I'm a simpleton but I still think the ultimate answer to a lot of the struggles associated with trying to get the free enterprise system to work when the vast majority of the players have never really accepted that particular system of economics in its entirety is as easy as all parties just dropping tariff's across the board = all tariff's are now ended and illegal FOR EVERYONE, both ways, wanting to participate in trade with the "free world" is what I am trying to say. IMHO, along with this should be (and would be if I were negotiating this "new" trade world stuff) all U.S. subsidies in trade agreements would end, no more subsidies, the free world needs to deal from a level playing field for everyone involved with transparency and fairness being the new paradigms for world trade.

 

As far as HD moving operations off shore,,, if they do so with the intent of selling the bikes produced off shore back in the States (they have been producing off shore for sales off shore for a while now), IMHO,, that would be an act of cashing in their chips and,, again,, IMHO - even the notion of such definitely wreaks of a scapegoat cookin - they (HD) are smarter than that... I think there is more to the whole story in a "Political" way...

 

[Patch]

Of coarse I remember AMF! I still keep my long hair in the night table! All that flew freely in the wind of those days!

 

Unlike AMF which was the result of a sale purchase/merger; its now just a simple sellout.

 

Harley is counting beans instead of keeping there ears to their customer base. Harley's have American muscle appeal, so really hard to understand how they plan to reassure their North American base they are riding - American steel?

 

Don could you get me a job in the paint plant? Unless of course they make you breath fresh filtered air; in which case forget it;)

[snyper316]

I have got to ask, Are you all Reffering to AMF Playmaster? That place went to Mexico or something. Used to work there it sucked when they closed its the only plant that was in Bland Mo..

[XV1100SE]

Don could you get me a job in the paint plant? Unless of course they make you breath fresh filtered air; in which case forget it;)

 

Toyota is always hiring, expanding. Submit an online application and if you get thru you can put me down as a reference.

 

I have got to ask, Are you all Reffering to AMF Playmaster? That place went to Mexico or something. Used to work there it sucked when they closed its the only plant that was in Bland Mo..

 

My brother still has a '74 AMF Sportster. AMF years for Harley were poor quality. He had an issue where if the bike didn't start on the first kick (no electric start on his) you were done. They had issues with bad flywheels. Once he replaced that the bike starts and runs nicely.

[XV1100SE]

...BUT a LOT of the success & kudos given to HD bikes is due to their marketing arm & the "Made in America" pedigree & image. If that is taken away or reduced will they still be as successful & still have the same appeal? HD have for a long time been trading "old technology" on their made in the USA image, lose that image & they risk becoming "just another imported motorcycle".

I have heard (but don't know how true it is) that many HD bikes have been for some time merely assembled in America, with parts being shipped from all over the world.

 

With any manufacturer, they get parts where ever they can that is economically the best deal. There are always components that are locally manufactured (or assembled from global parts). "Made in America" is confusing when you think of companies like GM and Ford. Is it still an American product if it is assembled in Mexico? Or Honda and Toyota - source 65%+ parts in North America (as per NAFTA) - are they Japanese cars or North American? Lot of gray areas.

 

Whether Harley is assembled in the U.S.A. or India...it is still a Harley. Most people want the brand name and image rather than looking into what percentage of parts are sourced in the U.S.A.. Same with Japanese cars. Ask someone where their Corolla was built and few would know that North American Corolla's come from Cambridge Ontario. They just see it as a Japanese car.